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PC Games (Games) Role Playing (Games) Entertainment Games

PC RPGs - Time To Man The Lifeboats? 84

Posted by simoniker from the the-band-played-on dept.
Thanks to GameBanshee for their editorial, written by former Black Isle designer Damien Foletto, discussing how PC RPGs can survive the console role-playing game's popularity surge. He explains that console-originated RPG successes such as Star Wars: Knights Of The Old Republic are a boon: "There is no denying that SW:KOTOR's open-endedness, character creation, and story are heavily influenced by PC RPG development." This, he suggests, helps everyone out in the long run: "When these gamers are exposed to the deeper intricacies of RPG game play, and if they enjoy it, then they are more likely to pursue similar gaming experiences. This may eventually lead them to PC RPGs, or it might just make them more demanding for deeper console RPGs." Elsewhere, the rise of the console RPG is backed up by a new 'GameSpotting' editorial naming their favorite RPGs of 2003, all of which originated on consoles.
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PC RPGs - Time To Man The Lifeboats? More

PC RPGs - Time To Man The Lifeboats?

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  • Really, the game is essentially Neverwinter Nights in Star Wars. A good thing, and I think it goes a long way towards popularizing PC RPG's -- man the lifeboats, indeed.

  • PC vs RPG consoles? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:05AM (#7960805) Journal
    Isn't it japanese vs western rpgs? Most of the western ones tend to go for "open" story with lots of optional sidequests. Japanese tend to be more linear with a far stronger story telling element. Put it another way, Baldur Gate has a large number of potential party members you may never even meet or kill before you they offer to join. Final Fantasy has them pre arranged. You choose your sex in Baldurs gate. Your sex and who you fall in love with are pre-arranged in final fantasy.

    Then again the very western game Planescape Torment had a small number of party members wich you interacted with strongly and strong story with relativly few subquests. It is widely thought by pc users to be the best rpg ever. Perhaps a happy hybrid could emerge.

    So I think for this at least pc and console can exist happily together as long as developers take care to tune the game to the different platforms. So USE the keyboard. USE the HD for easy saving. USE the bloody mouse, yes I am talking to you Final Fantasy. Kotor did it pretty well although the interface graphics were a bit large for a pc monitor. No need for inch tall text thank you very much.

    I have no idea what is needed to make a game work on a console as I am a pc snob.

    • Size of the interface graphics depends only on the resolution you are using.

      On my 21" CRT in 1600x1200 the interface is quite small and unobtrusive.

    • it's not East vs West (Score:5, Interesting)

      by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @09:25AM (#7961770)
      not entirely anyhow. Eastern-styled RPGs have been largely console-centric since the days of the Famicom. So this is more directly about the growth in popularity of western-styled RPGs on the consoles.

      I think the main cause of the popularity explosion is developers are finally finding the western-styled rpg market in the console arena. They're learning that you can sell console players Morrowind and Knights of the Old Republic.

      The only reason that these rpgs weren't on consoles in the past has been storage. Consoles prior to this generation didn't have enough storage to handle the content without having to switch a multitude of discs, something the average player does not want to do. Nor did they have appropriate storage for the massive save-game sizes western RPGs are known to generate.

      Now however, that roadblock is gone (at least for the xbox this generation, and probably all systems in the next). It is only natural that RPG developers, the guys who always cared about story over all else, are gravitating toward the platform that lets them concentrate even more on story, and not worry about minimum system requirements, or compatibility.

      RPGs on the PC will survive this turn in popularity like all other PC-gaming genres, sports, shooters, et al. They'll shrink in market share, but remain. I don't think PC gaming will ever die, just as mac gaming has never died. But it certainly will lose the edge it has held in the past.

      with PCs losing their last vestiges of hardware advantage over consoles (namely harddrives and network adapters), there is less and less justification for publishers to ignore the console market under some illusion of console-gamer predisposition to action.
      • I don't think PC gaming will ever die, just as mac gaming has never died.

        I'm sorry but that scares the hell out of me. Mac gaming is not dead, but it has been on life support for about a decade. The occasional first person shooter or Blizzard game does NOT qualify as alive.

