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Portables (Games) Communications Handhelds Entertainment Games Hardware

N-Gage QD Review - No More Side-Talkin' 117

Posted by timothy from the mumble-louder-please dept.
jasoncart writes "After the apparently poor uptake, and questionable design of the original N-Gage, have Nokia taken the hint when designing the next model - the N-Gage QD? Ferrago has a hands-on review."
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N-Gage QD Review - No More Side-Talkin' More

N-Gage QD Review - No More Side-Talkin'

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  • I don't get it... (Score:5, Funny)

    by cbrocious ( 764766 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:38PM (#9479739) Homepage
    What was wrong with the original? Doesn't everyone like looking like they're talking into a taco?

    • Re:I don't get it... (Score:5, Informative)

      by ProudClod ( 752352 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:47PM (#9479786)
      You may laugh, but nokia's official featurelist for the Ngage now includes "sidetalkin'"!
    • who really cares? if you think that makes you really 'out' maybe you have problems a phone can't solve? it's just an easy punchline to say in a review or slashdot post "OMG TACO".

      it's not like you're talking into a makeup box like with xelibris.

    • What I don't get is why Nokia didn't design it like the 6810 [nokia.com]. The 6810 even has a joystick! Just replace that keyboard with a DPad and buttons, and you'd be in business. Instead they thought that everyone would want to talk into something that looked like a reject from a Fischer Price factory. Go figure.

      • They didn't design it like you suggested because you have more clue than Nokia

        • Re:I don't get it... (Score:5, Informative)

          by AKAImBatman ( 238306 ) <akaimbatman@gmaYEATSil.com minus poet> on Sunday June 20, 2004 @09:05PM (#9480454) Homepage Journal
          They didn't design it like you suggested because you have more clue than Nokia

          While that's an easy stance to take, I feel I should point out that the 6800 series of phones are also built by Nokia. Therefore someone in Nokia must have a clue, it just doesn't appear to be the ones who designed the N-Gage.

          Perhaps the real problem with the N-GAGE form factor is that Nokia tried to pack too much stuff into it. The N-GAGE does games, Java, MP3s, Radio, Bluetooth, IR, and a bunch of other junk all while trying to be a phone. At the very least, the standard battery simply wouldn't be powerful enough for more than a half-hour of game time. A single game could result in serious draw by the following devices:

          - Main CPU
          - Bluetooth processor
          - 3D GPU
          - FM Digital Signal Processor
          - LCD Color Display
          - Standby GSM communications

          Between all of those, I wouldn't be surprised if the power draw was somewhere around 3-10 Watts! ("Standby" power draw of a phone is usually less than a Watt.) You'd need a Laptop battery to power the thing for any appreciable amount of time. If Nokia had simply scaled back the device in a few areas, they might have had a good shot at a first gen device. Instead they overengineered it and guaranteed failure.

          BTW, I think I know why you have to remove the battery to change the game. The Nokia engineers were probably stumped by the issue of making the user reboot the handheld before changing the cartrige. Game systems like the NES and Gameboy would actually lock the cartrige when they were turned on. Nokia's solution was to instead force people to remove the battery. This guarantees that the phone will be shut off when the cartriges are swapped and circumvents the requirement for a mechanical switch to lock the cartrige. It was still a dumb idea.

          • They did jam a lot into it, but there is absolutely no IR support on the N-Gage. There is also no 3D GPU -- it's all software rendering based around its main CPU, which is why it takes 144Mhz to do anything close to a PS1 level of graphics.
            • There is also no 3D GPU -- it's all software rendering based around its main CPU, which is why it takes 144Mhz to do anything close to a PS1 level of graphics.

              Yeah, I realized that after posting. It's a 104 MHz ARM processor that does both 2D and 3D. Granted, that's more power than my 486 had back when I was running Doom, MechWarrior, and Wing Commander 3, but it seems like it wouldn't quite be enough to port something like Red Faction. I'm guessing they take the old "cheat like hell" route. ;-)

              but ther
              • Red Faction for the NG was a big pile of suck. It was like RoTT, but with far worse graphics, no handling, and impossibly shitty graphics.

