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Games Entertainment

Do Videogame Skills Transfer To Real Life? 207

macshune writes "Lately, I've been wanting to try my hand at firearms, just to see if a youth spent playing Duck Hunt and an adolescence playing FPS games has given me a preternatural shooting ability. This got me thinking, do videogame skills, both reaction-based and of other kinds, transfer to real life? My friends that play D&D are good storytellers, but do games like Counter-Strike build teamwork skills? Inquiring minds want to know!"
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Do Videogame Skills Transfer To Real Life?

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  • by ceejayoz ( 567949 ) <cj@ceejayoz.com> on Monday March 15, 2004 @07:46PM (#8573613) Homepage Journal
    My first time flying, we flew through a cloud layer heading back to the airport. I flew the approach perfectly, only having to ask where certain knobs were on the kind of plane we were flying.

    I definitely wouldn't have been able to do that without the hours and hours I spent on MS Flight Simulator (many of which, admittedly, were spent ramming into the Sears Tower in my Cessna :-p).
  • by PeteyG ( 203921 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @07:50PM (#8573634) Homepage Journal
    I consider myself a pretty good shot (in CS, Day of Defeat, Quake, etc). However, about a while ago I had the opportunity to fire several clips (or magazines? I forget) with a 9mm pistol in a large group of other first time shooters.

    When we got the targets back, and the scores were compared, I was significantly below average. I am quite certain that I was well above the average of that groups FPS skills as well.

    On the other hand, my good friend, who was a computer gamer but NOT a very good FPS player, joined the military and quickly earned expert marksman qualifications on both rifles and pistols.

    There is absolutely no correlation.
  • Yes they do (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @07:52PM (#8573661) Homepage Journal
    They most definitely do. The problem is they get no respect. For example, only people with exceptional leadership and social skills can become great captains in a game like puzzle pirates. But you can't put that on your resume. You'll only get hired on the rare rare rare chance that the person hiring is a player.

    Of course other skills go over as well. Problem solving, hand eye coordination, etc. etc. But in this world nobody will care unless you've done something "real".
  • Definitely (Score:5, Interesting)

    by neostorm ( 462848 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @07:53PM (#8573663)
    I'd say that many skills from gaming definitely transfer to real world scenarios. Things that I have noticed personally are elements of resource management from RTS's applying to efficient living in the real world. Critical thinking and decision making can be taken away from nearly any game, from snap-decisions in FPS games to strategic ones in Strategy.
    I'm not so sure about social skills, but efficient team work definitely grows when playing a team game, regardless of the genre.

    Something I've noticed before is that it's not so much the subject of the game that is conveyed to our minds, but the mode of thinking that are minds are forced into after hours of play. We begin to think more like machines, efficient decisions, precise moves, cunning strategies, and these roll over into the real world more than raw knowledge (which is something that edutainment hasn't really touched on yet).

    I'd have to say that physical actions are something that have very little chance of transferring to the real world, though. Games are nearly an entirely mental experience, and the player is usually quite detached aside from the usual hand-eye coordination. Firing guns and playing sports are entirely different actions on the screen and off.
  • Firearms (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Usquebaugh ( 230216 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @07:55PM (#8573700)
    It depends on what type of shooting you're doing.

    Twitch as in skeet or practical pistol, will probably be helped by anything that improves reaction time and hand eye co-ordination.

    Logic as in 1500yd or three positional will probably not be helped by having a lightning reflex.

    The important question of shoot or not shoot is probably fucked up beyond all recognition in those that play FPS.

    "Well officer, the victim suddenly popped up from behind a crate so I fired a warning shot through her chest. Better safe than sorry"
  • Laser Tag (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Hythlodaeus ( 411441 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:02PM (#8573768)
    The hands-on aspects of aiming and firing guns probably has nothing to do with FPS skills. On the other hand, I see a strong correlation between people who play FPS's and those who are able to effectively use cover in RL Laser Tag games.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:06PM (#8573810)
    FYI - The USAF gives half-time credit for flight sims including PC based ones like MS's. I.e. spend eight hours on a sim and log four hours of whatever craft you were flying.

