Has Nintendo Lost Its Edge?

Thanks to GameSpy for their 'Spy/CounterSpy' editorial discussing whether Nintendo has lost its way in the increasingly competitive gaming world. On the one hand, an editor argues: "One of the few concrete things [Nintendo have] said is that the successor to GameCube is coming out sooner, rather than later, but what's the point if it's as lacking in software as its two predecessors? Or if the software is as samey as the current stuff?" But on the other, there's counterpoint and optimism: "In fact, it's the companies with lots of resources who are falling behind in the race who typically come up with the biggest and riskiest innovations. Given Nintendo's ability to create good hardware and its strategic position in the handheld space, that could mean some VERY cool things in the future."

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Re:Yes

[Snowspinner]

Endless games with Mario in them? For the Gamecube, that would be... let's see... Mario Golf, Mario Party 4, and Super Mario Sunshine? Oh, right, and if you really want to count it, Super Smash Bros Melee. With two more coming - Mario Party 5, and Mario Kart: Double Dash.

Yup. That's the GC library. Except, of course, for Zelda, Metroid, Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, F-Zero, and Nintendo's lock on the Super Monkey Ball, Rogue Squadron, and Resident Evil series.

As you said, Nintendo's games are not much different from what they did before. So perhaps its your idea of fun that's changed, not Nintendo's games.

In a given year, Nintendo will make 2-3 of the best games of the year. Last year they did Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime. This year, it looks like Zelda and F-Zero, though with Mario Kart, Pikmin 2, and their Metal Gear Solid remake, all still coming out this year, they might easily get another. On top of these instant classics, they line the edges with games that are great and worth owning - Pikmin, Mario Golf, etc.

There is no other game company that comes close to that level of quality, for either consoles or PCs. Blizzard takes 2-3 years to come out with one game as great as Zelda, Metroid, or Eternal Darkness.

Considering that, I can't imagine buying a console other than the Nintendo console. Especially since the alleged highlights of other systems - Final Fantasy X, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Halo, for instance, did nothing for me.

So, do I think Nintendo has lost its edge?

I think Nintendo are the only people left who have an edge.

Re:Yes

[liquidzero4]

I couldn't agree with you more. I own all three systems and have been an avid gamer since the Atari 2600 / Intellivision days.

I bought my GC and XBOX within a month of each other. That was about a year ago. At the time I had no idea that 1 year later I'd own 10 GC games and only three XBOX games.

To be honest with you Nintendo are the only ones doing anyhting different. Sure the characters are the same but the games are inovative and fun.

XBOX and PS2 re-hash the same tired games with the same tired gr

Pikmin 2 pushed back

[TheSnakeMan]

with Mario Kart, Pikmin 2, and their Metal Gear Solid remake, all still coming out this year

Unfortunately, I've read on several sites that Pikmin 2 has been moved to Q2 2004 (may was the prediction). Definitely a disappointment, as it was the one title I was really looking forward to this fall. Almost 2 years later, the game I still play the most on my GC is Pikmin.

Re:Yes

[Ondo]

People were moaning about Lara Croft by the time Tomb Raider III was announced - I am sick to DEATH of Mario as he has been around for probably nearly 20 years.

Yes, but Tomb Raider I, II, and III were essentially the same game with different levels from what I've heard. Nintendo has pretty much never done that.

Re:Yes

[PyroMosh]

NONE of the super mario games have had the same game play. Ever. With the exception of SMB2 Japan (Lost Levels here in the U.S.).

SMB 1 was the classic, shitty control formula that was ground breaking at the time but doesn't hold up so well.

SMB 2J (LL) was more of the same with diffrent levels. Oh, and Luigi had slightly diffrent control in that one.

SMB 2 was a side scroller, but you didn't kill bad guys by jumping on them, the emphesis ws on throwing things and bad guys.

SMB 3 was slightly like SMB 1, but there were so many game play and control changes as to make it a new game.

SMB World was also, again, similar to 1 and 3. But there was enough of a diffrence to make it unique.

SMB World 2 was NOTHING like any of the others. Mario was barley in it. It was just "Baby Mario" riding on Yoshi's back. Basicly you played Yoshi. Totally diffrent game.

Mario 64 was unique again still. But I though it was bland and uninteresting. They moved to 3D too soon.

Mario Sunshine has something going for it. The water pack makes for fun, diffrent gameplay, and things like the multiple jumps make for lots of crazy manuevering within levels. Maybe if I'd played Mario 64 further through, Id have encountered cool stuff like this, but it just didn't hold my attention.

Zelda I started that series.

Zelda II was a side scroller, and people hated it because it was too diffrent (I think it may have been the best in the series).

Zelda III reminded me of Zelda I a bit. But the first was so simple, and III so complex, that it's hard to compare the two.

Ocarina of Time was like none of the others. It made Hyrule feel like a vast place. Unlike I and III. II did the same. I guess this is why these two are my favorites.

I never played Majora's Mask, but it used OoT's engine. I can understand the two being very similar.

I've hardly played Wind Waker at all, but it seems very OoT like as well, graphics not withstanding.

Pokemon, I can't comment on at all. I've never played any of them.

From my point of view, the biggest thing is that there's no new franchises. Oh wait. Eternal Darkness. Pikmin. Animal Crossing. Damn.

The point is that Critisizing Mario games for being jumping platformers is like critisizing Warcraft for being RTS. Or Half-Life for being FPS. That's just the meat of the series.

Re:Yes

[drinkypoo]

While I agree with your main points, Zelda I and III are basically the same game for different platforms with different graphics capabilities. III had more going on, but the cart held more, it's that simple. The platformer mario games can be put into two groups; those in which you can pick things up, and those in which you cannot. Otherwise they are more or less the same.