                The N-Gage has no business running 3D games.

                Sadly, the best parts of the N-Gage were removed from the QD. I listen to the radio a lot on mine, and use it for a lot of MP3s and other media (especially since I can't sync my iPod what with the sbp2 layer being broken in Linux 2.6). My friend bought a Motorola V600. My N-Gage has 1mb more device RAM, the MMC slot, and t
                • Red Faction for the NG was a big pile of suck. It was like RoTT, but with far worse graphics, no handling, and impossibly shitty graphics.

                  Rise of the Triad? Oooo... now there's an insult if I've ever heard one.

                  The N-Gage has no business running 3D games.

                  I can't say I disagree. Good 3D requires a hellva lot more than pushing a few polygons. At the very least, you'd need a bigger screen for a better FOV. And programming for a dinky 104MHz ARM? Reminds me of the days of RayCasters and home brew 3D engin
                  • There's no way in hell I'd get a Nokia 6800 non-provider locked and non-subsidized for about 250$ CDN, or any other phone with a comparable feature set! The original N-Gage is a very attractive phone for this very reason.

                    The fact that it didn't do so well is an outgrowth of one simple fact: Nokia pissed off their target audience with their bullshit ads. Everyone was under the impression in was a shitty Gameboy with a cellphone involved (which is a more accurate description of the N-Gage QD).

                    If they had

    • Re:I don't get it... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20, 2004 @08:28PM (#9480162)
      Doesn't everyone like looking like they're talking into a taco?

      Well, I know my girlfriend likes it when I look like that.
    • Exactly:
      And, joy of joys, the ear-piece is on the front! No longer shall the Nokia owning mobile gamer have to slink away to a darkened corner before answering his phone to avoid the notoriously embarrassing 'you're speaking into a taco in public' scenario.
      I can now often be seen talking into doors and thin air with me Nokia 3200 - yes, I am sad at times ...
    • I didn't mind the idea of sidetalkin' on my phone. In fact, one of my biggest gripes about the treo 600 is that there's a good half-inch chunk of real estate on the front face that could be used for a larger screen or (god willing) some landscape-mode buttons if it weren't occupied by the speaker. Why not put it on the side? Or the back? Or anywhere but where you're trying to cram a screen and full keyboard.

      I think the sidetalkin' hype has blinded Nokia to the major problem with the device-- namely, th

  • I won't buy this one either (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I will never buy a gaming system as a cell phone. The screen sizes and device sizes for the two devices are mutually exclusive. Give me an mp3 player in my nokia 8260 sized phone or don't bother.

  • No longer looks like you're talking into a taco! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:40PM (#9479747)
    Now it looks like you're talking into a hot pocket.

  • No new security? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Now and then N-Gage jwarez appears on p2p networks. So do they really profit or are most users pirating the games?

    Well, at least they weren't sucked into the (proprietary) GNU/Debina hype.

  • Yep. (Score:5, Informative)

    by ProudClod ( 752352 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:45PM (#9479770)
    Another games reviewer here. Got mine yesterday morning from the lovely PR people. It's a much nicer bit of kit than the original - almost all the design flaws are sorted and fixed, and there appears to be a wave of halfdecent games on the way.

    I wrote a postmortem of the original N-Gage [gamerseurope.com] [google cache] [66.102.11.104] which details what the QD fixes - I would add though that the QD is by no means a 'small' phone, it's almost the width of an old Nokia 1610!

    • You know when the nokie n-gage was first released I had a vision of it eventually reaching these heights [amazon.com] . You tell me when I can dance on the subway drunk at 4 am against the vibes on Berlin or London subways for prizes and cash. Until than, they have not released a product that satisfies my blue suede shoes.

