EB Demands Payment From Victim of Theft 518
blincoln writes "ABC Action News is reporting that a Florida Electronics Boutique bought stolen games and gaming hardware, and made a profit on selling them back to their rightful owner, refusing to return the merchandise unless she paid them. From the article: 'EB Games still insists it will not refund Michelle's money. If she wants her money back, the company said, she can go through the legal system and get restitution from the thief.' In addition, EB appears to be violating the law by re-selling used merchandise without holding it for the required number of days. I was under the impression that purchasers of stolen merchandise could expect it to be seized by the police (who would return it to the owner) and not recover any of the money they spent buying it unless they took action against the thief. Is that not the case in Florida?"
Dealing in stolen goods? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
pawn shops (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Well, EB broke at least one law (Score:3, Interesting)
Similar experience on the reseller side of things (Score:5, Interesting)
We've had a few break-ins in the past, the owner of our store tried contacting pawn shops in town to ask them to keep an eye out for iBooks/PowerBooks that might show up soon cause of the break-in. What is truely pathetic is that the pawn brokers just hung up as soon as they heard anything about stolen goods. They didn't want to be involved in the slightest. That really made me mad that people out there are allowed to run such a shady business. But that's America for ya, thanks Martha Stewart...
As I mentioned earlier, we deal in used equipment as well. We're able to track S/N through Apple's service site, so we often catch a lot of stolen equipment. If the names don't match up for example, obvious red flag. Other times it just seems like some scam is taking place, especially when the kids that steal these things don't know how to turn em on, what the product name is, don't know the password or username, etc. So we play along with them, claim we just need to take it in back for a few minutes to 'test it out', run the serial number, call the cops and see if it's been reported, if so we have the police come pick them up and return the product to the customer (another reason not to buy mail-order, sometimes the local guys are looking out for you more ways than one).
But even phoning the police on these matters is rediculous, in our city, you have to talk to about 10 different people, none one at the station seems to care. Which is frustrating, they have an attitude that it's not worth getting off their butts to check for a serial number. And yet, every one we've phoned in was reported and was finally returned.
I wish local police would have a website to allow you to look up serial numbers of reported stolen goods, it'd make reselling and buying for the customer a lot safer and ethical. Although I'm sure it's more a legal problem to pull that task off, but still... I can dream of a perfect world still?
I hope they sue EB for this, it's truely bad business.
Not sure about Florida (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:pawn shops (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
From the article -
Under state law, all merchants who deal in secondhand goods are required to hold those goods for 15 calendar days before selling them. The law is designed specifically to prevent the sale of stolen goods, and prevent situations like this.
Well, you cannot blame her for not reporting it to the authorities - usually you end up going to the authorities only as a last resort. You try and solve problems as best as you can before that with the company and if that does not work out, you see restitution.
But now that its out in the open, it may turn quite interesting.
If she's reading.. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Similar experience on the reseller side of thin (Score:5, Interesting)
There's no punishment for them if they don't realize that its stolen property... so they really want to follow a don't ask, don't tell policy.
Re:EB isn't exempt from state laws... (Score:5, Interesting)
We don't have any EB stores where I live, but we have KB's and Game Stop, both of which sell used games, and I have to tell you their prices are horrible. Both places price games 5$ under retail. I can't imagine not paying the extra 5$ to get a new copy.
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
This isn't suprising at all (Score:5, Interesting)
The entire company is poorly run. They're still using an ancient, convoluted, DOS-based PoS system that appears to pre-date the existance of the company. District and regional managers play slash and burn with a store's allotment of employee hours, and then throw a fit and fire the store managers when secret shoppers complain that the one employee running the store by herself for 8 hours didn't manage to get through the daily 20-some box delivery from UPS. Orders for specific products are placed at a corporate level, not a store level, meaning that it's extremely common for stores to get in a glut of products they already have an excess of, or products they have no floor space for that won't sell anyways (like all their crappy collectibles, figurines, and trading cards). The store I worked at literally had Playstations and Xboxes and Gamecubes stacked up 6 to 8 feet in the employee bathroom for lack of anywhere else to put merchandise.