    (Posting AC as I've already moderated in this thread.)
  • by gruntled ( 107194 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:22PM (#8573954)
    I agree that you'll never learn to properly aim a firearm via first person shooter; in fact this is one of my primary arguments against those loons who say Doom and its ilk teach kids how to shoot. No sights = no training.

    I have, however, actually taught people to sight using a light gun. The sighting is somewhat less accurate than you'd get with a real weapon (light guns are more charitable), but you can definitely learn the principles of accurate shooting. I hadn't fired a weapon in nearly 20 years, but was impressing the hell out of my future father-in-law three months ago using a heavy frame 22 pistol, something I largely attribute to continued practice with light guns over the years (although the fact that I was on the pistol team in college may have had something to do with it).

  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:23PM (#8573956)
    I'm fairly certain that the game "Driver" on the (Playstation 1) saved my life - or at least my car.

    When you're cruising around the city, Driver is fairly similar to Grand Theft Auto - with the notable exception that the traffic behaves realistically and tries to obeys all the rules of driving - including stopping at intersections for lights. The result is that if you drive up some streets at the wrong time, you get a *lot* of heavy cross-traffic.

    At first, when I was driving like crazy and encountered a car in the intersection, I would often swerve the wrong way. If it appeared from the left, I'd swerve to the right. Of course, because we were both moving, I'd T-bone the car almost perfectly. Eventually I learned to judge the speed of the cars and swerve towards the rear of them if their speed was sufficient compared to mine - because I'd have a much greater chance of passing behind them.

    Then, one night in real life, as I was driving home on the highway - an elk ran across the road. There was a car in the left lane in front that had just overtaken me, blocking my view of the left lane. The first I saw of the elk was when it entered my lane just in front of that car - it was moving very fast from left to right across my field of vision - several car lengths in front of me.

    My instinct was to swerve to the right, but I didn't. I knew that if I did that - and based on the speed that it was moving - I would hit the elk straight on. I swerved left... car submarined to the right, tires loaded up, started squealing... my right wing mirror practically touched the beastie on the backside as I narrowly avoided it... and I straightened the car back up again without going very far out of my lane.

    If I'd done nothing, I would have hit the elk on the passenger side of my car. If I'd swerved right (what I know I would have done pre-"Driver"), I would have hit it dead-center at 65mph, a 600lb fully-grown male elk would have come through the windshield of my bottom-of-the range subcompact car - and I'd probably have been made dead. I still think that luck had a little play, but the game "Driver" definitely taught me the reactions that I needed to have in that specific circumstance.
  • by GameGod0 ( 680382 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:30PM (#8574015)
    I've been an avid FPS gamer since The Catacomb Abyss come out (I was 6 at the time),
    and in the past 3 years I've started playing paintball.

    I can tell you, being a FPS player gives you no advantage over any other paintball player.

    In fact, it might even act as a disadvantage, because playing paintball is so drastically different
    both tactically and physically from playing a game, that it is nothing like one would expect it to be.

    Paintball plays nothing like a FPS.

    In the reverse argument (and going back on topic), I think being a good team leader
    in paintball has enabled me to become a better leader in team-based online FPS games.
    I was able to practically learn better leadership in real-life, and apply it to computer games.
  • by srmalloy ( 263556 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:39PM (#8574082) Homepage
    The staff at places like Air Combat USA [aircombatusa.com] have repeatedly admitted that people who play air-combat simulations, particularly against real opponents, do much better in the mock combat they present. One of the things that is the most difficult to learn is SA (Situational Awareness) -- the ability to keep track of where the other plane is relative to yours when both are maneuvering, with the basic ACM (Air Combat Maneuvers) being secondary, and air-combat simulations give the opportunity to learn those skills without the penalties that failure in a real airplane would produce.
  • by Cecil ( 37810 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:47PM (#8574145) Homepage
    Perhaps the USAF has more lenient standards. The FAA, on the other hand, has not licensed MS Flight Sim. 2000, at least, had numerous painfully glaring flaws in its physics model when I tried it. Everything from turbulence to clouds to icing, ground effect, all sorts of things were lacking or poorly implemented. Yes, I am a pilot.