  • Going/Has to Bomb (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Askjeffro ( 787652 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:45PM (#9479777)
    Is Nokia just stubborn? There is no way there little thing stands a chance, even with this "revision". It's time to cut their losses.
    • Do you mean it's not going to sell 100 million units like the GBA? No individual phone model does. I hardly think Nokia are kicking themselves for failing to do things they've never intended to.
    • Although I've not used an N-Gage, I get the impression that it's more of a console with a built in phone, than a phone that can play games. Just about every other mobile-phone has games on it. Making it look like a handheld was nothing more than a marketing gimmick. I suppose Nokia desperately wanted to be up there with Sony, Nintendo, et al so much that they forgot that it was a phone - hence the side-talking.

  • No matter how good it is I'm not getting one (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Zarks ( 783916 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:46PM (#9479779)
    I just want a small simple phone that does phone calls and text messages. MP3 playback is good but my MP3 player does that better and cheaper. While the N-Gage looks quite cool its not going to fit in your pocket that easily. I'm going to keep my gaming to PC's for now. When they can invent a phone with a 19" screen, 3D accelleration, a mouse and a keyboard that fits in your pocket easily, I'll buy it.
  • having to take out the battery to change carts. Ill probly pick one up when they hit 100 bucks or so

  • Lost the Advantage. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by hethatishere ( 674234 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:51PM (#9479801)
    Nokia lost it's chance with both Nintendo and Sony having shown their offerings and strutted their stuff who will even care for an updated design to the N-Gage?

    Not many considering the only time gamers really talk about it is how cool "it could have been" and how ugly it is. Making it less ugly doesn't increase it's chances in a market which since the original's launch is clearly going to see some strong competition in the "high-end" portable gaming market.

    • Re:Lost the Advantage. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @07:03PM (#9479875) Homepage Journal
      "Nokia lost it's chance with both Nintendo and Sony having shown their offerings and strutted their stuff who will even care for an updated design to the N-Gage?"

      There's still a niche market. If I could get a cell phone that plays decent games for under $99, I'd consider it. Now that they've gotten some of the major issues out of the way, it might be worth another look.

      Would I sell my Game Boy Advance SP for it? Oh hell no. But I do enjoy the odd game on my cell phone from time to time. Why? For the simple reason that my phone goes with me everywhere. My Game Boy... well it sits around my apartment. Maybe I think to grab it if I know I'm gonna be waiting somewhere.

      So no, I don't agree that nobody will care. However, I'm not optimistic enough to think they could reach millions of units sold. They're going to have to figure something out to make it that popular. Maybe that'll happen? They have the whole wireless thing going for it. Multiplayer gaming could be cool. Who cares if only 10 thousand are on the market, nation wide, you can still find somebody to play against.

      The reality is that it's probably dead. Pity, they had some of the right things in place. One way or another, I do feel that cell phones will have more gaming capabilities down the road.
      • "Would I sell my Game Boy Advance SP for it? Oh hell no. But I do enjoy the odd game on my cell phone from time to time. Why? For the simple reason that my phone goes with me everywhere. My Game Boy... well it sits around my apartment. Maybe I think to grab it if I know I'm gonna be waiting somewhere."

        I think you have unintentionally struck on why these will never work. I had never really thought in this line, but when you carry your gameboy how many games do you carry? I know I carry a few usually. As you

  • Calling on my GBA (Score:3, Interesting)

    by freeduke ( 786783 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:54PM (#9479818) Journal
    There is no way for me to buy a portable gaming system from a cell phone manufacturer: on their first attempt, they did not even know where to put the cartridge. That seems to anounce bad new for the upcoming games, anyway, they have got the solution: if it is useless, you can still call a hotline!

    I will buy this kind of mixed system when Nintendo includes a cell phone in GBA.

    • I will buy this kind of mixed system when Nintendo includes a cell phone in GBA.

