MMORPGs - Ruined By Non Role-Players? 100
Thanks to RPGDot for their new editorial discussing why actual in-character roleplaying in MMORPGs is dying out, as more and more 'action fans' are being attracted to RPGs. The article suggests: "When you take an MMORPG apart to analyze what it is, you discover pretty quickly that it's mostly a huge graphical chat room... the role-playing aspect of an MMORPG is nowhere in the [priority] list, which leaves the few poor souls who are willing to do so in the dust, grinding their teeth at the l337 speech they are subjected to." But it seems in-game bugs and glitches make it difficult for even the most hardcore role-player to keep in-character: "It's hard to sustain a willingness to role-play when the mindless android in front of you swallows your shuttle ticket without so much as an apology."
Not a new problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
The Best solution would be if quests required some degree of roleplaying (thus actually making it a roleplaying game), instead of just having to kill something, find something, or deliver something.
Problem? No Game Master (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with Role Playing in a computer game is that you are artificially limited by the constraints of the game. If the programmers have decided that you have to get past (kill) target A to get object B, then you have to kill target A to get Object B. In a "true" RPG (DnD, or whatever "flavor" you prefer), there is a DM who may *want* (or goad) you into fighting target A, but in the end, you could at least attempt to bluff your way past it or sneak around or whatever. Also, in a PnP RPG you can interact with your environment in ways that a MMORPG cannot currently let you. For instance, I've never quite been able to walk through tables or other party members in DnD, yet in SWG you have a rather incorporealness that, well, breaks immersion. Also, the NPCs can be only so engaging. If I told an NPC to "blow off" in a PnP game, he'd "hear" me, and react accordingly, whereas unless its a specific encounter, if I type "blow off" to a random NPC he'll simply ignore me.
So it all comes down to the Game Master. Without the human interaction, its very difficult to stay in character, IMHO. Of course, one day that might not be the case, and there isnt anything wrong with MMORPGs, other than they are in fact glorified chat rooms most of the time.
Re:Not a new problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
The author forgot to mention RO (Ragnarok Online): the perfect example everything he complains about. (http://www.ragnarokonline.com)
A Korean beta game that offers no story, no actual quests. Just dungeons for people to go to and kill, find items, and kill in new dungeons. I cannot stress how little story and quests (aside from "search for three of these different rare items to recieve an even more rare item" quests) there are. It makes Diablo 2 look like a classic book in comparison.
In fact, people are paying to play this game now, it's no longer a free beta. Definitely a bad direction for mmorpg's to go.
Re:Quality of Games (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing with MMORPGs are that they are in a perpetual state of being broken, right from the get-go. Launches are inherently troublesome times with client bugs and play balance issues. Only over time do these things become lessened. They're still doing fixes to Dark Age of Camelot after what, two years of being in operation? They're primarily fixes to balance issues, the odd glitch, no real show-stoppers.
Once you come to terms with that you'll have a pretty fun time with MMORPGs as a whole. I guarantee you though that WoW will suffer the same problems at launch that they all do. Busted registration/logon servers, lag, goofy gameplay balance, etc, etc, etc. It's the nature of the beast, and don't let the Blizzard name fool you. It's their FIRST MMORPG, and it will be at least one thing to them -- a learning experience unlike any they've had before.
Roleplaying Requires Imagination (Score:3, Insightful)
My 2 cents
Re:We don't serve their kind here! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What's really ruining MMORPGs: (Score:3, Insightful)
The role-players should realize that without all of the '1337' action-gamers, the producers of the game would not see it as a profitable endeavor.
um.. role playing? (Score:3, Insightful)
If its your own character, then its your own role and you can't escape it or betray it. That, to me, is the beauty of online role playing games. The universe you're in becomes much more than what you've already seen.
To me, those that complain are the ones that are really, really hardcore, those that demand that you talk in your characters native tongue, and not English, for example. Yes you exist, yes I respect your opinion, but there's a bell curve here, and you're on the edge, and that means you ain't ever gonna get your way, so long as the curve stays where it is. The converse of this in in your guys' favor though, because the people that don't even play according to the universe are few and far between also. What lies in between (the middle of the curve) is what exists in Online RPG's.
