Christian Game Developers Conference Plans Gathering 237
Thanks to GamerFeed for its story noting the Christian Game Developers Conference has announced its third annual gathering, to be held in Portland, Oregon on July 30th-31st. The official CGDC site has more information on the expo, which "officially expands to include card, board and paper game developers alongside interactive electronic entertainment." There's also word from conference organizer Tim Emmerich of GraceWorks Interactive: "We... plan to examine the variety of games currently on the market and successes in other media such as 'The Passion of The Christ' and the 'Left Behind' series, which proved that Bible-based products can do well in the market if they are well made."
Does this mean... (Score:2, Interesting)
That was absolutely the best ever game to license the Wolfenstein engine. Fire apples at sheep to make them so hungry they sleep. Peace on the ark, but I'm not sure what this taught me about Jesus.
Re:Does this mean... (Score:2)
It's a delicious rumor, but do you have a source for it?
For those paper games... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:For those paper games... (Score:2, Funny)
How about Call of Chthulu?
Makes me think of... (Score:5, Funny)
What was the game the Flanders' kids had? "Billy Graham's Bible Blasters" or something?
Well-made? (Score:3, Interesting)
Well-made? Do Christians use different standards of judging craft than non-Christians? Asked another way, have you ever tried to read any of the Tim Lahaye books? If you seriously consider any of the books in the 'Left Behind' series to be well-made, that I can't wait to see some of the games that come out of this conference.
Re:Well-made? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nope. We use units sold or dollars grossed, just like everyone else.
And by THOSE measures, "Left Behind" is Shakesphere.
Re:Well-made? (Score:3, Insightful)
"Left Behind" is Shakesphere
Shakesphere? Sheesh. But poor spelling aside, how is this post Insightful or Informative? Are you out of your fucking mind? Left Behind doesn't measure up to a good issue of Spider-Man, let alone Shakespeare. And this comparison is utterly asinine in the first place. Star Wars Episode I made more money than all the Shakespeare productions worldwide for all time have ever made. By this poster's logic, George Lucas
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Filmmaker, not author.
And, really, when we get right down to it, sales ARE our only solid measure of quality. So, if _Lucas_ has sold more tickets than any other filmaker--then, yes, he is the greatest.
That said, I wasn't discussing people, I was discussing works. And, by a lot of measurements (gross sales, cultural impact, extant fanbase, number of fans), Star Wars is "the best movie series EvAR!"
Re:Well-made? (Score:3, Interesting)
Ah, yes, that's why I'd rather scarf a Big Mac than go to a fine French Restaurant.
Sales are our only solid measure of popularity. Call me a dirty elitist bastard, but popularity and quality are two very, very different things.
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
You pay more for the fine French Restaurant, right? Then they make better _meals_.
But if a McDonalds makes more total than that French Restaurant, then they're a better _Restaurant_.
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Well said!
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
But if a McDonalds makes more total than that French Restaurant, then they're a better _Restaurant_.
So if I opened up a restaurant serving up McDonald's excess food from yesterday that they threw in the garbage (ignoring legalities) for $50 a plate, would you say my restaurant made better meals because you paid more?
Re:Well-made? (Score:2, Insightful)
Hey, religion may be an opiate for the masses but I guess there's still some things the secular world will always do better.
Re:Well-made? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Like everyone else? I am hoping that you are being sarcastic. No one else that I have ever met in my life would equate quality with "units sold or dollars grossed."
If you aren't joking, then I humbly submit that Hinduism is "better" than Christianity based on the same logic, and that Roman Catholics are "better" than Baptists because there are more of them.
Oh, and when the followers of Islam outnumber the follwers of Christianity (and
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
What does that make Hinduism? Mountain Dew or 7-Up?
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Note the corrections. A religion is not people.
Catholics aren't any better than baptists, but if I have to choose between them as markets, then the one with more money is obviously the better choice.
Oh, and when the followers of Islam outnumber the follwers of Christianity (and it will h
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
>>Do Christians use different standards of judging craft than non-Christians?
>Nope. We use units sold or dollars grossed, just like everyone else.
Personally, I use other standards to judge craft. High sales figures do not mean something is not crap. By my standards of literature, the Left Behind series is a steaming pile. Bad writing coupled to bad theology may sell to the uneducated, but that's not going to turn it into quality literature. As I recall, there is also a Biblical injunction a
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Well, the two-dimensional charakters and the overall flatness of the story would lend itself to a 2D-sidescroller...