      I honestly doubt that Nintendo will ever do that. Nintendo tends to focus on features related to gaming, unlike other companies that put out "game" systems.

      • Maybe Nintendo don't need to. We've already seen portable media players from third parties, a third party GSM phone attachment would be priceless.

        Although with the current GBA-SP it wouldn't be very practical. You would need a second speaker (one which doesn't irk other people in your immediate vicinity) as well as a microphone, and the two would need to be on opposite sides of the device. That is one hell of a chunky addon module. :-(

        What I really, really, really want to see from the GBA-SP is officia

    • They knew where to put the cartridge, but that was supposedly to make up for something else they couldn't do competently: hot swap cards. They supposedly wanted to make sure the thing is off before a game can be swapped.

      It was still a lame attempt, if you've seen the switch-lock on the original Game Boy, you couldn't physically get the game in or out of the slot without shutting it off first.
      • What's really odd is that the OS can support losing access to the MMC while running because that's what happens when you plug in the USB cable.
      • Well, atleast Nokia Communicator (9210, 9210i in the European market) handled hotswapping mmc's just fine - infact, it neatly removed the applications that were on the mmc when it was removed, and readded them when it was inserted back.

        But, I don't make extensive use of this feature, so it might just be that it wouldn't work reliably in the hands of an active mmc swapper..
    • I will buy this kind of mixed system when Nintendo includes a cell phone in GBA.
      Count me in. I was playing with PIM development on the GBA + Ericcson keyboard [brolinembedded.se], but a phone addon with real PIM would rock.

  • Not good for a gamer (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fuxoft ( 161836 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:55PM (#9479827) Homepage
    As a GBA SP owner I was really underwhelmed by QD as a gaming machine (I tried about half a dozen games). - Both by quality and by LOADING TIMES (up to 30 seconds before you can start playing)! However, for the price, I think this is really useful phone for people who want to surf wap/WWW and send/receive e-mails. And have cool ringphones. :) I would be happiest if it was a little bit smaller and without the cartridge-based games capability. Also, you cannot connect it directly to computer and it doesn't have IR port. So if you want to transfer data from/to it, you must do it using Bluetooth or internet.

    • Re:Not good for a gamer (Score:4, Informative)

      by Kris_J ( 10111 ) * on Sunday June 20, 2004 @08:40PM (#9480268) Homepage Journal
      The loading times issue is actually quite interesting. In order to save money on the MMC card, some games are compressed. Sonic N loads straight away, it's not compressed. Tomb Raider and Pandemonium have loading times, they are compressed -- to just below 8MB if memory serves. If you compare the loading times of, say, TR to Crazy Taxi on the GBA (which is quite a technical marvel), they are roughly the same.

      • It actually makes me wonder what the memory size is for the NGage. I'm pretty sure the GBA SP allows at least 256 meg per pak.

        Anyone got any idea how much mem the NGage has?

        • The N-Gage's RAM is 16MB with 10 or 11 free after bootup. (The GBA has only 384k of RAM.) The MMC slot is known to be able to accept (some) 512MB MMC RAM cards.

          However, that's all missing the point. 8MB ROM cards are cheaper to make than 16MB ROM cards.

    • If you want just the non-gaming functionality, any of the series 60 phones will do it for you: Nokia 3650, 3660 (3650 with a standard keypad), the original 7650, 6600, etc.

  • I like the specs (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @06:57PM (#9479837)
    but why oh why can't they simplyfy the button layout for gaming? It's still a bitch to hit just the buttons you want. Would it be so hard to have a couple of buttons separated out or stuck out a bit more? I still don't really like the aspect ratio. It's not well suited for platformers or rpgs (but I'd love to see some horizontal shooters on it :).