    X Plane [x-plane.com], on the other hand, is FAA-certified. In fact, its physics model is so extensive that it is able to determine handling characteristics based on aerofoil shapes (and has been used to model such characteristics before). It still isn't quite realistic in every regard, but it's a far sight better than MS Flight Sim.
  • Re:Laser Tag (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Clomer ( 644284 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @08:51PM (#8574179)
    I work for a laser tag arena as a marshal, so I play RL laser tag fairly regularily. I also enjoy FPS games like Quake 3 and UT 2004. I have noticed a definate correlation for the kinds of skills I use in both.

    As I watch people play while I am on the job, I marvel at how some people are basicly clueless as to how to effectively use the cover that is provided in the arena. I doubt such people play FPS games on a regular basis, if at all. OTOH, there are people that instinctively use the cover effectively, and in many cases it's people that had never played before. I wouldn't be surprised if they do play FPS games, or perhaps have military training.

    How this translates to useful real life skills I don't know, but there is something to be said for being good at on-the-spot tactical thinking.
  • by directrealist ( 754205 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @10:24PM (#8574837) Journal
    americas army uses thier video game for exactly this purpose. it is a research tool to investigate if squad based virtual combat will make a soldier that accels "better" in a number of different catatgories. They are not really interested in whether motor skills can transfer. they know they dont and have plenty of research that supports this. the ability of motor skills to generalze to novel situations is well known and somewhat easily predicted. if the simmilarits of the game are close enough to the real thing then the skill will transfer. the question of what is close enough is a minute detail question. common sense can do wonders here, too much theory can muck it up. riding a virtual bike with a joystick is not a skill that will transfer to being able to balance on a bike. but chosing a good route through an envoronment will. the lattter is a more cognitive task the depends on being able to execute the more motoric task of riding a bike. I know studies have shown that general reaction time to targets is improved with fps videogame use but actual transfer of skill such as shooting (aiming at targets) from fps games to actual targets has not held up under scrutiny. you may have a better awareness of targets in a visual field but you will be no more able to shoot them than the average joe. cognitive skills transfer more readily to novel situations than do motor skills. Most of what will transfer from a video game will be cognitive unless the new task involves using a joystick or keyboard/mouse in a simmilar way.
  • by vthome ( 21702 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @10:56PM (#8575082) Homepage
    Sure they do. I believe my life was saved quite a few times by hundreds, if not thousands of hours I spent playing Need For Speed series. My reaction to the situations was, every time, reflexive... How many times did you put your car into a controlled skid in real life? How many times did you manage to do a 180 degree turn and bring the car to a complete stop without losing control? Do you know what is lift-off oversteer? Can you make your front wheel drive car oversteer? And so on and so forth.
  • by wibs ( 696528 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @11:14PM (#8575235)

    Depends on the video game. America's Army obviously has nothing to do with motor skills, but I have a friend who in high school was nothing all the special, wasn't a jock and if anything did more to support the Area 51 arcade games than probably any other man alive. The arcade owner most likely retired because of him.

