Memory Deal Bolsters Xbox 2 HD Removal Rumors 276
friedknut writes "According to a CNET News article: 'Flash memory maker M-Systems announced on Wednesday that it has signed a contract to provide storage products for future versions of the Xbox, bolstering speculation that Microsoft may ditch the game console's hard drive', since the flash-based memory devices will 'be of significantly higher capacity than the 8MB Xbox memory units Microsoft currently sells to save game and user data.' But of course, Microsoft representatives declined to comment on the company's plan for next-generation Xbox hardware."
Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
"The hard drive became a liability in relation to those units that were hacked," Doherty said.
Seems like they are willing to go further to stop the modding of the x-boxes. IIRC, Microsoft didn't make any money on the x-box itself, but wanted to make that up selling enough games. I have a couple of friends which have switched the standard hard drive in an x-box with one having 120gb disk space (I understand it's even possible to have more). This will perhaps make this kind of hack more difficult. Though I am fairly sure the x-box 2 will also be modded fairly easy.
Re2: Wow. (Score:5, Interesting)
A compactflash card in TrueIDE mode behaves nearly the same as a real IDE disk. The timings are a bit different, and the IDE disk requires more power (external source needed?). Other than that, a simple adapter would do the trick.
Re:Re2: Wow. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Re2: Wow. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
We're now coming upto stage2 of the plan. Now microsoft have proved themselves as a serious player in the console market and gained some experience, they can look forward to the future. They're creating something that will be more of a traditional closed-architecture console in many ways and far far less of a pc-in-a-box. They'll have more control over the platform, less hackability and although through the original Xbox they've got a lot of users and developers on-side, they may have to prove themselves over again.
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
Experience in the console market doesn't seem to lead to less hackable consoles... I don't see a console on the market that hasn't been hacked to shreds... So looking at Sony/Sega/Nintendo with their wealth of experience on the console market (Heck between all 2 they owned the Console markets almost as long as Microsoft has had a strangle hold on the desktop market) yet their consoles have been hacked to shreds...
Sony on the other hand seems to foster this
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure that would be the optical drive. Every Xbox failure I've ever heard of or read about is a failure of the DVD drive. The hard drives seem to do just fine -- as they should, since a console is only run maybe two hours most days while lots of PCs are on year-round.
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Wow. (Score:4, Insightful)
swap space isn't quite as plausible with flash memory due the relatively low rewrite lifespan (compared to disk). of course, not many developers actually took advantage of the HD for preload swap as it was. But it does call into question whether backwards compatbility with games that do use the disk for swap will 'burn' the flash storage in the neXtBox extra fast.
As for anti-piracy... I'm sure they just consider that a tangential benefit at best. They're not blind -- the GC, PS2 or DC didn't have hard drives and they were all hacked in short order.
Almost certainly they were just trying to figure out how to remove the hard drive to save money on unit pricing. At least a big flash module keeps backwards compatibility plausible.
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Furthermore, Microsoft has basically stated there will be no hard drive, unless Sony puts a HD in the PS3.
PVR does sound like a killer dual-functionality that would move 10s of millions of units, as DVD playback did for the PS2. However, if Sony doesn't try to do PVR in the PS3, then that functionality wouldn't be required to beat be competitive. So again, it's all a matter of necessary cost.
IMO, if MS does a PVR/neXtBox - it'll be a seperate product, akin to Sony's PSX. That way they won't lose marketshare by having a unit too expensive for those who just want 'a console'. As a bonus, if they release it after the vanilla console, they may be able to sell this second unit to those who desperately want PVR, and wouldn't mind a second neXtBox for LAN gaming.
BTW: M$ is only as funny as $ony. And neither is very funny.
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Interesting)
Granted, having the system able to run programs off the HDD makes it somewhat easier for pirates; a modded XBox with a hacked BIOS allows you to copy an arbitrary number of games to the HDD and play directly off it, but I can't see them crippling the performance of the machine in such a significant manner (and we can rule out using flash memory as a cache, since that would result in heavily used XBoxen flat-out dying after a few years).
