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Doom 3 Gets Reviews, Piracy Questions, Exultation 1319

Posted by simoniker
from the all-of-the-above dept.
Yeti Von Baseball writes "Now that Doom 3 has officially shipped to stores, Computer Gaming World just posted its Doom 3 review - they also posted about 100 or so new screens." Elsewhere, GameSpy has an in-progress weblog and first-look impressions on the "claustrophobic corridors" of the game, Telefragged posted one of the first reviews, praising "a grand slam of action, story, atmosphere, and pure terror", the BBC reports on how "potential sales could be hit by the extent of online piracy of the game", and Time Magazine has a feature on Doom 3 and id.
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Doom 3 Gets Reviews, Piracy Questions, Exultation

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  • by MooseByte (751829) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:03PM (#9873900)

    I'm going to buy Doom3 from id directly at the id Store [idsoftware.com]. When there's a game I really get a lot out of (or plan to in this case), I try to buy directly from the developer to give them as big a cut of the pie as I can. They get full SRP instead of what's left from the middle man.

    My way of thanking companies that still create good titles.

  • Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by craenor (623901) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:04PM (#9873905) Homepage
    Perhaps I am being naive, but I really don't see the multiplayer support as being that big of an issue.

    Unreal Tournament and others have filled the niche of playing head to head rather well. No one cares as much about the graphics quality, the omg lighting effects, the dark horror of the story...they care about fragging that bastard who just got the rocket pack you were headed for.

    Doom 3 seems much more a single player game and well appreciated for it. I expect that in time, multiplayer will be beefed up some and become more viable. But for the time being, this is a single player game that seems to be kicking ass at showcasing great effects, great design and a good story-line.
  • by Alban (86010) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:04PM (#9873910)
    I've always been curious as to how you can rate the technology down to a single percent. Same goes for all the other parts of the game (interface 92%, Grpahics 95%).

    Most sites have (wisely) abandonned such an approach and rather go with a 1-5 scale or A,B,C,D,E ratings (with +/-).

    I mean come on...
  • piracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by chachob (746500) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:04PM (#9873917)
    The large amount of piracy of this game (30000 people on one torrent the other day) can be largely attributed to the amount of hype surrounding this game. it could be said that id did this to itself by hyping this game up a bit too much. im sure, however, that Doom3's sales will provide quite a hefty amount of profit for id and its employees, as there is quite a large amount of the population that still believes in supporting the developers.
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by phrasebook (740834) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:07PM (#9873940)
    Thanks for sharing the good news. There aren't enough high quality games focused on the single player as it is. You want multiplayer, go play all the rest.
  • by thinkninja (606538) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:09PM (#9873953) Homepage Journal
    Heh

    That was my first thought when I saw the story :)

    The second was "how long until Linux binaries are available?"
  • Re:piracy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by miike (770833) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:09PM (#9873956)
    You can't name a game Doom without causing hype. Hell, even the fact that it is created by id causes hype. Everyone want's to see what they have come up with this time.
  • Re:piracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Grrr (16449) * <cgrrr @ g r r r . n et> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:12PM (#9873989) Homepage Journal
    it could be said that id did this to itself

    Maybe in Bizarro World. But in this universe, thieves are responsible for the thefts.

    <grrr>
  • Re:Release dates (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Makarakalax (658810) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:12PM (#9873996) Homepage
    That sums me up exactly. I'm at 55% right now and have the game pre-ordered and paid for at the shop already.

    I joined the torrent when I found out this morning that the 13th August release date was true and not just a terrible rumour.
  • Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eliza_effect (715148) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:17PM (#9874040)
    What FPS have you played that didn't involve primarily going from room to room and shooting things? Half-Life, the previous holder of the "best single player FPS" crown was exactly the same. Walk, shoot, repeat. It's all about presentation, which both games have done very well at.
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Swifti (801896) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:26PM (#9874130)
    With the amount of people salivating at the enormous potential of modding with Doom 3, why should id put their efforts into multiplayer when there are thousands upon thousands of people waiting to build it for them?
  • Re:piracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sqrt(2) (786011) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:27PM (#9874144) Journal
    Tell me the name of the crime someone would be charged with if they were caught downloading/spreading illegal copies of Doom3.

    I'll give you a hint, it's not "theft" and starts with a "C".
  • by 00Monkey (264977) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:30PM (#9874176) Homepage
    I was psyched when I heard they were making this game until they announced they weren't going to put Cooperative play in it. Even the original had Cooperative play and that's part of what made it fun. There's at least 15-20 people I know who won't be buying the game because of that specific reason.

    Horrible Multiplayer, no Cooperative play... that's essentially a one shot single player adventure for $54.99. If it was $29.99-$39.99 I would purchase it but now, I refuse to spend money on it. If I hear alot of good stuff about it, I'll ask for it for my birthday or Christmas or something.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:33PM (#9874201)
    Why? I can remotely understand if your a broke teenager

    Dude, you've just described 90% of the Slashdot population. Yes, we really are broke teenagers and/or university students. I'll start buying games when I have the money. For now, $55 can be better spent than on a few hours of entertainment. I can buy a lot of cheap vodka with $55. ;-)

  • Re:piracy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Erwos (553607) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:34PM (#9874205)
    "it could be said that id did this to itself by hyping this game up a bit too much"

    In other news, the girl who got raped when walking in the dark alley brought it upon herself.

    -Erwos
  • So, (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MoOsEb0y (2177) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:38PM (#9874242)
    How long till a Linux binary appears?

    I tried running it under WineX (Cedega) and it just went into an infinite loop loading. I tried installing win2k on a partition to run it, and the installer BSoD'ed. Too afraid to try it on my laptop.
  • by neurojab (15737) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:40PM (#9874257)
    >Coding is as much a gift as auto repair or plumbing. There is a reason you don't see "Teach yourself physics in 24 hours" books.

    You can't tell the difference between good and bad code? That's too bad. Good code is what you get when you take someone genuinely skilled in the art of Software Engineering and a depth of knowledge in the problem domain and the language to be used.

    Bad code, on the other had, is what you get when you give "teach yourself Java in 21 days" to a physicist. The result may "work" for certian values of work, but the code will ultimately be unmaintainable, unreadable, non-scalable, and generally very crappy.

    It's similar to if I have a degree in Software Engineering, and I go out and design a building. It may function (and even remain upright for a few years), but the design will ultimately fail, because I lack the deep skills necessary to do a good job.
  • by veritron (637136) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:46PM (#9874295)
    The amount of Doom III piracy going on is absolutely sickening.

    A DAY BEFORE THE OFFICIAL LAUNCH, between the three torrents on suprnova there were 60,000 people downloading Doom III. This is ignoring the people who will dupe CDs and sell them on the streets of Hong Kong, the people who copy them off friends, and the people who get Doom III off of IRC/Kazaa/Hotline/Gnutella.

    If you search Doom III in google, Suprnova comes up on the right side as an affiliate link "download Doom III from this link." If nothing else, if suprnova were an open secret in the g**k community before, it's about to go fucking mainstream.

    This is fucking disgusting. More people will have pirated Doom III by Friday than many PC games even ever SELL in total.

    I will admit that part of the problem is that ID hasn't released a demo, so no one has any way of knowing whether the game will run on their systems or not. And all the news coverage going "Sure, this game runs just fine on an Alienware 3.0 ghz P4 with a Radeon 9800 pro, although it does make my machine feel a little mediocre" (gamespy) really honestly is scaring the fuck out of me.

    I'm buying this game though. I'll be fucked if the sales of this game make the beancounters realize that the only games that sell are the ones with secure multiplayer-only play. If piracy continues at the current rate, companies will start neglecting single player play and concentrating entirely on multiplayer play, simply because single player games are a million times easier to steal.

