Programmer Sues VU Games Over Excessive Work Hours

eToychest writes "According to Reuters, a video game programmer has sued Vivendi Universal Games, claiming he and his colleagues were regularly forced to work extra hours and denied overtime pay. The suit, filed Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court, is one of many filed against companies in the state in recent months, as employees seek to be classified as overtime-eligible to obtain compensation for working more than 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. The suit seeks payment of back overtime wages plus other damages. This comes the recent announcement that the company said it would cut more than one-third of its staff, excluding Blizzard. Of the things mentioned in the suit, the complaints include no overtime compensation, and employees being ordered to falsify timesheets to indicate they worked shorter days." This report is especially interesting in light of the recent IGDA 'Quality Of Life' survey for game developers.

It's about time ... but

[Dillenger69]

I'd say "yay for him". I'd sue too ... but.
there's absolutley nothing keeping them from moving the job I complain about offshore.

The way I see it. You can complain, win your court case, lose your job, ask people if they'd like fries with that.
or
You can work your long hours and take every ounce of free time for yourself during the day, just making sure to do a bit of a better job than everyone else.

the problem is...

[thebdj]

Many times when this occurs the employees in question are salaried employees. People who make a flat monthly rate are a bit harder to pay overtime for than your standard hourly employee. Also you will find that places will usually explain to those people that they may be required to work extra hours and perform overtime and this is usually seen in their pay.

Something I would really like to know is if any employers actually pay their salaried workers a bit more knowing they will have to work overtime or if they manage ways to pay overtime or give them extra time off for working the overtime. While quitting may not always be an option as finding a replacement job is not always easy, it is still available as a way to get out of these types of bad situations.

In reality it may come down to forcing states to once again rework labor laws. Since in almost every state salaried workers are exempt from overtime pay they can become slave labor and while some companies may seemingly be able to get away with this, it isn't good for the people they have working for them. While removing the exemption may cost some companies more money, the smart ones will simple hire more workers to lower the overtime load since that would be cheaper than paying someone to work 60+ hours a week every week.

Re:Last time I checked

[b0r0din]

Of course he can quit. That isn't the point of the article. The point is that the managers of the company were forcing non-exempt employees to work more time than they reported. It's ILLEGAL. Furthermore, IANAL, but I bet it qualifies as tax fraud as well.

Now, if these programmers were salaried, exempt, employees, the managers would be in a better position. But this wasn't the case.

The simple fact of the matter is that labor laws require employers to pay overtime to non-exempt employees. If the employee is right and managers were 'tweaking' the hours, it's illegal, and give the guy filing the suit credit, he had the balls to point it out.

Of course they fail to point out the other side of the matter, which is that maybe the managers were doing this because they were being squeezed by the higher ups who were putting pressure on them to farm the work out to India or something. I guess time will tell.

Salaried employees don't get overtime.

[the_skywise]

I worked at a pizza place while going to college. The managers there regularly worked 60 hour weeks for their salary. 9 hours to manage the business plus about 2-3 hours afterwards to handle closing and settling up the paperwork and bills for the night then dropping the cash off at the bank.

Salaried employees aren't paid x dollars for y time of work. They're paid x dollars to do a JOB.

I worked in the game industry too. Yeah, it was a sweatshop at times. It was also a LOT of fun. The sweatshop attitude wasn't entirely management's fault. They wanted a game in 12 months. We wanted a GREAT game and would regularly spend the extra time coding and experimenting to get the best result. Then, of course, we'd slip and management would hold us to our time. Then we'd get pissed at management and management would get pissed at us and the death march would begin.

The point is that it's not all "evil" management's fault. (Sometimes it is, but not always). But ultimately, the choice to work 80 hour work weeks lies with the individual, not the company.

Re:What is wrong with these people?

[gl4ss]

**
Salaried, nonexempt employees are not paid for their hours, they're paid to get a job done, regardless of the time it takes. That can mean working extra hours in the crunch time, or taking off a couple hours early on Friday to play golf.
**

That's all nice and good. IF the job is even possible to do in the timeframe, which means that you'd be doing extra hours for the crunch time that would last all year long from year to year.

of course, this might shed some light into some issues why some games are done so stupidly(a multi million game that's just bad because some few little things are done so badly).

