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CESA Boss Talks Japanese Gaming Problems 44

Posted by simoniker from the come-to-worship-him dept.
Thanks to GameSpy for its interview with CESA executive managing director Kazuya Watanabe, as the head of the "game industry's trade organization" in Japan discusses issues such as the Japanese games industry's dislike of the used videogame market: "Used software sales are now legal and covered by the law. Despite the fact that the court has passed judgment, the software manufacturers are still not satisfied with the outcome because of the high percentage of used sales in overall Japanese game sales." He also addresses the perception that many Japanese PC titles are adult-oriented: "They stand out. They do not have a large market, but they catch your eyes. If you look at that, you may think, 'Boy, these Japanese are very strange.' It is not the case."
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CESA Boss Talks Japanese Gaming Problems More

CESA Boss Talks Japanese Gaming Problems

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  • Lots of game manufacturers (and retailers) seem opposed to used game sales (especially for pc games). The game store that I frequent has had a remarkably smaller used game section the last few times I've been. No pc games, and only a single bin of used XBox and Playstation games. They are also giving very little money for trade-ins, only a few dollars for even relatively new games. Anyone else notice this trend?

    • That's the main reason I don't usually buy used games. They generally aren't much cheaper than new ones, and it's usually easier to wait for a sale someplace like gogamer.com than to pay for a used game. That, and the fact that you're right about them giving squat for the games I try to trade in. It's just not worth it.

    • Re:Used games (Score:2, Informative)

      by MMaestro ( 585010 )
      No pc games, and only a single bin of used XBox and Playstation games.

      First, I assume you mean PS2 games just for clarification. Secondly, most retailers are reluctant to take PC games on a used basis because it is extremely risky (I'll get back to that later). Thirdly, retailers give very little money on trade-ins because thats largely how they make a profit. The most money you can get on a trade-in without using any special deals? $25, and thats only if the game is a new release/still highly priced. What

  • This guy knows his stuff. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Naffer ( 720686 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @08:00PM (#8865008) Journal
    From the article:
    "Also, ownership is an important component of American culture. People do not like to buy things unless they feel that they own it with no strings attached"
    How is it that the head of Japan's major video game trade group has more insight into American consumer desires then our own trade groups?
  • He also addresses the perception that many Japanese PC titles are adult-oriented: "They stand out. They do not have a large market, but they catch your eyes. If you look at that, you may think, 'Boy, these Japanese are very strange.' It is not the case."

    Now, I'm just about as tolerant as I can be about cultural differences, and I don't look down at another culture's adult entertainment any more than I would judge them by the clothes they wear.

    But there is a reason why there isn't an english translation f

    • Re:Japanese? Weird?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by WolfWithoutAClause ( 162946 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @08:39PM (#8865317) Homepage
      But there is a reason why there isn't an english translation for hentai.

      It literally means 'pervert'.

      I think you are trying to make out the Japanese to be more different than they really are- for example, the tentacle rape is just a side effect of their weird legal system (no human penises allowed, no sex between women and animals either, but sex with imaginary creatures apparently falls into a legal grey area... go figure!); and the apparent youth of the manga characters is illusory- the Japanese consider the characters to be older than Americans do- there are some cultural differences relating to reducing sun exposure in Japanese women and physical differences that tends to make them look younger to western eyes than they really are. You cannot really condemn Japanese Hentai manga unless you understand the environment that it has evolved in.

      I mean, the Japanese may well consider LA porn to be barbaric and offensive (you can see pubic hair?)

      • Indeed... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Senjutsu ( 614542 )
        I mean, the Japanese may well consider LA porn to be barbaric and offensive (you can see pubic hair?)

        I'm not sure that the culture that created "Max Hardcore" has any business commenting on the supposed strangeness of other country's porn. Who was the comedian who said "The first time I saw a Max Hardcore film, I didn't know whether to jerk off or call the cops"?

        Most of the oft-sighted strangeness of Japanese porn either has a direct analogue in our porn, or is otherwise a product of the strange obscenit

      • Re:Japanese? Weird?? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Pluvius ( 734915 )
        the tentacle rape is just a side effect of their weird legal system (no human penises allowed, no sex between women and animals either, but sex with imaginary creatures apparently falls into a legal grey area... go figure!)