RPGs are however they are because the majority of people play the game in that way. That means that the majority of the people playing are happy with it that way. You've been outvoted. Take it or leave it.
The artificial constraints prevent interaction (Score:2, Insightful)
The richness of a given social experience is directly proportional to it's significance, and the amount of options you have. If you have the option of acting maliciously if you so choose, then a positive interaction is more meaningful. In addition, a reputation or something that imparts a consequence to your choices is necessary so that you have realistic modes of interaction.
In "real life" social settings, there is no way to predict how a person will react. There is plenty of conflict - if a boss or co-worker takes a dislike to you personally, and attempts to ruin your career, they are allowed to act maliciously against you. In MMORPGs, because of the problem of persistence (I can buy a new account or make a new char, and my reputation is gone) the actions themselves lose value. This causes it to be far too easy to perform the negative actions out of dislike, and combined with the polarizing nature of the Internet.. we've all seen the flame wars via e-mail or bulletin board, you end up with people who only interact negatively, ie "Griefers."
As long as people are forced to interact with kiddie gloves such as no attacking, no stealing, no kill stealing, no harassment, no aiding monsters you are fighting, no disrupting a wedding, then you remove a lot of the conflict and interaction between players. When you remove the conflict, things get boring.
In addition, the worlds themselves are very static and unmalleable. Is it really easy to roleplay killing the 50th spawn at a given camp? What exactly are you doing there? Why are you killing these bandits? Why don't they go away? It's a really forced world architecture, meant to be condusive to one thing: Killing and powergaming, not roleplaying. Are there other ways to do it? Sure. Have any current MMORPGs gotten there? Nope.
I can't imagine anyone rolepaying in an environment as antiseptic and conflict free as one of an MMORPG. To blame the playerbase for repeatedly acting in the same way with the same environment and constraints is to ignore history and then complain when it happens to you as well. The choices that are required for meaningful interaction are tricky ones, because they require treating people like adults and policing the player base. These are two things that most MMORPGs seem unable or unwilling to do currently, so I suspect it will be some time before you see a rich roleplaying environment in an online game. But to blame the players for only interacting with the game in one way (powergaming) when that's really all the options that are given to them, is to assign the blame to the wrong party.
Re:Quality of Games (Score:4, Insightful)
You may be right, but I'm not so sure. Blizzard has a pretty good reputation about delaying a game until it is truly ready to ship. I mean, Warcraft3 took years to make, they cancelled that Warcraft Adventures game because it simply wasn't going as well as they wanted (but come on, they coulda released a dried up turd with the name "Warcraft adventures" on it and sold a million copies - see Enter The Matrix).
So Blizzard may finally get it right. They're not Eidos. Blizzrad could have released a new Warcraft every year since 1998 (like Eidos has done with Tomb Raider), but they like to wait until a product is ready...
Joke right? (Score:3, Insightful)
Who cares how buggy it is, it has to be a step-up from rolling a dice to see how much damage you do (yeah like that is real...).
In fact having fewer uber-geeks who have memorised the rule book, and look at me funny when I order quiche from the tavern vastly improves my gaming experience.
Re:um.. role playing? (Score:3, Insightful)
The reason for this has been touched upon by earlier posters: Enforcing true Role Playing is not conducive to Making Big Buck$.
For purposes of this discussion, "Role Playing" is defined as communicating in-game as one's character would, not using 1337-speak, and leaving one's Real Life self and Real Life concerns "at the door". Looking for help with a quest one just recieved would be considered RP. Discussing Yankees' scores or the new website you created for your guild/clan/PA is not.
The only way to improve RP is to hire in-game GMs or NPCs or both to reward those players that play their roles and punish those who do not. The money you have to pay these GMs and NPCs cuts into your profits, and the players you punish for not playing their roles will get frustrated and leave, creating a ton of bad buzz about your RPG. What few true roleplayers you have will be thrilled at the prospect of the One True RPG, fiercely loyal to it and its creators, and very depressed when the MMORPG goes out of business in less than a year.
Slightly off topic, but bear with me: Did you ever see the Cartmanland episode of South Park? Cartman buys an amusement park for his sole use, denying everybody else entry. But then a ride breaks down, so he has to pay a maintenance man. To offset his salary, he lets two people in. Then he has to hire a ticket seller. Two more people let in. Ride operators, concession sellers, etc etc. By the end of the episode, it's just another amusement park.