Re:What is wrong with these people?

[GoofyBoy]

>That can mean working extra hours in the crunch time, or taking off a couple hours early on Friday to play golf.

If you are doing the later, I'm sure that someone higher up would love to know about this. Either they would like to give you more work or they don't need you at all.

>Do these people really WANT to be hourly employees?

Because it enforces equal work for equal pay.

As a european to the americans, O_O

[SmallFurryCreature]

I can't believe some of the posts. You are not paid to work 40 hours you are paid to get a job done? What the fuck?

Imagine this attitude in a factory. You are charged with screwing X into Y and half way down your shift something somewhere breaks and the entire line grinds to a hault. Well obviously lost production, what happens then in america or according to these posters? You don't get paid? You have to work unpaid overtime to make up for the lost time?

All I can say is thank god for unions in europe then, real unions.

There are basically 3 kinds of jobs

• Pure per hour work, think plumbers and such. No such thing as overtime. Imagine if that was true, your plumber could just charge you 100% extra saying he was on overtime :)
• basic worker, you get a X hour contract and are expected to do your job during those hours minus breaks. Extra hours get paid extra.
• Fixed pay, higher positions can have this. Anyone from movie stars to directors get a fixed amount but are supposed to do the job that needs to be done regardless of hours.

It is up to the boss to ensure in all cases that the person they employ actually performs as desired during the working hours but if there is simply to much work for the number of hours then this is not the problem of the employee in the first two salary situations.

Of course now the questions is where these programmers belong. Are they no different from a person working the assembly line or are they a director level employee.

Funny thing is that despite huge differences in working attitude around the world it seems impossible to say wich way is the right way. Japan was at one time a leader and look at them now. America had the assembly line and the highly paid worker with a car and freestanding house but recent news stories suggest america is no longer able to keep that up either.

Europe is to fragmented to make any real conslusions. My own country holland is amazingly well balanced with work in every field from farming to high tech stuff so we tend to feel fluctuations less then say detroit in the US when the car market shifted (we lost daf cars and it was news but it means a few thousand job losses not an entire city going down the shitter).

Yup I noticed this as well

[SmallFurryCreature]

They call it being flexible, you being able to start early, leave late, work weekends and be on call. Of course when you need a morning off to visit the dentist all hell breaks loose.

It sounds nice but in reality there are very few workplaces where the flexibilty goes both ways.

You should try suggesting that if you stayed late that the next day you will be in late. Most bosses don't even seem to get the concept. I did work at one place that was fun and had amazingly long hours (so long I even just stayed overnight rather then spend more time travelling home then sleeping) but after a while I realized that while I had more money coming in I had far far more going out (pizza, late night shopping, etc) then doing regular 40hr work.

Re:What is wrong with these people?

[Detritus]

At my last job, I was a salaried exempt employee. That's what they told me. I didn't get paid for overtime. Fair enough, I'm on a salary. What pissed me off was that if I worked less than 8 hours, my pay was reduced accordingly, as if I was paid an hourly wage. They wanted it both ways.

Just wanted to throw this out...

[DaveJay]

I've read forums about things like this before, where companies pressure employees to falsify timesheets.

Often, the response from many is "so what, most if not all companies do that" or something similar.

I just wanted to say that the company I currently work for as a programmer started using timesheets, and from day one to now, at all levels, with no exceptions (and I work over 50 hours a week on a regular basis, sometimes over 60) it has always been clearly stated:

"Do NOT falsify your timesheets. If you worked 80 hours last week, write it down. If we don't track time accurately, we don't know if you're all being overworked, and we won't realize we need to hire more people. So BE ACCURATE and don't hide the fact that you're working longer hours."

It should be no surprise, then, to learn that we not only survived the dot-bomb years, but we're growing so fast worldwide we can't find enough qualified people to fill the openings we're creating every day, even though we're hiring a LOT of people.