Nintendo's strength is making fun games with good play control (though super mario bros. 2 wouldn't give you any hint of that, really.)

Re:Yes

[Ondo]

Ocarina of Time was like none of the others. It made Hyrule feel like a vast place. Unlike I and III. II did the same. I guess this is why these two are my favorites.

I never played Majora's Mask, but it used OoT's engine. I can understand the two being very similar.

It's not. Your constantly repeating the same three days. It has vastly more interaction with NPCs, as you learn their schedule over the three days and solve the puzzles for them. You get masks that let you transform. And, unfortunately, th

Re:Yes

[Snowspinner]

Out of that list, all but one of the first party games are typical Nintendo franchise games. People were moaning about Lara Croft by the time Tomb Raider III was announced - I am sick to DEATH of Mario as he has been around for probably nearly 20 years.

So in your case "Mario" means "any Nintendo property that has had another game come out in the series"? That's an interesting definition.

I suppose my question would be why reinvent the wheel with new characters? Yes, they could have made Mario Golf with characters who weren't Mario characters... but why? Mario is a perfectly good franchise to use for a cartoony golf game.

Perhaps in your opinion they will, but not others. The only game out of that lot deserving high praise is Eternal Darkness. MP was just Metroid in 3D, and not as good as I had hoped. And how can Metal Gear Solid be so critically acclaimed, when it is just a remake of an older game?

I'd say Eternal Darkness is, on the whole, less inventive than Metroid Prime. Eternal Darkness is a Zelda-esque dungeon hack with some shiny insanity effects. It does a great job on them, and so is still a great game, but Metroid Prime takes the first-person-shooter in a direction it had never been taken before. More to the point, it did things with the first person shooter that people said couldn't be done - platforming sections that didn't suck, exploration based gameplay, etc.

And, I mean, what were you hoping for from Metroid Prime? Something that wasn't Metroid?

But Nintendo only developed Zelda themselves - the other two were done by other development studios.

Second party development studios that, with heavy input and control from Nintendo. I do not consider the fact that Nintendo has begun to expand and take in some other development studios to mean that those games are not Nintendo games.

You yourself said that their games do not change much - so how can they have an 'edge' if that is true?

Nintendo continues to do what it's always done - perfect styles of games, and invent new styles of games. Even their new styles of games, though, have a certain... Nintendoness to them. They display elegance of control, and are typically very easy to pick up and play, but not nearly so easy to beat, and harder still to "fully" beat (i.e. unlock everything, get 100% completion, etc).

Regardless, in every genre and style Nintendo has attempted, they are reliably among the best at it.

That seems an edge to me.

Re:Yes

[NonSequor]

MP isn't inventive at all - all the elements from it have been around in all the previous Metroid games for years. All they did was put it in 3D. I don't see GTA3 is being very invenive, as that is just GTA in 3D.

I don't know what the hell to say.

Okay, I've managed to collect myself after a few minutes.

The innovative thing is that Nintendo took something old and infused it with something new without fucking destroying it. This is extremely difficult to do with anything, including video games. It's like

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

" I am getting tired of endless games with Mario in them."

Mario's simply a character to Nintendo, not a game formula. It's kind of like saying you're sick of movies that have Edward Norton in them. Could be worse, Mario could be like Jean Claude Van Damme.

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"When it comes to films, you hear people saying that they are sick of seeing the same actors all the time - and I am sick of Mario."

Typecasting is the problem, not seeing the actors. Notice not all celebrities follow that formula you've created.

Re:Yes

[NanoGator]

"Whilst their games used to be new and exciting, it is all the 'same old same old' these days. I am getting tired of endless games with Mario in them."

I think you're confusing Mario for Sonic the Hedgehog. Seriously, what exactly is so insightful about this? The GameCube is not known for 'rehashes'. Now if you want to have a peek over at Sony and Microsoft's camp...

Frankly, I think this guy's just forgotten what fun gameplay is about. You can look at Mario Sunshine and say "yep, he's running around

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Nintendo have a habit for reusing the same things over and over. I find it amazing that you can point the finger at MS and Sony for it, yet not Nintendo."

I think you're amazed because you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Having familiar characters in a game does not a rehash make. Is What Dreams May Come just like Death to Smoochy?

"Strange as it may seem, what is fun to you may not be fun to other people."

I think his point is that you've got your head up your ass. You're to

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"I didn't say that JUST having the same characters makes it a rehash. But many of their games are rehashes, and using the same characters for nearly twenty years reinforces that view."

Heh, no, it doesn't.

"No, it is the usual GC-owner response that signifies that they cannot understand why not everyone finds Nintendo games fun."

Nice try, but no. This isn't Nintendo zealousy talking, it's somebody who's arguing with your details that sound an awful lot like frequent complaints made by the people who ha

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Half arsed assumption is believing that SMS is significantly different to Mario 64"

This comment alone disproves your point.

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

Sorry, hit submit when I meant to hit preview.

"Half arsed assumption is believing that SMS is significantly different to Mario 64"

This alone disproves your point. If you don't see the difference between SMS and Mario 64, then how can anybody take you seriously? It's got some of the same fundamentals, no argument there. It is, though, a hell of a lot richer of an experience over Mario 64. Being good at Mario 64 does not make you good at Mario Sunshine. You still have a lot to learn in order to do an

Re:Yes

[Anonvmous Coward]

"Because it is totally true, and is something that has been stated in numerous reviews. There is far more than mere 'fundamentals' that are similar - the main crux of the game is the same."

Funny, I went skimming around the reviews. I found one that supported your statement, and a handful of others that had lots of good things to say about the evolutions of the game. There's something I'll concede to: the game's not revolutionary, but it's a heck of an evolution. I'll settle onn that. However, somethin

Re:Yes

[NanoGator]

"No, the case is that as usual Nintendo fans cannot bear the critisism."