I'm all for a Heavy-RP-only MMORPG - it'd get the purists off my back for not speaking in thees and thous. But their RP utopia would almost have to cave to market pressures or be exorbitantly priced in order to stay afloat.
Playing to Win (Score:2, Insightful)
The problem with modern online role-playing games is that the vast majority of players are simply playing to win. "Win" is defined, in their opinions, as increasing experience, beating quests using any means necessary, and aquiring gobs of "phat l3wt".
Why? Because the game engine is spewing tons of this kind of information at them: stat points, hitpoints, experience, weapons which do Xd6 damage and have Y enchantments, etc... Numbers, numbers, and more numbers - none of which have anything to do with true role-playing. If nobody had told you that you were supposed to "role-play" in one of these games, how would you even know to do that? The game doesn't tell you. And it certainly doesn't encourage that kind of behavior.
If the social aspects of a game aren't directly included as part of the gameplay itself then the vast majority of players will ignore it. If the developers spend 95% of their time coding game math and 5% on features that encourage social interaction, you shouldn't be surprised when 95% of the players don't role-play their characters.
Re:um.. role playing? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's about the trying to figure out why the 26 year old guy I'm playing with still thinks that naming his avatar "BoogerSnorter Maximus" is even remotely funny.
It's the lack of imagination implied in the avatars in SWG named Duke SkyClocker and Obie's Frend (both real examples).
It's the player who shouts "Wazzup?!!?!!!?? DUDEZ!?!?!!?" for the 40th time to his friends in half an hour, and they all think it is hysterically funny, and I might have, too, when I was twelve, except that, from reading through the poor spelling and bad grammar that has assaulted you continuously, you know that these gentlemen have children who are at least thirteen.
I know, these complaints make me uptight and anal and a killjoy, and I should get a life.
Maybe.
But I'd rather wait for the day that I can have my avatar kick your avatars ass.
Well... (Score:2, Insightful)
I really do enjoy people who Role Play, ya know, assume a role and stick with it. This does not mean the l337 h4x0r posing as a level 5 mage. I want the game to keep the concept of role playing. However, not everyone sits behind their computer with a Jolt Cola in one hand and a direct copy of Sting in the other (the guy even told me it changes color when orcs are around, but I haven't had the chance to try that feature out yet) like I do.
But this poses a problem. There are not many of our kind out there (which is probably for the best), but those of us who are out there are prone to just a tensy wensy bit of elitism. We become less tolerant of people in the community who are not as extreme as we are. We want a different game than they do, but when we subscribe to an MMORPG, we are subscribing to a Mass Multiplayer Online Community. Let me say that again, Mass Multiplayer. That does not mean just those of us who are really really into RPGs, but everyone else too.
So what's the solution? Good question, thanks for asking. Maybe different servers, based on your extremism, ranging from the l337 folk, to the SCA folk. We cannot let our elitism scare others away from our community. Be kind welcoming, don't punish people, give helpful suggestions, they work better and establish a lot more good blood in the community.
DISCLAIMER: I am a big SCA fan.
Well, that's my two cents
Role-playing doesn't just mean acting anymore... (Score:3, Insightful)
Role-playing games are not the same as acting. Some of them get a good approximation thereof (like Mind's Eye Theatre stuff from White Wolf and a hard-nosed DM on a Neverwinter persistent world) but what your looking for is over there with all the theatre majors. Final Fantasy VII isn't an acting game, it's a role-playing game. The term has come to define that style of game, and all kinds of variations on the theme, but acting ain't a part of it. Most MMORPGs that have ever been are just the same kind of thing with you able to talk with tons of other people and interact with their versions of Cloud Strife, Tifa, Cid, or whomever. Frankly, Warcraft 3, Shogun: Total War, Quake, Half Life, and just about any other non-puzzle game in existance is as much an acting game as Everquest, Baldur's Gate, or any other so-called "role-playing" game.
I actually like acting, but a game is at best a mediocre stage, and online gaming is the worst of the lot. There are people who have a blast doing it, and more power to them, but acting like the rest of us are ruining your performance is sad.
Paid Actors (Score:1, Insightful)