Re:Wow. (Score:2)
Reducing load times on a console is great, but I think gamers see other primary uses of the hdd too. Without a hdd, where will we store our downloadable content and ripped soundtracks? I assume Xbox2 just won't have either feature...
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wow. (Score:5, Insightful)
Without memory card, savegames are tied to console (Score:3, Interesting)
A few hundred megs of storage memory and you've basically eliminated the need for memory cards for the average game player
Without a memory card, your savegame is tied to one console. If it dies, your savegames die with it. You can't take the savegame to somebody else's house unless you lug the whole console, and given the size of the first Xbox...
If you claim that Microsoft will rely on a broadband connection for moving savegames from one newbox to another, remember that not every town in the United
Re:Wow. (Score:2)
though why they wouldn't be able to make the flash portable is beyond me..
but if they make the flash big enough to be used like the hd in the current xbox(cache, mods, patches & etc..) it's going to get way too expensive.
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Insightful)
Not so brilliant for Microsoft. Memory cards have made quite a lot a money for Sony.
great! (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Xbox 2 hack (Score:5, Interesting)
Exploit a vulnerability in the app (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the BIOS won't directly, but some game for the newbox might have a buffer overflow that allows code in a savegame to take control of the hardware, just as with 007: Agent Under Fire and MechAssault for Xbox.
This will change nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
This feature demands a hard drive as flash memory, while getting cheaper, does not have the amount of memory avaliable for 100+ songs for as cheap as a hard drive.
That said, I think we will see larger memory cards as saves get bigger, also I hope to see them drop in price.
Above all else, remember that no console has removed major hardware functionality yet.
NES->SNES->N64->GC was all upgrades, each having more features than before
GB->GBP->GBC->GBA->GBA-SP Same deal
PS1->PS2
Dreamcast-> damn you for going under. We loved you.
I look forward to the xbox 2, and while I may not be a person to preorder it, or even get it within 6 months of release, it is on my list of things to get.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Informative)
Do you have any source to back that up ? All of my friends who bought x-boxes got it modded and inserted a bigger hard-drive, not buying a single game for it. As I've mentioned in a previous post today, MS doesn't make money of the x-box sale itself. I seriously doubt that ripping cd's onto a harddrive and using it in your game is a huge reason people have for buying an x-box. I could be wrong though.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:3, Informative)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Interesting)
Not true. At all.
Almost certainly, this feature will be kept, but simply moved onto your network instead. You will instead rip MP3s or WMAs onto your Windows PC and then share the folders over your wired or wireless LAN. Your X-Box will access your music files over the network.
And, it turns out, this makes considerably more sense than the current hard drive solution: What is the point of keeping separate MP3 collections on your PC and on your X-Box?
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
The big difference between the model with the hard disk and the model without is whether or not you use it as your media centre, not the add-ons in games - the "with hard disk" one could be a PVR, music centre, etc. Basically, I would expect MS to release a version of the XBox 2 which included XP Media Centre (or some variant thereof). Such a device would be great for those who wanted an all in one box, but would be too expensive for those who only wanted games.
Only speculation, but it makes sense to me...
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
People don't want to spend more money on a console which has the same game-playing ability but also has features (such as PVR) which either they're not interested in or already have in another form.
That's a broken metaphor. (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, the GameBoy Player is designed to be a GBA via GCN. It doesn't support Super Gameboy borders at all, neither does the real GBA or GBA SP, or GBC. Despite the fact that the borders are a legit part of the Super Gameboy standard (and on quick a few games, such as DW1&2 and Donkey Kong).
Manufacturers will put whatever features they want into video game systems. It's just that most of those features continue to make sense for years, which is why they're added as a bullet point to the next superset system.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2)
You bill it as the abaility to write CD(a first for a console). The actual process requires that you save the music to the flash then you can record from the flash to the CDR.