    Well, to make a long story short, after high school he joined the army. No previous weapons experience of any kind. During weapons training for the M16 (just like in Americas Army) he shot hawkeye (that's 40 hits out of 40 possible targets... somethng like 33 hits qualifies you for sniper school, I think). He did a few years of bouncing around various elite army schools (special ops training in the phillipines, sniper school where he would spend literally days inching through the grass to take out a target, etc etc) before heading off to Bosnia, where he had multiple confirmed kills in Bosnia as both recon and a sniper. He later hooked up with some underworld elements and became essentially a hit man for a very large gang in Long Beach (one that you've all heard of), and currently is up near the top of the list of people in organized crime in LA and Orange counties, despite his young age, all because of his abilities to shoot stuff and shoot stuff well. He's also one of the quickest people mentally I've ever known, but nobody would have noticed that if it hadn't been for his skills with a gun.

    I'm not going to go into the morals of what he does... he's good to his friends, but not loved by his enemies - I've seen the bullet holes in him to prove that. The point is that with no arms training of any sort other than arcade games he was able to almost instantly become a sought after crack shot. And, in his own words, he credits that to his many, many, many hours of Area 51 and video game firearms in general. I'm not sure if I believe that, but it's what he says and if anything I'm telling his story on the conservative side so people don't think I'm bullshitting it.

  • Re:Laser Tag (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Grym ( 725290 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @11:14PM (#8575243)
    Absolutely.

    On my summers, when I was still in High School my parents would take me to Hilton Head where they had a deathmatch laser tag setup. Between my experiences in paintball for a couple years and playing FPS games since Wolfenstein I would absolutely clean house. Even the owners were impressed when I would beat them when they would cheat by wearing two vests or putting clothing overtop their sensors.

    Tactics learned in deathmatch FPS games are vital for a good laser tag player such as: keeping on the move, learning the movement/attack patterns of other players, reducing the ability of your opponent to hit you by changing height (ducking or going to one knee) or rotating your torso to present a minimal target, randomly increasing or decreasing your speed to throw off the leading of other players, and most of all, establishing kill-priorities (knowing the chances someone has of killing you in a situation, so you can kill your opponents in the most efficient order.) Nearly none of these are skills you can learn outside of laser tag or first person shooters in civilian life.

    There is no doubt in my mind that these skills, given some further refinement, would easily transfer over to real-life combat situations. In fact, if you want proof, look at the game America's Army. It makes perfect sense that the army would want to attract FPS gamers because of this.

    -Grym
  • by badfrog ( 45310 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @11:20PM (#8575287)
    Actually, it was kind of disturbing after 9/11 to realize one of my favorite tricks on Flight Simulator II (Sublogic, before purchased by Microsoft) was to try to fly BETWEEN the WTC towers.
    It was tricky too... Had to get completely sideways with enough speed to get level again.
  • by dchamp ( 89216 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @11:37PM (#8575413)
    I was at a private LAN last summer, out near f-stick Nebraska. My friends there were mostly very good FPS players - DoD and CS. They totally own me at FPS games. I can hold my own against them in BF42 and DC, but that's a different skill set...

    The guy hosting the party took us out for some real target shooting. We started with a Ruger 10/22, moved up to a 20 gauge, a 12 gauge "pumpo", and finally a high-powered 7mm rifle (not sure of the exact size, but it was BFG, much larger casing than a 30-06).

    I grew up with BB guns, pellet guns, .22's and 12 gauge shotguns, but I haven't done much shooting for the last 10 or 12 years. Other than our host, none of the other guys had any significant experience with a firearm.

    On round 1 with the .22, the host and I were the only ones to hit our targets. Once we moved up to the scatter guns, some of the others did better. With the 7mm, the targets (pop cans) were WAY out there. I only hit one by skipping debris off the ground in front of it. :) Nobody else hit one.

    I do agree that gaming does have some skill transfer to meatspace... like strategy, or driving / flying skills from a simulator (only as a complement with the real thing), but without some real-world practise, I don't think FPS games directly transfer to real firearm skills.
  • Re:I don't think so (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Grym ( 725290 ) on Monday March 15, 2004 @11:40PM (#8575438)

    Bullets in games don't ricochet, and shooting at brittle objects nearby (concrete walls, for example) never seems to spray you with high-velocity debris, nor does shot bounce around dangerously in enclosed spaces with hard surfaces.