        I TRULY fear the day that PC gaming becmes like mac gaming.
        • I'm sure that this doesn't appeal to most folks -- there are far fewer graphics and sound effects than mainstrain commercial, but the Mac has enjoyed some of the best independently-produced open-ended RPGs in existence, thanks to the prolific efforts of Jeff Vogel at Spiderweb Software [spidweb.com]. He writes all the game text himself, in addition to doing the coding and game design. I doubt this post will convert many folks that haven't already played Spiderweb games, but particularly among Mac gamers, Vogel games (t
          • The Escape Velocity series contains some of the best shareware games I've played, and they've made other good games outside of that. Unfortunately for the Mac, both Ambrosia and Spiderweb are porting games to the PC now (Spiderweb's been doing it for a long time, Ambrosia only recently).

            Rob

      • Re:it's not East vs West (Score:4, Insightful)

        by DarkFencer ( 260473 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @11:26AM (#7962619)
        Though hard drives and network adapters have long been PC advantages, those aren't what I think consoles need before I will take them over PC gaming:

        1) Wide spread High Definition TV ownership in the home, and support for this on consoles. Could you imagine playing a strategy game on a TV compared to on a monitor? The same goes for many RPGs and FPPs in my opinion

        2) Availability AND use of keyboards and mouse on Consoles. I don't mean just having them available as an option for a game. I mean games that are designed for them from the start and require their use.

        3) Developers that will take a chance on making a game that MAY not be a huge seller on a console, but may be for a niche market. This is rare with console developers (but is sadly becoming rarer wih PC developers as well).

        Get these three and maybe I won't miss my PC gaming. Don't get it, and I'll stick it out on the PC, and still avoid the consoles (at least until they drop to $100 per machine).
        • If I only had mod points to mod this +1 Insightful. Right on the money. GUI and sales are the biggest obstacles to making RPGs accessible to consoles. Even taking a "simple" RPG like Ultima or Wizardry (which have been done) isn't easy trying to cram all the keyboard commands and information on the screen.

          Taking a modern PC RPG and porting it towards a console is an undertaking. Inventory is a chore, forget spellcasting and conversation trees become impossible. Can it be done? Yeah, but not easily.

          T

          • I don't think that you're ever going to see the mouse as a standard part of a console. But a company that releases a line of RPGs or strategy games or first person shooters might be wise to develop, brand, and package a mouse that can come with their line of games. It's a great advertising mechanism. I know a lot of people who now know the company Logitech because of the USB headsets that are sold for the PS2. And from what I've seen, Logitech doesn't have any competition on this front.

            I think a company wou

            • It's interesting that companies like Mad Catz or another third company could make something like this. Could it be that some sort of game is needed to launch a mouse in the console world? Similar to how SOCOM launched the headset for PS2 or X-Box Live; a killer game could be what's needed. That game could easily be Warcraft III or even Age of Empires (porting issues aside).

              It sorta bugs that the Eye Toy can sell (argh... it's like karoke gaming) and something like a mouse hasn't happened yet.

          • imo no game interface 'needs' any particular peripheral.

            some games likely do better with a keyboard and mouse, simply because they have more, accessible keys for binding and various use. Real-time strategy games and realistic vehicle sims accentuate the usefulness of the keyboard -- no other genre does.

            quite frankly i've seen more PC games with bad user interfaces than console games. Having that many buttons available is generally an invitation for disaster. For an RPG, where twitch is not necessary, ha
            • Final Fantasy XI is a great example of an RPG that really shows its roots in the controls. I picked it up the day it came out and immediately started beating my head against some really irritating playcontrol the first time I took it online.

              Then I turned on joystick controls and hooked up a PS2 controller via my PSX->USB adaptor. Suddenly it was playable again! The game was REALLY designed around a joypad, though the PS2 version (much like UT for PS2) supports a mouse and keyboard if you hook them up to
        • 3) Developers that will take a chance on making a game that MAY not be a huge seller on a console, but may be for a niche market. This is rare with console developers (but is sadly becoming rarer wih PC developers as well)

          Bzzt! Ever heard of Nippon Ichi, who has made most of their bread and butter making hardcore strategy RPGS? There are more, but I expect most of them are Japanese.
          • Since when are Strategy RPGs taking a chance? Final Fantasy Tactics, Ogre Battle, and a host of others all sold well.

