EB Demands Payment From Victim of Theft 518
blincoln writes "ABC Action News is reporting that a Florida Electronics Boutique bought stolen games and gaming hardware, and made a profit on selling them back to their rightful owner, refusing to return the merchandise unless she paid them. From the article: 'EB Games still insists it will not refund Michelle's money. If she wants her money back, the company said, she can go through the legal system and get restitution from the thief.' In addition, EB appears to be violating the law by re-selling used merchandise without holding it for the required number of days. I was under the impression that purchasers of stolen merchandise could expect it to be seized by the police (who would return it to the owner) and not recover any of the money they spent buying it unless they took action against the thief. Is that not the case in Florida?"
issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
if I'm not mistaken before they're given away. The article says she went to the store after two days and they had already
sold her playstation. They clearly violated law and should be reported to the authorities, not the manager as she did.
EB isn't exempt from state laws... (Score:5, Insightful)
So, now, the only question is why it's a local TV station pointing this out instead of the local police? EB's used goods operation isn't complying with state law. That's the bigger problem...
Call the police! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Call the police! (Score:5, Insightful)
The hell..? (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, EB broke at least one law (Score:5, Insightful)
But isn't there a law on the books about buying stolen goods? I always thought that that was a crime as well.
EB is obviously not looking at the big picture here. They want to recoup the cost of the stuff that they bought. However, a good response here (like giving her her stuff and sucking the loss), is going to win a good customer (this store did the right thing, that's why I purchase from them).
Re:issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
Gee, what a surprise. (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, that's provided that you buy new and your "new" game isn't simply a re-shrinked used game being sold as new.
Next up on the list of EB crimes against consumers will be punching you in the face after each purchase, followed by stealing back what you just bought.
EB should be criminally charged (Score:5, Insightful)
Regardless of whether or not EB knew the goods were stolen when they purchased them from the thief, they did not not take reasonable precautions to ensure that they weren't stolen, such as follow the 15 day law.
EB's actions were simply reprehensible, and I, for one, will no longer deal with them.
Re:The hell..? (Score:4, Insightful)
EB is wrong in this case twice and will suffer a customer backlash, if it gets the publicity it deserves. The only thing that gets a corporations attention anymore is a big hit in the wallet.
Re:EB isn't exempt from state laws... (Score:5, Insightful)
I assume there is some applicable hefty fine for their infringing on state law. Their not offering the customer the small amount of money she is owed as a result of their infraction is just mind-boggling.
I have to think this is not an "evil corporation" issue. Evil corporations are perfectly happy to pay small amounts of money to uphold an image of benevolence. I think this is more likely an "incredibly stupid store manager" issue.
Re:issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems like a good scam for EB (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not sure about Florida (Score:3, Insightful)
I see, they've chosen to opt out of that law. Do they have a policy on whether they're allowed to keep slaves too?
Re:EB isn't exempt from state laws... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Better than sue, BOYCOTT (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, after getting your money back in small claims court, set the cops loose on em for fencing.
Re:Well, EB broke at least one law (Score:2, Insightful)
So, lets consider this. The thief knew he could take it to EB and not worry about it. What Florida should be concerned about is not only getting back this woman's property/compensating for illegaly sold property, but also looking into other similar cases. My bet is that either EB is concerned there might be many more, or already knows there are more based on their reaction in this case... why they're not doing the right thing.
Re:Better than sue, BOYCOTT (Score:1, Insightful)
What kind of crack are you smoking?
Tobacco lawsuits is the first one that comes to my mind. What about the idiot who won a lawsuit against McDonalds when she poured her own coffee on her crotch?
Don't forget the other piece. (Score:5, Insightful)
"He said that he went in there and took it. He was hard up for money for his rent," Wayne Welsh said. "He took them to EB Games in Gulfview Square Mall and sold them...he said that's where they don't do a check and he can sell them without worrying about the police finding out he stole them."
This isn't a random occurrence. He already knew where to go to sell them without any checks.That indicates that this store has a history of such deals. It seems that the cops should be doing a lot of digging into that store's previous dealings.