There's a lesson in there somewhere. ;)

Glad Someone Has Finally Done This

[Anonymous Coward]

I've worked for a bunch of game companies including Origin, Ion Storm, and elsewhere. And I'm here to tell you, they are _not_ fun: they are the equivalent of 19th century sweatshops. Most places I worked, myself and other programmers routinely turned in 80-100 work weeks -- not because we were excited or invested in our job, but because we were told point blank that we would be fired otherwise. There is practically _no_ compensation. Most managers sneer at the idea of comp days, and the number of folks who've received bonuses or royalties that equalled the amount of time they put into a project is pretty minimal.

Managers, of course, come and go as they please and don't seem to understand why everyone is so unhappy with the situation. Because, well, isn't this a fun place to work? Don't they buy you dinner when you stay late and take you to see that "Star Wars" film? And hey, you get to have action figures on your desk! The fact that your hourly pay works out to be less than the guys in QA is never mentioned.

And to that guy who thinks that this is just the price you pay in order to take off on Friday and "play golf," you're obviously misinformed. No one gets to say "Hey, I'm done for the day, how about a round of frisbee?"; if you don't have work to do, you're instructed to find work to do.

If the joy of making computer games allows you to overlook these issues, then honestly, more power to you. But to act like this guy is somehow biting the hand that feeds him is simply uninformed and ludicrous. I have no idea how the legal rulings will play out, but I wish him all the best. Maybe if one of these companies gets scared, then the rest will preemptively adapt normal business practices (like just about everywhere else), act like grown-ups, and then they really might be fun places to work.
--
Lewis

Saskatcewan Laws

[Nos.]

I went through something similar with an employer not that long ago. I was a salaried employee, supposedly meaning no overtime. However, if I had to miss an hour of work for a doctor's appointment or something, I was docked an hours worth of pay.

After a month or so of this, we started talking to the labour board, and guess what, doesn't matter if we're salaried, we are eligible for overtime for every hour past 40 in a week that we work. Considering that last month I had been averaging about 70 hours a week (not at my own choice), I ended up taking home a lot more than I usually did, and suddenly, they weren't pushing us to work overtime so much. Might have had something to do with the fact that they probably blew their salary budget for the next few months. Also interesting is the fact that in our labour code, you cannot force and employee to work more than 4 hours per week unless it is an unforseen emergency. I don't think an approaching, or past deadline would qualify.

In case your wondering, they did try and designate us as professional employees, and thus get away from paying overtime. However, there are precious few positions/professions that qualify. Programmer, Network/Systems Analsyt, etc. do not qualify.

Re:As a european to the americans, O_O

[servognome]

In the US there are strict rules about who gets salary and who doesn't.
People like you described who screw X into Y are non-exempt hourly workers. They are more like extensions of the machines on the assembly line, they are not allowed to use their own judgement, they are just performing a specific task, usually exactly according to a written specification (if the company follows ISO rules). If the assembly line breaks down, they still just sit idle but get their hourly wage. Companies get into alot of trouble [tristatenews.com] for unpaid overtime
Salaried employees are those whose job functions are more intellectual and difficult to quantify. How many hours does it take to design a new widget? You get your salary no matter how many hours you work, the only exceptions are personal absences, or medical absence where the company has an alternate compensation plan (ie short term disability plan). So if I go to work one hour a day each week, I still get my full salary.
In my work at least, if you are scheduled for more than 12 hours (ie supervising 12-hour shift workers) then you are given overtime for the extra scheduled hours because your job expectation exceeds the 40 hour work week.
Programmers, should be salaried employees, but they also should have insight and input into resourcing expectations. I'm an R&D engineer, and part of my job is to estimate how many hours it will take to complete a project I am given. Of course I have a knowledgable manager, so I can't go way over on my estimate. Programmers if they are exempt should have the same input. In the end it works out best, since management has a good grasp on resourcing, and the employee works a good amount of hours. I usually work between 45-50 hours because I set an aggressive schedule. Of course there are those 80-85 hour weeks because of the unexpected, but I am never in one of those constant 70-80 week grinds.