Price wise you would probably still come out ahead with not having to deal with the Hard drive, and the few dollars extra cost for the CD-R vs a standard read only CD would not be that much.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:3, Insightful)
MS -> MD (-> MDCD) -> Dreamcast
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2)
Re:This will change nothing (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, I'm not so sure that they'd double up like that. Seems particularly cost inefficient. And most normal X-Box users just play the games, and don't to all sorts of "special features," like adding music, or "uber-hacking," like changing HDs, on it, so they'll buy what ever MS shoves down their throats.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Insightful)
Some XBox games no doubt assume the HD is present because that's what the design specs allowed them to do at the time, and therefore use it in a way that'd crash the game if the HD wasn't there. Unless games were severely limited in how much HD swap space they could have, then the flash solution is going to end up being about as big as the HD... or they're going to have to admit that the XBox2 can't play XBox games. Once backward compatiblity breaks, console designers usually smash it with other changes, and the whole game library has to start over.
So, unless we see flash memory that's going to act a lot like an HD, XBox2 is going to look nothing like the XBox.
Re:This will change nothing (Score:5, Informative)
So unless they wish to add a hell of a lot more memory (this stuff doesn't actually need to be flash, however) then backwards compatibility is broken.
However, an XBox 2 with 2Gb of real memory would be fun to work with, I guess.
Bullshit. (Score:3, Interesting)
I call BULLSHIT!
Halo doesn't let you play ripped music.
Crimson Skies doesn't let you play ripped music.
These are the first two top-rated games that came to mind - and they don't let you play ripped music. I have never ripped music to my Xbox, I saw it as a minor novelty that I lost interest in 5 seconds after I saw it.
remember that no console has removed major hardware functi
Re:This will change nothing (Score:4, Funny)
I quite like the idea of using an iPod to store Linux for the X-Box 2!
Re:This will change nothing (Score:2)
Bad example. One word: HEADPHONES.
Downgrades (Score:4, Informative)
remember that no console has removed major hardware functionality yet.
You mean like these?
And a couple minor ones:
Re:Downgrades (Score:3, Informative)
The PSOne didn't do that - The PlayStation itself lost that port over time. It also used to have a parallel port, but they killed that off as well (in the 700x series, IIRC). Both were used for cheat devices which led to bootleg accessories.
Hell - The very first release of the PlayStation didn't even have a special A/V cable - it had RCA jacks on the back of the unit itself
Always an upgrade? (Score:2)
"...Above all else, remember that no console has removed major hardware functionality yet..."
*Almost* true. I'm still pissed that my GBA SP needs an adapter for the headphones. Unlike the GB/GBA.
Yea, a large problem with removing the HDD is the backwards-compatibility issue. The NextBox is going to be *mostly* like the XBox, but not quite. This will be the first time in console history (if they maintain compatibility) that a console will be a 'sort of' upgrade. I look forward to seeing how MS pulls
you're nuts (Score:3, Interesting)
Your "removed major hardware functionality" list also seems suspect to me -- what about removing zero-load times of carts when nintendo moved to optical discs? Or having to buy memory cards when consoles dropped carts? Or getting scanlines when video games went to raster displays? And I still miss the Atari paddle controllers...
My point it, it seems like a matter of perspective. MS will just make you use a net
You have to wonder (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:You have to wonder (Score:2)
Re:You have to wonder (Score:2)
Mother-of-all-flash memory (Score:5, Insightful)
Goodbye to X-Box Convenience (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Goodbye to X-Box Convenience (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Goodbye to X-Box Convenience (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe, but given how cheap DVD burners have become, copying of DVD based game is rife. Only the Gamecube with its mini-discs has escaped so far. Unless, that is, unless MS is planning on making the X-Box 2 games available on demand only, downloaded from a central server when you want to play them.
Re:Goodbye to X-Box Convenience (Score:2)
Not likely. So much of the world still lacks access to braodband, and even then downloading a full DVD every time you want to play the game is not going to be popular with consumers.