    Piracy could easily kill entire genres. We might not get another Max Payne 2 or a Painkiller if the rate of piracy keeps increasing.

    Don't pull that "I always buy games after I download them, so piracy doesn't really matter" bullshit. I've never done it before, I don't know anyone who does it, and it makes no rational sense to do so anyway. Pirates usually only actually purchase MMORPGS or games with secure online play - that's why you see City of Heroes and Final Fantasy XI and Evercrack and Counterstrike and such at the top of the sales charts, since everyone who would ordinarily "download and try the game first" simply is forced to buy the damn game if they want to play it.

    Go ahead, keep on bittorrenting Doom III, you wankers. You're killing gaming as we know it. A few more years and there will BE no more Splinter Cells or Painkillers or Max Paynes or Far Crys any other games with godly single player modes but no online play.

    I'm buying Doom III tomorrow when it finally comes out in my area. Good riddence to those whom this is addressed.
  • Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Izago909 (637084) <tauisgod@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:50PM (#9874328)
    Maybe in Bizarro World. But in this universe, thieves are responsible for the thefts.
    And in my world pirates are responsible for copyright infringment... and increased sales of eye patches... and parrots. Now, if the article were talking about people walking into stores and pocketing the whole box, that would be thievery.
  • Look again (Score:5, Insightful)

    by adiposity (684943) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:58PM (#9874388)
    "Brand new console" is something of a misnomer here. Do you mean the 4-year-old console that was $300 when it came out (PS2) or the 3-year-old console that was also $300 (Xbox)?

    Let's not forget that these consoles were sold *below* cost with the intention of making money on the games.

    I'm not saying $55 isn't a lot for a video game, but comparing it to the price of 4-year-old consoles that were sold at a loss doesn't prove anything. What you should compare it to is console titles, because console titles are supposed to make up the loss on the consoles. OTOH, PC titles have no need to make up said loss, so why are they getting just as high as the console titles?

    UT2004 was a nice exception, costing me only $25.

    -Dan
  • by whysanity (231556) * on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:58PM (#9874392) Homepage Journal
    has anyone pointed out that id traditionally has made the real bucks when they license the engine? if doom 3 was really a game to make money, it would have full multiplayer support - not this whimpy 4 player thing. as they did with quake 3, they will license the rendering engine for large chunks of cash. to me, doom 3 is just a showcase for thier real jewel - and a way to break even on the past few years of development
  • by hadesan (664029) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @08:58PM (#9874393)
    Bought the game this morning. Installed without a hitch... Played for a while...

    The game gets stale rather quickly. The monsters appearing out of nowhere are annoying. Poof! There's a monster. BANG! Poof! Another monster. BANG BANG! BTW, how many dead zombies can fit in a maintenance closet anyways... Although, the chubby bastards with the rocket launchers for arms were pretty cool.

    Outside of the lackluster gameplay, the graphics are F***ing awesome. The detail and lighting effects on everything are incredible (P4 2.4Ghz, 1GB RAM, ATI 9800 XT at 1280x1024 with AA). Everything looked on par with the Final Fantasy film graphics. Heat sources ripple the air and explosions ripple the air with concussions. The light from your plasma gun turns objects in front of it blue, etc... Interactivity with the environment is okay as well (objects can be shoved and positioned)

    The AI is fairly decent with the gun toting SOBs using cover and ducking when you fire at them (at least on the VETERAN setting)

    The $50+ I paid for it - not worth it - $30 maybe... I feel sorry for all those teens who plunk down their hard earned funds and realize the mistake too late...

    Far Cry was much more interesting and better in game play value. Hopefully, the modders will make up some excellent improvements to the game and everyone can enjoy it even more. Hopefully, multiplayer will be better...

    Where's my Beavertooth Chainsaw?

    http://www.martianbuddy.com (Wonder how many hits this site got before the official release)

  • by bedouin (248624) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:05PM (#9874444)
    Doom 3 looks cool, but I probably won't play it for a couple years.

    Not just because the Mac version hasn't been released, but because my system works fine for 99% of the tasks I need it to, and probably will continue to for some time. I've upgraded the graphics card already (when UT2003 was released), and I'll probably add dual 1.3ghz G4s at some point. Even then, Doom will probably still perform poorly.

    And it's really not a Mac thing. If I were a PC user I'd be responding the same way. It seems to me there has to be a market out there for games that perform well on mid-range computers. There is probably a market for computer gamers who aren't interested in shelling out hundreds of dollars every year -- for one game. Technical limitations shouldn't, and really don't stop one from producing a fun game. This is one of the reasons I enjoy playing emus far more than the latest releases; all the 3D crap gets out of hand sometimes.

    A company needs to emerge, or a company like ID should seriously think of creating one kick-ass game targeted at low/mid-range systems; something people with 3 year old systems want just as bad as those with the latest and greatest. I think it's possible.

    Older hardware still has a lot of life in it. I remember Sierra games released in the early 90s could still run on PCJrs released in the early 80s. A good game doesn't mean forcing people to splurge on expensive hardware. What I'm talking about here is a game just as well-developed and thought out as Doom 3, but targeted to run on older and newer hardware.

    I don't think it's crazy. If anything it would generate more customers, especially if marketed correctly. There's people who enjoy the FPS genre, but aren't interested in the teenage upgrade cycle. Consoles are an answer to a certain extent, but FPS have rarely been executed correctly on them.
  • Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Izago909 (637084) <tauisgod@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:08PM (#9874468)
    It makes it that much easier to look yourself in the mirror.

    I bought my copy today. I don't know why you assumed I downloaded it. If theft and copyright infringement are the same thing then why did people make a second word to describe the same thing? Answer: Because they are not the same thing. You can only steal a noun. Since information is neither person nor place nor thing it cannot be stealing or thievery. You can steal a painting, you can steal a CD, and you can steal a book. You cannot steal an authors inspiration. Calling someone who downloads coprighted material a thief is incorrect. It's like calling someone who hates rich people a racist. While both are a form of hate they are distinctly different. It doesn't speak highly of a persons intelligence if they consistently use the wrong vocabulary just to stir an emotional response. You should leave that to lawyers and politicians. Find me a case where someone bootlegging CDs was charged with burglary and I'll retract my statement.
  • Re:piracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by isorox (205688) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:09PM (#9874473) Homepage Journal
    But in this universe, thieves are responsible for the thefts.

    This is a universe where the pub owner gets sued if a patron drinks too much and falls over and where McDonalds is responsible for making people fat.
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by phrasebook (740834) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:10PM (#9874478)
    It's Doom 1 with better graphics.

    I wish. It's gonna be slower and probably more boring with less replay value. But yes, a high quality single player experience all the same.
  • Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Yobgod Ababua (68687) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:11PM (#9874489)
    In the US legal system, copying a copyrighted work without proper permission is a particular crime known as "copyright infringement".

    It is legally distinct from theft... "the felonious
    taking and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same".

    In a case of illegal copying, no property is actually removed from the rightful owner.

    I'm not saying that makes it any less illegal, or makes it morally justified, but the earlier poster was at least correct in that it is -not- theft.
  • Re:piracy (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jrockway (229604) * <jon-nospam@jrock.us> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:13PM (#9874498) Homepage Journal
    Is that you Senator Hatch?? Getting raped is surely different from downloading a video game. I'm sure that if you met someone who was raped they would not appreciate your disrespect. Glad you proved your point, though.

    Piracy is fine. If you're a developer and you don't like piracy, make it authenticate to a central server. Works for UT2004, and forced me to buy a copy.