            Not to mention, did this title you mention make it to the US/Europe? Japanese developers DO take more risks when releasing for Japan, but will RARELY do so when bringing it to non-Japanese markets.
        • 3) Developers that will take a chance on making a game that MAY not be a huge seller on a console, but may be for a niche market. This is rare with console developers (but is sadly becoming rarer wih PC developers as well).
          No offense, but you have NO idea what you are talking about with consoles. The biggest console(s) of every generation feature plenty of risky niche games. Just look at how many 'new' genres created in the last five or so years were made for consoles vs. PCs - it is pretty much a landslid

      • With regard to Knights of the Old Republic breaking new ground (I don't count Morrowind as it doesn't have anywhere as much buzz KotOR seems to have from what I can tell), I think it is a bit early to decide that Western RPGs are seeing a rise in interest. Is it the quality of KotOR that is drawing the console crowd or is it the "Star Wars" branding? We'll find out when Bioware releases their X-Box exclusive game, Jade Empire.

        I don't think RPG developers are moving to consoles because there's a burgeoning

      • The only reason that these rpgs weren't on consoles in the past has been storage. Consoles prior to this generation didn't have enough storage to handle the content without having to switch a multitude of discs, something the average player does not want to do.

        Size of famous PC RPG "Morrowind": 1 CD.
        Size of famous PC RPG "Neverwinter Nights": 3 CDs.
        Size of famous console RPG "Final Fantasy 7": 3 CDs.
        Size of famous console RPG "Final Fantasy 8": 4 CDs.
        • That's slightly misleading. How much of the console CDs were taken up by huge pre-rendered cutscenes? That's just an expected feature of Final Fantasy games. Huge ten to twenty minute MPG movies. Throw in the pre-rendered backgrounds and you have three or four CDs easy. The actual engine and levels could easily fit onto one CD.

          Contrast that with the PC RPG dics you listed and you'll find most of the dics are taken up with engine, content, textures and sound. The level of graphical detail and speech d

      • Re:it's not East vs West (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Lightwarrior ( 73124 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @12:18PM (#7963180) Journal
        > with PCs losing their last vestiges of hardware advantage over consoles (namely harddrives and network adapters), there is less and less justification for publishers to ignore the console market under some illusion of console-gamer predisposition to action.

        1) PCs are capable of displaying graphics several magnitudes better than a console. 1600x1200 in 32bit color with 16xAF and 8xAA vs. 480 interlaced (only displaying 240 lines). HDTV can display higher resolutions (notably 480p, 720p, and 1080i), but the only console that supports 720p is the Xbox, and its hardware isn't powerful enough to handle it for most games. Also, there is no HDTV standard, and since it doesn't look like HD will make the jump anytime soon, it will be a very long time before consoles can catch up to the PC in graphic quality.

        2) Player made content. Please note that Counter Strike, possibly the most popular game ever (second only to Starcraft), is a player made module. Unless Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo decide to include developer kits along with their consoles (and developers decide to support player made content), this gigantic draw will remain on the PC.

        The first two are *fact*. The third is my opinion.

        3) I cannot abide console controls for certain genres - namely, First-person Shooters and Real-time Strategy games. They do not provide for the same level of precision as a mouse o trackball. I am aware that such devices are or could become available for consoles, but then you have the issue of what to put them on. Put yourself behind a desk, and now you're playing on a low-end PC with bad graphics and no potential for player-made content.

        Those who predict that the days of the PC RPG are coming to an end seem to be unable to recognize Morrowind, NWN, MMOGs, and a host of other excellent titles that debuted last year. This argument comes and goes, but I've seen neither PCs nor consoles permanently decline in popularity.

        -lw

        • Re:it's not East vs West (Score:4, Interesting)

          by *weasel ( 174362 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:30PM (#7964958)
          1. I agree completely: display resolution is the absolute last built-in advantage that PCs have. They will always have the de facto performance crown, certainly. Still, it's certain that the next generation will have the horsepower to drive a great picture at 1080i and 720p. This advantage is one that won't be held for very long, imo (if at all past the next hardware generation).