        It's interesting--I'm sure the reason why the censorship laws were made was so the citizens wouldn't become corrupted by porn, but I'd bet that the Japanese are more screwed up by what resulted from the laws than what would've happened without them.

        Of course, I don't think the fact tha
        • My (limited) understanding is that most, if not all, of these porn laws were created by the Americans in charge of rebuilding the country after WWII. Extremely sexually explicit Japanese art goes back at least a few hundred years, if not much longer. The American occupation was the first thing to really dampen that tradition at all, AFAIK. Doing some brief googling, an article describing some of this art is here [theblackmoon.com], and a (pretty explicit) example can be found here [wae.org].

          Not sure I would really say the they 'screwe
      • the apparent youth of the manga characters is illusory- the Japanese consider the characters to be older than Americans do- there are some cultural differences relating to reducing sun exposure in Japanese women and physical differences that tends to make them look younger to western eyes than they really are.

        This is not true. Many characters in hentai manga are in high school, even middle school. I couldn't count the number of manga where the main character is 14 and appears nude or in sex acts.

        The sex

        • How can you assume they are underage, when they are not in photo images of real human, but merely some drawings born from imagination? Do you insist on 'human rights' of those imaginary drawings? It seems your view of the world is perverted enough to confuse real world with virtual world, or free speech.

          Surely there are cartoons that are intentionally made to look like underage, but if you read Japanese language you'll find that none of them explicitly state that they are underage by themselves. Even with
          • How can you assume they are underage, when they are not in photo images of real human, but merely some drawings born from imagination?

            I don't have to assume. Characters in middle school are not adults. characters in school living with their parents are not adults. Characters who have their age explicitly stated as under 18 are not adults.

            Do you insist on 'human rights' of those imaginary drawings?

            No. Where do you draw that inference?

            Surely there are cartoons that are intentionally made to look like

  • Used media.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CashCarSTAR ( 548853 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @08:20PM (#8865164)
    The thing is, even though I support fair use rights, there is a point in this. Used media, of all types, games, software, movies, music, is a killer of sales.

    In fact, more than P2P, it's my personal observation that this is where the real damage is to producers.

    Think about it for a second..sales of used media are pretty stable, if not increasing. This does one of two things..

    #1. It prevents a new sale on something that is still sold shrinkwrapped.

    #2. Even on obsolete media, it's taking valuable entertainment dollars out of the market.

    It's #2 that I'd be concerned about, more or less. People only have so much to spend on entertainment, and theoretically, it would actually be better, for example, for a consumer to spend that 20 bucks going towards a new game, and download the older game, than taking that money out of the potential market for their product. Now that's no guarentee that it'll work out, but you gotta be bold, be confident I guess.

    Now, I buy used media myself, and get it at a good price. (Buy 2 DVDs get 2 free) Even though I know it's hurting the producers, as long as they focus on piracy, and those scare tactics, instead of going after those stores, frankly, I couldn't care less.

    But it IS hurting them.
    • I'm sorry, but that's just completely wrong. Used sales isn't a magical black-hole of entertainment dollars. If I sell my game to someone else, I have more money to spend on the latest new game. Your entire post falls apart if you take that into account.
      • But it's not a 1-1 gain, at least with video games. You trade in a game for what, 10? 15 bucks? Then they sell it for 30 or so. I think that's how it goes. So that's 15 dollars sucked out of that economy. Not AS much, but it still hurts.

        In any case, if you didn't notice, when I referred to it as media, that's including music and movies, where such trade-in, just isn't as prevalent.

        I think that game rentals, in the long run, hurt more than used, at least in that particular market..not because that most vid
        • The $15 profit that is gained by EB games or Gamespot isn't sucked out of the economy either. Companies don't just gobble up money. It returns back as investment or is given to shareholders as dividends. Granted it's generally not in gamer hands anymore unless you consider the gamer's paychecks that it's providing.

    • Re:Used media.. (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      [...] I could
      n't care less.
      thank you, thank you, thank you!
    • Yup, and the used VHS market is KILLING Hollywood. And don't forget rentals, where hundreds of people basically share a couple copies of a title. I bet that is killing the DVD and console game market. Down with Blockbuster!! /sarcasm
    • > it's taking valuable entertainment dollars out of the market.

      maybe, but you know where those valuable entertainment dollars go? Right back into the pockets of the consumers, who then procede to spend it on other goods and services. The harm in this case is against the consumer, who should have a right to control physical property that he has purchased. It's a DVD, not a license to play the game on the DVD, that people are purchasing.