    Oh, but this is single player, and you can forge the response on the connection or hack the client. Yes. So maybe single player games aren't the way to get profit. Just because your business model sucks doesn't mean that you need to call us all rapists.
  • by eddy (18759) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:14PM (#9874505) Homepage Journal

    I'd mod you up if I hadn't wanted to post.

    The ID crew should load up Thief 3 and play "The Cradle". "The Cradle" is scary but interesting. Instead of a never ending stream of monsters, you have a limited amount, and they're not actually all out to get you per default. You can engage, or you can sneak past. One option more than in Doom 3 (as far as I can tell)

    "The Cradle" is scary because you'll imagine the worst possible thing happening all the time, and even though the worst possible thing that you imagine doesn't happen, the game use sound, visual and story-telling to keep you on your toes throughout.

    In Doom 3, the worst possible thing pretty much happens every turn. If there's a ledge with an item on it, the ledge will fall as you walk on it. If you're backing into a dark corner, there will be a zombie waiting for you This is a much less rewarding experience overall.

    Take the place where you find the first shotgun. ID's design: Put a piece of ammo/armor on the floor off the given path. Player jumps over rail the grab item, floor falls out, player ends up in dark room with three/four zombies attacking.

    I would probably have designed it thus for a first try: .. player jumps over rail to grab item, floor falls out revealing dark room, player+floor ends up falling on zombie, killing it (can use humor here). Lessons learned: 1) Be careful where you walk. 2) Dangerous creatures are lurking for you in the darkness. 3) They can be killed by dropping heavy things in their heads.

    Both approaches would teach the player that exploration is rewarded and that it can be dangerous, one just isn't so obvious about it.

    Doom 3 just made me realize how good a game Thief really is. Way underrated.

    At least in Thief the lighting made sense most of the time.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:24PM (#9874576)
    Uh, I have "tried" and then bought many games, SP ones inclusive...

    My general litmus test is that if it entertains me for about two weeks, then it's worth buying.

    Examples:
    Red Alert 2/Expansion
    EV Nova
    Star Trek: Bridge Commander
    Tiberian Sun (that was a mistake)
    Neverwinter Nights (I now own Gold+Hordes expansion)
  • Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by SyniK (11922) <{tom} {at} {gamerzday.com}> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:29PM (#9874620) Homepage Journal
    System Shock 2

    (Well, it could be played other ways than just run and gun -- almost adventure game style instead of FPS.)
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by plover (150551) * on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:30PM (#9874629) Homepage Journal
    Make sure your monitor brightness is set to a decent level -- at first I had mine way too dark, and the game wasn't nearly as enjoyable. You should be able to see your environment without a flashlight.

    I have to disagree with you; I've been playing with the gamma set to "normal" levels, so I can't see the baddies in the shadows unless I use the flashlight. In a darkened room, with the headphones up fairly loud, the game is overwhelmingly intense. The time it takes to switch the flashlight back to your weapon, shooting at vague shadows in the dark, realizing you've just run from a pack of imps into a pitch-black corridor, the whole lighting scheme (and/orlack thereof) is a huge part of the game.

    I know some of my feelings for this game come from the excitement of playing the original, and seeing how well they've improved on it, but I think this game still calls for setting your own environment to "ultra-creepy" and immersing yourself.

  • by huchida (764848) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:52PM (#9874791)
    You're a guy in a top secret scientific reasearch facility that's been doing transportation experiments and due to a horrible accident, the facility is being invaded by big, bad, ugly monsters... As the game progresses, you end up being sent to an unhuman world... Clearly this was copied directly from HL2... Oh wait! That is the story line from the origional DOOM! Who would have thought! Id said they were going to make a game based on the origional storyline and they did just that! HL2's story was just like DOOM, only you were a scientist instead of a marine.... and instead of Demons from Hell, it was aliens.

    I don't see how either of those razor-thin "plots" could be called either an original idea, or a rip-off of the other.

    Not that it matters. Playing games for the plot is like reading Hustler for the articles.
  • Re:Odd Ratings (Score:5, Insightful)

    by yem (170316) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:53PM (#9874808) Homepage
    Perhaps those that purchase the game will invest the time to get the most out of the it, whereas the thousands of warez kiddies will leech it before its in stores, give it a quick spin and get their ratings in. First day reviews really aren't worth much IMHO.

  • Re:Low Price? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Saville (734690) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:58PM (#9874851)
    You're stingy. Or a student.

    Many interesting board games such as Carcassonneor Cranium cost almost that much. You generally only play those for a few hours. Taking your GF to the movies can easily be $30 ($50AUS?) for two tickets, parking, and a popcorn combo and that only lasts two hours. A night at the bar can quickly run in the hundreds. A table top game like Warhammer 40,000 will cost $50 for the rule book and single models can cost $10 a pop (people often have over $1k of miniatures!). How much does a tank of gas cost in your vehicle if you want to go on a road trip? $30? What about a hotel room? $80?

    Life is expensive. If you like games then set aside enough cash to buy one a month. I wish games were cheaper so kids could give them as gifts at birthday parties or more relatives could give them at Christmas, but I don't set the pricing. If you can afford modern hardware then you can probably afford the software. If you don't think Doom3 is worth your money then contribute to a Free/Open Source game.

    If I get four hours of enjoyment out of Doom3 I'll be happy. In fact I'd rather have it last 4 hours and be totally fun than have it drawn out over 40 where I'm bored of the game for the last 30 hours.
  • by alexandre (53) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @09:58PM (#9874853) Homepage Journal
    Looking at online torrent sites you can easily estimates that doom3 has way over 100000 concurrent downloads going on...
    that's 0.1 to 0.2% of the net d/ling doom3 !!!
  • by Cryptnotic (154382) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:04PM (#9874886) Homepage
    Until game manufacturers make buying the game a higher quality experience than pirating it, piracy is going to continue to be a "problem". To illustrate my point, let's compare my experience buying the game with that of my friend who downloaded it.

    Here's my experience: I bought the game just after midnight last night. I waited in line for about 25 minutes to pay $54.99 for the game. I missed getting the free T-shirt because too many other people showed up before me and they ran out. I go home and start to install the game from the CD's. Disc 1 has a serious problem and keeps failing reading at about 98% of the way through. Eventually after trying 2 different CD-ROM drives and cleaning the brand-new disc several times, I am able to get it to read and continue the install. Now, after the game is installed, I try to run it. It won't let me start without disc 1 in the drive. Okay, I get out disc 1 again and put it in the drive. Now it tells me it won't run because I have CD emulation software running. Okay, I disable daemon tools. Still, Doom 3 refuses to load. At this point, I give up and download the NoCD patch. After that, everything works fine.

    Compare this experience to that of my friend. My friend just clicked the download link on a Bittorrent site and waited a few hours. After that, he loads each .iso image in sequence using Daemon Tools to install each disc (at much faster speeds than loading from a CD). He has no problems reading some cheaply produced CD. He just installs the no CD patch from the beginning, rather than trying to work around iD's ineffective copy protection. He's up and running with the game before I've had a chance to buy it.

    Obviously, I'm being the good moral person by purchasing the game. However, the fact remains that my experience is notably worse than that of my friend who just pirated it. I guess the game developers don't care.

  • Re:piracy (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheHonestTruth (759975) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:11PM (#9874928) Journal
    *yawn*

    Because they are not the same thing. You can only steal a noun. Since information is neither person nor place nor thing it cannot be stealing or thievery.

    Oi ve. First you describe Doom 3 as an "it," then go on to say you can only steal a noun. Well if "it" isn't a pronoun used for nouns, I don't know what is.