Obvious, (Score:4, Funny)
Some benefits (Score:5, Insightful)
Flash is probably a better (and perhaps more secure?) format for use, if they go on like Nintendo and invent their own formats on existing 'hardware' (Cube discs). I hope that the write times aren't the same as with console memory cards nowadays if you need to store big amounts of data.
The hard drive will stay (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:The hard drive will stay (Score:3, Insightful)
EQOA uses a 3M (memory card) binary patch. It contains no graphics, no sounds, nothing but compressed binary. Because of this the developers really planned ahead. The play discs are full of unused graphics and stuff. In fact Ogres were on the first disc. The entire second expansion could have been made using the first disc.
EQOA is regularly updated, some of the updates being very big feature wise
Swap files (Score:4, Interesting)
Please forgive my ignorance, I've rarely played with an Xbox, but it appeared to me that games such as Halo use the Xbox HD to create swap files for faster loading of big arenas (my suspect comes from occasional slowdowns).
Is it the case? Could it be a problem for game manufacturers if the HD is replaced by some sort of Flash memory (which has limited rewrite capability and AFAIK is not indicated to host swap files/partitions)?
Re:Swap files (Score:2)
Hard drive? (Score:2, Funny)
I'd give it back to microsoft if they'd pay me 10bucks over shipping or maybe trade off the HD for the ability to play DVD's without haxoring or buying some 30 dollar damn remote
But my 160 gig drive in my current one is nice for the dorm FTP server
Some Xbox stats and ussage:
Cluster a bunch of gentoo installs, and have a Beowulf cluster
the xbox dosn't have the ability to read more than 137 gigs unless you hac
Ultimate TV (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ultimate TV (Score:2)
One of the reasons why the XBox supposedly has a hard drive installed is so that Microsoft could use it's failed Ultimate TV product to make an XBox that in addition to play games could also have DVR capabilites simply by dropping in a few extra chips and a bigger HD.
I know I'm hoping for them to do that (well, obviously with a much bigger hard drive). While I'd rather have a Tivo, getting similar functionality in an X-box is better than nothing (Tivo doesn't sell outside US, unfortunately... I'd buy
Not to be smart or anything... but (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a step in the right direction (Score:5, Interesting)
When Microsoft designed the Xbox they looked at the usual cost drop trends of game systems in the past. Usually console makers take a small loss on systems and then within a few years are able to make a profit on hardware. Unfortunately for Microsoft because of the complex nature of the Xbox this hasn't been the case. Costs for the Nforce GPU haven't changed and in fact Nviia sued trying to get out of their contract as they were loosing money producing the chips. The hard drives are also a big expense for Microsoft.
While Microsoft did not expect to be making money on the current generation of the Xbox, the system has greatly surpassed loss expectations thus far and if the Xbox 2 is not a financial success it may cause serious questions about the companies long term chances in the console race. Their plan was to get their foot in the door take some losses during the first generation and generate some support for their second generation system. Thus far many of the all important Japanese third party licensees are still disinterested and several have dropped Xbox support altogether after initially being "onboard". The system is a miserable failure in Japan and Asia in general and is in third place worldwide a ways back from the Nintendo Game Cube.
Microsoft needs to turn the ship around in generation 2 or else it may already be too late. By taking out the hard drive as widely rumored beforehand it will greatly reduce the manufacturing costs of the system. I see it as a positive move by Microsoft.
My only problem with XBox (1) (Score:5, Informative)
It's not the harddrive that makes all the noise, it's the fans. But why are the fans there? Because the XBox is hot. Why is it hot? Partially because of the harddrive.
So dropping the harddrive is nice; IF there is way to get the machine up and running something ala "XBox Media Player" [xboxmediaplayer.de]. My network and my computer would provide me with all the content I would ever need.
It would've been really neat if we could play games from the network too (legal copies of course), because gigabit ethernet provides all the bandwidth needed for such a task.