In general, that may or may not be true. In this case, though, you made a really stupid comment. If I were you, I'd own up to that instead of trying to pass the blame off on Nintendo enthusiasm.

AnonV was absolutely correct that your comment likening Super Mario Sunshine to Mario 64 was disputable. One would really have to oversimplify to say they're the same. I have a feeling that's how you hit is hot button. I don't think he's

GC 2

[bartok]

The only way I can see Nintendo taking the lead over Microsoft with it's next generation console is if the GameCube 2 can play GBA games without a GBA pluged-in. (By having a carthroge slot on the side and the regular CD player for GC & GC2 games) The GBA game library is so huge that all of a sudden, your console could play them all from the day of it's release AND have access to regular CG games.

It's so obvious that this is a wining strategy IMHO.

Re:GC 2

[edwdig]

You can do that now. You can get a free GameBoy Player when you buy a GameCube. The only reason to plug the GBA into the GameCube is if you'd prefer to use the GBA as a controller instead of the GameCube controller.

Re:GC 2

[drinkypoo]

Or if a game requires that you use the GBA as a controller. Two games do so now in multiplayer mode, crystal chronicles and some zelda game.

Re:GC 2

[mrpuffypants]

Or what about just making the memory cards and their slot the same form factor as GBA games? That way if you wanted to play a GBA game you could just plug it right into the memory card slot and play away.

poor nintendo

[Phoenix Dreamscape]

Poor Nintendo... a mere $572 million in profits [canoe.ca]. How can they ever survive? Seems hopeless, eh?

With such pathetically unoriginal titles like Pikmin, Warioware, and Metroid Prime, it seems like the Gamecube is little more than trash that they through out because they refuse to let well-enough alone.

What Nintendo really needs is to start pumping out some derivative First-Person shooter titles with laggy internet support so I can get my ass kicked by cocky assholes with bad grammar.

Re:poor nintendo

[(trb001)]

methinks some moderators misinterpreted your sarcasm for "+1: Insightful"...

Re:poor nintendo

[mausmalone]

Maybe they thought that the point that the sarcasm was making was insightful. Nobody thinks that the GCN needs a new FPS.... Heck, not even the X-Box needs another FPS. If I see one more game where I'm walking around dark hallways with a gun right under my eyeball, I'm gonna shoot somebody for real.

Re:poor nintendo

[bigman2003]

I hate grammar nazi's..

But, if you are going to knock other people's grammar, make sure you can spell 'throw' right. 'Through' is close, but they mean different things, and actually don't even sound the same.

Re:poor nintendo

[Flamerule]

I hate grammar nazi's..

I hate slashdotter's who put apostrophe's before the 's' in place's they don't need to be.

Re:poor nintendo

[bigman2003]

Good point-

WTF?

[octover]

Why is everything good in the world constantly dying? I just switched over to the dying Apple OS, Mac OS X. It has been the best OS I have ever run. (Not to say it doesn't have its deficiencies, but overall I have enjoyed the experience a lot more than anything else) I own a PS2 and a Gamecube, I have an X Box in the house. The PS2 is in my brothers room, I don't play it that much. The X Box hardly gets turned on by anyone. The Gamecube is in my room so I can readily play it. I used to buy all the games, but I am slowly becoming everything I ever hated, and don't have the time for all of the good games. So I can only play the cream of the crop, which I have found tends to be my Gamecube. I find that my Gamecube is the best of all the systems. I find that I wouldn't trade my Mario Golf, F Zero GX, Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Party 4, Super Smash Brothers Melee, for anything. I've even found the games that are available on other platforms are better on my Gamecube (i.e. Soul Caliber 2).

If this is what dying things are like, I hope that more things that I currently enjoy go into a perpetual state of dying.

F-Zero GX

[metamatic]

If you think F-Zero GX is good, you should get the PS2 back from your brother and try Wipeout Fusion...

Re:F-Zero GX

[metamatic]

Hmm, my feeling about F-Zero GX was that the controls were awful. There was no sense that the vehicle had any momentum at all. Maybe it's partly the Nintendo controllers that are the problem.

FZero-GX: Good Game, Crappy Gameplay

[Cliff]

I'd have to agree with you here. FZero-GX is a great game hampered by crappy gameplay due to a LACK of fine-control on tracks that require it. It doesn't help that I can't progress any further in the game (after completing only the first Grand Prix track) since the last tracks in the next set of races are completely designed to throw you off the track (thus "retiring" you, and you get nothing for the races you did complete if this happens).

It sucks, because everything else about the game is great, and I'

Re:F-Zero GX

[blincoln]

I thought the controls were excellent. Did you use the built-in calibration feature?

I'm hardly a bad-ass gamer (I had to use an Action Replay to make it through Devil May Cry), but I was able to finish all four F-Zero GX cups on Master difficulty and all but one of the story missions on Hard difficulty with a bit of practice.

GX is definitely my favourite game so far this year. The only one that I know is going to overtake it is Defiance.

Re:WTF?

[drinkypoo]

Not only is Mac OS X dying because it's Apple, it's dying because it's *BSD! Maybe that's why it's so good, it's dying twice.

Nintendo - the Apple of game systems

[yetanothertechie]

I'm beginning to see parallels between Apple and Nintendo, particularly in predictions about their demise. How many articles have their been since gamecube came out saying that Nintendo was going down the tubes?

The fact is, the gamecube is an excellent platform and there are a huge number of great games available, (not as many as PS2, but plenty). They also have a dedicated fan base that's not likely to embrace either of the other platforms any time soon. For those who complain that they have too many "kids" games, there will always be lots of kids playing games, so it's not like they'll have a declining market. For that matter, so many of their games are great for any age: windwaker, animal crossing, soul caliber 2, various sports games...how are these for kids only?