    Look, yes, if someone was caught downloading it, they would be charged with copyright infringement. But on the flip side, no one is charged with "theft." They are charged with larceny or embezzelment or one of the various other versions of "theft." It's like homicide and murder. Just because no one is charged with "homicide" when they commit a murder does not mean they did not commit a homicide.

    I honestly don't understand why people like you get bent out of shape when people call infringers thieves. I mean really, what do you gain out of correcting them?

    I mean would it make you really happier if they used "copyright infringer" to describe people that download games/music? Would you appreciate the moniker "tortfeasor" since that's what they are? Does it make what they do any more acceptable?

    It doesn't speak highly of a persons intelligence if...

    ...they argue anything on slashdot because half the people here don't know what they are talking about. At all. Including me.

    -truth

  • Re:freakin great (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Stevyn (691306) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:17PM (#9874961)
    You could say the same thing about Need for Speed.

    "Accelerate, slow down, make the turn, repeat"

    It doesn't mean the game is bad, it just means it fits the genre. Not everyone likes RPGs or MPORGs of whatever you call them.

    In fact, I like most people, was not expecting any thing more from Doom 3 than what you described.
  • by chez69 (135760) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:28PM (#9875021) Homepage Journal
    save your money and buy it. the cheapness around here is unbelievable.

    why don't you steal yourself a new car that you can't afford too? $1000 would be a lot of cheap shit vodka too.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:37PM (#9875073)
    ID Software has been saying "we're going to do something new next!" since Doom 2. I believe Carmack's approximate quote was "Why? Because we don't want to do Doom 3".

    So what's in the pipeline? Doom 3 (out), another Wolfenstein, and Quake 4.

    ID has never delivered on their oft-delivered promise to "do something new". I love 'em, but damn it all they've done is rehash, rehash, rehash.
  • Re:freakin great (Score:5, Insightful)

    by cK-Gunslinger (443452) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:47PM (#9875128) Journal

    Most newer games at least attempt to do something different. Original HL has some nice scripted events and fancy "AI" enemy tactics. Plus it had an engaging story. Some games experiment with varying levels - huge outdoor levels mixed with cramped indoor ones. Some mix stealth tactics with pure run-n-gun. Jedi Knight II had cool transitions from FPS to 3rd-person saber battles. Call of Duty has you storming beaches, being a sniper, infiltrating buildings, driving a tank, etc.

    Doom III is a straight up "creep from one monotonous room to the next, while shooting the monsters that spawn behind you" game, with some snazzy new graphics. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it is non anything revolutionary. It is what it is. The enemy AI is nonexistent - they run right at you while you blast them. The weapons are typical and uninspired. The plot is old. The whole "use your PDA to read other people's email and notes to get clues" has been done.

    All in all, it's a very average game wrapped in a $20 million graphics engine. Nothing more.
  • by Glonoinha (587375) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @10:53PM (#9875150) Journal
    Funny thing though - all the guys that pirated Doom I and II are now 10 years further up the corporate ladder and $55 is, as you say, a speed bump. Little gamer punks are going to pirate it - more power to them, and more power to id in ten years when the gamer punk pirates of 2004 become the well paid consumers of 2014, buying up Doom V in droves because they got hooked on pirated warez (like we did a decade ago on Doom I).

    Something tells me that the MSRP is going to be 'street price' until all the crack junkie id fanboys (like me) buy our copy of and remember what it was like to be a 'day one warez d00d'.

    Doom I got a chance to revolutionize the gaming industry because they gave it away - so id worked. It is still going to work, even if the pirates need a fatter pipe this time around.
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:02PM (#9875212)
    And yet your not owning a copy, or even playing it at any length somehow gives you the authority to make a broad comment like that. Amazing.

    Do me a favor, can you just review all the games that are coming out this year for me now? I hate having to wait to know if the game is good and since you seem to be able to tell in advance your powers could say me a few clams. Please, refute this comment now by claiming you have played it.

    The AC is the only true non-Karma Whore
  • by Nataku564 (668188) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:16PM (#9875303)
    most gamer kids just don't have that

    Yet somehow these same gamer kids can afford the hardware needed to run Doom 3. There is a difference between not having the money, and simply not being willing to spend it.

    If Id and Activision would sell it for $29.95, their sales would probably increase 500 to 700 percent. Overpricing because of greed will be the kiss of death.

    And this gets modded up as insightful somehow ... please tell me where you get these numbers from. One of your own orifices will not suffice as a source, btw. The argument goes both ways as well ... if more people would buy the game then companies wouldn't have to hike the price up to maintain their profit margins. Additionally - assuming the price derives from greed is just that, an assumption. Have you considered the long development cycle, and that perhaps paying their programmers and support staff for the extra year or two ( in comparison to other games ) might be the reason for the increased price, in addition to the need to compensate for piracy?
  • Meanwhile (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ucblockhead (63650) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:26PM (#9875376) Homepage Journal
    I'm playing Max Payne. I got it for $9.99 from Target last week.

    In about four years, I figure I'll pick up Doom 3 for a similar price, assuming that it doesn't suck.

    Why on Earth people are in such a hurry I have no idea. The game isn't going to vanish if you don't buy it the first day, and it's not like it's the only good game in existence.

  • by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland @ y a hoo.com> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:28PM (#9875386) Homepage Journal
    In my experience, developers wopuld rather not have to deal with the damn 'protection'.
    Thay know it's useless, frustrating and hurts sales.

    Most of the time, the game has CD protection added by a 3rd party wrapper. DoomIII may be done differently, but it does't sound like it.

    Now, you could download, then just bguy the game the next day. No free shirt, but same diff in this case...

    I have heard... That there are people with a dozen or so games that they have purchased and played. The funny thing is, somehow they managed to install the game without breaking the shrinkwrap... Imagine that, eh?
  • Doom 3 bashing? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rDx666 (801783) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:53PM (#9875537)
    Give id credit for their work, guys. From every moment I'm in the game I see the considerable amount of work put into every square meter of the level. I got the game today, and I can say that this is the most complete, engrossing, and well-executed FPS I have ever played. Its lack of innovation, instead of making me dislike the game (new wheels don't have to be invented to make a great game!) makes me want to strangle all other FPSes to at least get them to the level of Doom 3. Judging from the more negative reviews of the game, the main cause of the feelings is more overly high expectations than anything else--did you really expect (Doom 3 > FPS > shooting at lots of AI bots) to return true? I didn't. But, in my opinion, iD has taken a very tired, though tried and true, formula and made it so the formula wasn't so easy to see. Repetitive play? When the individual elements that are being repetitive are greater than the sum of their parts, it gives you a high--a reason to go on to the next room, a reason to press the quick load key. It's like repeatedly doing very well in Counterstrike and proving time and time again to the rival clan memebr who thinks he owns you that he is t3h nub. Far Cry had a similar level of repetitiveness, but it didn't feel creative, it didn't give me the sense of chaos and unending mayhem that Doom 3 does. You scream repetition, but I gladly agree with you. Just not with "Doom 3 sucking."

    A game can be hugely innovative, executing the most ambitious of design docs--but all of this falls flat without sufficient Little Things That Add Up (TM). It makes me feel as if people are bashing Doom 3 because when they are playing, they aren't really "playing" it--they spend so much time looking for the big picture (Doom 3 is just another FPS) that they miss those little things.

  • by qopax (782239) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .namor.s.> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:55PM (#9875555) Homepage
    lol you actually think the "gamer kids" pay for their own hardware? you've gotta be kidding me
  • Re:Tweak Settings (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekoid (135745) <dadinportland @ y a hoo.com> on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:56PM (#9875559) Homepage Journal
    Now, why the hell isn't that an option?
    Having a little drop down, and some esoteric commands is good, for tweaks, and maybe a bonus. Needing to do it so you can see the game is bad design, and user hatefull.
  • by neurojab (15737) on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:57PM (#9875570)
    >By the time a single line of code has been written, 90% of the Software Engineering should already have happened.

