Controversial Manhunt Game Rated 'R' in Ontario 75
GrimSean writes "Well, it looks like someone in power up here in Ontario finally noticed the level of violence in Rockstar's Manhunt, as the Ontario Film Review Board has given it an R rating, much like a movie. The Toronto Star has an article here and the CBC has also covered the story - according to an article at CJAD, businesses could be fined a minimum of $25,000 Canadian for selling it to minors. It seems like they've completely sidestepped the ESRB's M rating and gone directly to the Restricted to 'control the thing'."
This is OK (Score:4, Insightful)
Good decision, I applaud Ontario.
Re:This is OK (Score:1)
One could consider it good or bad though, on one hand videogames being judged by a group well versed in making these types of judgements is defintely a plus, but on the otherhand this group probably doesn't have experience with games and dealing with their level of interactivity....
Interesting story though, good to hear its getting judged instead
Re:This is OK (Score:5, Interesting)
Some would even argue about their competency to judge films.
I seem to remember that a few years ago there was some artsy type film that involved some females talking to each other about their sex lives. No actualy sex, just talking about it, and the MPAA wanted to rate it NC-17.
Ok, after five minutes of Googling i think i have it narrowed down:
"And some suspect that the MPAA rates films about female sexuality tougher than those focusing on men. For example, an independent teen comedy called Coming Soon that was a hit at the Seattle International Film Festival has had trouble finding a domestic distributor (20th Century Fox bought international rights) after being rated NC-17. The film, which is about three teenage girls who talk frankly about sex and their interest in it, contains no nudity and no violence. The filmmaker has said that when she accused the board of having a gender-based double standard she was told that the board was merely reflecting the mores of the nation."
(Excerpt from this site [virgin.net])
So if we can't even trust the review boards to judge movies fairly, how can we expect them to judge video games?
Re:This is OK (Score:1, Troll)
Re: Note this is NOT the MPAA (Score:1, Informative)
Anyways, the point is that you can't go and talk about the competency of the MPAA and then compare it to this, a wholly different ratings group.
In fact, I'd like to point out that while many movies in America get R ratings for minor sexual content, the very same movies here in Ontario (and most if not all of Canad
Re:This is OK (Score:1)
Except the group that rated the game wasn't the MPAA, it was The Ontario Film Review Board [gov.on.ca].
Re:This is OK (Score:1)
I concur, although why the Ontario Film Review board? Im not sure having videogame ratings being assigned by the film review board is a good precedent....
One could consider it good or bad though, on one hand videogames being judged by a group well versed in making these types of judgements is defintely a plus, but on the otherhand this group probably doesn't have experience with games and dealing with their level of interactivity....
As noted below, in the UK the British Board of Film Classification [bbfc.org.uk]
Why do we call it a "Video" Game? (Score:1)
Simply put, they are reviewing the video content and accompanying soundtrack of the game, as they are authorized to do under Ontario's Theatres Act. That's what the film board does. [gov.on.ca] The ESRB rates the game's general content, including gameplay
Re:This is OK (Score:2)
Why not? Tons of video games these days really are little more than interactive movies anyways, and Manhunt definately falls into that category. If you turned the game into a movie it would be nothing more than an extremely violent snuff film (I've beaten the game, personally, so I know) which would definately be rated R if released into theatres.
Re:This is OK (Score:4, Insightful)
And kids who really want it can ask their parents... forcing the parents to be involved.
And for those parents who don't have a problem with it can just go buy it for their kids.
Re:This is OK (Score:4, Informative)
I have no problem with this. I wish more areas would do this. Rather than whine about the games themselves, go after the fucking bastards who sell extremely violent video games to 10 year olds. Hit them in the wallet where it hurts.
I mean credit to the ESRB thing, but a certificate is only useful if it actually does anything. As it is now, the "M" certificate isn't a warning, it's a selling point. If there's an existing structure in place for movies and it can be legally applied to video games, so be it. Start fining these stores that sell these games to kids large chunks of money and perhaps they may start enforcing the ratings.
A similar approach has worked to a certain degree to stop kids buying cigarettes.
In short, kudos to Ontario!
Re:This is OK (Score:1)
Power Grab? (Score:3, Funny)
Off topic: I noticed this section of the Theater Act:
National anthem
21. (1) The national anthem shall be played in every theatre at the commencement of the first or at the conclusion of the last exhibition or performance given each day. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.6, s. 21 (1).