Why does Nintendo get bashed so much? What, you'd rather support Microsoft or Sony?!

Re:Nintendo - the Apple of game systems

[Guppy06]

"I'm beginning to see parallels between Apple and Nintendo,"

Could be worse. Apple doesn't have to work practically next door to a major competitor.

I wonder if the NOA crew have managed to TP the MSFT compound yet...

Re:Nintendo - the Apple of game systems

[SuperRob]

Why does Nintendo get bashed so much? Because we all grew up with Nintendo, and we all loved Nintendo. We grew up, and our tastes changed, and Nintendo stayed Nintendo. Now that Nintendo no longer gives us EXACTLY what we want, it has to be Nintendo's problem, and not ours, right?

I always tell people, "Don't worry. Some day, you're going to get married, have kids of your own, and find that Nintendo is right there where you left them, waiting with open arms to entertain you and your family once again."

Kinda?

[darkmayo]

Nintendo itself is still putting out quality games.. now those are the games put out by nintendo... games like Zelda, F-zero, Animal Crossing, Mario Golf..

Mario Sunshine was ok.. but it just didn't seem like Mario.. as well they have been trying to have the gameboy advance be apart of alot of new games.. (Metroid Fusion/Prime, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicals) as well they still have the stigma of being the "family system" despite there attemps to draw in the older audiences.

After they sn

Re:Kinda?

[Incoherent07]

I agree with you that losing Square was a mistake, but that was a mistake made 5 or 6 years ago and a mistake they're finally trying to correct.

I am going to take issue with you saying they still have the stigma of being the "family system". Why is that a stigma? Are kids, or for that matter adults, too "cool" for platformers, or what amounts to an adventure/RPG, or some of the other original games they've put out recently?

Not everything in life is about shooting up the bad guys or watching the bounci

RPG point

[phorm]

Indeed... it would be interesting if one could draft up how many people bought a system for a specific game, or type of game.

I for one looked at PS2 because it had FFX, and I'm a huge fan of the series. Too bad that the FF series stopped at the SNES, because for me it's been a huge part of my gaming experience.

If my PS2 didn't also work as a DVD player, I'd daresay that I perhaps wasted a bit of money buying it just for FFX - though I've recently found a few "bargain" RPG's that seem promising (PS2 lent

Re:Kinda?

[drinkypoo]

I don't think Xbox live will have any trouble making money. I suspect it's how they really plan to recoup costs on selling Xboxen under profit. I haven't got Xbox live yet because A> I've been waiting for live 2.0 and B> I've been waiting for Crimson Skies, the game I most want to play online on my Xbox. Not to mention the upcoming Live-enabled version of Sega GT. On the other hand I might have to get another Playstation 2 (I ditched mine for rent money) so I can play Gran Turismo 4 and Colin McRae Ra

Are you kidding?

[vasqzr]

Worst of all, in my opinion, was the system's mediocre performance. Games generally seemed to have less polygons than similar PlayStation titles and had terribly blurry textures and sub-SNES quality music. The hardware that had looked so hot in 1996 aged incredibly quickly, and many gamers noticed.


Play any title that's on both PSX and N64...tell me which is better. Tony Hawk for instance.

The Playstion is a horrid splash of bouncing, jaggie-filled, sparkling textures, and the N64 version is a smooth, antialiased, 3D world.

Re:Are you kidding?

[ab5tract]

This is actually an argument I've been in numerous times, and each time it ended with both sides winning. How? As everyone knows, Nintendo decided to use cartridges for the N64. I'm not sure what the average numbers for N64 cartridges are, but I can garuntee you they are counted in Mega-bits, just like cartridges for the SNES (remember Chrono Triggger and FF3? "32-Megabit cartridge! Biggest Game Ever!!@!"). So even if they ever managed to squeeze 650 Mb into one cartridge (and I'm rather sure that they nev

Re:Are you kidding?

[Bagels]

Actually, the effect you're seeing with the textures on the N64 is bilinear filtering, not AA.

Re:Are you kidding?

[scot4875]

Bilinear filtering is an anti-aliasing technique. So yes, he is seeing AA.

And the only way to get AA out of a Playstation was to play it on a crappy TV. (Still no perspective correction, tho)

--Jeremy

Re:Are you kidding?

[drinkypoo]

The N64 is a superior platform but many of the ports from PSX were sloppy, and plenty of the games were just craptacular. I bought some racing game once and got it home only to find out that when you turned, the cars pivoted around their center point, not around the rear wheels. Great. This is probably because nintendo is seen as the kiddy konsole and people assume that children won't have standards as high as teens and adults.

Sony's global presence and utter worldwide ubiquity - I can probably name sev

bah

[reptilezero]

i don't understand why people think ninteno is going to die. they own the handheld market and they're making a profit. i bought a gamecube just to play the gba games on the gba player, and it was a much better purchase than my xbox. this is coming from someone who has been dogging nintendo since the n64 debacle. once you give the games a chance, it becomes clear why nintendo isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Gamecube titles

[mr.capaneus]

The Gamecube really does not suffer from a lack of titles. The reason that it isn't selling well in the U.S. is the perception that there is a lack of titles. The console business is all about marketing and image these days. People will buy what their friends have and what they think is cool. I have both a GC and a PS2. While there are more games that I can purchase for the PS2, there are more games I want to play on the GC, by far. I had been planning on buying a Gamecube because I really wanted to play Metroid Prime and Zelda. Unfortunately I decided to "research" my decision on the web and everything I read said that the GC was inferior to the PS2. I hate to say it but I think the inertia of the market is going to continue for a while longer. Nintendo will wane. Xbox will wax. PS2 will continue to dominate.