    The previous poster made no distinction between a Software Engineer and a programmer. Most organizations don't. Usually the programmer and the Software Engineer are the same person.

    The idea that a program can be fully designed before a line of code has been written is called the "waterfall" methodology. Though this approach is commonly seen as ideal, it really doesn't work. In fact, it's usually cited as a major reason projects fail. During the implementation phase, serious design problems will emerge and need to be addressed. The iterative approach of the RUP, or the more organic designs of XP tend to work much better IMHO.

    I don't mean to scorn plumbers. That's a difficult job as well, and certainly requires expertise and ability. I think it takes more expertise to do my job, but that's just my opinion.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 03, 2004 @11:59PM (#9875580)
    Well, in most cases the copyright protection is put in place by the distributers (i.e. Activision). While id probably wishes they didn't have to worry about piracy, they are more concerned with making games. The distributor, on the other hand, is more concerned with selling as many units as possible. This means they don't want some guy to be able to rip the game and put it on every p2p network. Unfortunately, this copyright protection crap does more to annoy legitimate users than it does to curb piracy. I fucking hate having to play a game with the CD in, so I ALWAYS get a no-cd crack. This kind of stuff just never works. I mean shit, you have to have a killer system to play this game. The kind of people who have a system good enough aren't going to mind dropping an additional $50 to get the game. I'll just wait a couple of months till they've sold enough and the price goes down. It's funny how when it comes to music the RIAA is evil, yet many of the people who think that have already bought Doom 3.
  • by shplorb (24647) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:18AM (#9875716) Homepage Journal
    id really are damned if they do and damned if they don't with all the people who think they know what makes a good game.

    Everyone screams that id doesn't make games with good stories, conveniently forgetting that what they've traditionally made are arcade-action games. Now they finally turn around and make a deep and intense game with a decent story and everyone derides it as crap, boring, repetitive and nothing new.

    Hey, guess what - games are by their nature repetitive! You yourself even say that you don't like the sort of game that Doom is - so what the fuck are you complaining for? It's a remake of Doom, what else did you expect other than running around a base on Mars gunning down monsters? Do you think a base on Mars overrun by demons and shit would be anything other than dark corridors and rooms? FFS! The story seems like Half-Life because Half-Life seems like the original premise of Doom!

    I've only played an hour of the game so far because I'm too tied up at work (where I make games) this week, but from what I've seen so far it's an amazingly polished game. I'm hanging for the weekend when I'll have the time to setup my new surround sound system and be able to sit down in a dark room for a long time and immerse myself in the experience. I hope it continuously scares the shit out of me when I'm not oohing and aahing at the polished design.
  • by DrCash (800431) <`gro.38opa' `ta' `retsambew'> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:32AM (#9875786)
    Jon Carmack is contributing to society in the same way that other artists, playwrights, and musicians contribute to society. Ok, so maybe a bit more violent - you've apparently never been to a Shakespeare play before, either.

    Not everyone in the world is given the gift of contributing to society by making scientific or engineering accomplishments. Society needs art, and pleasure, and ways to relax. Or else we'd be a group of 6 billion super geeks with absolutely no life and solving relativistic and calculus equations instead of getting laid! Or, think of a world in which every single person on the planet was a /. user!! Ahh! :-)

    Sometimes, we just need to relax and chill for awhile. There's nothing wrong with that.

  • Re:piracy (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Izago909 (637084) <tauisgod@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:34AM (#9875799)
    Oi ve. First you describe Doom 3 as an "it," then go on to say you can only steal a noun. Well if "it" isn't a pronoun used for nouns, I don't know what is.

    A boxed CD is definately something physical. That's why downloading it is copyright infringment and removing a box from a store without paying is stealing.

    I correct people, not because it makes infringment more acceptable, but because I do what I can to counter all of the misinformation spewed by lawyers and special interest groups that would like the average person to be as completely ignorant as possible. We're living in an era where paid politicians are stripping personal rights to make the jobs of copyright enforcers easier. They aren't adding new laws or protections, copyright protection has always been there. They are just making enforcement and prevention easier at the expense of our rights.

    How many 'anti-theft' solutions are smart enought to know when I'm exercising fair-use to make a backup because I'm hard on my CDs and want to keep the originals stored in my CD rack? How many media groups will take a damaged CD and replace it for only the cost of the media and S&H? When you buy a CD you are buying a license to use it. You still have the license even if the medium is destroyed, yet most every time you break a CD you have to go back to the store and buy a new one for full price. Copyright is an important and complex issue and will become ever more complex as communication and technology advance and spread to new people. Yet most people don't even think or care about it and how it affects them. History dictates that most people don't really care about their rights or freedoms until they are gone. I do what I can to make sure that I and everyone around take them into full consideration before signing them over to some corporation. The myth that copyright infringemnt and stealing are the same thing is midlessly supporting the corporate line that wants to keep the average person oblivious to their rights.
  • by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:40AM (#9875827)
    A while back Epic patched UT2004 to stop checking the CD. Makes me happy since I HATE hunting down CDs. I am not good with CD care and oringals are likely to get destroyed if I keep them on my desk. I much prefer to install the game, pack it back in the box, and deposit that on my games shelf.

    The not working with CD-ROMs is getting to be a real problem too. I happen to have one that all the protections like so far, but I know plenty of people that don't. The new SecureROM is a particular whore about this. It is so damn agressive that it just won't work at all on a ton of CD drives out there. Talk about an unacceptable situation.

    The sad fact is that you CAN'T legally crack or download a game you bought. You'd think so, I mean you paid for it, who cares if you remove the CD protection? Well it didn't used to matter, but thanks to the DMCA, that's now illegal in the US (I assume we are speaking of the US here since that's the only country I know of that Doom 3 is out in). So you can buy a game, and literally have no legal way to play it other than to also buy a new CD-ROM. Ya, THAT'S fair.

    I wish developers would do a little more research. I have a feeling that copy protection makes about fuck-all difference in copying rates. Think: a professional group will get the game, and release a crack. That will get circulated online, so there will be an unprotected version available to those that would break the law. What does it really matter then if a normal person could just make a copy? I mean I am aware of no CD, dongle, key server, etc protection that doesn't get broken. Games with the latest whiz-bang SecureROM protection, apps that use FlexLM, all cracked and available online.

    I would be willing to bet that if they really got down to it, the amount it cost them to purchase the protection (the stuff isn't free and is generally a per copy sold cost) is greater than or equal to the amount it saves in copying. Those that want to copy it illegally can do so anyhow, thus I bet it serves no other purpose than to poss off legit consumers and to make the CEO types have a warm fuxxy feeling of false security.
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CodeMunch (95290) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:50AM (#9875887) Homepage
    but Doom has for the most part always been a First Person SHooter in the pure sense

    I strongly disagree for "the most part". In the beginning, sure - kuz it was weird to get together with your computers (ok its still weird but accepted) but after people discovered net play, single player was an afterthought. Back in 95/96/97 myself and a bunch of other doom][ addicts regularly gamed (DM) against each other. MajorBBS had an addon called "Gamecon" that would allow us to have up to 4 player deathmatch over 14.4k+ modems (although the doom gods wouldn't participate in this kind of fragfest). Sure we had fun playing the single player mission in the beginning but as soon as there was a way for us to kill each other, the single player was only there for when nobody was around to play DM.