There's little to no emphasis placed on knowledge of games or gaming, and communication regarding the availability of new products to the store's emplyees is non-existant. Customer's are viewed as if they're some sort of problem, and treated with agreat deal of disrespect. They're routinely lied to and mislead, either out of contempt or ignorance. I've seen employees tell mom's shopping for their kids that Gameboy Advance games work in the old (circa 1990) model Gameboy, and employees routinely tag a Game Informer subscription on to a customer's order after the customer said he didn't want the subscription. I've personally been chewed out by a manager for talking a guy out of buying Halo (for the Xbox) for his kid's PS2. And of course, all this behavior is reinforced because the managers do it, too.
Gamestop/EB is a terrible chain. Seeing how they're run, I'm amazed they manage to stay in business. And seeing that they've ripped off a customer... well, that's a daily occurance.
I just canceled a order with them... (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B
--
+1 for low user ID and love for SCO
Re:Relevant laws (Score:3, Interesting)
- Being that the guy who stole the stuff confessed to the cops, it seems he would have to make restitution to EB.
It doesn't really seem to address the issue of what happens when the stuff is already sold and no longer in posession of the dealer. But it does provide a fill-in-the-blank petition for return of property if the dealer won't return it to you...
Michelle Doganis should find a lawyer (and IANAL, but I play can one on slashdot)
EB should burn in hell. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be hard to charge her with stealing stuff that she already owned.
I'm sure someone here must know some law on this.
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
More to the point.. what the fuck were they (EB) thinking.. is the bad publicity over this whole incident worth the negligable amount of money to this woman.... I think not, this will cost them alot more in the long run, and I hope the authorities come down hard on EB for violating the laws and this persons rights
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Lately, it seems like nothing's feasible. I had a truck broken into last year and $2K of tools and test equipment taken out of it. Response from the police? Leave a message on the answering machine and never, ever expect any followup. "It's an insurance matter."
Some of the equipment was licensed amateur radio gear that was very distinguishable. Checked with pawn shops. They told me to get lost: "We don't have to talk to you or tell you if we have your equipment or not. Only the police can check."
Obviously not if the police don't investigate it and relegate the matter to an answering machine (a friend at the police department said they only use those cases for statistical purposes - e.g. demonstrating they need more funding because of greater crime, though who knows what they'd do with more funds. Obviously not chase ordinary criminals that affect most of us).
Insurance company was no help either? Played "let's demand proof for everything" - and when proof was provided, claimed to lose forms, require reapplication, and then "mistakenly" closed my case twice. Never got paid a cent, though they indicated I had a claim. Recourse? File complaint with state insurance regulators. (Hint: their address is
Now we're dealing with a significant theft and destruction to a federally licensed communication site at work (in a matter that is going on across the country), and the local FBI office won't response. They're pretty busy hanging on Internet chat rooms nabbing perverts - maybe playing on the PC is more fun than doing field work. Local law enforcement says it's a national matter and has no resources to investigate.
Conclusion? Seems like a good time to be a crook or an insurance company. Us poor schmucks are outgunned and unrepresented. How's that "no taxation without representation" line go again?
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Me too! (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine if the owner of your shop is dyslexic. Reading serial numbers all day long is hard enough for anyone, but if you can't even be sure that you're reading them right... on top of that, some guy comes in and yells at you because you have trouble reading, and then six months later your shop is vandalized for no reason.
Sure, it's possible that the pawn shop could have been a front for a fencing operation. But don't you think that that's a little obvious, and that the regular police visits might discourage it? And if there had *not* been any pawn shops for the thief to go to, you wouldn't have gotten your bike back at all. These places expose themselves to the kind of treatment you delivered so that honest people can exchange goods and so that victims have a better chance of finding their stolen items.
-Elentar
Eb is just like that (Score:2, Interesting)
EB employees tend to be rude. They have a refund policy that they routinely violate. The management are even more rude and the stores generally suck.
BOYCOTT ELECTRONIC BOUTIQUE CAUSE THEY SUCK
Re:The hell..? (Score:5, Interesting)
This unfortunately has the potential to help EB's PR, though - It provides free advertising about a fact they cannot legally announce - That they will accept and resell stolen property, and do their damnedest to block any attempts to prove the theft or to restore the stolen property to its rightful owner.
Now, most legit purchasers may find this a tad unsavory, but will just assume it doesn't apply if they only buy new merchandise. Quite a few people, however, will consider this a godsend to getting shady "used" merchandise.