Some signs that Nintendo has lots its edge

[AtariAmarok]

Pokemon? It's the new hot property. Look for lots of new games!

Refusal to come out with "Vice City"-style Zelda game in which Link has a Hookershot weapon.

Mario now jumps and smashes Geritol bottles instead of bricks.

Rumors of R&D department having the next-generation console load games off of a "Close and Play" phonograph.

"Dharma and Greg" TV tie-in game, coming soon!

Re:Some signs that Nintendo has lots its edge

[Guppy06]

"Refusal to come out with "Vice City"-style Zelda game in which Link has a Hookershot weapon"

Am I the only person to read that and immediately think that suction-cup gun Ataru pulled on Lum in the first chapter of Urusei Yatsura?

How come nobody's build that?

Completely Untrue

[Prien715]

Nintendo is doing more innovation with its system than either X-Box or Sony.

First, look at the controller. Sony decided to copy its last system almost whole-sale. X-Box is absolutely abysmal.

Round two. Software. I don't know who's been saying Nintendo hasn't been making innovative games. Two words: Metroid Prime. It's won game of the year practically every major gaming site and is the only game to really combine the FPS and an adventure game in such a tight package. The newest Zelda game has some of the most revolutionary graphics I've seen in a while. Lastly, is there any multiplayer game more fun and unique than Smash Brothers (or the sequel)? If anyone can find what game they've decided to copy with that, I'd be really curious.

On the flipside, the X-Box's main draw is yet-another-first-person-shooter. Sony's best are available for other consoles (Madden on everything, GTA on PC).

While Nintendo's games tend to star familiar characters, that doesn't mean the gameplay involved cannot be truly innovative, which is really the same its always been.

Re:Completely Untrue

[edwdig]

Metroid Prime is by far my favorite 3D game - I've already played through it 4 times. But it's not very innovative. It's just like Super Metroid, only more linear, but from a different camera angle. Sure, there were some innovative bits, like the scan visor, but as a whole, the game was just a slightly weaker Super Metroid.

Probably the best thing they did was the control scheme. The last few bosses would've been near impossible with a dual-analog control scheme. You need quick access to all your abilities

Re:Completely Untrue

[lp_bugman]

The inovative point about Metroid Prime is that they succesfully translated a 2D game in to the 3d world mantaining it's roots!
Most games fail at this, it's very difficult to transform 2D platformes in to the 3d world. I for once DON'T like 3d Games. I stay playing my SNES (Super Metroid), Saturn (Radian Silver Gun, Megaman, Dracula X, Metal Slug, Stree fighters, etc.) and DreamCast (Bangai-o, ikaruga, mars matrix).

There are a feew 3D games that I do like like Metroid Prime and Wolfestein Enem. Territor

Re:Completely Untrue

[edwdig]

The inovative point about Metroid Prime is that they succesfully translated a 2D game in to the 3d world mantaining it's roots!

That's not innovative. It's something that's not easy to accomplish, and rarely happens, but that doesn't mean it's innovative. Innovative would be if they went in a new direction with the series.

Re:Completely Untrue

[Guppy06]

"First, look at the controller."

I'm personally amazed at how dynamic the controller is. I've discovered that it's better (for me and my gargantuan hands, at least) to put your middle fingers on the L & R triggers (and my right-index on the Z) in games that use the analog stick while games that rely on the d-pad feel better when I have my index fingers on L & R. I'm tempted to say it was designed to work that way. All the dynamics of the N64 controller without looking like one.

Re:Completely Untrue

[drinkypoo]

Let's see. First of the current generation of consoles to do net-enabled gaming? Xbox. Voice chat? Xbox. IM-style integration? Xbox live 2.0 (is that out yet?) Xbox live 2.0 will also feature/now features video and audio streaming (from windows, naturally.) Xbox has a hard drive, that's not "innovation" or what passes for it anyway? (Some of you people seem to think that logical progressions are innovation. Go work for the patent office, you'll be in like company.)

By the way, I don't know anyone who doesn

Re:Completely Untrue

[Dot.Com.CEO]

First of all, let me just say that I read your various comments on this topic and I really think that you have no idea of what you are talking about. You seem intent on trolling anyone who has a Gamecube while not offering any opinions of your own

However, this is slashdot and trolling is your god-given right.

What I find amazing is that you say that Metroid Prime is just Metroid in 3d. Pardon my question but have you even played the game for more than a minute? I own all three consoles as well as a pretty

Re:Completely Untrue

[Dot.Com.CEO]

What worries me the most is that with the advent of the internet you can put ramblings like the ones above on a web page, pimp it on slashdot by selling your "articles" on your signature while ignorantly insulting people who just offer an opinion different to yours. Calling me a fanboy does not strengthen your case. Neither does sarcasm. And don't get me started on that LOL. Good-day to you, sir, and goodbye.

Re:Completely Untrue

[PainKilleR-CE]

>Nintendo is doing more innovation with its system
>than either X-Box or Sony.

Yes, the whole GC-GBA connectivity is SO much more advanced over online gaming on the Xbox and PS2 (yes, I am being sarcastic).

The only difference between Sony's online offering and Nintendo's is that Sony is putting more support into it. Otherwise, both companies did the same thing: offer an online adapter and let the developers decide how to support it. At the least, Nintendo's working with it in terms of LAN gaming, th

well, maybe

[nocomment]

"In fact, it's the companies with lots of resources who are falling behind in the race who typically come up with the biggest and riskiest innovations. Given Nintendo's ability to create good hardware and its strategic position in the handheld space, that could mean some VERY cool things in the future."