      I don't see why we have to engineer these controls to make the

      • Maybe so. And I think that consumers do have the right to resell their property.

        But I think it highlights the madness that is going through regarding things such as emulation, for example. Offering it for download for free is baaaad, but re-selling it and making money off of your work is good?

        Yes, there's a legal difference. But if the media groups want credibility, they have to be honest.

        Re-selling is perfectly legal. It's also hurting the industry much more than any sort of P2P or casual copying.

  • Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @08:29PM (#8865243)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re:Used games (Score:3, Insightful)

      by realdpk ( 116490 )
      I'll buy GBA and PS2 games used, but I won't buy PC games used typically. I would not want to buy one with a CD key that is locked out from online play/updates.

      So the solution, in my eyes, would be for the publishers to incorporate keys into their console software. They'd have a real uphill battle doing that though (for everything but the Xbox and very few PS2 games, its not as though entering your CD key is going to get you anything)

  • Nintendo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by swat_r2 ( 586705 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @08:36PM (#8865297)
    Didn't Nintendo try to shut down the Game Rental industry back in the eighties? I've always wondered how much rentals have cut into sales. Then again, you don't expect to buy a car (or date a girl) without test driving it first :)
    • Nintendo has recently implemened a loyalty system called Club Nintendo [nintendo.jp] where you earn points for every NEW game that you purchase. Inside the game is a slip of paper with a code on it that you enter in the web site to earn points for your purchase. The points can then be spent on various Nintendo collectable goods. A used game would be unlikely to include this code thus I have always been persuaded to buy the new game instead.

  • Most Japanese PC games aren't hentai? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:06PM (#8865508) Journal
    I could've sworn that I read somewhere that a very high percentage of Japanese PC games are hentai due to the lack of popularity of PC gaming in Japan (i.e. consoles take care of the "real" gaming, so only the leftover crap makes it to the PC). Maybe it was a bad source?

    Rob
    • Watanabe actually says that hentai games are a small part of the whole video gaming market, not just the PC market, and that PC games aren't handled by their rating system anyway.

      Rob (At least that's what it looks like; he wasn't completely clear)

    • Re:Most Japanese PC games aren't hentai? (Score:4, Informative)

      by dancingmad ( 128588 ) on Wednesday April 14, 2004 @09:52PM (#8865831)
      Actually, my girlfriend has worked on translating U.S. PC games to Japanese (Deus Ex and Northland). Nearly everything we get comes out there, eventually. It's not lack of quality per se, but Japanese don't like playing those type of games (a sentiment I share).
    • If you go to game shops in Japan, many many many low-quality porn games exist, but sales are tiny for each title. I'm sure that in the USA there are more porn films than normal ones (Squid Orgy XXVIII etc) but the mainstream stuff sells much more.

  • no rentals for games in Japan either (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Spatula Sam ( 770957 ) * on Thursday April 15, 2004 @05:46AM (#8867311)
    Here in Tokyo I've always found it weird that while CD rentals are very popular and perfectly legal, Game rentals are banned and nonexistant. Can you immagine the massive hissyfit the RIAA would throw if people could take their favorite backstreet boys CD home for $2 and copy it to their MD players? And yet the gaming industry here is petrified at the notion that users might be able to try out the latest 100-hour RPG game for a night.

    Maybe the game industry in Japan just has more legislative clout to get the government to give it control over users, but I doubt it given the size of the music industry here.

    I wonder if maybe it's just that historically the reason so many more games are available in Japan is because so many of those games are very, very, crappy. If people are able to rent a game and realize how shoddy it is, maybe they would be discourraged from buying the product. This same thinking might explain the crusade against resale -- a much larger chunk of the gaming pie here consists of titles that are simply worth the wait for buying used.

    • There are CD rentals here, at least where I live. They are at a place called the Library. They have a lot of this things called books; however, they also rent out Movies and CDs for around $1/day or so.

      Check it out sometime.

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