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Re:Well-made? (Score:5, Insightful)
Too many places try to blur the lines between business and religion and use the sentiments of the buyer to out way the quality of the product. It is something I get frustrated with in all forms of Christian media.
What the real kicker is is when something starts getting popular and is being produced so that it can compete in the secular market, it is often looked at as selling out... and may get shunned until it gets picked up by the secular market as the next best thing, then, it gets pulled back in and its shown as a great example of Christians producing popular stuff.
I have never seen a group so backwards and in a bubble as Christian entertainment.
-Tim
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
I have been active the last couple of years trying to help with the Christian dance music industry as well as having worked at the largest and most famous Christian childrens video series.
Not to defend myself, just to give more clarity where I come from.
-Tim
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Christian music is STUPID. Absolutely DUMB.
Jesse Smith of Zao once said something like there are no Christian donut makers, so why should there be Christian musicians? That is why Zao stopped being a Christian band and became a band with four Christian guys in it. They then began to produce better music (until they wanted to quit but had two more albums left on their record deal...).
I cannot stand music where every song is about how cool God is, or is emo about how the singer's girlfriend broke up with
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
I do think there is a place for good, overtly Christian music. I just think there is too much of an emphasis on it.
There are actually some good Christian industrial flavored bands. Its just nobody finds out about them because the industry keeps that stuff burried. If you are into that stuff, Cornerstone always has a decent showcase every year, as well as plenty of fluff to bring in everybody else.
-Tim
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
It's already been done. The oldest one I know of is Argyle Park, who put out the album Misguided with the classic tune "Misanthrope." Sadly it is the only good tune on the CD.
I am agnostic, but I grew up in a Christian family and I fully agree with you about the music and other products. I think it is much more productive to sell products made in a way that supports your beliefs, rathe
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
And yes, even as a Christian I can't understand the desire for things like Christian breath mints(Testamints, they are out there) and other stupidly marketed "Christian" items. Makes no sense whatsoever to me, but apparently to someone it does....
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
I know there is some good stuff out there, but the industry as a whole is extremely broken. It seems to be a self perpetuated mass of 10 year old ideas and praise and worship albums. Every now and then somebody comes in and stirs them up.
Over half my music collection is Christian artists, I jsut feel they have lost a lot of ground that they were gaining back in the 90's. Some songs I listened to back then could probably be getting air
Re:Well-made? (Score:2)
Great insight. I would mod you up if I could.
You have GOT to be putting me on ... (Score:3, Insightful)
The "Left Behind" series of alleged Christian sci-fi books" is, not to put too fine a point on it, hackneyed crap. The fact that they do well in the market is more a result of tightly targeting them on the large evangelical Christian demographic group than the quality of the writing.
Re:You have GOT to be putting me on ... (Score:2)
Re:You have GOT to be putting me on ... (Score:2)
How Christian is Christian? (Score:2)
Re:How Christian is Christian? (Score:3, Funny)
Um... Doom?
Re:How Christian is Christian? (Score:2)
Re:How Christian is Christian? (Score:3, Interesting)
Anything based on The Matrix.
The thing I see about making videogames based on Christianity is that interactivity is a problem. How are you going to make - for example - an RPG based on the story of Moses? If there's only one way to complete the game, then anybody who's read Exodus will get it instantly... if there are multiple solutions, you're questioning Scripture. Suppose you took control of an army during a well-known battle like Gideon's... what happens if you lose? CAN you lose? SHOULD you be able t
Little do they know, or maybe they do... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, they probably do know this, and it's just an attempt to get money for something or someone(s), somwhere. One must admit, that wouldn't be out of line with the actions of "religious" groups in the past.
Good times (Score:3, Funny)
Some people don't get it (Score:5, Insightful)
Quite simply the more games mature the more "adult" they become.
They same has happened with books, movies, and music.
Christian music is not what it is today because it has Christian lyrics, it was started as a clean alternative to the music of the day.
If mainstream music stayed "clean", Christian music would never have become so popular it may never have even been a seperate category.
The same will happen will books, movies, and computer games over time.
Computer games have slowly "matured" where it is not uncommon to have swearing, adult topics, etc, etc.
Christians don't desire to have "Christians" games(or any other type of media) so much as games that don't go against their moral beliefs.