I don't see the gamecube as beeing all that behind. Sega maybe, but in the US Nintendo is #3 behind the PS2, and xbox, in Europe it in #2 behind playstation, and in Asia it has been #2 for awhile with a su

Differentiation...

[dmayle]

Before I sold my consoles (I moved out of the U.S. and haven't gotten around to buying local versions yet), I had a Gamecube and a PS deux (yes, I'm in France now). The Gamecube, which has much less software than the PS2, I used to play Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, Mario, Luigi's Mansion, Super Smash Bros., and Super Monkey Ball. This basically breaks down into two categories, platformers and party games. On the PS2, I played Ico, Dance Dance Revolution, and Squaresoft games. I looked at the Xbox, and sort of envied the Xbox Live thing...

Anyway, what it all comes down to is that each console serves a certain area the best. If you want platform games, you get a Gamecube. If you want DDR, Square, or edgy games, you get a PS2, and if you want online play, you get an Xbox...

hardware?

[Jonny 290]

Given Nintendo's ability to create good hardware

This statement perplexes me. How can you equate overheating N64's, asinine controllers, stupid battery backups in your stupid carts, etc. good hardware?

Nintendo admitted that they fuck stuff up on purpose with the Advance SP. WHY did you remove the ordinary, industry-standard, easy to use 1/8" headphone connector, Nintendo? Oh yeah. So you could trick us into buying "the perfect game boy" and then rip us for $15 for your stupid fucking cable.

that headphone cable is all of $0.99

[raygundan]

You can find those headphone cables for $0.99. I bought mine from a reseller like success-hk.com or lik-sang.com-- i have forgotten which one now. Get all your GBA SP pals together and do one big order to save on shipping.

Not having the headphone jack built-in is pretty silly, though. But PLEASE don't go justifying Nintendo's stupidity by paying them $15 for their intentional feature-pruning.

Re:hardware?

[Boglin]

stupid battery backups in your stupid carts

I love that being forced to pay $15 for a cable that you just need for headphones is stupid, but NOT charging me $25 for a memory card to save my #$^%ing game is also stupid.

Re:hardware?

[Guppy06]

"This statement perplexes me. How can you equate overheating N64's, asinine controllers, stupid battery backups in your stupid carts, etc. good hardware?"

It was good enough for Sony. There is nothing that Sony did to their PSX/PS2 controller that Nintendo didn't do first. Even the basic premise is a rip-off of the SNES controller (or is it coincidence that Sony made the first non-Nintendo console ever to have a "Select" button on the controller?)

that time again...

[(trb001)]

<sigh> It's apparently that time of year again (quarterly, right?) when someone decides Nintendo has had it. And it amazes me that it's always for one (or more) of the same reasons...small number of games, lack of originality, lack of FPS games, it isn't the , etc.

Nintendo has a niche. It occupies and fulfils that niche extremely well. Other consoles aren't going to take its niche. Its niche (two, really) is 1) Game Boy, 2) fun, non serious games. There haven't been competitors for it since Sega's handheld that died out (but was arguably better than the Game Boy...little larger, backlit, etc). The backwards compatibility of the GB ensures that people will keep buying it since there are quality games of all genres represented that you can get for CHEAP (read: under $10 on eBay).

Gamecube would have to be my choice, if only because the XBox and PS2 seem to be copying the PC mentality of games, only without the control interface (I like the mouse). Playing the PS2 is fun, but it's fun in the same way Quake was fun. Nintendo opens a completely separate world, one that you can only get (well done, at least) on consoles.

Mostly, that's side scrolling arcade games, what Nintendo did FAMOUSLY back in the 80's/90's. With exception to Commander Keen, I haven't played a lot of side scrolling PC games that I really dug. Mega Man, Castlevania, Mario, Life Force, all these are side scrolling games that were/are Nintendo 's bread and butter. They aren't complicated, don't involve every button and you can play for just a few minutes. There are still lots of people that like them, so Nintendo isn't going away anytime soon.

--trb

So I decided to buy a Game Cube

[Snowmit]

As a dedicated PC gamer, I've been spending a lot of time lately trying to decide which of the three consoles I should buy. I only have a medium sized budget so I can't buy all three or anything.

I'll never understand all of the arguments that you shouldn't get a Game Cube because it doesn't have very many titles. I don't want very many titles, I just want about six great titles a year. My pocket book can't take much more, what with the PC gaming habit and the rent and food and all the other stuff.

On top of that, a big chunk of the best games for Xbox and PS2 will make their way to the PC at some point (GTA, Halo, and so on). Often with a better control scheme. I really don't want to plunk down a bunch of money for redundancy.

Game Cube, here I come.

Re:So I decided to buy a Game Cube

[bildstorm]

I most whole-heartedly concur. That's why I got a GameCube. My younger siblings have all three and with the titles I've played, I've preferred the feel of the GameCube controller and found that without too much work I can find a good game to play on the GameCube. Note that I also used to sell all three of these systems at EB Games.

When it comes to gaming, if it's complex and I can't get out and get back in quickly, I want it to be a PC game where I can stare at my high refresh-rate monitor (or LCD that's c

Nintendo's situation in different levels (opinion)

[Metroid72]

1. Games: In this area, I believe that even though they posess the most valuable set of game characters, many of the old gamers perceive that recent games have been updates to newer technologies (3D, etc), but the esence is the same. Since these fans have grown and their interest have changed, that enforces the 'kiddie-game' perception. Maybe Nintendo should have anticipated that their client base grew older and had other needs. Another problem is that current technology demand for longer development ti

Why all the Nintendo doomsday predictions?