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Better than sue, BOYCOTT (Score:1, Insightful)
Which is why class action lawsuits are so rare.
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
You should be able to easily find EB Games stores that have a better respect of the law than this small incident, whom are willing to put an item on reserve if the legal ownership of the product is in dispute. (Other methods are also available, such as giving store credit instead of cash - when the products are determined to be stolen, the credit gets revoked. )
Re:Dealing in stolen goods? (Score:3, Insightful)
Let EB know about what you think of their policies (Score:5, Insightful)
If enough of us call to let them know about what we think of their policies, they might understand the magnitude of their problem. The call's free folks, and so is 5 minutes of your time on a Sunday.
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
But are they *that* hard up for money that they cannot refund her for purchasing stolen goods from them? (NO [corporate-ir.net]) I would say stolen goods count as a fair 30-day return policy, but I'm not familiar with their return policies. Then, after refund, they could return the stolen goods, or whats left of them, to (her) the rightful owner or at least the police. Aside from them breaking state law, why is this so hard? Even if their return policy does not include a clause for stolen goods, its good for PR and karma just to take them back since she's obviously not satisfied with her purchase.
By insisting that her purchase was legit, they have not only broken the 15-day hold law, but have also ripped her off. And now they KNOW they did and yet they still maintain this. Although, considering the issues [fsu.edu] surrounding Florida's 1996 Pawnbroking Act, it would seem this kind of thing happens often in Florida and/or the "pawn shops" strike a fine line near anarchy. If there is a strong correlation between the increase in pawn shops disobeying proper protocol (or "communication breakdown", as one EB spokesman puts it) and theft, then this should be issue, indeed [ftlaud.fl.us]. The burglar, who was just trying to pay the rent, even said he chose EB because of their lazy procedures.....hmm.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
Similar story, but better results (Score:5, Insightful)
The preferred method was to have the victim of the theft do all the 'legwork' and only involve the police if there is some difficulty in getting cooperation.
Well, it worked. They found someone had just sold an alottment of DVD's that exactly matched the list of stolen goods (minus one that the thief apparently kept or lost). The store was cooperative and returned the goods. They had the name of the thief on record (and he'd stupidly used his real ID and real name when selling the goods), and were going to deal with the court case themselves.
That was the last we'd heard of the incident.
It would be a happy ending if it wasn't for the fact that the thief (remember he used his real name) turned out to be a friend we all knew. He knew about the DVD's because he'd been invited over on occasion to watch them. Obviously, this incident was the end of friendly relations with the guy. When my friend called him on the phone, he claimed "Oh, yeah, those DVD's, uhm yeah, some homeless black guy said he just found them and he gave a bunch of them to me. I didn't realize they were yours or I would have given them to you, dude." (Yeah, right - some of those DVD's were really obscure rare items, so there's no way he could fail to notice that that exact combination of DVD's was the same as the ones at his friend's house.)
Some people can be real scum.
But anyway, the point of the story is that this incident is an example of how pawn shops are supposed to work when everything is being done legally and with good intentions, unlike what EB games did.
RTFA - selling back at PROFIT. (Score:3, Insightful)
But when Michelle went back to EB Games to pick up her lost property, she got another shock. EB Games insisted on selling her back her own property for roughly twice as much as they had paid the thief.
You mean chain's previous dealings. (Score:3, Insightful)
Gamestop's the same way. Check it out sometime, they're all like it.
Re:issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Not necessarily, but when the managers who control the chain do nothing to correct the rogue actions of a franchise, the practices then become representative of the entire chain. Better to do business with another chain or small shop that doesn't engage in such shady dealings (or at least those not known to be shady).
Pedant Time (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:The hell..? (Score:1, Insightful)
Since this is such an authortative statement, I'd appreciate it if you would give out your BBO number or badge number. Surely somone so well versed in the intricacies of the law over the past 50 years must either be an experienced lawyer or a police chief by now. Otherwise, shut the fuck up because you don't know what you're talking about (just like evey other armchair lawyer on slashdot).