Sorry for the disjointed post.
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:2)
I beg to differ. "Christian popular music," more particularly, "Christian Rock," "Christian Metal" and "Christian Rap" were specifically invented to 1) allow Christian youth to think of themselves as "kewl," and 2) as an attempt to proselytize.
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:3, Interesting)
My main reason for listening to Christian music was not to be kewl, it was because alot of the music of the day went against my beliefs, plain and simple. A lot of other people felt the same way. I would also attribute the rise of country is the 90s for the same reason.
>Those who really like Rock, Metal and Rap consider the "Christian" variants to be laughable at best, pathetic at worst.
Yes, all "Christian" artists s
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:2)
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:2)
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:2)
Because many times the pop music is offensive to me. So I choose not to listen.
The question is: Is Christian music with it's lyrics(not the music
If it is, then don't listen to it.
If the lyrics are irrelevant to you, or at least if Christian lyrics are irrelevant to you, then there may be some artists who you would really like.
Re:Some people don't get it (Score:2)
view. Waterdeep did great alt-rock. I think they
are still around. Sufjan Stevens rocks my world
right now.
Do these people have a CLUE? (Score:2)
Re:Do these people have a CLUE? (Score:2, Funny)
Was it? Or maybe, the problem was that your faith was not strong enough...
"proved that Bible-based products can do well" (Score:5, Insightful)
"Christian Rock"
"Christian Books"
"Christian Film"
and now "Christian Games". These usually turn out awful because
A:They're more concerned with evangelizing the audience than with telling a good story or being entertaining. And
B:The people making them are Christians first and producers of art/media/content second. It usually comes out like it was produced in a church basement by people with left over bake-sale cookies and a very inflated sense of relevance.
Sure they'll tell you that "OF COURSE we're Christians first above all else." But we all have rolls to play in life. You don't see any Christian Football Players. No, you see Football players who happen to be Christian.
If you want to build "Christian Games" then first concentrate on the game, the message comes second (or forget it). If you build Christian morality into something like for instance the Sims (community, teamwork, tolerance, sharing, caring generosity, etc.) then you'll have a great Christian game that's for everyone and teaches Christian values to the masses. So much better than a preachy Christian game for Christians that re-cements their already well indoctrinated beliefs.
Feel free to replace "games" with "music", "books", etc. above.
Re:"proved that Bible-based products can do well" (Score:4, Interesting)
For example, I could make a strong argument that U2* was both good art *and* religiously preachy.
Similarly, C. S. Lewis' Narnia books were reasonably good art and quite religiously preachy.
* U2 was a rock'n'roll band popular before some of you were born, and after some of you were in college.
Re:"proved that Bible-based products can do well" (Score:2)
FUN (Score:4, Funny)
The Adventures of Young God
Moses vs Hoover Dam
The Great Whale Escape
Sodom and Gommorah Sims
Santa vs The Israelites
Jesus Chainsaw Massacre (aka WWJD Smackdown)
Let's hope they're more fun than... (Score:2)
Did you know Sunday Funday was just a graphics hack of Menace Beach?
Also see: Bible Adventures. [seanbaby.com]
"GOOD WORK! BUT YOU FORGOT BABY MOSES!".
Yeah, I'm sure the passion of the christ will make for a great game, with the player controlling Jesus, and.. getting beat up and stuff?
Now, if you could switch to Robot Jesus, Ninja Jesus, or Hyper Jesus, then we'd have something...
SimEarth? (Score:2)
Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
But there are some fundamentalist denominations that believe that thought and deed are equal; this is the root of a lot of the objection to pen-and-paper RPGs, or so I've heard: that imagining you are doing something ungodly, like casting a spell, is tantamount to actually casting a spell. (From a more rational Christian standpoint, of course, this is absurd.) But it stands to reason that there will be some people who want to exercise thei
Yeah, but can you paint? (Score:2, Insightful)
Quite frankly, the problem with most Christian software is that it's not fun or well made. The problem with most Christian novels is that they're poorly written, and (dare I say...) the problem with most Christian music is that it's ju
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Yay. (Score:3, Informative)
Ever noticed how everybody talks about how great, say, "Left Behind" is? It's really not that great of a book - compare it to other popular (not-Christian) books out there, and, well, it's pretty...meh. But it's supposedly the best Christian book ever (well, besides the Bible ^_^). I think that it's not because all Christians are awful writers, but there just in a smaller pond - rarely is Christian stuff compared to non-Christian stuff, and Christian stuff is usually lower quality. I guess what I'm getting at is, well, being the best author ever on your block isn't saying as much as the best in the country.
