GameCube ISOs Released?

Mister.de writes "An online piracy group called "StarCube" has made ISO's of games like The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker available for download on the net. They are not publicly available to everyone, but are said to be hosted on private warez FTP sites. As of yet (6/14/2003) there is no way to actually play the games after burning to a mini-disc, but reliable sources say that there will be a hack for the GameCube released soon so that these illegal copies can be played. Also rumors do have it that the copied games can be played on the Panasonic GameCube, but that is unconfirmed. " The story came from Console-Gods originally.

Hard to do

[Bagels]

Getting an ISO wouldn't be impossible - the real problem is that you have to rig your 'Cube to read it, as GCN discs spin *backwards*. To play a burned disc, you'd have to either heavily modify your computer or your 'Cube, and in the end it would be cheaper to just buy the game rather than pirate it.

Remember

[shaklee]

The same thing happened to xbox, the games were ripped for a while and then finally the modchips were made. Look where the xbox is now.

Seems real

[ymgve]

It has to be, since nForce has its own category for them now [nforce.nl].

Re:Hard to do

[Mr_Silver]

Getting an ISO wouldn't be impossible - the real problem is that you have to rig your 'Cube to read it, as GCN discs spin *backwards*.

Not quite. Rather than writing data to the discs normally from the inside to the outside of the disc, Nintendo does it vice-versa and write the data to the disks from the outside in. Therefore the data is written to (and read from) the disk backwards. But the disk itself spins the normal way around.

To play a burned disc, you'd have to either heavily modify your computer or your 'Cube, and in the end it would be cheaper to just buy the game rather than pirate it.

I'm no expert on chipping, but I would assume that you'd just need to chip your GC and then write the games ISO out differently than you would normally (specialised software?). But even if this thing cost £200, you'd still be saving money after your 5th game.

Blanks?

[Bowdie]

www.hobbymagic.com [hobbymagic.com]

3" Mini DVD-R, 1.5GB/25min
Write-once format DVD, For Data / Audio / Video use, Full compatibility with all writers and players w/ 650nm laser, High capacity and data transfer rate, portable and easy to transport, Long-term data archiving, compatible with Nintendo Game Cube, Playstation 2, Xbox. Price start from $8.00/pc.

Re:Hard to do

[womprat]

I'm pretty sure they don't spin backwards. I even went and popped open the lid while the system was reading. I'm not sure why this rumor keeps popping up though. I've heard it so many times.

Whatever protection they have on there is damn good since (barring this story) I haven't heard of anyone successfully reading a disc.

Re:Where are the links???

[Chris_Jefferson]

Not going to tell you where to get these ISOs, other than they are floating around the usual warez spots, particularily on IRC.

However you can see what has been ripped so far at:

http://www.nforce.nl/nfos/index.php?do=1&s=20

Sales show GC games sell more than on any system.

[Viewsonic]

For games that are released on all three systems, sales figures have been showing that most of the sales are on the GameCube platform. It's hard to believe the PS2 with nearly 3 times the user base is selling LESS than the Cube, but it's true. Of course, this is false for sports games, as Cube owners tend to dislike sports for some reason. Take a look at some of the last years sales figures from Sega, Capcom, etc ..

Re:Remember

[Oakey]

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but PC's won't read X-Box games. I thought the only way to rip X-Box games was with a mod-chip, and then ftp into yout X-Box and copy the files over?

Re:Hard to do

[abiogenesis]

Dreamcast drives are CAV (Constant Angular Velocity) and have a hard time reading the inner tracks. That's why when you backup a game, you should use specialized software like DiscJuggler that can calculate where to start writing so that the data ends at the outer edge of the CD. I believe it then fills the inner tracks with dummy bytes.

Re:Blanks?

[jbfaninmo]

The Gamecube media isn't mini-DVD, its a format known as GameCube Optical Disc(GOD :) ) and was developed by the hard to spell parent company of Panasonic..

To play pirated games you'd have to find some way get the GameCube read an alien format, and spin the disc the otherway. The Gamecube normally spins its disc backwards.

I think it would just be easier to buy the game...

Misconceptions

[jerkface]

There are, and always have been, a massive amount of misconceptions on this topic, so I'll try to cover most of them in one post.