          2. player-made content is huge, I'll grant you that. but it can be done, particularly with the harddrives and network access. true, a publisher still has to decide to do it, but it is not an option that must be taken off the shelf if a developer decides to develop for the console.

          3. the controls for a RTS simply don't work on a controller. I'll grant you that. Goblin Commander for the xbox has a pretty interesting approach that works fairly well, but it would break down long before you got to managing the number of units that *craft games handle easily.

          I do however disagree with your FPS control opinion. I was a strict PC FPS fan for quite some time. But I bought an xbox (initially for mod-potential, but lo and behold: it's got worthwhile games too).

          And frankly, I hated the controls as I played Halo for about the first 4 hours. Of course it's not as 'precise' as a mouse or trackball, but i'm starting to wonder whether that matters? Varying display sizes and varying polling-rates on PC FPS create some of the biggest discrepancies with player potential in those games. Yes, you will hit your target more often with mouse+kb. But if you can do well enough with a controller, and the playing field is level, does it really matter?

          Clearly personal preference keeps many PC FPS fans from ever considering the console, and I'd never consider any opinion or preference 'wrong' -- but I don't think the control scheme for console FPS is deficient in any manner.

          the RPG market overall is certainly growing - but of considerable interest is the way the console market for western-styled RPGs ballooned this past year.

          As I said, I doubt any gaming market will die (i predict no 'end' for anything) and indeed due market growth overall I think they'll probably all continue to expand.

          But I do believe the rate of expansion, and the total market size will be shifted in favor of console RPGs rather than PC RPGs in the coming years.
          • 1) The trend tends to give the graphics edge (from a subjective standpoint instead of an "absolute" one) to the consoles for their release... but that's the other problem with consoles. As better graphics cards are released for the PC/Mac, the consoles again lag behind.

            Unfortunately, I can't see that trend continuing with display (unless console manufacturers decide that the majority of their audience has access to HD TV) - without higher resolutions, increasing graphics detail eventually becomes moot. T
            • western style PC RPGS won't decline in popularity. not by totals anyway. i believe that due to growth in gaming overall they'll likely always be in a growing market (barring dry spells like the early 90s).

              But I believe that western-style RPGs will grow much faster on the console than they will on the PC, and they will eventually (relatively soon) eclipse the PC market as the preferred platform.

              Excepting, of course, games that already thrive on player-made content. Which, while technically possible, I conc
              • > The console market being much larger
                Do you mean combined - as in, all three major consoles vs. PC? Because once developers start an Xbox version, it is extremely likely that they'll go the extra step to the PC.

                Note that the two most popular games on the Xbox - Halo and KotOR - were intended to be PC releases, and were shanghaied by M$ft.

                If you're talking about any single console having a larger market that the PC - well, I just don't believe it and you'll have to provide numbers =)

                But those single
                • yeah, i was referring to all consoles combined. granted i think the reason that the two biggest name western-styled rpgs are on the xbox is because of the harddrive, but i digress.

                  and the point of not simply automatically adding a pc port, is that (i believe) the PC will be an increasingly small slice of the overall market, and (its been proven) the costs for compatibility testing, performance testing and support are orders of magnitude higher.

                  naturally all the super-popular games will get ported to as ma
        • ...the only console that supports 720p is the Xbox, and its hardware isn't powerful enough to handle it for most games.

          Not true!
          From the FAQ at the Linux for Playstation 2 community website [playstation2-linux.com]
          Which Display Resolutions are supported ?

          * NTSC/PAL interlaced and non-interlaced
          * DTV 480P, 720P and 1080I modes
          * VESA modes 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024 at 60/75 Hz ...It's only a matter of choosing the right cabels and having developers write the software, PS2 is physically capable of doin
      • The only reason that these rpgs weren't on consoles in the past has been storage. Consoles prior to this generation didn't have enough storage to handle the content without having to switch a multitude of discs, something the average player does not want to do. Nor did they have appropriate storage for the massive save-game sizes western RPGs are known to generate.

        I don't buy that, because "Western" RPGs were being made back on the Apple II and Commodore 64 -- Ultimas 1-5, the Wizardry series, SunDog, El
        • In order to solve this problem, you have to look at the game which started the console RPG subgenre: Dragon Warrior.