Sound the Troll Bells (Score:5, Insightful)
Moreover, I can't really think of any retail chain that specifically allows its individual stores to order individual products. Specific ordering on a store level for any chain that buys in bulk is an inventory management nightmare and would come at nothing less than a huge cost, and therefore price, increase.
Why the low emphasis on gaming knowledge? As a former EB assistant manager, I'll tell you. Typically, people who "know about games" don't work. They sit on their asses during paid hours and talk about games with other people you've hired that "know about games." Nine times out of ten, you hire a guy who is "knowledgeable" and you've hired a poor worker. They don't sell. They don't work. They talk about games. They're elist and will, quite undiplomatically, tell customers that the game that customer has brought to the counter "sucks." Give me a good salesperson over a knowledgable gamer any day. That's not to suggest that a good salesperson will not learn about the product she sells. She will. But the ones who write on their application "I know a lot about video games because I've been playing them 5 hours a day since I was five" are not the people you want working in your store, because, simply, they won't work.
In reference both to Dragoon412's comment and to the original article, there is little consistency of quality between any retail chain. I think the EB I worked at was run extremely tightly, with an emphasis on professionalism, politeness, and gaming knowledge. I've been to other EBs where that is definitly not the case, which is just like any other retail chain. They're highly dependent on the personality and drive of the manager. Surprise.
Secondly, as already stated, EB is not the same store as Gamestop. While Babbages/Gamestop - which are all owned by Barnes and Noble - might use DOS still, EB does not use a DOS-based POS. While they are now in the minority, when I worked at EB in the mall I noticed that many other retail stores are still on rudimentory POS. What does that have to do with selling inside the safety period mentioned in the article, or even running a good store? Not a damn thing. A good manager and employees can run a tight, strong, customer-centric store with a pen and a pad (as once nightmaringly demonstrated at my store on a Black Friday).
Yes, you'll find game stores that are run horribly, as the article so acutely demonstrates. You might have to look hard, but what you will eventually also find, though, are hard working people in EB (and presumably Gamestop) who care about their work and their customers. I know I sound like I'm pitching the company line here. Nevertheless, I have as many anti-corporate Steven Morgan jokes as the next guy. Dragoon421's "EB" store and the one in the article are individual stores not indicative of the entire company.
Re:I won't be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:5, Insightful)
I would agree reimbursement is not enough. But I think Corporate should go a step further. Instead of suing, they should very publically revoke the franshise agreement. There are generally some pretty strong conditions on tarnishing the brand. If it was 'common knowledge' as the story indicates that this store didn't do checks (making it a common, recurring practice), etc, and then in this case knowingly sold stolen property (back to the original owner), I don't think they'd have any problem terminating their agreement.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
We have the same problem with the police not investigating all property crimes, but it isn't quite that bad yet.
RFID would solve all of your problems (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course RFID tags are manufactured by Satan himself and there is no legitimate use for them, or at least so say the /. editors.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
How would that be different from any of the other scams people try, like torching their own buildings and collecting the insurance? I'm sure it would be covered by existing laws, such as "filing false police reports."
Re:issue? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm. There's an old cliche that "A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged." (And, "A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.")
But when the one of the "let's cut taxes!" brand of conservative suddenly finds not enough cops to track down the guy who burgled his house (or worse yet, not enough firefighters to come extinguish his house-b-que, or EMTs to come jumpstart his dad's failing heart)...yeah, you just might see a tax (and service) cutter switch to a tax-and-spend liberal.
(Of course, they might just become one of the new "borrow and spend" conservatives that have become popular lately; "don't tax us, our kids will pay for it." Grand.)
Facts facts facts (Score:5, Insightful)
I have learned, from extensive experience, that news reporting as to details is terribly weak. The news gets it right as to the big picture with astonishing frequency, but almost every news article I have seen published with which I had intimate familiarity with the details contains several material errors. In short, don't believe everything you read.
Note, further, that law does not always provide a civil remedy for every bad action of a person or company, even where the conduct of EB may have been a violation or a crime. It is quite possible that EB may be subject to fines or worse, but that the buyer's sole recourse would be against the thief. It may well be that EB may be subject to restitution for various forms of conversion, plus punitive damages. Who knows? The devil is in the details. Without the facts, we'd just be guessing.