Re:Glad Someone Has Finally Done This

[DeepHurtn!]

The fact that your hourly pay works out to be less than the guys in QA is never mentioned.

I did a stint in QA once, and I saw that happening. I became buddies with one of the audio designers, and for large chunks of the project he would sleep in his soundroom instead of going home and generally work crazy hours. Before long us peons in QA were working crazy hours too -- but we were getting paid doubletime! I felt bad hanging out with the guy when I knew I was getting paid more per hour than he was, even though I was essentially providing unskilled labour compared to him...

Devs got to order from nicer restaurants, though. I'm sure that went a long way towards making up for it. /sarc

Re:Glad Someone Has Finally Done This

[Psychochild]

I worked at 3DO while it was still in business, and I have similar stories to tell.

I think the trick is that game developers originally wanted to stay long hours because they legitimately enjoyed their jobs and wanted to make the best creative efforts they could. While working on Meridian 59 at 3DO, I came in on holidays to put in extra hours to improve it as much as possible. (I loved the game so much that I now own Meridian 59 [meridian59.com].)

However, I think it evolved into something that was just assumed by managers and worked into the schedule. On the last project I worked on at 3DO (before quitting, mind you) we were told to put in long hours by our managers. The word "fired" wasn't necessarily used, but there was a strong element of peer pressure at work. We were given 6 months to finish a game that realistically should have taken about three times that. Of course, we slipped a few weeks and were blamed for that. We were supposed to ship one day before my birthday, but since we slipped my request for time off on my birthday was denied, even though all my assigned work was done and there wasn't enough time on schedule for me to pick up a new task. (It shouldn't come as a surprise that I was never able to use any vacation time while I was working at 3DO, and when I quit I was maxxed out on accumulated time.)

As a footnote: I got the last laugh, though, because even though that game was universally panned by critics, the obligatory "good things" that every game review has to include focused on the sound and the map, things I did the programming for!

Anyway, this issue is one of the reasons why I own my own company now. I still have to work long hours, but at least I'm doing it for my own benefit instead of for the benefit of someone else that profits off of my long hours.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with this lawsuit. Given the number of companies that do require people to put in the long, hard hours to complete projects, this could have far-reaching effects if it goes against Vivendi.

Have fun,

Re:Last time I checked

[th3space]

Your comparison between the movie industry and the video game industry was a valid one, just not in the way you were going with it.

Movies have several levels of people involved with getting one made and distributed...and so do video games, now that it's a multi-billion dollar a year industry. Games, like movies, have actors, directors, producers, sound engineers, etc...but instead of the programmers being the stars, they're actually more akin to the lighting department, the set designers, the wardrobe consultants, grips and cameramen. They are just as important in the making of the game, but ultimately will have their work overlooked by the majority of the viewing public. John Q. Gamer probably won't care one way or another if Steven H. Programmer worked on this title or that title...only the fan-boys and hardcore gamers care about things like that.

The stars of the games are no longer even the games themselves, or the characters...more and more the stars are people whose agents advised them that they ought to capitalize on the resounding success of the game industry...Vin Diesel, Jet Li, entire casts from movies providing the voice work and mo-cap for their digitized counterpart.

Is this fair to the programmers? Should they be relegated to a supporting role? Well, movie studios and media conglomerates are snatching up publishing studios like they're friggin' Pokemon...gotta catch 'em all...so this is just the way things are working out in the industry, fair or not. It doesn't surprise me in the least that this happened at VU...they're making games the way they make movies. The only hope for programmers to continue to be able to get the respect and compensation that they deserve is by unionizing...and that may be around the corner if things keep moving in the direction they've been headed in for the past couple of years.

For good or for ill, video games grew up...and while we may not have any more Sierras or iDs or Origins...we're getting slick, stylized, polished games the likes of which we could've only dreamed of back in the day.

Back to the topic...getting jerked around on your pay is pretty crap...but this Pandora's Box could have all kinds of consequences that the plaintiff(s) hadn't anticipated...like not having to worry about finding programming work anymore, since it will have all been shipped out in the name of financial stability.