Can our Ontario readers inform me if this is really done?
Re:Power Grab? (Score:1, Informative)
I'm from Ontario, and I've never heard the national anthem played at a theatre. It seems like a stupid thing to put in the law. But look at the wording: they only need to play it once a day, and can do it after the last performance, i.e. after the credits of a late showing. Almost everyone would leave before
Re:Power Grab? (Score:3, Informative)
A few years ago, I was up at an army base, and watch a movie there. They still played the national anthem. It was really strange to listen to O'Canada and then watch species.
Re:Power Grab? (Score:1)
Re:Power Grab? (Score:1)
I remember the feeling of anticipation before the movie would start, and then the curtain would raise, the lights would dim, and the first thing that was played was the scratchy copy of the national anthem. The beam of light from the projector was clearly visible in the cigarette smoke drifting through the theatre, and we would all stand up whil
They'll get around it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:They'll get around it (Score:2)
However, retailers still shouldn't be selling it to minors.
--Jeremy
Re:They'll get around it (Score:1)
Those who are interested in computers, and enjoy figuring out how things work. Trust me when I say though, that is not the majority.
Most kids know that there exists such a thing as the interweb and you can get free porn if you look hard enough.
As they grow older they might learn more about downloading these games, but at that point they would already be able to buy the games on their own, or at least be relatively close to that point.
Film Board Rating Video Games (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Film Board Rating Video Games (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Film Board Rating Video Games (Score:3, Informative)
This game isn't about you just randomly running around like in an FPS blowing people up, sniping them in the head, etc. It's a stealth game where you sneak up on people to murder them. I have to say murder rather than kill to get the point across a little more since we're usually used to killing thi
My thoughts... (Score:5, Insightful)
On a side note, sometimes I think that (in the U.S., don't know much about how it's done in Canada) we should just switch to movie ratings for games. I don't know if it would be a good idea for the same board or whatever to rate them, but it's just that PG and R are more familiar to most people than E or M. And they are kinda on the same "scale" anyway (PG-13 = T, R = M), so it might be a good thing.
Oh, and does anybody else feel that game ratings are a little...big? The dirtiest R-rated movie can get away with a little tiny square on the back of the box, but then videogames have to have a huge, ugly E or T or whatever plastered on the front and a large "descriptor" on the back. It's not that I'm against visability of the ratings, but I just think that videogames and movies should be treated more alike (it's annoying when Target refuses to sell M-rated games to minors, but don't have the same policy for R-rated movies, etc.)
That was quite a rant there...enjoy.
Re:My thoughts... (Score:2, Insightful)
So the reason video game ratings are so big is because the consumer has to see them or they mean nothing.
Movie ratings can be small, because the consumer doesn't have to see them; the onus is on the storeowner to enfore them.
Oh, and I'm an
Re:My thoughts... (Score:1, Interesting)
Sorry, but that's bullshit. There is no law that "enforces" the MPAA ratings. It's enforced solely by the MPAA through the use of fines and the threat of withholding major movies from violators.
Actually, much the game industry says they w
Re:My thoughts... (Score:1)
Calling All Canadian Lawyers! (Score:1)
So at the very least, the MPAA sanctions and approves of the ratings the Ontario Board gives.
But maybe a kindly Canadian lawyer can come by and settle this debate.
Ontario, USA??? (Score:1)
You're especially right when you're talking
Re:My thoughts... (Score:2)
Oh, and I'm an Ontarian, and I've never heard the anthem played at a movie theatre. And I'm pretty sure I've been to a "first showing of the day" (specifically, the midnight premiere of Star Wars Episode I).
The playing of the national anthem in movie theatres died out in Ontario sometime in the early-mid 80's. When I went to see the original Star Wars they played it. I guess you're just too young to remember ;).
Yaz.
Re:My thoughts... (Score:1)
Re:My thoughts... (Score:4, Insightful)
Could it be (*gasp* *shock*) that violence in real life really is "disgusting"? Perhaps the designers were trying to make you feel bad about killing all those people?
Why, it seems I'm right.
Ontario (Score:4, Informative)
Another interesting thing, in the U.S. ratings are voluntary but in Canada they're decided by the Provincial governments, and (in Ontario at least) they're a bit stricter than the U.S., i.e. a few of the more extreme American R-rated films (Eyes Wide Shut, Hannibal) and all(?) NC-17 films get the 18+ rating in Canada.