And I think this "Christian games" thing is blown out of proportion - in all my life, I've seen around 10 Christian games, never at "big" stores, just at Christian bookstores and the like. But its supposed to be the next "Christian music" - which has hundreds of singers and stuff, and can be found at my local Wal-mart. It could very well be because lots of Christians (NOT ALL - don't take me the wrong way) usually take a bit longer to "warm up" to new stuff, in my opinion (and in a LOT of personal experience).
I'm not expecting Christian games to be anything big anytime soon. I mean, I've still seen Wisdom Tree's NES games for sale. And if and when Christian games are anything more than ripoffs of other game and Disney-style "activity centers", I doubt they will be as good, simply because there's fewer people interested in making them and buying them.
Just my two cents.
Good grief. (Score:2)
Conflicting Christian Denominations (Score:2, Funny)
Last Year's Disaster! (Score:5, Funny)
I hear they got an injunction against him this year though. For all the trouble he caused me, he could be rotting in a grave for all I care.
funniest. game. ever. (Score:3, Interesting)
Essentially, the player played as moses leading the jews out of egypt as in Exodus, but what was really funny is that you walked around as this moses character and shot and killed the egyptians with the "word of god" wich was just this W that you shot out.
The game itself was actually quite terrible, but it was so bad that we all have a good laugh popping it in every once in a while.
Of course i'm suprised that they are going to think about having anything to do with pen and paper games, which is so closely related to D&D, because as everyone knows "Dungeons and Dragons, Satans game..." (if you don't know what i'm talking about check out Dungeons and Dragons, an 8 bit re-enactment [cybermoonstudios.com])
The one I am really looking forward to ... (Score:5, Funny)
In the name of Jesus and with the blessing of the Pope, invade countries that are your technical, scientific, and cultural superiors, slaughter the inhabitants, and on the way there, get rid a few of the Church's main Christian rivals.
The other one that looks good is Witch Hunt:
In the name of Jesus and with the blessing of the Pope, go whole hog on S/M: Randomly pick women to torture, rape, and murder (not necessarily in that order). Women who have helped liberate France from foreign invaders get extra points!
I've heard there is a newer version of that called Stone the Homosexual, but then I'm probably going to get modded down enough as it is.
Seriously, people, where does this idea come from that Christian games will be any more tolerant, life-loving, or enlightening than the past 2,000 years of Christian history have been?
a Chronicles of Narnia RPG (Score:2, Interesting)
Wish I had 50 mod points for "troll" (Score:3, Insightful)
I guaruntee you that for every pompous putdown and ridicule based rant here you'll find another in some "religeous right" forum that you'd gleefully quote as to say, "See what jerks these guys are?". So who's the "deluded fool" then I gotta wonder? Who's more closed minded?
Re:Christians? (Score:3, Funny)
"Hey, Jee, what's wrong?" asks Moses, concerned.
"Well you see, it's just been so long since I 'did my thang' that I'm starting to wonder if I've still got what it takes to maintain my reputation as the Son of God."
Moses looks sympathetic. "Well, you know, Jee, there's only one way to solve this. Let's go find out!"
So Jesus and
You're close.... (Score:2)
Re:Bring on the bigots! (Score:2)
Theism is faith in presence; atheism is faith in absence.
Re:Bring on the bigots! (Score:2)
Look it up. [reference.com]
You are thinking of agnosticism, which asserts that the knowledge of the supernatural that would be required to choose either theism or atheism cannot be known by humans, e.g., both positions are bogus.
Atheism is the paradoxical doctrine that implies that atheists can and have investigated the supernatural realm which they believe to not exist, and the knowledge they found as a result of their investigation of this non-existent realm is that God isn't there.
Re:Your argument (Score:2)
If that's not the height of irony and/or stupidity, I don't know what is.
--Jeremy
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it require a leap of faith to believe that there is no flying purple people eater? Or the Tooth Fairy?
No, common sense and the sum real-life experiences of the entire world will tell you that neither exist. Same with "god", sorry to tell you.
This 'atheism is a faith too!' argument has cropped up lately as a pathetic meanns for christians to counter atheism. Doesn't work.