So to me, this might be good news
Re:My only problem with XBox (1) (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:My only problem with XBox (1) (Score:2, Informative)
Re:My only problem with XBox (1) (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder why (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I wonder why (Score:2)
Anal-yst (Score:5, Interesting)
The xbox2 may or may not have a hard drive. I believe that it will, for numerous reasons. But this is so obviously a deal to line up memory card tech that it's ridiculous. The analyst's description of what the hard drive is used for is absolutely naive and ill-informed.
Fact is, a lot of games use the hard drive. All don't but a lot do. Some you may have heard of, like Halo. I'd expect that the developers will continue to push for the ability to cache and stream off of the HD.
And lest we forget, the idea of backward compatibility goes straight out the window with no HD. We're not talking about obscure titles; we're talking Halo, DOA3, etc. Backward compatibility may or may not happen, but an analyst with any intelligence would have hit on this, and maybe started speculating out his ass about that. This guy wasn't even that clever.
Oh, and Live, the jewel in the crown of microsoft's console gaming experience so far, is extremely reliant on the hard drive. The downloads, the levels, etc., these are all huge selling points, great features, and they're just getting started. I believe that MS will try to make its major innovation push in the online arena, and the hard drive enables a lot. Without it, options are much more limited. I especially love the analysts who predict that online storage will replace the Hard drive. Do they have some insight into an unprecedented rollout of broadband technology that will make this actually reliable? Have they ever downloaded a level on Live, and thought about what it would be like to go through that every time you wanted to play the level? Obviously not.
And these people affect the flow of capital. Sheesh.
Re:Anal-yst (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony based decision (Score:3, Insightful)
The cost argument (Score:5, Interesting)
So here's what I'm hoping Microsoft do. They sell two models of X-Box 2, one with HD, one without. The one with costs $50 extra, but you can probably save that in memory cards.
On a seperate note, am I the only one here who didn't chip their X-Box? Everyone is complaining they won't be able to use it as their file server, or at least not copy games to the HD?
Re:The cost argument (Score:2)
They will not do this.
Last time I checked, MS was a "For-Profit" company. MS derives profit from these tiny little memory cards. They cost bugger all to manufacture. It's these little add-ons that make up for the loss they incur on each and every shiny new black and green xbox console sold. I guess you could draw an analogy
Remember the other rumours (Score:4, Interesting)
This means that XB2 won't play XB1 games unless MS writes an emulation layer. This would either be at hardware level (slow, awkward but possibly more reliable for some games) or API level (faster to execute, easier to write, some games may not follow the API properly and hence break).
Either way, the XBox1 game isn't being played on an XBox - it's being played on a simulated XBox. Why not simulate the hard drive at the same time as the CPU?
Re:Remember the other rumours (Score:2)
As for your other suggestion - how do you think t
Hard Drive not needed (Score:5, Insightful)
MS have come out and said they can't make XBox 1 profitable. There is a good chance they are going to try to reduce theirhardware costs with XB2 so that they can actually realise some good profits out of the XB console series. The harddrive is a large expense that could be considered expendable with without too much pain.
The HDD is an important point for compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)
However, backwards compatibility with the Xbox seems increasingly unlikely, because there are several issues and compromises:
- New CPU and incompatible ISA
- New GPU (again, with incompatible ISA, and don't start the stupid "DirectX API" thing here, I'm talking low-level pixel/vertex shader code and Nvidia's proprietary, probably heavily patented/copyrighted extensions)
- Keeping backwards compatibility could mean compatibility with some current Xbox hacks, like buffer overflows in some games and some BIOS stuff that could allow pirates to.dump "0 day" ROMs/ISOs immediately after the thing hits the market.
- The HDD has not proved to be a market advantage, in fact, it negatively affected Xbox sales in some markets (big, ugly, heavy, noisy consoles don't sell in Japan, vertical PS2 anyone?).