    I had the opportunity over the summer to talk with a solider in the U.S. Special Forces, and, being a paintball player I asked him some questions regarding actual combat.

    What surprised me the most was when I asked him how they handle people at the ends of long hallways. I know from paintball and FPS games that this can be one of the most frustrating situations.

    He told me that what they do is "skip" bullets off the walls so they don't actually have to come around a corner to shoot the other soldiers. I immediately asked him "So, real bullets will bounce off regular walls if you shoot at a shallow enough angle?" His response? "You're daaamnn right they do...", with a smile.

    That's an idea that I found very interesting because I've never seen an FPS game that tries to mimic this, and it's not really applicable in paintball where the balls have to be soft. I really hope that some games/mods in the future try to model this kind of stuff because it would definitely have an impact on the tactics and realism of the games.

    -Grym

  • by macshune ( 628296 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @12:14AM (#8575632) Journal
    One reason I submitted this Ask Slashdot was because my ass has been saved by video game skuh-zills in the past.

    Right after I got my license a few years after age 16, I had a truck and too much testosterone. I was driving down this long, paved road out in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden I see the stop sign someways off. Now, I'm going about 80mph on what is little more than a long driveway. I hit the brakes and they lock up. All of a sudden I felt like I left my body and did some weird shit with the steering wheel and the stick-shift. All I can remember is something about Daytona USA. When I regained conscious control, I'm about four-feet away from a telephone pole near my door, in the gravel with a car just 10 feet away from my front bumper, probably wondering what the heck is going on.

    I suppose this means I did the mother-of-all powerslides without flipping my truck or ending up smashed and possibly killed.

    There are other stories too... But yeah, I believe that at least some video game skills transfer to real life, especially sega race car skills:)
  • My Experiences (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jorkapp ( 684095 ) <jorkapp&hotmail,com> on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @12:19AM (#8575671)
    I've had my fair share of experiences with Game Skills Real Skills. Here's probably the best 2 (and recent) examples I can provide.

    2 Months after joining the Royal Canadian Air Cadets, and a nice safety course later, I was finally cleared to use the rifle range. I had about 2.5 years skill with FPS games, and 0.0 seconds skill shooting a rifle.

    My FPS skills did not transfer over. None whatsoever. An FPS teaches you to move a mouse and press buttons on a keyboard. Shooting a rifle requires actual movement. You actually have to squeeze the trigger (not pull it), adjust the sights, reload, and aim. In a FPS, you click the mouse. Big difference.

    After 4 months of Practice, I have earned Marksman 1st class qualification. Basically, 20 shots at a range of 10m (32.8ft) were inside a 2.5cm (1 in - about the size of a quarter) diameter grouping. Not an easy task.

    As for flying, I had no experience. Zero. No Flight Sim skills, no real life skills, hell, I hadn't even been more than 30m above ground. After months of Ground School and passing the exam (barely, with a 50%), it was time for a flight.

    About a week after the flight, my flight instructor burned me a copy of MS Flight Sim 2000. Everything I learned in real life transfered over. Controlling the Eleveators, Ailerons, Flaps, Throttle, Rudder, and other Aircraft controls is a breeze, thanks to the months spent learning how to do it properly.

    I suppose to conclude, some skills do, and some skills dont. You have to look at the complexity of the task in real life vs the complexity of the task in the virtual world. Shooting is complex in real life, but overly simple in virtual reality. No transfer. Flying is difficult in real life, and flying is difficult in virtual reality, so there are some transferable skills.
  • by Quadfreak0 ( 624555 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @12:26AM (#8575716)
    Play FPS games and racing sims has improved my reaction time. I'd also say the level of gore and violence has some what desensitised me to violence. I remember watching 'Black Hawk Down' with my friends, and while those who played quake and BF1942 were laughing it up the non FPS friends and the rest of the crowd glared at or glanced with that "wtf is wrong with you" look. Sorry but if you've made a couple head shots, you've seen them all. War isnt fun but this is just entertainment. Recap: 1. Better reaction times. 2. Less likely to be suprised.
  • by CashCarSTAR ( 548853 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @02:20AM (#8576171)
    #1. Twitch skill. Raw reflexes.