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:3, Insightful)
You're doing the same thing. (Score:2)
Wait a minute... which ones? It seems to me all of them come to differing and mutually exclusive conclusions. Most acknowledged atheists look at this and deduce that the truth must be the intersection, namely THE EMPTY SET.
Unless religion and dieties are somehow a socially-local phenomenon. Which is interesting in and of itself (which means athe
Re:Get over it. you've got the faith (Score:2)
In walking I have faith in gravity to pull me forward as I lean forward, and that my leg will have enough strength to stop me when it hits the ground. I have to believe that what I se
Re:Get over it. you've got the faith (Score:2)
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
No, it is by definition a faith that there is no Deity. You are confusing it with agnosticism, which does lack faith.
The greek prefix "a-" means "non-", so an atheist is someone who is a non-theist. What is a theist [wikipedia.org]? One who has faith in God(s) and/or Goddess(es) who created the universe, etc. So an atheist or non-theist is one who doesn't fit into that category.
This is logically a contrapositive [wikipedia.org]. If A implies B then the contrapositive of
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
Oh, to keep on-topic... These games will blow.
Re:Nothing semantic about it (Score:2)
You're effectively diluting the word 'faith' (and 'religion', by the way). 'Faith' used to be a word that actually meant something, and you want to use it to mean anybody who has any thoughts about anything. Which, actually... I'm fine with. Go right ahead. Less word power for the christians.
Re:Nothing semantic about it (Score:2)
The faith that there is no God/Goddess/etc certainly counts as that.
Set of beliefs and practices. That's an inclusive 'and,' there.
Pray tell, what are some of the practices of the athiest religion?
And as for the discussion at hand -- I'd recommend that people check out Full Armor Studios. Their 'Walls of Jericho' is a pretty slick game.
--Jeremy
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2, Insightful)
Nonsense. Do you believe in fairies? The Easter Bunny? Is there an invisible, bloodthirsty unicorn hiding behind you right now, waiting to pounce?
I certainly hope the answer to those three questions is "no". It does not require "faith" to believe that there is no Easter Bunny. It is simply that there is no evidence to suggest that the Easter Bunny actually exists, t
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:3, Funny)
Is there an invisible, bloodthirsty unicorn hiding behind you right now, waiting to pounce?
Why, yes. Yes, there is. But he likes me. He really likes me. He didn't like my roommate. No, he didn't. He didn't like the police officer, either. Oh, no. He didn't like them at all.
Strangely enough, the other police officers didn't believe in invisible unicorns either. But they never could prove he didn't exist. They never could prove...anything.
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
From Carl Sagan's Cosmos, p. 212:
"If the general picture of an expanding universe and a Big Bang is correct, we must then confront still more difficult questions. What were conditions like at the time of the Big Bang? What happened before that? Was there a tiny universe, devoid of all matter, and then the matter suddenly created from nothing? How does that happen? In many cultures it is customary to answer that God created the universe o
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
If you're going to pick on faulty logic, may I suggest you start with your own?
atheist = faith in (not god)
Which does not logically follow. Allow me to prove why:
1. definition: theist = faith in god
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
Thanks, man... excellent work.
Re:Atheism a faith like any other (Score:2)
Fine, fine. (Score:2)
b) I'm suggesting more the latter. But also that I don't think it's a worthwhile topic of discussion unless you are simulataneously considering my argument that the "Christian Entertainment" industry hurts itself by isolating itself. I didn't see the foot (It's Funny, Laugh) icon, so...
c) You have to read all MY posts with tounge fimrly planted in cheek. Seriously. And re
I also think we have a double standard here. (Score:2)
2) I can't say "Christianity is dumb", I'll get modded into the floor.
Statements 1 and 2 are opinions. Statements 1 and 2 are opinions often held by nerdish people. So why the double standard? Does everyone assume that it's not okay to put down peoples beliefs that have nothing to do with technology?
In this case the fields intersect. I don't think I should be modded down for expressing my opinion, especially in this case.
And just cause I'm
Re:I also think we have a double standard here. (Score:2)
Re:Sympathy for the Christian Gamer (Score:2)
It's a classic example of christians ignoring the actual content and instead getting all hung up on the most obvious of labels. If they actually held any strong beliefs on restricting their
Re:licensing options (Score:2)
Somehow I think that playing as Christ would be somewhat lacking in gameplay options...
Re:licensing options (Score:2)