Yes, MS could put the resources forward to solve each and every issue, but after not earning a penny in one entire console generation, I think it'd be a wise decision not to include backwards compatibility.
Now, the benefits of throwing it out:
- Smaller, leaner, cheaper to make console
- Efficient, durable, reliable architecture
- Harder to hack
Basically, MS' strategy seems closer to what Nintendo did right with their current Gamecube console and the hard fact it's the only company capable of making a solid profit with minimum losses (in fact only ONE loss situation in their history). This is smarter than simply throwing money to push everyone else out of business.
If this means MS is taking a honest and technically efficient approach on their next console, I'm all for it. The current Xbox has some great games but it's never been interesting enough, neither from a technical standpoint nor as a game console.
Re:The HDD is an important point for compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Those guys are either too naive or don't seem to have followed the videogame industry long enough, here's some food for thought:
How would you like a $29.99 2-in-1 disc, containing a "remake" of Halo and Halo2, with "improved textures", 7.1 audio, ONE new level, ONE new vehicle and ONE new weapon? I bet you're already drooling =) Backwards compatibility? What's that?
Don't ever think MS or any other videogame publisher would refuse an opportunity to sell you the same game twice. (Resident Evil, Famicom Mini anyone?)
No HDD = no compatibility = no point to Xbox 1 (Score:5, Insightful)
MS just bought a Wintel emulator that runs on a PowerPC.
- New GPU (again, with incompatible ISA, and don't start the stupid "DirectX API" thing here, I'm talking low-level pixel/vertex shader code and Nvidia's proprietary, probably heavily patented/copyrighted extensions)
ATi have said this can likely be overcome, with shader recompilation most likely.
- Keeping backwards compatibility could mean compatibility with some current Xbox hacks, like buffer overflows in some games and some BIOS stuff that could allow pirates to.dump "0 day" ROMs/ISOs immediately after the thing hits the market.No chance. We're running under an emulator, remember? Anything that tries to step out of the sandbox gets killed immediately.
- The HDD has not proved to be a market advantage, in fact, it negatively affected Xbox sales in some markets (big, ugly, heavy, noisy consoles don't sell in Japan, vertical PS2 anyone?).
For every person that dislikes the extra size that comes from the HD, there's another that likes downloading content from Live, two that are grateful they don't have to buy extra flash cards, and a few more that like game features that use it (like faster loading, massive game saves, custom music tracks, game expansions [e.g as with DOA3] etc etc]. I would be willing to bet it'd be a net disadvantage, from polling the comments here. A better start to reducing size/noise/heat would be to take out the built-in PSU.The current Xbox has some great games but it's never been interesting enough, neither from a technical standpoint nor as a game console.
Funny, I usually hear that the other way around :-)
Basically, as people have pointed out, no HD effectively means no backwards compatibility. And no backwards compatibility means everything they spent on establishing the original Xbox is wasted.
What's the one thing they'll be left with, after Xbox1's life is over? Brand awareness? Well, mixed feelings at best from the console community. Confidence in MS's ability to succeed in the market? Likewise. Popular, exclusive gaming franchises? Not many at all. Experience? Well yeah, but that's a very expensive training exercise.
What they will have is a library of popular software (remember that the Xbox did very well in selling multiple games to each owner). Windows has succeeded mostly because of backwards compatibility - they can't afford to throw away their one big advantage, especially having seen how it helped the PS2. And they can't afford to port (and enhance) every game that people might want, nor would everyone be delighted to buy them a second time.
Maybe they'll have to sell a separate $70 "Compatibility expansion kit", with a HD & the emulator (and maybe a couple of new features too), but if they don't offer backwards compatibility at all, they might as well write off the last few years/billions completely.
Re:No HDD = no compatibility = no point to Xbox 1 (Score:2)
Technical issues are not their only problem, look into the article I linked in my previous post.
No chance. We're running under an emulator, remember? Anything that tries to step out of the sandbox gets killed immediately.