    Hi to Yerac [doom2.net], Dasa, Timinator, Tower [doom2.net], Zakna, Megavolt, Kurupt, DeathIncarnate

  • by superultra (670002) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:59AM (#9875929) Homepage
    You're bitching as if this is something new. When Doom and Doom 2 were out, the situation was nearly the same. In fact, I knew dozens of people in my college dorm that played Doom 1/2 all the way through, and played all the damn time. I think of the 20-30, I can think of only two that had legit copies. Most had the pirated version, and others had only the shareware version.

    Proportionately, I'm fairly certain that the numbers of legit users to pirates are probably the same. Sure, there's a lot more pirates numerically, but I think that the ratio is probably no more than it was 10-15 years ago.

    An online author, and for the life of me I can't remember who (someone who linked to the article would be doing a huge favor), wrote a year or two ago that online piracy was a fact of life and should be considered a tax of popularity. Besides, how many people listen to the radio for one or two good songs from an album instead of buying the album? How many people read a book through their local library instead of buying it? How many people buy used games or music (and not a dollar of which sees iD or, say, Island Records)? Even if we're not talking intellectual property, how many jeans are stolen at the Gap?

    I think iD will walk out of Doom 3 quite a bit richer than if they hadn't released it all, so I wouldn't worry about John Carmack starving on the streets with a sign reading "Will Code Huge Hit Game for Food." If rampant piracy of their game somehow surprises iD, shame on them. People getting your product for free is part of doing business.
  • by Trent05 (70375) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:03AM (#9875948) Homepage
    In addition if it's a quality game, $54 dosen't seem like a whole lot of money. I spent $70 of paper route money to get Phantasy Star for my Sega Master System. A heck of a lot of money, but I played the hell out of it and I didn't feel ripped off in the least bit. The game was ahead of it's time and the people who made it deserved to get paid for what was probably a couple YEARS of work. I feel the same way with Doom 3. My copy is in the mail, at $45 I don't feel boned at all.

    CircuitCity.com [circuitcity.com] is cheaper than NewEgg.com [newegg.com]?? WTF
  • by Spankophile (78098) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:05AM (#9875960) Homepage

    How many times do I have to see:

    "10 out of 10!! I can't wait to play it!!!"

    WTF? That's not really a review is it.....
  • by Nataku564 (668188) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:20AM (#9876023)
    Heh, I suppose not ... but if not, then whatever source (parents or whatever) that got them that hardware should get them Doom 3 as well.
  • by SlugLord (130081) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:32AM (#9876075)
    "Despite the relatively low price of PC games, many gamers are still choosing to resort to piracy rather than pay for legitimate boxed copies," said Matt Pierce, publisher of the computer games magazine, PC Gamer.

    Forgive me for being a cynic, but I don't see 60 bucks as "relatively low price". Give me the game for 20 bucks (like counterstrike) and I'll go out and pay money. Try to sell it for 60 (especially a single player game) and I won't buy it. Either I just won't get it at all, or I'll just download or copy a friend's CD or (heavens no) I'll wait until he's done with it and play it afterwards. I can only assume that constitutes fair use of a single-computer licence, but I wouldn't be suprised if it were forbidden by the EULA.

    Yes,
  • by strider44 (650833) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:37AM (#9876088)
    As a budding (I'm not a world leader by any standards) software engineer, I feel obliged to respond.

    There's an enormous difference between a "good" programmer and a "bad" programmer, especially in the gaming and graphics industries.
    A "bad" programmer does this: He programs just what he has to do. He doesn't critically analyze his programs. He has no sence of programming style, and follows the General bad programming rules [mindprod.com].
    A "good" programmer strives to innovate. Not only does he have good style, optimises his work, comments his work (basically the opposite of the advice given in the link above), but he also thinks about new ways to do something. The main differences between the "good" mechanic or the "good" plumber, and a "good" programmer, is that a mechanic and plumber is taught to do everything exactly the same every time, and the more exact you have it, the better the job that's considered to be done. While there are differences between a mechanic fifty years ago and a mechanic now (mostly because of the computerization of cars now-a-days), it's still a very similar job. A good programmer constantly tries to think of new ways to do things.

    John Carmack writing Laberynth figured out a new way of making games look 3D. He pioneered a new genre with a one (notably unsuccessful game). This took enormous innovative skills. In every one of his games he's done something new and creative - even in Doom 3 he made several new routines: the Z-Fail algorithm, the Carmack Mirror (I might be wrong with the name there - I'm doing this adlib), as well as a couple of geometry-reduction algorithms etc. That's what makes him a good programmer.
  • Deus Ex 1 also (Score:3, Insightful)

    by caitsith01 (606117) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:03AM (#9876211) Journal
    The spiritual successor to SS2...
  • No... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rd_syringe (793064) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:08AM (#9876234) Journal
    I expected something to differentiate it enough to make me want to play. Is that so much to ask?

    Half-Life was different. That's why I liked it. Deus Ex was different. That's why I liked it. Far Cry was different...you get the idea.

    Hell, I've already SEEN this shadowy bump-mapped corridor thing done in Far Cry's interior levels. Yet those areas were interspersed between buggy/boat driving, gorgeous tropical outdoor environments...hell, even hangliding.

    I'm hugely disappointed. I was a big fan of the original Doom games, but even they provided more variety than this. EVERY SINGLE ROOM is dark and shadowy. After a while, I was predicting every corner that something would be hiding in and pop out of. It felt so contrived.

    Think about this--would this game be getting the press it's getting if it was done by a company other than id Software and wasn't carrying the name "Doom" on the box? No...people would be saying the bump-mapping is nice, but the gameplay is repetitive. How PC Gamer gave this a 94% amazes me. Wait, I forgot, id Software is the gaming media's darling child. Meanwhile, Epic, CryTek, Valve, and more have all caught up to id and surprassed them.

    It's like id Software made a FPS from the 90s. Run, shoot, run. But with even less variety than the original Doom! They haven't caught onto the current FPS genre at all. Nice engine, but boring game.
  • by ringbarer (545020) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:14AM (#9876261) Homepage Journal
    Is that before or after Duke Nukem Forever comes out?
  • Re:I just got it. (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:31AM (#9876340)
    The reasoning behind that is flawed. Most players play with the graphical options turned off, since it allows the game to run quicker, something more important on a multiplayer game.

    Spending no effort of the graphics then making it primarily a single player game defeats the point.

    Having a game with greater graphics (yes, needing a higher spec machine), is normally what the industry is about. Pushing forwards.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:46AM (#9876402)
    Oh you're *guessing*. I'm sure your opinion must be correct, any guess you pull out of your ass is as good as hard fact, right? The developers and publishers are both going to make a killing on a game like Doom 3. There's no chance in hell that the game will fail to turn a profit, and everybody knows it. They're doing what any rational company in a capitalist system does-price the product to maximize revenue. Go look up some fucking facts about how much it costs before you start making up imaginary numbers.
  • by aztracker1 (702135) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:51AM (#9876420) Homepage
    I was thinking the same thing.. on the xbox side, can't really pirate that easily.. and on the pc side, if you can afford a $1K pc or so for decent playability in the game, I think you can afford $54 for a top title.. just my $.02
  • by Mal-2 (675116) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:00AM (#9876452) Homepage Journal
    This neglects that Doom had a freely distributable, fully playable demo with a few levels (three I think) and of course, not all the cool weapons and monsters (because they didn't exist in those three levels). Most BBSes of the day kept a copy up, at least until everyone and their grandmother had it. So you could tell if this was the sort of thing you were going to like, BEFORE you plunked down a portion of your limited income on it. I fail to see why they didn't do this with Doom 3, but the consequence is that the crowd that must try before they buy is going to grab it off BitTorrent. If they like it, some (or maybe even most) of them are going to buy it.