Of course, personally, I don't understand why people even still shop at places like EB. If you know exactly what you want, search for it online. You can usually get it for around half-price compared to local stores, and that before you consider not having to pay sales tax. My most recent example - I bought a few seasons of a popular TV series (won't say what, because I got it as a gift for someone, who reads Slashdot) on DVD. Local retail chains had them for a total of just over $200. Amazon had them for $170. Looking around online, and using two different stores (one had a horrible price on the first season, apparently they used that one as the money maker for the discount on the rest), I managed to get them all for under $120 including shipping.
Stolen Stuff (Score:4, Interesting)
"Is it me or has the world gone completely apeshit?"
As a Former Funcoland Manager (Score:5, Interesting)
If this store is using the model developed by Funco when I was worked for them in Texas the employees were required to get proof of who the person was ( state issues photo ID and if you are under 18 you needed a legal parent or guardian with you who then signed) and the customer was offered in store credit ( much higher $$ per game or to have a check mailed to the address on the picture ID. It sounds like the store manager might have been playing a little loose with the system put in place to differentiate the stores from pawn shops.
I had a situation pretty close to that happen to me in that the kid sold off his families games by bringing in a neighbor who posed as Dad so he could trade in twenty Nintendo games ( dating myself I know) for one super NES game... well grandma comes in the next day just livid at me...I explained the situation to her researched the transaction and asked her who the adult who signed the receipt was....she didn't care that her friend/neighbor enabled the kid to sell his games
Re:issue? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Mine was cable television equipment though. 5 scientific america boxes, to be exact.
Anyhow, they caught the dumbass, who tried to plug in the stolen boxes to see if they worked. Cox can tell you exactly where those boxes are on the network down to the tap port, then all you need is to look at the tag and see which house the line goes to.
Anyhow, in the end, the cops didn't do shit to help me get my stuff back. Cox did though.
I won't be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I won't be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Ownership of Stolen Goods (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I won't be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm writing their management and if there is not a nice followup story on slashdot I will boycott them because then it will be managements fault for not rectifying this after being given notice. This came just in time for me to renew my yearly customer loyalty discount card and buy a grand or so in stuff in the coming month.
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
Where I (BC, Canada) live if the police have arrested the thief and have a confession they will go get the stolen goods and return them to the owner, if the owner is known. If they don't know the owner they still take the goods as possesion of stolen property is against the law - and selling goods known to be stolen is also illegal. The store would be completely out for the money paid for the stolen goods unless they sue the thief.
A local guy paid over $30,000 for a newish car from a car dealership, the police discovered the car was stolen and took the car, returning it to the owner. The dealership had done all the correct paperwork before selling so the guy was out $30,000. The true owner of the car automatically got his car back with the police's help.
I find it hard to believe that the Florida police in this case didn't just march down to EB, recover the stolen goods (for evidence at least!) then return the goods to the legal owner.
If this had happened where I live EB would have had no choice but to return the games.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Interesting)
I just got broken into THIS week. Chickensh*t *sshole thieves took computer equipment and some of my SO's sentimental stuff. Could have been worse (about 5Gs worth), they got interrupted.
The police did NOTHING. Even though we had items dropped that only the punks could have touched, they wouldn't look at them or print them.
Their response..."we don't investigate stuff like this...if we did that, we'd never go home at night!"
Oh boohoo! So I said "basically you're saying its ok they get away with this..."
Answer: "Yup, unless someone catches them in the act or we catch them doing something bigger, we won't look for them, talk to your insurance"
I've done the local pawnshops and been told to get lost...
I'm talking to an insurance "auditor" next week...I can't wait to see how THAT goes.
I wonder why I pay taxes, cuz I sure don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth
Re:issue? (Score:1, Interesting)
Lesson? Time to buy a gun and cut out the middle men.
Re:This isn't suprising at all (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't know what store you worked at, but none of the ones in this district allow any of the ludicrous selling behavior to go on that you described. My manager would chew me out hardcore for forcing a subscription on someone who refused it. And when we don't know the answer to a question, we find out for the customer. We never intentionally mislead a customer. You must have really worked in a seriously messed up store, because that just doesn't happen at any of the local stores.
The reason the PS2/XBOX/Gamecubes are stored in the bathroom is because I believe that's company policy. The bathroom can be locked easily while not preventing access to the back room (which is a pain to get into when it's locked).