Oh yes, and we're talking about MS and buffer overflows, remember? What's to stop some guy to find some exploit on the emulation code? there are thousands of capable programmers out there hacking the curr
Re:The HDD is an important point for compatibility (Score:2)
Bullshit. Xbox TRC says you're not allowed to touch the metal. (Plus MS owns a lot of patents that they swiped from SGI. I wouldn't be suprised if any of them cover shaders.) You have to use XAPI and DirectX for everything. Clever emulation software will intercept these API calls and run them in native code. Easier said than done, but it is possible. Perhaps the only
Flash RAM? Can NOT replace HDD. (Score:5, Insightful)
Flash RAM's application is to store firmware code that is not meant to change frequently. I imagine that the type of data one stores on a HDD changes frequently, sometimes very frequently.
Re:Flash RAM? Can NOT replace HDD. (Score:2, Informative)
Not a bad idea... Yet (Score:2)
Also something nobody has brought up yet... Downloadable content. A smaller storage space means they're going to have to axe something
One drawback (Score:4, Funny)
One is probably not enough, make it two (Score:2, Interesting)
backwards compatibility? (Score:2, Interesting)
it was one thing to have a ps one inside a ps2, but slapping the hardware needed to make an xbox2 support xbox 1 games would be very expensive.. unless they basically just scaled up the xbox - which they wont.
It's all about cost.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I can't tell you how many people I know purchased a brand new computer only to find out the hard disk got knocked around a little too hard during transport.. Add to that the need to purchase the cheapest hard drive available and it all adds up to costly support time. Let's not forget that Microsoft is primarily a software company.
Despite our lusting desire to have a high capacity hard drive on our next game console, most people will never utilize those features. Yeesh, I haven't even played a DVD on my xbox yet. In the end Microsoft will probably reduce their repair expenses considerably by switching to a solid state device.
Seems Obvious (Score:4, Insightful)
It doesn't seem like a bad solution, especially if it allows them to chop down on the end cost of the console. Maybe they could include 802.11b/g connectivity? That'd make it easier to network in general, AND would let you do multiple X-Box parties without having to have everyone in the same room.
-Erwos
Flash not too likely (Score:5, Interesting)
Now, that being said there is a serious problem with flash that prevents this from being used as a boot or swap partition of any kind. It has limited write capacity before it fails (10,000 writes or so).
http://www.esacademy.com/faq/docs/flash/lifetim
Unless they can somehow develop new technology to get around this limitation, this could quickly become a very serious problem. For storing game saves and the like, 10,000 writes is plenty, but if your going to be constantly writing to the thing like a swap file would, you'll get about two weeks use before it's fried.
Possible solution; hybrid. Use a small microdrive from Hitachi similiar to what landed in the new mini ipod. Cheap, meant to be embedded, and hitachi will use a proprietary interface if you your big enough. Proprietary interface cuts down on hacks and helps make it a closed system. On top of this you put in a newcard (PCMCIA replacement) slot for a flash memory module that is used to store games. This would also allow you to run all kinds of other adapters. Keep in mind just like the usb slots in the current xbox, it doesn't have to be shaped like newcard to act like new card.
Have their cake and eat it too... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just a thought that I hadn't seen posted here yet.
Backwards compatability, not a problem with no HD (Score:3, Interesting)
Why couldn't they use a ram drive to fix that issue. Not flash ram.
Think about it the current Xbox only has 64 megs of ram, all the games thar are out there can't use more, but the xbox2 will almost definately have close to 512 megs of ram, why couldn't they just create a 448 meg ram drive to cache all of the data that used to be cached to the hard drive.. this would be EXTREMELY fast compared to ANY hard drive.
Re:Backwards compatability, not a problem with no (Score:3, Insightful)
RAMDisk is a solution for backwards compatibility *only* for those games that didn't take advantage of the drive in the first place. Which are mostly ports from other consoles. Games like Morrowind, Knights of the Old Republic, upcoming games like Sudeki and Fable, will all be useless with no drive.