    I remember nintendo saying they we're leaving 3D more or less out of the GBA because it's not well suited for small screens. That may not be entirely true, but I do think it's a bad idea to try and make a 3D portable console without consideration for the small screen size. They should take more advantage of the small size to 'cheat'. Take a look At King of Fighters R2 for the Gameboy advance. Could they really squeeze all of KOF2001 (more or less what it's based on) onto a 16 MB game boy cartidge? No of cousre not, but because everything is so small and low res, they can cut down on the detail in the sprites and it still looks good, because you're eye won't miss the details that much anyway.

  • try to do too many things, you're bad at all (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wyldeone ( 785673 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @07:00PM (#9479852) Homepage Journal
    While it is good news that Nokia finally got rid of that anoying problem with having to take out the battery to change games, but for any serious gamer it would be best to wait for the Nintendo DS or the Sony PSP. The NGage, trying to do so many things (mp3 player, game player, phone) cannot hope to do as well as something that is designed from top to bottom for games. Also, as Nokia has no prior work with gaming (other than the previous NGage) they do not have the funementals of a good game system down. Also, they have very lackluster support from third party developers.

  • I was really impressed by the first version until I found out about having to remove the battery to change games. Then when the QD came out I was disappointed that they had dropped MP3 support.

    Looks like I won't be getting a Nokia N-Gage this time round either and will happily wait for the Nintendo DS. Now if only the DS supported Java we would have ALOT of open source source software on a decent device! VOIP perhaps?

  • Nice phone/console (Score:2, Interesting)

    by N3koFever ( 777608 )

    I've seen this thing and the original in action and the improvement is vast. It make you wonder what the hell Nokia was thinking when they didn't do this the first time around and I'd definitely consider one if they got some decent games on it. You can have all the hardware in the world but it's worthless without software support which the N-Gage is horribly lacking in.

  • similar fate as PDA phones (Score:4, Interesting)

    by AlphaDecay ( 150156 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @07:18PM (#9479928) Homepage
    I think the NGage suffers from the same problems of convergence as PDA phones and probably limits itself to a similar, albeit smaller, market slice. Meaning, the people who buy PDA phones are those who would like to have both features but aren't particularly tied to the bonuses that the individual products can provide.

    I think PDA phones have it better in that the features provided are easier to do and less likely tot leave you wanting a stand alone device. Consider the gaming mentality though, gamers want faster, better graphics and more options. I definitely think this convergence device will (and has) have a hard time catering to that crowd.

    So in follow up, can Nokia maintain the product with such a small market segment? Considering the price of development (anyone know what royalties Nokia is tossing out?) I doubt they can maintain any sort of decent game library.

    --AlphaDecay
    • I think the NGage suffers from the same problems of convergence as PDA phones and probably limits itself to a similar, albeit smaller, market slice. Meaning, the people who buy PDA phones are those who would like to have both features but aren't particularly tied to the bonuses that the individual products can provide.

      This is true. I own a Treo 300, a convergence device made by Handspring (now PalmOne). It is huge, atracts funny looks whenever I answer or make a call, and fits awkwardly into my pocket.

  • As a NGage owner ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by snowtigger ( 204757 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @07:42PM (#9480011) Homepage
    ... I am a little sceptic to the new design.

    Yep, I'm using an NGage. Not because of the gaming stuff (which does increase the gadget value) but because it has a lot of nice features and was cheap to buy. It works both in Europe and the US, it's got Bluetooth and runs Symbian applications. Most of all, I really appreciate the radio function and being able to record songs I like when I hear them.

    Though I also find it funny, I have never experienced the "Dumbo effect". The phone comes with a nice handsfree and if that's not cool enough, you can always go for a Bluetooth headset.

    Personally, I wouldn't buy the new phone and I think Nokia is shooting themselves in the foot beleiving people will buy a phone only for the gaming capabilities.
    • I'm also an owner of the origional NGage for similar reasons.