In this district, when we have product that isn't moving off the shelves, we ship it to a store that does sell a lot of that product.
As for the subject matter at hand, though, we track the serial numbers of all systems we buy and sell, and while we don't hold merchandise (that wouldn't be very reasonable to do given the volume of trade-ins we get), we do have fairly strict policies regarding suspected stolen merchandise. We get contact information on everyone when they do a trade-in, so in the event of something like this, we could track down the individual and report them to the police. I'm pretty sure EB has the same policy here.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Interesting)
All depends on the area you are in. (Score:5, Interesting)
Luckily, the police were on it fast, got the stuff seized, Gamestop fully cooperated. I been going there ever since.
EB, I used to go there all the time. Never again.
Re:As a Former Funcoland Manager (Score:3, Interesting)
Babbage's, Funcoland, and Gamestop are owned by Barnes and Noble. Electronics Boutique is part of EB Holdings. You may remember a few years back when EB tried to buy Funcoland, but was outbid by B&N. [ebholdings.com]
hmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sivaram Velauthapillai
What does this woman expect? (Score:1, Interesting)
The same thing happened to me (similar circumstance) where a large quantity of music CDs were stolen from my home - in my case the insurance paid the claim after seeing the exetnsive list and photographs of my living room showing the CDs stored there.
Some time later I found my CDs for sale in a local music store. It seems the thief who stole all of my CDs went and sold them all to this store. Several of the CDs where ones I ordered as free samples/not for resale and others exhibited water damage sustained when an aquarium overflowed when changing water. I confronted the store OWNER who was not concerned about this, I contacted the police who were not concerned with this... so with no recourse - I found out who sold the CDs to the store and arranged for him to accidentally fall down several flights of stairs... several times... I suggest you to do the same. It's about all that you can do.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:5, Interesting)
The police couldn't do anything until I pressed charges against the person who stole them. Then they came in and seized the remaining books. 6 months later, they were returned to me.
Suffice it to say, I'm not really friends with that person anymore. But, they did admit to it, and were willing to give the store the money back to get the books back. But the store wouldn't even do that. They wanted to sell them for full price. The remaining books would have cost more than the entire lot was purchased at by the store. In the end, I was more upset with the store than the person. I still won't return to that book store.
Re:issue? (Score:4, Interesting)
Someone at the company where I work got his car broken into. This was caught on the security camera. The guy pulls up in a red Toyota pickup, throws a rock through the window and steals everything inside. The license plate on the pickup truck was clearly visible on the security tape. After the tape was turned over to the police they went to the truck owner to investigate. His response: "I loaned it to my daughter's boyfriend." The police didn't even bother to follow up on what should have been an open and shut case. Never investigated the boyfriend, nothing.
Fine, the police don't have a lot of resources, they're underpaid, they have a tough job, they're understaffed, they work long hours. At the same time, they should be counted on to solve the easy crimes even with limited funding and they just won't do it.
From now on, their complaints are falling on deaf ears for me. They can't be counted on to do their jobs even when a case is handed to them. If they won't even make an effort to protect the citizens they're supposed to, why should I make an effort to care whether or not they have decent benefits.
Meanwhile, my dad got a ticket for wearing his seatbelt improperly from the local police(wearing it under his arm instead of over). I feel so much safer now that nasty lawbreakers like my dad have to pay fines for things that don't hurt anyone but himself.
Similar but better in Australia (Score:2, Interesting)
A few years ago my appartment was broken in to while my flatmate and I were away over a weekend. Anyway, I had a bunch of CDs and videos stolen, but since I wasn't insured (soon rectified) and didn't think anything could be done, I didn't report it to the police at first. Anyway, after a few days I decided to report it, and they asked for a list of everything that was taken, which I could actually provide, since I kept a spreadsheet with a list of all my CDs. A few days after that a detective called back and asked me to come in to identify and pick up my CDs - basically, the thief had sold them all at the local CD exchange, and I got about 75% of them back. I was quite surprised but very impressed. And because you need to show your drivers license or similar ID in order to sell second hand goods, they could track down the guy.
I don't know what happened to the thief in the end, as they never called me to testify in court or anything, but I was particularly impressed at the good work of the local police. And since then, I've seen the police in the same shop either picking up stolen property, or have seen the shop confiscate a bunch of CDs from someone who was trying to sell them, because they exactly matched a list of stolen items that the police had provided to them.