Ironically, the 18+ rating is slapped on so many films it's not seen as a big deal. That's why Canada got the uncut version of American Psycho in theatres, while the producers wanted to avoid the NC-17 in the U.S., in Canada it was going to get rated 18+ anyway so there was no point in making cuts. Crash similarly had no problems in getting shown in Canadian theatres.
Maybe we'll get 'Canadian' versions of games with extra nudity and violence, since the 18+ rating is the strictest available there's no reason to hold back.
Re:Ontario (Score:3, Interesting)
And you're right a lot of films actually get a lighter rating in Ontario, I don't think swearing matters much, so an American R-rated film like 1
Re:Ontario (Score:1)
I live in Texas and noticed that alot lately, it's pretty silly if you ask me. Watch a bunch of Iraqis get blown apart on the news, but don't say God damn! that's evil!
Re:Ontario (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ontario (Score:2)
Re:Ontario (Score:4, Insightful)
No they're not. While Matrix Reloaded was rated R down South (and got to become the most profitable R-rated movie), it was just 14A here. There's a bit of a cultural gap between the acceptance of violence and sexuality between Canada and US. I guess movies get judged more harshly on sexuality down south than here; but here, movies get judged more critically on violence. Especially brutal realistic violence, and not the cartoony Matrix-kind.
Also, remember that these are *provincial* ratings, so they tend to vary. As you can imagine, in the more liberal Quebec, the ratings for sexual content are FAR less strict.
Re:Ontario? (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Ontario? (Score:2)
I used to know a guy from, I kid you not, Orlando of all places who said of Florida:It's a nice place to visit... wait, no, it's not.
Re:Ontario? (Score:2)
Rockstar Games Open Letter (Score:4, Funny)
We, and the stakeholders, thank you for dramatically increasing public interest in our addictively fun game of death, destruction, and mayhem. Slow sales have been a bit of a problem, but now, young adults everywhere are lusting after the (almost) unattainable beauty that is Manhunt for PS2. Coming soon for Xbox and PC.
Sincerely,
Rockstar Games
Re:Rockstar Games Open Letter (Score:2)
We, and the stakeholders, thank you for dramatically increasing public interest in our addictively fun game of death, destruction, and mayhem. Slow sales have been a bit of a problem, but now, young adults everywhere are lusting after the (almost) unattainable beauty that is Manhunt for PS2. Coming soon for Xbox and PC.
Sincerely, Rockstar Games
EXACTLY....but now the Ontario film board have covered their asses from any backlash and put the responsibility on the retailers a
A game Australians won't see (Score:4, Informative)
We didn't see GTA until they had removed a scene in which you see a car rocking, windows steamed and can then get out and kill the woman and take the money. Other games have suffered a similar fate, like Carmageddon.
This is a strange fate for a country in which 18-24 year olds make up a very large portion of the gaming market - particularly console gaming.
Re:A game Australians won't see (Score:2)
"Scene"? I dont' remember any of the cinematics involving sex with hookers followed by murder. The only way to construct such a "scene" is if *you* choose to do it. The only way to prevent such a scene is to take out of of the elements (ability to have sex/ability to kill people).
I'm curious, which element was dropped in Australia?
Re:A game Australians won't see (Score:2, Informative)
Grand Theft Auto III was refused classification on the grounds that you could pick up a hooker in your car, do your business, then afterwards beat her to death to get your money back. This is seen as being on par with rape. Rockstar simply edited out the coding that let the hooker enter your car, and re-released the game, with a classification of MA(15+).
You'll need to do better than that! (Score:4, Interesting)
Ever since Night Trap on the Mega CD, games have been regulated by the Britsh Board of File Classification. They're *video* games, and have been treated as such under the law. The publishers submit their games to be rated voluntarily in the main, but the BBFC would have had no qualms about slamming an 18 certificate on Manhunt, submission or no.