    It's not legal, and it's arguably immoral, but downloading Doom 3 is just a functional workaround for the "no demo" situation for a lot of people. I know I would prefer to download a limited but legal copy over a pirated one, if given the opportunity.

    Mal-2
  • by gordo3000 (785698) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:03AM (#9876467)
    I can:

    Mom, dad, I need this computer with a radeon 9800XT and a 3 Ghz HT P4 because I will be studying all the time and I have to do it to do good in class. I can even use it to run programs to help with stuff for college and all

    "well, johnny, ok, if you will be using it to study and it will really help you get into a good college then I think it's a good 2500 dollars spent. *to store clerk* I don't know much about these computers but my son does and he has to have the top of the line for school so just get whatever he thinks is good."

    3 months later, with no work ever being done on the computer, the parent realizes all the computer is now being used for is chatting online, reading email, and games that were bought ages ago. Doom III is released.

    Dad, I want to get this oh so cool game dad. Everyone is buying it and it's the coolest thing ever.

    Dad, while not knowing much about computers, knows about scams and suddenly realizes he was being completely played for a fool. He says "no" and Johnny still wants that game. Oh what ever does a young school boy do, who spends all his time doing nothing very productive(part time jobs are not an option for johnny, he isn't used to his parents seeing through his bullshit, but then, this is probably the first time it cost so much).

    Part time jobs are not the option but his best buddy just told him about suprnova, a great sight that you can get anything for free. After misspelling the name several times and going to the .com and .net versions of the site, he finally kicks off the download.

    Yeah, this happens. I did it once, convincing my parents that a top of the line computer was needed for school. Unfortunately my uncle and aunt are computer engineers so they got calls first and my bull shit only had a slight effect. Not so many people have that uncle or aunt who can ruin those hard worked plans.
  • by NerveGas (168686) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:23AM (#9876569)
    In your options, turn up the brightness. You'll find it much more enjoyable. But in answer to your question, the reason it's so freaking dark is because (a) it's supposed to be scary, and (b) the entire environment is based on dynamic lighting.

    The darkness really does add to the scary feel, and it's tough to show off dynamic lighting when everything's brightly lit.

    steve
  • by croddy (659025) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:02AM (#9876689)
    the doom 1 demo was the first 10 out of 30 levels, uncrippled.
    the full package of levels went for $40.00 in 1994.

    doom 3 is a much more complicated piece of software, running on much more complicated platforms. the level designs are a few orders of magnitude more complex than doom 1/2 level designs.

    the demo's coming.
    don't pee your pants.

    it could be worse... i'm waiting on the linux binaries.

  • by DiscoOnTheSide (544139) <ajfili&eden,rutgers,edu> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:03AM (#9876699) Homepage
    eh, its not that bad. I'm running a 128MB FX5200 on a 2.6Ghz P4 (800Mhz Buss) with 512 of dual-channel DDR RAM.

    I run at 640x480 at medium detail and it's smooth as silk (I average aroudn 40 FPS) . On high detail it still does well but gets choppy in some places (~30 most areas, with dips around 15-20). 800x600 on medium gives the same effect. Resolution in this game is HIGHLY overrated. I know you have that urge to play at 1024x768, but really, its not needed. I don't know how he did it, but 640x480 is looking better than HL at 1280x1024. No AA needed.

    I just beat it. My god, I'd pay MORE than $55 than this. It was great.

    And for everyone saying it was a HL rip off? HAH. My ass. HL ripped off Doom in the first place. I loved HL, dont get me wrong. It's the golden standard for anything nowadays, but Doom 3 just raised that fucking bar. I'll now rate any single player experience to Doom 3.

    People who say that it was repetitive... you know what? Maybe it was. But you're on a space station, filled with monsters... what else is there to do? A relaxing game a racketball? And for those bitching the guns were "uninspired" no, they're fucking realistic (ok, I know guns like the plasma rifle and BFG aren't "realistic" but if you're gonna have shit that can store energy BETWEEN the nucleus and the electron shell (watch those video disks in game) I would LIKE to think we can have guns like that. No alt fire? People have been spoiled with this shit... the ONLY thing I can think of that should be added is a "pistol whip" feature, like in Halo. Can't have the flashlight out with the gun? That adds to the fear... "Do I have my gun out so I can shoot shit or would I rather see..." It adds to the tenstion of the game. People who complain about that stuff, as far as I'm concerned are "spoiled" by shit like that... if you're in a riot situation are you gonna bitch that the pistol you grabbed and the maglight you found can't be one unit? No. You use what you have and deal with it. Thats call "immersion" you stop thinking like a spoiled little person with unlimited resources and start thinking like a marine stuck out in space with only a few tools at his disposal...

    Gah. The amount of naysaying about this game pisses me off. Instead of realizing the amount of work and study that went into this, people are brats. That Time article said Carmack studied optics for four years to make the engine work better, be more realistic. Thats fucking dedication.

    The man invented our pastime, lets show some respect for christ's sake.

  • by mabhatter654 (561290) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:12AM (#9876714)
    but in 6 months the price of the PC version will be 39.99 or less and the xbox version will still be 49.99 new...the PC titles have a very short attention span and a steeper pricing drop off than other markets...

    at this point Activision could probably get away with more than that because it's so eagerly awaited. Of course if they'd plan a little better they could include cool stuff in the first round not included later...as better "swag" for getting it early and paying the higher price. If they'd put more swag in up front for the first round of buyers they'd get more of the high priced sales...versus the people that pick it up on sale at christmas.

  • Re:Tweak Settings (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Spy Hunter (317220) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:13AM (#9876719) Journal
    Doom 3 is different from every other 3D game out there in that you really just can't see a lot of stuff because it's too dark, and that's the way it's *supposed* to be. Other games might have one or two "use your flashlight here" areas that are completely pitch black, but during the rest of the game you won't need the flashlight at all. In Doom the flashlight is meant to be an integral part of the gameplay. It's even got its own button right next to the movement keys. Every single room has corners dark enough that you can't see into them without the flashlight. The game is *completely playable* at the default gamma setting, just more difficult because in the dark you have to choose between seeing (flashlight) or shooting. You have to learn to stick to the lit areas so that you can see the monsters when they come out to attack you. (*gasp* stategy?) If Id had made gamma an option, people would just turn it way up because in every other game they can always see everything. The dark really is dark, people, you can't see in it. Don't change the gamma.
  • by DiscoOnTheSide (544139) <ajfili&eden,rutgers,edu> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:16AM (#9876730) Homepage
    They DID do something new after Doom 2... Quake...
  • by danila (69889) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @05:02AM (#9876874) Homepage
    Another great example is Alien vs. Predator 2. The game is designed such that you don't encounter a monster for about 3 or 4 levels from the beginning, BUT you are being scared from the start (and rather well). Suspence builds up as nowhere else. Finally you are sent to restart flight control computer and it's pretty obvious that finally IT will happen. Still, you need to play most of the level and only then in a brilliant scene you face several alien drones. More scary than anything else except for the episode a few levels later when you are running from the base infested by aliens. Immersion is amazing, my heart was beating like mad.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @06:14AM (#9877159)
    John, (I hope it's really you)
    This is the best looking game I've ever played, and I've been playing it on the lowest possible graphics settings. I love the allusions to the originals in Doom3.
  • by Phisbut (761268) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @09:39AM (#9878244)
    It has a suggested retail price of $54.99, and most gamer kids just don't have that.

    The game is rated M for mature... gamer kids shouldn't even play the game in the first place.