Another reason I'm glad I live here and not in the USA.
Re:I won't be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:issue? (Score:1, Interesting)
Ah - he that plays law enforcement is the primary target of the system. There's nothing the cops hate more than someone pointing out they've failed in their job.
Had a neighbor remodeling a house a year ago winter. I got it condemned (abandoned - took five years to finally get the city to move on it) and he bought it for close to nothing, which is $2 more than it was worth. He'd often come in at 4:30 or 5AM to work on the house a few hours before going to his job. One morning as he was installing new plumbing in the basement, two kids that were looting half the neighborhood (everybody told the local police which house they were in, but the police said they were too understaffed to do any surveillance or get a warrant to check the house) broke into the basement through a side window.
My neighbor confronted them when they came into the room he was in and broke the arm of one of the kids in a fight after they attacked him. He got cited (he was an adult, they were minors, though 17-year-old street trash at 5AM is hard to tell apart from adults). As usual, a "quota" officer (minority female) was the one who wrote him up, telling him she wasn't a judge and was going to write everyone up for the domestic dispute (this is what you get in the US with a white male property owner, minority criminals and same-minority officer). Fortunately the charges against him were dropped, but the kids walked as well. Sadly, not only is the lack of law enforcement failing all of us, but it's failing these kids as well. They're left to mature to violent crime and a major sentence before the system corrects their behavior.
Put down the donuts and the AIM, boys. Your communities are falling apart.
RE: insurance, police and stolen goods (Score:3, Interesting)
He actually was able to call his own cellphone and the thief picked up the line! It sounded like he had a number of ringing cellphones in the background, and appeared to be talking from his place. The thief wanted to work out a deal where we'd leave him a few hundred bucks at a pre-arranged drop off site, and he'd "trade" us back for the stolen goods!
(The best we could tell, this guy was going around looking for all the cellphones and other goods he could find in cars, and waiting for people to call their phones so he could "bargain" with them to scam them out of some cold, hard cash too.)
My friend tried to get the guy to agree to meet up with him in person at a local Denny's (and of course, was going to have either local police, or at least a bunch of friends waiting) - but the thief didn't go for it.
Failing to get anywhere that way, he reported the crime to the police - who basically did nothing, despite my roomate being able to log onto his cellphone provider's web site and get a detailed list of calls made that night. (Yes, the thief was actually calling all his friends on the stolen phones and chatting with them!)
He got all his credit cards cancelled, got a new driver's license issued, and of course, had the phone shut off -- but to this day, he never got a thing back. It's obvious the police never even tried, since this was a case practically handed to them, ready to handle as a "no brainer".
Re:not this old urban legend again (Score:2, Interesting)
So, just to be clear, you are perfectly a-ok with businesses knowingly selling you defective products that can cause serious injury or death? Remember, the lady wasn't scalded, she was burned to the bone.
As individuals, we pay consequences if we knowingly put someone in danger. Reckless or drunken driving comes to mind. But why should businesses be exempt from responsibility? Why don't you go to the homes of those people who's families were killed by faulty Firestone tires and tell them, "See, this is a capitalist country, so rather than suing Ford or Firestone for knowingly putting you at risk, just boycott the companies. That'll teach em!"
In the United States, the courts have found that a business has the same rights that an individual person would. But thanks to our Republican and Libertarian minded friends, regulations are hard to pass or enforce. And now thanks to the gullible and naive buying industry propoganda, companies will be shielded from any kind of meaningful responsibility by so called "tort reform". But tort reform doesn't do a shred of good for consumers, all it does is shield companies from paying for their negligence.
Re:issue? (Score:3, Interesting)
Its really sad that the best guys in our legal system are too busy making sure than a billionaire doesn't illegally make a couple thousand extra bucks in order to ensure the longevity of their own careers. Unfortunately for these kids, theres also a good chance that they won't even make it to the system -- they'll get shot dead by a homeowner that owns a gun.
These kids need to play more Grand Theft Auto 3.
put 2 and 2 together (Score:3, Interesting)
I'll be shopping at EB, will you? (Score:2, Interesting)
My point is that this happens at all game stores, not just EB. There's no more reason to boycott EB than their is to boycott Gamestop, GameCrazy, or any other place that sells used games. If you buy a used game, you have to know that there's the chance that it was stolen.