1. Gamecube discs spin clockwise, just like almost every other drive. Try opening the lid while a game is being read so you can see for yourself.
2. The small (8cm) physical size of the Gamecube discs has nothing to do with copy protection; Nintendo just liked small discs. 8cm discs are not new, and writable discs of this size are not hard to acquire. 8cm DVD-RAM discs are popular for digital recording applications, although that may be 100% irrelevant if the GCN's laser doesn't read that type of medium in the first place...
3. The copying of Gamecube disc images is NOT done by just popping the disc in a computer's drive and reading it. If this is even feasible or practical, it is NOT how dumping is being done right now. Dumping is being done by tricking the only networked Gamecube game (PSO) into reading the disc's contents and sending it out over the network.
4. This still leaves MANY mysteries as to the precise format of the disc:
   1. So far as I know, it's still not confirmed whether the tracks spiral differently on Gamecube discs
   2. It's not known how well the dumps reflect what's really on the disc at the low level - when the system reads the disc, it might be decrypting, as well, or ignoring other information that the BIOS will strictly require to ensure the disc is legit. IOW, perhaps the dumps are hopelessly different from the format a GCN disc needs to be in
5. One of the important (and well-known) copyright mechanisms is a barcode-like section of the far innermost track of GCN discs (look closely at a game and you can see it - no, not that one, further to the inside). It is probably just not possible to replicate this on any writable DVD format.

And just to reinforce the point, since many people won't understand it - this DUMPING does NOT allow anyone to play pirated games. It is not even clear what steps are necessary to get to that point. It's rather impressive, really - the PSX, Dreamcast, PS2, and Xbox were all cracked by the time they'd been out this long, yet the Gamecube remains a mystery. A good thing, IMO.

Re:Hard to do

[Echnin]

Yep. They do NOT spin backwards. That's an idiotic claim. Anyone can pop the GC up while playing and see that it spins clockwise, just like regular CDs. Takes 5 seconds to find that out.

Re:Hard to do

[Spokehedz]

I'm almost 99% sure that the discs don't spin backwards, but Iâ(TM)d have to have a friend of mine bring his GC over so that I could test it. The reason Iâ(TM)m _guessing_ it doesnâ(TM)t spin backwards, is because of the plain and simple fact that console hardware developers don't like to get into _really_ proprietary stuff because of the high-cost of the Devkit that would be required by the hardware. And the more the developer has to pay for the Devkit, the less likely they are to get it if they are a smaller company who can't afford the multi-million dollar expenses... which translates into less games. And we all know how less games--that very well may be high quality games--turns out... All I gotta say is Playstation, and you know what Iâ(TM)m talking about.

What they _probably_ did was take some 'special' 8cm DVD disks (look here [dvd-and-media.com] for more info and a picture of one in a case--how hard would it be to get it out of there if your the "Big N"?) and encode it in such a way that only a specially modified firmware would read the discs.

Just like the dreamcast (which did use some special hardware... and the price of the Devkit was high... No games (in USA)... pattern?) did. Its all a matter of TRICKING the GC into thinking whatever disc you put in there was supposed to be there, and then either making it read the discs as normal, or formatting your discs to use the same layout as the real discs.

And anyone with a oscilloscope (and a fair bit of skill with it) can see what lines are being pulled high/low to see what the disc is reading at a given time. How do you think these 'mod chips' actually work? All they do is feed the processor/DSP a code of 'This disc is ok--just play the game' and then the processor does what itâ(TM)s been designed to do.

Its like cracking a videogame on the computer--all we do is make the 'Disc bad/not present--no play' instruction jump to the 'Disc present--play' instead. Its so elegantly simple, and its mind-boggling how stupid game developers think that anything they make will never be cracked, just because they have some 'proprietary' disc/code/hardware.

Let me make this as clear as possible to game hardware developers out there:

So long as your processor supports the jump assembly command, or your hardware uses standard CMOS/TTL voltages/IC's, your program/game can be hacked. I said 'can', because its all a matter of who wants to put the effort into it and not just the plain and simple fact that they can do it. Ok... maybe thereâ(TM)s a little of that in there too. ;)

Yes, I am a Pedant.

[EnglishTim]

Firstly: ISO stands for the 'International Organsiation of Standardization'. Some people seem to have co-opted the term to mean an image of an ISO 9660 CD. However, the gamecube has its own propietary format which is on no way an international standard, therefore the term 'ISO' cannot possibly apply.

Secondly: An apostrophe is not required when referring to the plural of an object.

Have a nice day.