  • Re:Meanwhile (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shish (588640) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @10:21AM (#9878647) Homepage
    And more importantly (for some of us at least); In four years time, hardware that meets the minimum specs will be in the bargain bin too.

    eg. I'm running 3 500MHz boxes and 2 266es, all taken from other people's bins, bargain and otherwise :)

  • by M.C. Hampster (541262) <M DOT C DOT TheHampster AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @10:29AM (#9878742) Journal

    Is it a blatant money-grub becuase they know people will pay the higher price? Yes. Will it have a large effect on sales? Probably not.
    So, good move for them financially, but perhaps a bad move ethically.

    There is never a lack of understanding of simple supply and demand on Slashdot. Since when is charging a price that people are willing to pay "a bad move ethically"? Since when is investing and risking your own money into the creation of a product and then releasing said product to the world for a price they are fine with paying "a blatant money-grub" (sic)?

    Let me ask you. Do you try to maximize the money you make in your workplace (I'm assuming you work)? Or do you say to your employer, "You know, you really pay me more than I need. I wish you would lower my pay by $.50 an hour, or whatever. Do you? Don't you feel bad that you are so unethical for trying to make the most money you can at what you do?

    I can't believe there are people that actually think making money off a product is unethical. Do you think companies are out to break even? Of course not, that's not why they exist. Would you rather id and Activision not even exist, so they wouldn't have even made Doom 3, and their evil plot to make money hadn't occurred? Seriously, try to think critically before you speak.

  • by @madeus (24818) <slashdot_24818@mac.com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:45PM (#9880203)
    Did I mention that your flashlight is separate from your guns, and you can't even have a pistol and flashlight out at the same time? Combine that with how freaking dark Doom 3 is (and it is VERY dark), and you'll either be getting chewed up switching back and forth from flashlight to gun, or just firing blindly in the dark. Yeah, that's fun alright.

    I agree. While it's an interesting idea, it's also frequently just annoying. You are frequently just shooting into the dark with no idea if the zombie you are shooting at is dead or not. You have to wait litteraly till it whacks you, or switch to the light then switch back. That's frankly just dull and irrtating. I wouldn't mind so much if when you hit zombies with the flash light it did decent damange, but it's basically worthless (not like melee in Halo).

    Speaking of which, why doesn't EVERY game allow you to melee attack with every weapon? That was a great idea in Halo, as was the damage / health system. They make for great gameplay and I'm stunned that certainly the former wasn't implimented. It's so simple and yet huge amounts of fun.

    I did like some elements, like how you unlock the Chaingun, and some of the traps which I thought were funny (like the one where the floor drops early on) but as you say, many are repetative, and frankly annoying.

    Shooting zombies is basically fun though, and the shotgun is well balanced, but they could so easily have done much more. I had more fun with Halo if I'm honest (which I've had on both X-Box and PC and played repeatedly, having done some levels easily 20 times or more I'd play it more if they released that damn Halo CE patch for the PC single player version so it perform on a par with other games, but the PC port was pretty shoddy).

    A lot of the elements in Far Cry where simply much more impressive, and Unreal approximates similar quality in many levels while still having an engine capeable of rendering scenes seen in the *origional* Doom series). The origional Doom 1 and 2 levels were more fun IMO. They were far more open and much less repetative, even if the action was cruder.

    The zombie marines in Doom 3 either run up and empty their clip at you, or find a single spot of cover and pop out every couple seconds to shoot. Pretty much everything demonic just rushes you from whatever wall compartment you walked by.

    Agreed and agreed. The ability IMP's have to jump to your position only makes this situation worse IMO (I dont mean the 'spawning/warping in' I mean the jumping ability that allows them go from the other side of the room to in your face, which make obstacle design in the level pointless).

    Doom 3 makes an awesome first impression, but in the end the whole experience is just shallow. The engine is incredible and no doubt the mod scene will do some amazing stuff with it, but Doom 3 isn't revolutionary. Hell, it's barely evolutionary.

    I very much agree with that. A shame really given the team and the license. Great engine, maps, art, sounds, models, animation and some nice touches (like the PDA system & various set pieces). But it seems like it didn't have someone arguing strongly enough in support of overall gameplay as the top priority, ensuring it was a really fun experience.

    I just come away with the impression it was a showboat for ID's latest engine to entice licencees. I haven't got my hands on HL2 yet of course, but if I was developing a game I'd be strongly be considering the value added gameplay elements that comes from using the physics of HL2's Source engine.

    I'm interested to see what the modding community do, but frankly it's so hard to create levels with the requisite amount of detail that people have come to expect these days that modding is becoming increasingly difficult - so I'm a little aprehensive about that, and don't think it will be nearly as popular as the origional in that respect.

    Personally I think it would have been much more in the spirit of the origional to create an engine and development tool that allowed anyone with a spare weekend to crank out a reasonable level (you could have it use a standard tile system for room design, much like creating a level for Wolf 3D, and have it be themeable)
  • by M.C. Hampster (541262) <M DOT C DOT TheHampster AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @12:52PM (#9880296) Journal

    Hey man, I'm with you. I'll be purchasing it later, when the price comes down. It is one way to exert downward pressure on prices.

    However, I was not talking about people complaining the price was too high. I was talking about someone saying it was "unethical" what they are charging. They are perfectly within their rights to say so, but they are completely wrong.

  • Lost in the dark? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by choovanski (780936) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @01:47PM (#9880884)
    > hell I'm running with gamma at 2.0 and brightness
    > almost maxed and I'm lost in the dark half the
    > time...

    Err... I think that was kind of the idea. You know, atmosphere and all.

    Gamma at 2.0 with the brightness maxed out? You're cheating yourself.

    Doom 3 + empty house with all the lights off + 5.1 sound = the most fear you're going to get without actually putting yourself in harms way...

    In fact I'm dying to play right now but I refuse to during the daytime. :)
  • by necrognome (236545) * on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:34AM (#9889378) Homepage
    Try mapping the flashlight to your right mouse button. Now the flashlight is "Alt-Fire" for any of your weapons.
  • by Cornflake917 (515940) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:57PM (#9890400) Homepage
    After a while, I was guessing every corner something would be in. Sure enough. It got to the point where for every new room I entered, I would run in to hit the trigger than backgrack and just wait for whatever it was to appear so I could kill it and move on. I didn't feel like I had any real room to fight the monsters, and it was too dark for me to get any good shots, so that's how it mostly was for me.

    Wasn't this type of combat the whole point of the friggin game? If you had more room and lighting to make the process of killing the monsters easier, wouldn't that just make the game more boring?

    Alot of the complaints I hear is that people eventually begin to succesuffully and repetively guess where the monsters will be hiding and when they will come out? And some how this repitition is boring. My question is how is this different from any other fucking game? Say you play a track on a racing game over and over and you memorize the turns in your head. It's not boring because you beging to kick ass once you learn the tracks. Or when you face a common monster in an RPG that you know is weak to a certain spell. Or when you find out what units in an RTS counter other units. Even in half-life most of your time was spent backstepping and blowing up little bugs and zombies. My point is that all games or repetitive in some way. But it's HOW the game is repetitive that's important to me. If you don't like fighting in the dark (ie getting your ass kicked), hang out in a place where a monster has to walk through a lighted area to get to you. Even your running in and running out is a tactic that you can use. Developing tactics to overcome the difficulties of the enviroment is what makes the game fun. Since when does learning how to play a game make it more boring?

    If you are really dissapointed because you didn't like this type of the close-quartered,challenging, frightening combat...something which iD was saying they were gonna do THIS WHOLE FUCKING TIME, then maybe should read the previews, reviews, and looked at some of the screenshots BEFORE you bought/pirated the game.

    I get the feeling you were expecting Half-life 2 when you played Doom3. Why don't you just play the game for what it's worth instead comparing it to something that's totally different.

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