Female MMORPG Developers On Influences

Thanks to Warcry for their discussion with a number of female MMOG developers, asking whether "the reason so many MMOGs follow the same paths... is that they were designed, built, and maintained by men." Of the respondents, Judith at Turbine Entertainment points out that "an audience that skews towards immature males will very likely have exaggeratedly female avatars for them to play with", and Srand at Turbine doesn't see any particular male-patterned design trap, suggesting: "the reason so many MMOGs follow the same paths... is that they were designed, built, and maintained by people. And people, as the mantra goes, are stupid."

Re:My theory

[AuMatar]

If you think there's any weird fetish without its own website, you do not yet grok the internet.

Re:My theory

[AuMatar]

Impressive troll. Nice work.

Re:Wha?

[Beeswarm]

There are just some people who can't figure out that a blue vest at Wal-Mart means "Employee." A couple of times, I've been asked if I'm an employee there when I'm wearing jeans, a t-shirt, no blue vest, and my work ID which clearly reads Continental Airlines. Of course the people who asked didn't look like they could read anyway, but still. So, I've learned to take off my ID badge when I leave work so that doesn't happen.

Re:Exaggerated?

[0x0d0a]

Ah, but we have such a rich culture of victimhood in this country.

More seriously, I'll buy into the fact that this game developer chick is right. If less teenage guys bought games, typical game breast size would be smaller.

On the other hand, most of the time when I see victimhood claims, I'm left very dubious as to whether the person who was supposed to have screwed the victim over was really responsible. Should I still be subsidizing black education because well before my great, great, great grandfathe

Re:Exaggerated?

[Anonymous Coward]

>> What about the exaggerated male avatars? Are they there because immature females were driving their design?

No. Exaggerated male avatars are driven by the same immature male fantasies. Boys not only want to oggle busty women and bang them- they want to do it using huge WWE/Superhero type bodies. Would wrestling and comic books be so popular with juvenile males if the monster physique wasn't appealing to their fantasies? Not all body fantasies are sex related- some are power and self image relat

Re:An old saying...

[Eustace Tilley]

As I recall, the author of the mantra in question is the cabaret poet, Boy George. It was from his lyric "The War Song." [bravepages.com]

Addiction, Press the Button, Win a Prize

[Shihar]

Personally, I think the biggest issue is that most MMORPGs cater to a certain type of obsessive behavior. For whatever reasons, women seem to be much more immune to this obsession. Guys on the other hand eat it up. Diablo is a perfect example of a game that made itself a hit not off an interesting story, neat quests, or anything of that lack. Diablo was a hit because you spent hours mindlessly killing stuff. It wasn't even that you were killing things. It was that you were just clicking a button for a prize. I don't think it is even the killing that terms women off. I think it is just how tedious these games are and how you need to be obsessive to enjoy it. Throw the average woman in front of GTA3 and she will find it amusing. Throw her in front of Diablo and she will fall asleep after a few minutes. The difference between the two isn't the killing, it is the obsessive and tedious nature of the games.

The thing is, that while women might be more immune to this then men, I think most men are immune to it too. I think that there is a vast audience out there for MMORPGs. The problem is that they all cater to obsession (granted, there are some exceptions these days, but they are woefully under advertised). Once these games evolve beyond needing someone to be addicted to hitting the button for a prize I think the market will start to really expand. If you could enjoy the game for the games sake, I think that things would drastically improve. How to do this? Build worlds. Build worlds where you don't need to kill to be happy. Even if you do kill on occasion, don't make it so that the only way to kill is to be obsessive about it. I think A Tale in the Desert is about as close as one can get to that these days.

Personally, I'll stick to RPI MUDs until MMORPGs are more then multiplayer Diablo. My MUD, http://www.armageddon.org/ provides a cohesive world based around role playing, permanent death, and it doesn't require you to be obsessive about killing in order to play. You can still kill stuff, you just are not going to gain anything by mindlessly killing hordes NPCs. Once a MMORPG can copy what that MUD has, I'll shell out my 15 a week.