    #2. Strategy

    #3. Teamwork, patience (and hopefully) maturity

    Yes, maturity. I play a lot of Natural Selection, a team-oriented half-life mod. Actually, the team play in that is pretty hard. A lone player (called a rambo) will get killed pretty quick, and be unable to do pretty much anything.

    In other words, the little kids who don't want to play as a team get killed, get frustrated than leave.

    Just my opinion.
  • Re:Definitely (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Flozzin ( 626330 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @03:18AM (#8576317)
    After playing CS since beta 6, and now this year playing indoor paintball. I found that my tactics and leadership from the game transfered easily. I was able to direct my friends into excellent positions in the game, and in paintball. Also my 15 years shooting small game on my dads farm helped with my aim.
  • Re:I don't think so (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ChTh ( 453374 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @05:08AM (#8576595)
    The swedish army is about to start using Ghost Recon (ink in sweidsh) [www.sr.se] as a means of training its officers. The part in games related to tactics and decision making is probably a lot more useful to real life, rather than actual physical skills.
  • Re:I don't think so (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @08:40AM (#8577115)
    Sorry but you don't play the same fps as me, download Americas army and play it for a few weeks, bullets ricochet, you have to reload, you have to clear your jams, you have a readiness meter that drops when you are being shot at, and trust me when your pinned down with a saw and bits of the wall and bullets are flying past you, it feels like your world is falling in . You can also bounce bullets and nades of walls or floor with the ricochet effect, when a nade goes of close to you and you live you cant hear a thing for a few minutes and the same effect with the flash bangs but add that you cant see as well, this makes for one very real game. You must id your targets, players don't have there names above there heads, like other fps games. You'll also see that players learn not to shoot at targets they cant id as you get penalised for shooting team mates .As you have one life you don't get players running Rambo, and if you do they don't live long. I will give you an example of the game play im pinned down in a ruin, the enemy is on top of a hill over looking it, I move out and fire afew shots at him,(this will drop his cem) he moves behind the ridge for cover, at that moment I run to the bottom of the hill( the hill he's on) as he still thinks im in the ruin he's not going to look over, I toss (you can toss or roll as well as throw nades)smoke nade at the ruin just to keep him interested then I move and flank him put the gun in he's ear and kill him, my point is this game teaches tactics so in some respects you can learn from games.
  • by SuiteSisterMary ( 123932 ) <slebrunNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @10:42AM (#8577858) Journal

    One day, some mates from my CS course and I went paintballing, just for kicks. None of us had gone. One girl brought along her boyfriend, who was formerly of the Austrailian SAS.

    It was interesting to note that he either always died first (generally while trying to get the rest of us into some sembalance of a good formation and cover) or died last (generally after singlehandledly annihilating most of the other team.)

    It was also interesting to note that we throughly trounced the squadron of 'weekend warriors' who played every week, had their own equipment, and thought themselves pretty bad-assed.

  • by zero_offset ( 200586 ) on Tuesday March 16, 2004 @01:49PM (#8580020) Homepage
    I'd say many skills do transfer (such as driving), but shooting absolutely doesn't since shooting in a game doesn't remotely rely upon the same real-world skills required for shooting an actual gun.

    In one of the Doom 3 speeches or interviews last year, Carmack pointed out that they made the Doom 3 targeting code highly accurate, and everyone in the office was stunned to realize that they were really, really bad shots... And you KNOW those guys have a hell of a lot of FPS seat-time...

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