Tim

Re:Hard to do

[Computer!]

Why is it that people don't consider pirating stealing?

Because it's not. It's copyright infingement. It's still a crime, but it's not stealing. Theft deprives the original owner of the property use of said property.

Re:Blanks?

[operagost]

-The parent company of Panasonic is "Matsushita".
-The drives don't spin backwards. They may read from the outside in, however.

Re:emulator?

[Peale]

I love how this was modded up as 'informative.' Did anyone actually check out this site before doing a mod? It should have been modded as 'funny,' as this site is a spoof. Check out the other link on the site:

http://benjamin.francois.free.fr/artwork/gcubix/mo rons.html [francois.free.fr]

Re:Done before on Dreamcast

[edwdig]

The rumor I've heard is as follows:

1. Get a GameBoy Player and a GBA Flash Rom cartridge
2. Load a special ROM onto the GBA cart
3. Run it on the GBA Player like a normal GBA game
4. The GBA cart will transfer data to GC's main memory
5. Press the reset button on the GC - this is a soft reset, it simply jumps to a fixed memory address, without reading off the disc at all
6. Game data can then be transferred thru the serial port on the bottom of the GC

The question is, is step #4 possible? The rest of the story is definately possible (if you don't believe step 5, put in Animal Crossing, wait til the title screen comes up, take out the disc, and press reset. You can still play, without any need to put the disc in again.)

Re:Done before on Dreamcast

[binarytoaster]

(if you don't believe step 5, put in Animal Crossing, wait til the title screen comes up, take out the disc, and press reset. You can still play, without any need to put the disc in again.)
I've had the same game booted on several GCs before with that little trick. It comes from being an N64 game originally, so it's small enough to be entirely loaded in the GC's memory.

Which also explains why the graphics look a bit like canned ass.. Great game, though.

Re:emulator?

[Echnin]

Eh... There are [url=http://www.zophar.net/n64.html]plenty[/url] of N64 emulators that work fine. Just a PSA. UltraHLE 2064, Project 64 and Nemu are the best ones. There are also a couple of open-source emulators out there.

Playstation and Nintendo 64 emulation is VERY easy. I managed to run Mario Kart 64 well enough to be playable on a machine with a Pentium 166, 32 MB of RAM and a Voodoo Banshee with UltraHLE in early '99...

Re:emulator?

[coandco]

There is no real N64 emulator (only high-level ones which don't really work on most games).

Umm... excuse me?

There is a very good open-source emulator that can play pretty much every game out there. There are a couple of exceptions, of course, but certainly a large majority of the games out there can be played. Project 64 [pj64.net].

Clint

N64 Emulator

[ProfessionalCookie]

Actually there are several N64 emulators...Sixty Force [sixtyforce.com] is one of the oldes and the best, to quote emulation.net [emulation.net] "it has sound support, and the speeds are excellent on a fast G3 or G4. Most importantly, many games seem to work perfectly." Others include True Reality [ninja.dk] and Mupen 64 [emulation64.com] both of which have Linux Windows and Mac ports.

For More News..

[windsok]

keep an eye on www.cubehacker.com as well as, #gamecube #cubehacker on EFnet.

Re:Hard to do

[Doomstalk]

I have no actual proof to back this up, so it's heresay, but interesting nonetheless. I've read from a number of sources that the disc doesn't spin backwards, but is structured in a backwards fashion, with the lead-out on the inside of the disc, and the lead-in on the outside. Additionally (this part is confirmed by myself and others), the information identifying it as a legitimate disc is a barcode around the center of the disc just past the data area, making it extremely hard to fool the system without a hardware mod, since the barcode is nigh on impossible to duplicate at home (unless you live in a professional mastering plant). Both of these phenomena can be observed if you hold in the switch that tells the Cube the drive is open, it goes to the inside of the disc beyond the data region to the barcode, then travels to the outside of the disc before it starts loading. Confirming that the barcode is necessary to load the game is quite simple: take a small piece of tape, or use a dry erase marker, and cover it up. The Gamecube laser will travel to the inside of the disc and then refuse to load. Finally, the Gamecube will not read CDs. If you try obstructing the barcode like I mentioned earlier, the Gamecube will still spin up the disc and attempt to read it. However, if you put a CD in, it will stop spinning immediately. The implications of this in relation to Gamecube piracy are these: First of all, unmodified Gamecubes will have no way of reading copied discs, as it's not a simple matter of disc structuring like the Dreamcast. Secondly, I'm not sure how easy it will be to get a DVD burner to write a disc in such a fashion, as they're geared towards making standards compliant DVDs. Finally, even the smallest games will have to be burned to DVD, meaning the vast majority of would-be pirates will be left out in the cold, as they're too cheap to buy DVD burners.

