Real Money Inside in MMORPGs? 417
Cranial writes "Sony Interactive expressly forbids the selling of Everqest or Everquest II ingame items or characters for money, but why? Imagine Massively Multiplayer Games where you can actually cash out your loot in the real world.
What if that jewel in the dragon hoard was actually a digital title for the Hope Diamond or a real ancient artifact?
This article on Programmers Heaven proposes a new economic model for MM games allowing free exchange of game money and items in the real world. Essentially it is a hybridization between online gaming (casino) and MM roleplaying games. Fascinating concept."
BlackHat Hacker Court? (Score:3, Interesting)
Duping? (Score:5, Interesting)
When that happens....maybe.
Wasn't real money per se.. (Score:5, Interesting)
which allowed me to get to level 95 in 4 days.. after that, I went all-item hunting, and just picking up tons of stuff, muling and all...
and.. sold most of it immediately on ebay.. since it was the only way to do it before cheating/duping and all those things happen, while items were actually worth money, I made about 500$, more than my money back!
ya.. supply and demand is cool, too bad Sony's soo against it..
Laissez-Faire runs amok (Score:3, Interesting)
Liability (Score:5, Interesting)
Great concept (Score:3, Interesting)
Until someone "creates" items though some hack, just like every other MMORPG, and sells them off for real money.
This is illegal (Score:1, Interesting)
You can't set up a system of bartering/trading where the IRS doesnt get its "fair share".
If it were possible
Re:Profiteer! (Score:5, Interesting)
I might have been vague on what I meant by "exploit".. I don't mean cheating the server or anything, it's just that when the expansion just came out, anyone that plays it knows that one of the area "Bloody Hill" was insanely stupid - if you were a sorcerer, you literally can kill everything without being touched the way the level was designed - it was an design error which I think on the later patches, they made it harder..
and I just happened to ride on that design mistake - I didn't use any programs to "exploit" anything.. so maybe my choice of words weren't that accurate.. unlike the dupers and hackers and what not...
I don't take anything away from anybody - I didn't force anyone to bid on my stuff on ebay or anything.. if someone values an item at 20$, then I will sell it to them..
If you meant that as that I didn't make the game, well, I did invest tons of time on it, and I guess it's just different opinions.. then I'll just agree to disagree..
Project Entropia (Score:5, Interesting)
1) Exchange real money for ingame money
2) Make money in the game by performing services, selling items, doing stuff, trading, gambling...
The most novel aspect of the game is that it allows you to exchange ingame money back into real money too.
Some things to note about this game is that stuff deteriorates, so over time without updating your items they would lose their monetary value.
What I liked about the idea is that for a certain amount of real money you can buy yourself the skills and tools to keep you busy for a certain amount of time. Then when you want to continue playing you have to either put in an enormous effort to make money in the game, or simply add some more real money. You are paying for playing. Not sure if it is very well balanced in Project Entropia, but the idea is interesting.
MMORPGS Are Not About Reality (Score:3, Interesting)
Now before I venture any further into the realm of dirty-hippie-liberal, let me say that I am completely behind the idea of economic discrimination (that is, allowing economics to determine the outcome of social order, etc.). But I relish the opportunity to have a "Fresh Start" in a game, not being hindered or helped by my real-world life.
If the gamers want this, then I say let them have it (I'm sure the game COs can levy a nice 5% tax on sales and make a killing). But I would plead with the COs to create servers that disallow such activities so those of us who relish the escapism and real-world separation of the MMORPG can continue to carve out our own paths in game, regardless of any social positions we might have gotten ourselves into.
Re:Duping? (Score:5, Interesting)
You buy virtual "boosters", gain virtual cards, which you, if you collect entire sets, can convert to real paper-cards, with "real" value. And I cant remember seeing any restrictions on selling these for real cash as well.
Rich Powergamers (Score:2, Interesting)
The True Cyberspace (Score:5, Interesting)
If you even begin to attempt to do something of this magnitude, the first lawsuit will be the end of it.
Or the first death. Don't think someone won't track another user and kill his punk ass because he stole his deed to some ruby in Nebraska.
Put simply, we don't have the computing capacity, or bandwidth, or security to support this system. These are the kinds of games that movies are based on, and parody. Someone could potentially spend years of their life in a game like this, doing whatever they please. Running a farm, running a shop, whatever.
This is just not possible at the moment. The graphics aren't good enough, the bandwidth isn't there (think of a New York sized metropolitan area--and the massive lag associated with it).
Of course it's a good idea. A virtual society with real money and real consequences, hell, before you know it you'll have mini-governments out there, plus the added intrigue of bounty hunters who go find the bastard that killed your cousin's character and stole all his loot.