Re:Addiction, Press the Button, Win a Prize

[jkcity]

"The difference between the two isn't the killing, it is the obsessive and tedious nature of the games."

But this does'nt work for certain games, for example most men I know would put "the sims" into the "obsessive and tedious nature" category yet nearly every women I know plays it, so obviously women don't mind tedious they just want different forms of tedious.

Why so many take the same path?

[TheLink]

Go ask Hollywood, and the music industry too.

Sequels, rehashes, cover versions etc.

MMO's are made for women.

[JavaLord]

"the reason so many MMOGs follow the same paths... is that they were designed, built, and maintained by men." Of the respondents, Judith at Turbine Entertainment points out that "an audience that skews towards immature males will very likely have exaggeratedly female avatars for them to play with"

MMOG's seem to have more women players than any other online genre. They also seem feminized. I'm sure some people won't like that statement, but seriously, what other online games put such restrictions on killing/harming other players? What other online games make such a big deal over what your avatar looks like?

Take star wars galaxies for example, it's almost a barbie game online...You can be a dancer! Customize your clothes! Become a tailor or a chef! Only 1 in 500,000 of you will be Jedi though. YEY FUN! Is this what a typical teenage male wants to do? Give me a break.

As for the women characters being "exaggerated" aren't the men too? Maybe it's just that men don't (typically) have the same poor self-esteem when it comes to their body that many women do. I'd bet that 99/100ths of the men play avatars that have bodies they could never have, even if they tried.

I hope game developers don't take this seriously. I don't want to log on to matrix online and have to chose between my avatar looking like Rosie O'Donald, Opera, or Ms. Cleo.

Re:MMO's are made for women.

[Pfhor]

Actually, most studies show that while men do not have as low self esteem as women (especially during the first stages of puberty) men do suffer from poor self image and are felt forced to act masculine or macho, etc. at the expense of being called gay, queer, fag, or worse, a woman. The fact that most male avatars tend to be exagerated also could be linked to the designers trying to compensate for their own insecurities, or the users trying to compensate also, or both. There is a great documentary about male / masculine image in the media called "Tought Guise" which I suggest everyone takes a look at.

Re:MMO's are made for women.

[JavaLord]

The fact that most male avatars tend to be exagerated also could be linked to the designers trying to compensate for their own insecurities, or the users trying to compensate also, or both.

Or maybe they just want to look better? Does someone really have to be insecure to want to look better than they do in real life? Do people really think of their avatar as "them"? I don't, but I can't speak for everyone. What you see in video games isn't much different from television, magazines, music videos, etc

Re:MMO's are made for women.

[spitzig]

Is "Tough Guise" that popular a documentary? I just watched it for a class on gender.

Re:MMO's are made for women.

[Pfhor]

It is commonly used in gender studies courses from what I've seen. Its really one of the few documentaries that I have seen that deals with male gender perceptions in media.

Why they're the same?

[jermyjerm]

It's simple. Just like with other entertainment forms, often the makers are backed by large companies who have a vested interest in the success of the game. It's even magnified in the case of these games since they're paying to set up servers, hire support staff, (etc) in addition to the development of the game. They're not going to try anything risky, but rather take the existing model and change a few elements as systematically as possible.

That's how Hollywood's operated since... always.

The sad thing is

Re:Why they're the same?

[DigitalSpyder]

This is my take on this as well.

The only true innovation in the industry these days is left to the independent developer. Either that or one with a very loose leash (if they exist anymore) from the publisher.

I think as more female developers push into the industry I think they will be able to flex more proverbial muscle so to speak but like you said, the economics of computer games, especially in the MMORPG market are irrefutable. Guys spend a lot of money on these - far more than women. Period. Of those

Re:Why they're the same?

[Psychochild]

Actually, there are some independent online RPGs out there. We just don't get the press coverage of the larger games. We also don't have as high of production values (I.E., our art isn't as pretty as the big-name games).

My own game, Meridian 59 [meridian59.com] is a typical fantasy RPG, with a heavier focus on player vs. player combat and socialization. It has a much more interesting character advancement system which is much faster than most other games.

If you like crafting or an Egyptian setting, you might try A Tal [atitd.com]