      At the time I bought it here in the UK it was one of the cheapest smartphones available at only 100 pounds (about 170 dollars I guess). I liked that it was flexible as you could add a wide range of software to it. Also since it does so much it makes a wonderful tool/entertainment system that I always carry with me, something thats' very useful for passing the time as I commute on the train. With a 256mb MMC there's a lot you can do with it.

      I

  • As a phone alone, it is very nice, maybe a bit large, but the added functionality that symbian gives it might be worth it. The problem is still the game selection, who cares how cool the hardware is without any games?

  • Keypad (Score:2)

    by zors ( 665805 )
    Who else thinks that its a bad idea to have the keypad aligned horizontally instead of vertically. The way they have it you have to hold it like a game console to make a phone call, which makes it difficult to do while youre doing something else, and just a pain even during normal use. I know i would be irritated if i had to hold my phone with two hands whenever i dialed.
  • Was side-talking patented? If so that would be a brilliant example to show people stupid patenting laws, I only hope Nokia were just taking the piss when they put it on the feature list - surely it must have just been an internal joke, and maybe one of the engineers went and gave in a patent for a laugh? heh "back-side-talkin"?.. er.. no? Ok were screwed.
  • now, let's place bets on how long it will take to port netBSD to it!
  • Even though N-Gage QD has it's own SDK, I find it terribly sad that it only supports MIDP 1.1 and not MIDP 2.0 (improvements between the versions are mostly game related). I'm currently developing apps with the 2.0 lib, and the lack of support for it is reason enough for me not to buy an N-Gage.

  • No good games... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Sure, it's a great redesign... But all the system changes in the world won't change the fact that the games aren't worth it. Most are old, on other consoles, or just crappy.

  • It looks great (Score:3, Interesting)

    by lewp ( 95638 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @09:00PM (#9480423) Journal
    It's a beautiful little device, and I really want wireless head to head gaming. I have a T610, though, and doubt that I would want to replace it with this as my cell phone.

    Of course it's expensive enough to not be worth buying unless you do need it as a cell phone.

    I wonder how many people will pass it up for this reason.
    • I'd recommend waiting for the GBA DS or the PSP, you would probably get better value for your money out of them than the NGage for head-to-head gaming.

  • Mourning the death of the best feature (Score:3, Funny)

    by xsupergr0verx ( 758121 ) on Sunday June 20, 2004 @09:13PM (#9480490)
    The original Sidetalking! [sidetalking.com] website has started a petition to bring back the most hilariously awful feature in their phones yet.

    R.I.P. sidetalking...
  • i have one of the one step down models (the mp3 playing ones) but have also used the n-gage and despite them being pretty clunky the side talking thing is just a stupid internet craze...you can use them like normal phones and it works fine..honestly

    still i guess a more ergonomic design should be encouraged
  • It may not be the perfect gaming machine, but I don't want to carry around a laptop or GB all the time. When I wait in line for lazy government and large corporate employees to do their do nothing job I can play. Just think you can play a game while you wait in line at the post office and such. Pushing a dolly and having a GBA, Cell, and MP3 player is just too much. They have a niche market and they are going to keep it for a while. Plus anyone that knows J2ME can make games for it for free. Just look
  • The only place I've ever seen an n-gauge was at the Nokia booth at the Game Developer's Conference. Even there, it was considered to suck.

    Although the model that was 4' wide and actually worked was kind of cool.

  • I had the original unit in my hand for all of five minutes at a local game store and formed a list of complaints that closely matched the improvments made in the QD. I don't understand how a company could put out a product with such glaring faults, it's like Nokia never test marketed the product or asked the opinion of potential customers before finalizing the design.

    Is it really that hard to get good information from focus groups? I have been in a two focus groups in the past. One involved laundry deterge
  • There is already a much larger and higher-quality selection of Java games available for many more models of cell phone than the ill-fated N-Gage. There is also a much better choice of portage game devices to choose from. Trying to bring the mobile phone and gaming worlds together when it can't even compete with either is just a mistake waiting to be born.

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