[thelenm]

Why are we constantly seeing these claims that Nintendo is lost, that it's doing poorly, etc.? What is it that they're supposedly doing wrong? Is it their half-billion dollars in profits this past year? Is it their lack of laggy online games which only a small percentage of gamers even care about? Is it their lack of dime-a-dozen shoot 'em ups with snazzy graphics and nothing else? Maybe it's because they actually know how to make games that are fun, challenging, and interesting despite the crapflood o

Least Popular?

[BTWR]

Is it just me, or does the gamecube seem to be the most popular system here on /.?

I mean, slashdot is not the average users' demographic, but it always just seems to me that a LOT of people here have a gamecube...

Have they lost their edge...

[Anonvmous Coward]

...or have they opted to stay out of the hype fest?

Ever notice how much more practical Nintendo is? Ever notice that their audience follows them no matter who the competitors are? Ever notice that Nintendo titles constantly sell in the millions?

Okay, Nintendo may not be on top, but they're in a much more secure position than Sony and Microsoft are. Either one of those companys could suddenly 'lose' to a newcomer who sells the right mix of hardware and hype. Nintendo's pretty much a sure hit as long as

Re:Nintendo's Problem

[mr.capaneus]

some of the funnest games on GC look like the type of thing that most grown Adults would avoid

translation: Some of the funnest games on GC look like the type of thing that most 14 year olds that want to act like adults would avoid.

Re:Nintendo's Problem

[ziggles]

How sad for you.. a 23 year old with a 14 year old's maturity. :P

Re:Nintendo's Problem

[CasulPoster]

I'm not too happy with Nintendo's decision to cater to a younger crowd... or rather, to make their games "family friendly" - but I think that's just what they're doing.

Every business has a business plan, or mission statement, or something along those lines - and I think Nintendo's underlying philosophy is summarized in the name of their original system in Japan "Famicon" (short for "Family Console").

Nintendo isn't trying to put out games FOR kids, rather, they're trying to put out games that everyone

Re:They don't realize:

[edwdig]

Tell me, how does the use of mini DVD's hurt anyone? Oh, it hurts the pirates. And maybe 2% of games feel an effect from it. A GameCube disc still holds 2.5x as much as a CD does, and is about equal in storage to a Dreamcast disc. It's not a big deal for a game to need a second disc - I've even seen four disc PlayStation 1 games.

On all disc based systems the manufacturer of the system produces the discs. Doesn't matter what format they're in, they all cost pennies to make. Nintendo cut their licensing fees

Re:They don't realize:

[Artifex]

Tell me, how does the use of mini DVD's hurt anyone?

The fact that it couldn't play DVDs, and the other two consoles could, definitely kept me from seriously considering it.

People who only have enough money for one console, probably look for the one with the most functionality. Especially if they are looking to get it for their kids.

Re:They don't realize:

[edwdig]

The fact that it couldn't play DVDs, and the other two consoles could, definitely kept me from seriously considering it.

cost of GameCube + DVD Player = cost of PS2/Xbox

The PS2 DVD player blows. My roommate had a PS2, and we'd often try using it to play DVDs. But half the time I'd end up taking the disc out and putting it in my computer due to the PS2 having trouble. It just doesn't like certain scenes. You pretty much have to buy the DVD remote for the PS2 as using the controller to play a DVD is completely unintuitive.

I know I'd much rather have a GameCube + DVD player combo. About the same cost as a PS2, but better DVD playback. Haven't heard anything about the Xbox's DVD playback quality, but I doubt it tops a dedicated player.

Re:They don't realize:

[bigman2003]

XBox DVD playback is pretty good. I am not a videophile, or audiophile, but I personally can't see any problems with it at all. Best of all, I've never had a skip, or hiccup on it at all. This is far better than my early generation DVD player, or my fiancee's el-cheapo player. I used to avoid renting DVD's because of skips- but that is a thing of the past now that I use my Xbox

Frequently it gets mentioned that the DVD playback ability costs $30- that is true. But, you don't need to buy any memory cart

Re:They don't realize:

[Scrameustache]

Who the hell modded that guy up?

The PS2 DVD player blows. My roommate had a PS2, and we'd often try using it to play DVDs. But half the time I'd end up taking the disc out and putting it in my computer due to the PS2 having trouble.

Funny, I use my PS2 as my primary DVD player, it never gives me problems.

It just doesn't like certain scenes.

Maybe the disc is scratched? Maybe it wasn't burned right?

You pretty much have to buy the DVD remote for the PS2 as using the controller to play a DVD is complet

Actually, it depends on the age of PS2?

[phorm]

I've heard this arguement (DVD's don't work well) from several people, but mostly those with older PS2's. I believe that the early PS2's didn't handle DVD's nearly as well as the newer line did. My friend's of several years ago sucked for DVD's, but mine (1 year old) plays 'em just fine.

Re:They don't realize:

[Guppy06]

"You pretty much have to buy the DVD remote for the PS2 as using the controller to play a DVD is completely unintuitive."

At least you don't have to buy the remote to get the DVD driver update. Oh, wait...

Re:They don't realize:

[Anonvmous Coward]

"The fact that it couldn't play DVDs, and the other two consoles could, definitely kept me from seriously considering it."

The PS2 aspired to be both a game machine and a DVD player, and didn't excel at either. The games may be fun on it, and the DVD player may more or less work, but both suffered. PS2 games have a soft blurry look to them due to a RAM bottleneck (to the point that side by side, the Dreamcast looked superior), and there are numerous complaints about the DVD playing abilities of that mac

Re:They don't realize:

[NanoGator]

"The fact that it couldn't play DVDs, and the other two consoles could, definitely kept me from seriously considering it."

Somehow I doubt that this will affect your decision to buy a next gen machine. You've already got a DVD player now, why would it be a factor next time around? Even if you would, it's not so clear anybody else would. Who'd buy a game machine that plays VHS tapes?