You'll vote on the president of a virtual world or continent or server or however you want to specify it. Of course, for this truly to work, it would be game-wide, and that kind of operation would require millions of people to use it to create a revenue stream good enough to make it viable.
Yes, that gold site isn't a "currency" but you damn well better believe the first time a 10 year old earns $10k off of something there would be law quicker than you can say Cease and Decist.
There are too many variables, too much shit that goes along with this kind of idea to make it never get beyond what it already is: a child's perfect dream world, with no corruption or inflation, with no abuse or discourse.
Keep hope alive, but don't even imagine this coming into existence in the next 10 years.
It reminds me of Molyneux's new game, The Movies. He pontificates on the viability of creating all of the "main parts" of your favorite movies with the game. Including Star Wars or Terminator or Fried Green Tomatoes. And you just know it's going to be a lame console game with a PC version that is probably above average. He dreams big, but he hasn't hit the mark in a long time. Black and White's UI-less UI was limp, but he tried.
And its ideas like this that are required for a true cyberspace to come into being.
Good luck.
money laundering (Score:2, Interesting)
Laws against legal tender (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't like it, don't play it. (Score:3, Interesting)
I say, bring it on. I'd rather get money out of a game of skill (besides poker) than with a game of luck (fuck blackjack.)
Not a new concept... (Score:1, Interesting)
That said, it's still a good idea.
Re:Wasn't real money per se.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Endless Possibilities (Score:1, Interesting)
Just what we need: Virtual Grocery Bills!!! (Score:3, Interesting)
From the above article:
"In fact, by selling in-game perishables such as food and water to the players, the monthly subscription fee can be eliminated."
Just imagine what would happen if virtual food and real food came into direct resource competition!! I can just imagine a player carefully planning his avatar's dietary intake for optimum health using high quality virtual foods he was able to afford by eating only frozen bean burrito's himself!
Why this will not happen (and it's too bad) (Score:2, Interesting)
Unfortunately, this will never be the case in virtual worlds.
Not only would it be radically unfair to Sony to sue them because they "nerfed your uber wizard", it also would not be fair to sue them because they did it between the time you offered your uber-wizard for sale on Ebay, and the time your customer got it. Now your customer says you didn't deliver what you promised, but you feel like you did. That is why none of the companies that run these games can *afford* to let you transact in their goods. If they nerf wizards and two hundred people see their ebay value go from $2000 to $20, it's not fair to ask Sony to stand up against the potential property-damage-or-depravation lawsuits.
But even if they *could* write a bullet-proof non-indemnity agreement, (something you can't do in America, or most "civilized" societies) then consider the flip side...
Sony will always have human people working there (coders, dbas) who could cheat, or man-in-the-middle you to death. Or maybe just grant their friend permission to eavesdrop on all your conversations, or just give them every magic item in the game.
Catch 22.
As a side note, imagine the disaster if the game did become a standard place-of-commerce. Then people would have a "right" to participate, and could sue to be let in the game. No more tossing the Griefers, since that would be discrimination. And the ACLU would be right there to make sure that the blind and deaf had access as well, since "It's not just a game anymore". Ick.
Re:This is illegal (Score:1, Interesting)
Think about it this way
Let's say walmart decided it were possible for people to trade "walmart points" amongst each other. One walmart point is equivalent to one US dollar at walmart. If I had 100 walmart points
Would you have a problem with that? Probably not, because you can buy $50 worth of stuff at walmart with it. You can also trade it for something cool from somebody else.
That's an entire economy of goods and services being exchanged without the IRS having any interception.
That's why grocery coupons too have "cash values" written on them. To prevent them from being traded.
Advantage to exist in real-world too... (Score:3, Interesting)
But if you have real money invested in a MMORPG, and you feel it goes sour (e.g. parent company start printing "money", rampant duping or other things wrecking the game experience) you don't really have no recourse, nor any way out except trying to really "sell out", which is usually at a considerable loss.
I wouldn't want to invest in virtual property that way, though I have a Magic deck (not online though) whose value is also quite "virtual" since they're really just a bunch of playing cards...
Kjella
Re:The True Cyberspace (Score:1, Interesting)
Essentially the only difference between this and the mmorpgs today is the game company promoting money in and money out. Every virtual item in a mmorpg to day has a real world value. Check ebay.com or playerauctions.com. All this would do is increase profit for the game creators.
All this article is suggesting is that the companies make their own printing presses. Since they can create rather than earn (by spending time) it's very difficult to not be making positive income.
As far as duping and game bugs go they still can't really lose as they ultimately control the game's economy. The biggest problem with this is that it assumes the game will be fun and therefor profitable. Even though embracing virtual item value will not impact the game in any positive way.
A new job opportynity? (Score:2, Interesting)
Civil and Legal Liability (Score:3, Interesting)
You are all wrong (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:This will ruin the game. (Score:2, Interesting)