          Dragon Warrior became the most popular video game in the world after it came out. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a lot of console developers wanted to capitalize on this success, so they made games that were similar to Dragon Warrior in scope, like Final Fantasy.

          And so it has been for over 15 years. Therefore, the question is not why console RPGs are different from
          • So, in conclusion, you're both right. The console RPG started out different from the computer RPG because of technological issues, but now-a-days stays different because of tradition. Of course, that tradition seems to be weakening, and to good effect...

            Excellent points!

    • Re:PC vs RPG consoles? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Washizu ( 220337 ) <(bengarvey) (at) (comcast.net)> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @10:53AM (#7962359) Homepage
      "Then again the very western game Planescape Torment had a small number of party members wich you interacted with strongly and strong story with relativly few subquests. It is widely thought by pc users to be the best rpg ever. Perhaps a happy hybrid could emerge."

      In Torment there were a lot of choices you could make for your character, including his class (fighter, mage, theif), which you could change during the course of the game. You could also join one of the many factions which brought along its advantages and disadvantages.

      Although the core of your party is primarily the same, there are a few characters that if brought in (or not brought it) can greatly affect the outcome near the end of the game.

      It's not as open ended as Baldur's Gate, but I really think it's the hybrid you're looking for.

      I probably would rate it as the best PC RPG I've ever played, followed by Baldur's Gate (I and II) and Darklands.

      • I also think that it was the focus not on combat and leveling that made the game so different. Rather than concentrating on wacking as many monsters as possible, the focus was always on finding out your origins and the relationships you had with the people in your party. It's what a Final Fantasy game could be with out chocobos and mentioning Gaia every five minutes.
        • " I also think that it was the focus not on combat and leveling that made the game so different."

          Exactly. There were times I was actually itching to fight in Torment. In Baldur's Gate it's more annoying than anything.

  • Elder Scrolls! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by obeythefist ( 719316 )
    One of the greatest elements of PC roleplaying that I am yet to see grace a console is a vast, open-ended explorable world.

    I know it was mentioned earlier that consoles favour the eastern style linear plotline and story elements, and yes, PC's don't, but this is because the PC is a very powerful instrument.

    With vast amounts of memory and storage space, larger and more intricate virtual worlds can be created.

    Take Morrowind for example. The world design was so intricate that you could walk into just about
    • Err dude, Morrowind was on the XBOX as well.
    • Elder Scrolls was good, yes, but it didn't do what I'm still looking for in a game (console or PC): capture the feel of pen-and-paper RPGing.

      I know it's virtually impossible - there's no way to simulate a real DM in a computer. MMORPG could do it, but they have a massiveness that is difficult to get in to once the game has been launched. Neverwinter Nights had the promise, but it sadly turned out to be just another RPG on a pc. (Ok, I haven't played it with a DM yet, so that might be different)

      I'm waiting f

    • Re:Elder Scrolls! (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bugbread ( 599172 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:23AM (#7961039)
      As Morrowind is an XBox Platinum Hit game, I'll take it this was an attempt at trolling?
      • I know about ten people who have Morrowind for XBox, and about ten who have it for PC. I know about ten people who like it. Guess which ones.
        • Converse accident logical fallacy. By the same token, I know 3 people who own and like Morrowind on the XBox. I know none who own it on for the PC. Therefore, Morrowind is far more popular among XBox owners than PC owners.

          The reality is that Morrowind on the XBox sold enough copies to be rereleased as part of the Platinum Hits series, and sold enough that the expansions were released with the original game as the Morrowind Game of The Year version. Whether the people around you like it or not bears li
          • I just want to make it clear that I don't have any kind of disrespect for console gamers. Many of my favorite games are on consoles. But the fact is that console games, in general and overall, deliver far less depth than PC games do. Again, not a bad thing, I can enjoy even the most meatminded slugfest if it's executed well and I'm in the mood for it.
            • Ah, to this I can agree. Consoles do indeed have a propensity for shallowness. That isn't to say that all of them are shallow, but there is a definite tilt. I would venture to say, though, that the deeper games are starting to come out as the line between PC gamer and console gamer is becoming blurred. Now I'm the one arguing with unrepresentative groups, but I have seen several people around me go from PC to console due to being ground down by the upgrade cycle. If this trend continues, I would not be
        • Count me in the latter group, I didn't ever buy it for the PC, but just got it for the X-Box, and I really like it. There are somethings that would be easier on the pc, (typing, hotkey spells/weapons) and somethings that I prefer on the console (moving, ease of use, price and availability $20 bucks everywhere) Seems like the X-Box would be a good console to bring more crossover games like this over to since porting is easy. The hardest part would be creating an interface that is limited to 8 buttons and t
    • Then, after finishing all the quests, you are almost elevated to a God status! I can't think of many console gamers who'd even be interested in such a grand endeavour. PC gamers, yes, of course. Console gamers are not interested in investing so much time into a game, perhaps this is why open-endedness is not popular with consoles.