Re:They don't realize:

[Guppy06]

"Use STANDARD MEDIA! (...) mini-DVD's."

What's not "standard" about mini-DVDs? They're still DVDs, just smaller. I think you're confusing "standard" with "I can't easily buy blank media to pirate games onto." If you're so desparate to rip-off Blockbuster, wait a little while for somebody to make a digital camera that writes to 8 cm DVD+RWs, because until then burning GCN games is the only possible market for such a medium.

Or are you bemoaning about the GameCube's inability to play DVD movies? With thi

Re:disappointed

[edwdig]

And it was mentioned in a previous article that most guys don't want to be caught playing something like Mario Golf or Mario Party

Look around at a college some time. The Nintendo multiplayer games are really popular.

The game developing companies Nintendo has lost are the companies that would release a buggy port of a 2nd rate game with a low framerate on the GameCube 6+ months after it came out on the other systems, and then wonder why it didn't sell.

Re:disappointed

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"action, fighting, and girls"

You are the kind of male that bugs me. You fall into the stereotype set by society and thus reinforce the idea that all that men are interested in is violence and sex. It's unfortunate that an entire gender is thought of in those terms.

"most guys don't want to be caught playing something like Mario Golf or Mario Party"

In my experience this is not true. Some men may be like you, but most just don't care. In the student center at the local unviersity, they have a room set up wi

Re:disappointed

[Gr33nNight]

If I want porn, I go to the internet. If I want to have fun, I play a game. At least on the internet, I can control it with one hand, try playing a video game like that :(

"M" rating != Matrure Gamer

[August_zero]

most guys don't want to be caught playing something like Mario Golf or Mario Party, when there are other games geared more toward what males are looking for, which is action, fighting, and girls. Games like Grand Theft Auto and DOA Extreme Beach Volleyball

Well I am a guy, and I don't have a problem with other guys seeing me play those games. Most all of my guy friends like these games as well. Most of our significant others enjoy playing these games with us as too. What better kind of game is there tha

Re:disappointed

[Guppy06]

"They've lost sight of who their core audience is, which is males. "

1. You're confusing the general category "males" with the sub-category of "boys." Anybody with a Y chromosone that's (mentally) older than the age of 18 and isn't terminally homophobic has no problem playing Nintendo's games.
2. You're confusing Nintendo's target audience with Sony's and Microsoft's. Nintendo's target audience is now, has always been and will always be "everybody." Maintaining artistic vision instead of always chasing after

Re:disappointed

[tankdilla]

This whole comment's last shred of validty goes out the window you mention Eidos leaving as a bad thing.

I guess I should've mentioned Capcom then. Or take your pick of any other company that isn't developing for Nintendo.

The point is this, as a person looking at potential games to play, i'm not looking at Mario Golf and saying to myself, wow that looks like it has great gameplay. If you're not attracting anyone to your product, who will ever know how good/bad the value of the game is. And given the chanc

Re:disappointed

[Ondo]

This whole comment's last shred of validty goes out the window you mention Eidos leaving as a bad thing.

I guess I should've mentioned Capcom then. Or take your pick of any other company that isn't developing for Nintendo.

Capcom?! Capcom has made two Zelda games. Capcom made Resident Evil exclusive to the GameCube. Capcom is coming out with Viewtiful Joe for the GameCube real soon now. Capcom is very much making games for Nintendo.

As for other companies, what other companies? Acclaim, like Eidos, is

Re:disappointed

[Gr33nNight]

Nintendo always said, they create games for all ages. They dont specifically create games for people under 10, just teenagers who think that if they only play violent, bloody games will make them more adult, are the ones who say that all Nintendo makes are kiddie games.

When my friends come over, the GC is the first thing that is turned on, and we are not under 10.

Re:disappointed

[Gr33nNight]

Yeah, my wife doesnt mind the GC either. Shes too busy playing WarioWare on my GBA-SP.

Re:disappointed

[BTWR]

was Link the best choice they had to use as the Gamecube-exclusive character for Soul Calibur 2?

Um... seeing as how gc version of Soul Caliber 2 is outselling PS2 and Xbox combined, I'd say yeah.

Re:Nintendo's Image

[CasulPoster]

Then ask yourself from where does that taint originate? Nintendo DOES have issues. If their product was pure quality (and for what they're worth, they're pretty damn good) there shouldn't be a lot of problem. One of the quality issues however is that they don't have games that appeal to every gamer.

Nintendo's biggest issues right now are:
1. They don't appeal to a more mature audience
2. They keep losing third party developers
3. They have a very weak home-console standing (their most popular product is the G

Re:Nintendo's Image

[unclethursday]

I went to the one before the launch (September 2001), and we had free Smirnoff Ice and skimpy clothed girls walking around on the 21+ night, with an after party at a local nightclub until 5 AM.

;-p

Thursdae
Lush

Re:Nintendo's Image

[unclethursday]

That and the fact that they stopped manufacturing it, its practically unavailable in several countries, it has been number 3 in sales worldwide

If you stop listening to Microsoft and Sony press releases, then you'd realize the Xbox is, in fact, in third place worldwide. Just not by a whole lot. The Xbox has maybe a 2 million unit lead in the world outside of Japan over the GameCube. The GameCube has over a 2.5 million unit lead in Japan over the Xbox.

If we do the math, we see a 2.5 million lead, min

Re:From an industry perspective

[Guppy06]

"Sega showed us it takes more than originality in game design to survive in the console industry. It takes a viable platform and large installed user base."

Specifically, Sega showed us what can happen to a company that has a history of totally abandoning its hardware (and customers) in the middle of its lifespan. Since Nintendo persists on keeping its consoles around long after most other companies would have moved on, the Sega model is misapplied.