Last time I checked... (Score:2, Insightful)
I agree that this would be something worth boycotting EB over. EB has no competitive edge over GameSpot/Babbages/Best Buy/Circuit City/Walmart for game prices anyway (unless you're buying used).
Re:issue? (Score:1, Insightful)
If that doesn't seem feasible, I might try a letter to the editors. One of those "If it happened to me, it can happen to you" letters that prey on people's fears. I'd be inclined to mention the officers by name too.
It's all a giant pain in the ass anyway. (I'm just the kinda guy who preferes to take all his lumps at once.)
Re:issue? (Score:4, Insightful)
In my parent's town (small town Kansas), stuff like this gets hunted down. In San Diego, you've pretty much got to get shot to get the local cops out of their offices (unless, of course, you're speeding or something). We just pretty much accept that the local cops are worthless, and get on with our lives. Higher taxes aren't the answer-- revising the various levels of civil service so that the competant got raises, and the incompetent got fired, would be. Ah well. Time to privatize the police as well, I guess...
--
Re:Oh, please. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Sound the Troll Bells (Score:2, Insightful)
Actually, they provably are.
If this had been an abberration, then EB heaquarters could have fulfilled their duty by providing the victim with restitution and then some to apologize. A spare gamecube and a handful of games probably would have turned this woman into a fan for life -- at the very least, it would have shown a jury you weren't trying to profit by receiving stolen property. It goes without saying that the punishment against the store manager and franchise owner should have been Draconian to say the least.
Instead, EB headquarters endorsed the local manager's decision to deal in stolen property. Therefore, the crime attaches to them and they should be sitting at the defendant's table.
More importantly, as a man with several children, nieces and nephews, the words "EB" and "thief" have forever been linked in my mind.
Way to go, guys. You took a small local problem and turned it into a national embarrassment. Brilliant.
Re:issue? (Score:1, Insightful)
Shoot to kill.
Claim he was attacking you.
If he was actually attacking you, make it sound worse than it was.
Might not sit well with you, but it's a guarantee that you won't go to prison.
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
Time for RoboCob!
-rickRe:issue? (Score:4, Insightful)
If she could match the serial number on the unit, the woman should rightfully walk out of the store with her playstation. It is her possession every bit as much as if she had bought one from the cashier, and the store being defauded doesn't change that. The only thing that could stop her is if the store needed that as a form of evidence against the perpetrator. However, the store has already expressed a lack of interest in pursuing that avenue.
While Electronics Boutique is notorious for poor magement (pushing pre-orders at the expense of sales, for example), trafficing in stolen merchandise steps over quite a few lines. Somebody's head should roll for this.
Re:issue? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
Unfortunately? "Kids?" 17 year old thugs on a B&E and assault? If they end up shot to death in self-defense by some law-abiding legally armed homeowner such as myself that will be a good thing for society as a whole.
Yeah, I'm getting crabby as I get older. Damned kids. *grump*
Re:issue? (Score:2, Insightful)
Well it's all well and good that YOU don't care about protecting yourself or your property, but you really shouldn't be hurling insults at others because THEY have a problem with some crackheaded punks running off with the possessions they paid good money for. If they have "Better shit to worry about than your guitars" then they need to stop advising people to "refrain from taking the law into thier own hands, leave it to the police." Your logic is the kind of thing that leads to vigilantism.
I wish we could do this (Score:3, Insightful)
I won't go into the boring details but I've since come to the conclusion that the police are operating on a market economy.
In any market economy you minimize your risks and maximize your income. The police are doing this when they spend most of their time handing out traffic tickets and avoiding burglers, murderers and others.
Traffic tickets are low risk and high income. Going after real criminals means no income and a pretty high level of risk.
The problem is figuring out how to change this without being labeled as "anti-police".
Re:issue? (Score:3, Insightful)
And as an even wiser man than your wise man once said, "Possession is nine tenths of the law."