      What kind of console players have you been hanging around? Moreover, what kind of console games have you played? Do you realize that most console RPGs allow you to "become a go
    • ah wait. I bought it in 2002. Sorry about the confusion; I was playing it just yesterday... ;)

  • Lesser Consoles? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cyhwuhx ( 594396 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @07:00AM (#7961295) Homepage
    .::: Did the writer only play Shadow Madness or something just as dire on consoles?

    True, Baldur's Gate - Dark Alliance was just plain dumb in comparison with it's PC-counterparts (though still highly enjoyable and a good game in it's own right). But console players do not need to be exposed to the "deeper intricacies of RPG game play". As if the Final Fantasy's, Xenogears, Suikoden's, Dark Chronicle (Dark Cloud 2 US), and even Mario & Luigi - Superstar Saga didn't provide proper RPG gameplay.

    Both PCs and consoles have brilliant RPGs in their own right. Planescape: Torment and Final Fantasy VI both stick out for me. The different approaches both use are wonderful. Why would you ever want to get rid of one side of it? Unfortunately I'm not a Star Wars-fan, but what I've picked up about KOTOR seems to imply it's one of those RPGs which uses a blend of PC- and console-RPG styles.

    Isn't that to be celebrated instead of critisized?
    • Baldur's Gate - Dark Alliance was just plain dumb in comparison with it's PC-counterparts (though still highly enjoyable and a good game in it's own right).

      I actually enjoyed it more. But I consider it a dungeon crawl, pure and simple.

      What most impressed me is that they managed to get a game which made extensive use of the keyboard on a PC and left the controls lacking nothing on the console port. It was a dream to control and a lot of fun to play.

      PC RPGs still have more depth to gameplay, character c

  • Dungeon Crawls... And Then Some (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Umgawa71 ( 739459 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @09:32AM (#7961821) Homepage
    The inherent goodness about PC-based RPG's is that the developers continue to lay the ultimate fate of the game's longevity in the hands of its players, with reference to the mod community. After all, consoles aren't going to start handing out SDK's or development tools for modding anytime soon, and probably never will; thus all attempts at extensibility will have to be created by the developer, which -as we've seen with MechAssault- will likely carry with it an extra charge. However, as far as the PC community goes, the ability to mod a particular game is a selling point for both the player and would-be modder. Case in point: Neverwinter Nights had two strategy guides out at the time of its release. One, we'll call it the Player's Handbook, in that it was just basically a walkthrough for the as-packaged game. The other one could be referred to as the Dungeon Master's Guide, essentially spelling out how someone could develop a scenario, if not an entire module. While Morrowind certainly has an active mod community, I don't believe I've seen any other games ship with such an obvious (and well-publicized) push for community involvement as happened with Neverwinter Nights. Of course, then again, I also think they were hoping to create an enormous network of persistent linked servers, run by players, in hopes of creating some variety as a free alternative to the monthly-fee of Massively Mundane -er, Multiplayer- RPG's. Unfortunately, that lofty goal never quite panned out. I, for one, cranked through Knights of the Old Republic on the Xbox within three days of getting the game and I appear to be the only person on earth who was left wanting. In about thirty hours of game-time (yes, I know what that breaks down to), I finished the majority of the side-quests, spent another few hours to see the other ending, and it's a nice and compelling game all around, but after it was done, there was nothing left to do, and -given that Bioware created Neverwinter Nights- how I wanted some extra content.
    • "I, for one, cranked through Knights of the Old Republic on the Xbox within three days of getting the game and I appear to be the only person on earth who was left wanting."