Re:Yes, I am a Pedant.

[praxim]

Actually, ISO doesn't stand for anything. It's from the Greek for "equal," chosen over a real acronym because the acronym would be different in different languages.

I think you've been out-pedanted. ;-)

Re:Hard to do

[Abcd1234]

Why is this so hard to understand?

Because it's not strictly true. Okay, suppose I choose to pirate some game that I most definitely would have purchased otherwise. In this case it can be argued that, yes, I've chosen to withhold value that the company would otherwise have (OTOH, I am not depriving them of something they already had, but let's forget that for the moment). Now, let's say I pirate some game that I wouldn't have purchased otherwise (due to, for example, the risk of laying down dollars for a game I'm not sure I'd like). In this case, am I "stealing" (to use your definition)? Since I wouldn't have purchased the game anyway, I'm not depriving the company of anything, right? So is this theft?

You see, calling copyright infringement "stealing" is just not accurate. Theft refers to the taking of something from someone else and depriving them of that item. Copyright infringement just doesn't work this way. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, they're both fruit (illegal), but they really are fundamentally different things.

Re:Hard to do

[captainstupid]

I have not confirmed this myself, but supposedly it's not that the discs spin backwards,
it's that the laser starts reading the disc from the outside and works its way towards the center.

This is different (of course) from the normal, start reading at the center of the disc and work your way out.

If this is the case, it seems like a incredibly simple yet effective method of copy protection.

Re:Done before on Dreamcast

[DrStrangeLoop]

The much more serious problem is getting a disc of reasonable size that a gamecube can read to burn the games onto.

there was a solution for loading cress-compiled binaries over ethernet on the dreamcast... i see no reason why this should not be possible with the GCs "broadband adapter" [sic], in theory at least...

--strangeloop

Emulation!!

[D4rkSt4lker]

Great, now we can get the ISOs. Time for the emulator!! I *know* Nintento releases a GamecubeOS emulator with its development kit, maybe someone would be kind enough to leak it! 8)

Experiment to verify CDs burned from inside out

[yerricde]

Start your CD digital audio recording software and set it to "track at once".

Place a blank CDDA-R disc in your recorder. Record three audio tracks. Remove the CD from the recorder and look at the underside of the disc. Notice a boundary between two differently colored washer-shaped regions of the disc's data area.

Place the disc in your recorder again. Record three more audio tracks. Look again at the disc's underside. Notice that the darker color has expanded into the area that was once lighter colored.

Record three more tracks. By now you should notice a pattern: adding new tracks to a disc expands the dark area outward. Therefore, guess that the darker area is the recorded area, and that the disc is recorded from inside to outside.

Compact Disc and DVD media are mastered in a spiral track that runs from inside to outside when the disc is spun counter-clockwise (viewed from the data side) or clockwise (viewed from the label side). The second layer of a dual-layer disc runs from outside to inside. It appears that Xbox and GameCube disc formats may place their boot sectors on the second layer, which means that the discs are read from outside in. Uncareful reporters may confuse this with a disc that spins backwards; no popular open-disc optical medium does this.

Almost, but not quite right...

[LordZardoz]

Nintendo did not choose the cartridge to only prevent piracy. They did it because doing so generated more profits per game sold. Nintendo owned the patents on their cartridge's. The real reasoning was probably along these lines.

1) More profits per game
2) More difficult to Pirate
3) No loading times.

The reason that the publishers did not support the N64 is that producing a playstation game (Or saturn game for that matter) was cheaper. A cd is cheaper to manufacture then a cartridge.

Nintendo's use of the miniature disks also has less to do with piracy and more to do with manufacturing costs. First, since they dont play DVD's, they do not have to pay any fee's to use that technology. The cost per console is cheaper as a result. Nintendo figured that people who want to watch DVD's are going to buy a DVD player.

Assuming that the choice of avoiding or reducing piracy will win out over econimics for any console developer is just stupid. Its an important secondary concern, but not the primary concern. At least not right now, and certantly not 7 years ago.

END COMMUNICATION