I don't see how people can seriously argue against this. I now fully understand why the whole selling games to minors (was that Washington?) was such a big deal! Here I was thinking that retailers were just disregarding the law
The current problem in the UK in regards to this are the retailers (hence my previous confusion). They're quite happy to sell 18 games to parents who'll then give the game to their children, without even pointing out the certificate in the first place. I always made a point of telling parents that the game was certified 15 or 18, and the response was always the same: "Really? But it's just a game!" I'd then proceed to tell them the actual content of Grand Theft Auto III, and that was the end of that. The game would be put back, and not given into the hands of the child whom the BBFC has decided really shouldn't play it. And that's how it should be.
Not that the blame lies entirely there. Games magazines aimed at minors were shipping with demo discs that contained adult content and had a 15 certificate. I had to refuse selling a magazine to kids because of irresponsible disc compilation.
So yeah, the system in the UK doesn't work, but the idea is there
Re:You'll need to do better than that! (Score:2)
Yes, goodness forbid that violence is displayed in a disturbing and repulsive manner. Violence should always be fun and whimsical.
A game that invokes guilt and repulsion when you are forced to perform a grisly murder... well, that has no place in civilized society.
Re:You'll need to do better than that! (Score:2)
The argument for Manhunt is that it happens in movies, why not games? I agree, these games do deserve to be released. But games nee
Re:You'll need to do better than that! (Score:1)
Ok, that's it. Either you provide proof (written statement from both development and publisher) that this was some kind of morality play meant to have the player feel guilt and remorse, or face the wrath of goodness. Meanwhile, let me know how goodness can forbid anything. Last time I checked, the expression was "God forbid". Try that.
Spare me. Rockstar Games is just another friggin "evil corporation" that's out to make a buck. Stop shoving your pucky around and trying to pass it off as art.
how they decided? (Score:2)
"If you've seen this video you realize, quite frankly, it's really disturbing," said Ontario Consumer Minister Jim Watson.
"Some of the graphics that I was shown should alert parents that this kind of a video is for older children," he said.
This seems to indicate that, once again, people made a judgement on a game without actually playing it. While maybe someone else play
Re:how they decided? (Score:3, Insightful)
Have YOU played the game? I'll point out that all of the money shots do take the form of cutscenes, BTW.
But, in all seriousness, how would YOU rate a game in which you play a supposedly executed felon, who is then forced to be the title star of a snuff film, who then has to survive the night by stalking and killing, in the most imaginative and violent ways possible, a succession of psychotic criminals?
This game makes NO bones about being all of this, and no
Note that I'm a civil libertarian who doesn'
Re:how they decided? (Score:2)
They do not rate movies based on trailers or the script. They watch the entire thing. I think that videogames are worthy of at least being experienced in the way that they are intended to be experiences -- that is played -- before they are judged.
That they seem to have judged it based on watching it is the problem, not that they jud
Re:how they decided? (Score:2)
Nonsense. Any game which bills itself as an 'interactive snuff film' can be rated based on that alone.
And my understanding is that they did watch the game being played (they might not have had the mad skills to play it themselves, after all.)
Re:how they decided? (Score:1)
Well, the ESRB don't play the games they rate, either. From their FAQ [esrb.org];
To get a game certified with an ESRB rating, publishers fill out a detailed questionnaire explaining exactly what's in the game, and submit it to ESRB along with actual videotaped footage of the game, showing the most extreme content and an accurate representation of the context and product as a whole. Working independently, three
Re:how they decided? (Score:2)
R rating? (Score:2)
parental control (Score:1)
It's all about parental control. Parents need to be aware of what's going on in their living room or the kids room. they need to be aware of what games they are playing and even play it themselves before they hand the game over to the kid.
I know... what happens when Johnny is over at Jimmy's house and he has Manhunt. We just had a daughter (and, being a gamer myself I hope she's into video games) and, yeah she'
Disgusting (Score:1)
It is a perfectly legitimate concern. Not letting 12 year old boys get a kick out of jamming a crowbar through someone's head and watching blood pour out isn't just being "moral," it's simply common decency. Just typi
so... we agree? (Score:2)
Seems to have Better than Average Gameplay (Score:1)
http://gametab.com/ps2/manhunt/1736/
Overal about a 77% rating
84%
"Manhunt is an audacious game that backs up its extremely violent subject matter with solid stealth action gameplay." -GameSpot
85%
"In the end, Manhunt is a highly polished strategy game of hide-and-seek, kill-or-be-killed gameplay. It's narrow in focus, but deep in its specialty." -IGN
65%
"You will, indeed, feel like a convict trying to survive...Still,