      Don't worry, you're not the only one. We're just not as vocal as the fans of the game.
    • Okay, there were supposed to be line breaks in that, but I hit Submit instead of Preview, then realized that it was HTML formatted instead of plaintext, so please excuse the utter lack of readability in what would've been an otherwise coherent post.

    • Don't forget the other major two attractors for the PC over the console:

      1. Patches: If a PC game ships buggy (and they do), the developer can release a patch to keep the fans happy. If a console game ships buggy (and they do), the fans are alienated forever
      2. Expansion Packs: For a fraction of the original development cost a developer can release an Expansion Pack (essentially a patch you have to pay for) and hit all the fans of the game for more money, which they are willing to give!
  • I have a saying for articles like this: "Know where you are on the bell curve." The corollary is, of course, "Know where everyone else is, too."

    If PCRPG fanatics comprised just one percent of the US population, that would still be more than 2 million people. I suspect it's probably less than that, but not by much.
  • In a nutshell, PC RPGs are not even PC RPGs anymore. They've strayed so far from the roots that it's not even funny. All games are either Diablo like hack-and-slashers, or try some sort of hybrid real-time battle system which ends up being a mess. (It's a real shame that Bioware can't put together a half-decent battle system).

    If you want a classic style RPG, you're actually better off playing on a console. Like the old Gold-box games? Play Final Fantasy Tactics Advance or Disgaea. Like Wizardry? (Actually
    • Tell me Planescape Torment, Fallout or Baldur's Gate 2 aren't great RPGs.

      Or do you think they HAVE to be dungeon crawls? Is Pool of Radiance (the original) a better RPG than Baldur's Gate 2? If you think so, end of conversation...

      • As a matter of fact..

        I actually didn't like Pool of Radiance all that much. Now Cure of the Azure Bonds I loved. And yes, they are better RPGs than BG 2.

        I just don't like that style of combat. I like it more strategic than tactical.

    • Re:RPGs (Score:2, Interesting)

      by DavidKirkEvans ( 147595 )

      Like Wizardry? (Actually, that one is pretty much dead. You don't see any dungeon crawlers anymore).

      Wizardry: Tale of the Forsaken Land [gamefaqs.com] for the PlayStation 2 was an absolutely excellent old-school (I can create my ENTIRE 6-character party however I like) dungeon-crawl. I absolutely loved it.

      Even PC RPGs lately have been getting away from the multi-character stats-based games that I loved as a kid. The old TSR gold box games, Bard's Tales, and especially Wasteland. Anyone who thinks that it beg

      • Never noticed that one. I saw it on the rental shelf, assumed it was a Faux-Wizardry. Just a same-name game. Will have to check it out. That's the point. For me, the PC RPG is a stat-heavy strategy fest. They just don't make too many of them anymore. The Bard's Tales were great, same with Wizardry (Although I'll be honest. I much preferred the NES and SNES versions of those games..they were a bit more playable IMO.)
    • If you like RPGs, there's only one platform you should be playing on.. the gameboy advance. More RPGs than you can shake a stick at.. and I can shake my share of sticks.

  • PC - RPG versus MMORPG? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ggwood ( 70369 )
    I would think the PC RPG is in trouble more from the highly successful PC-MMORPG than from consoles. Further, I would imagine the console RPG's will decline when MMORPG's get more penetration into the console market - and this won't really happen until they get keyboards (thus further bluring the line between console and PC).

    I speak from personal experience. Both my wife and I played PC RPG's (yes, even before we met) and once we tried MMORPG's there is really no going back. We have tried: we both own N

  • Ha! (Score:1)

    by WWWWolf ( 2428 )

    Lest we forget: Try the PC version of Ultima VII. Then try the SNES version of the same. Even if it were a state of the art port, the experience was never quite the same. =)

    I don't think consoles will take over the PC RPGs. They're trying, but PCs still handle stuff more elegantly - especially the modding. Did the X-Box version of Morrowind ship with TES Construction Set? Guess not... and one of the reasons I have enjoyed Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights so much is the moddability.

    And besides: Where's m

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