Racial Issues Alleged In GTA San Andreas, Other Games 189
Thanks to the New York Times (free reg. req.) for its article exploring possible racial stereotyping inherent in many videogames. The article alleges: "Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas... underscores what some critics consider a disturbing trend: popular video games that play on racial stereotypes, including images of black youths committing and reveling in violent street crime." Partially, though not wholly related to a recently discussed article on 'street' videogames, it's also argued: "The issue, critics say, is not that the games' representation of racial and ethnic minorities is as blatantly threatening as the sort found at hate sites on the Web, where players are asked to gun down virtual black or Jewish characters. Rather, the racial and ethnic depictions and story lines are more subtle, and therefore, some say, more insidious."
racial stereotypes (Score:5, Insightful)
Only white people can commit violence in video games now? And here I thought people were complaining because there weren't enough minorities in video games, now you can't put them into video games without someone complaining about the way they're portrayed (come on, this isn't like that Duke3D-engine game from a few years ago featuring an Asian protagonist, but then no one complained about the depiction of white people in Redneck Rampage, either).
Hollywood movies are worse at stereotyping (Score:2, Insightful)
Racism, pure and simple (Score:5, Insightful)
Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Whatever. (Score:5, Insightful)
I personally never found it very surprising that sports games sell well among minorities. They're one of the few genres of game where you can count on seeing successful minorities being judged solely on thier abilities, accomplishments, and occasionally team affiliation. (c'mon, we all have rivalries
Oh, and as far as Rockstar using racial stereotypes in their games... no guff chet. You can be offended if you choose, but at least don't act so surprised.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:negative racial overtones (Score:3, Insightful)
The simple fact is that the basis for the entire game is centered around the "gangsta-rap-culture" movies produced in the late 80s and throughout the 90s. Most of these movies obtained their direction (especially in the form of writing, acting, etc) from the very people that are supposedly being slandered by this game.
People like to talk about the music and movie industries taking advantage of people, but in the end, "gangsta" rappers were among the first people to take control over their own careers by creating their own record labels and taking on most of the production positions normally filled by whoever the record label feels like putting in the studio. The primary reason they did this, of course, was that labels wouldn't touch their music until the early 90s unless there was someone else to take the heat for the language and portrayal of violence. Once the music became popular, of course, the movie deals came, and in many cases the artists exerted similar (though not to the same extent, due to the difference in the type of knowledge required) control.
Now we have someone making a game based around the image that these movies and music portrayed, much like their previous GTA title was based heavily on the image portrayed by a combination of Miami Vice, Scarface, and other movies and TV shows portraying cops and gangsters in the 80s. This particular game company has learned that taking essentially the same game (GTA3) and putting period elements on it makes it more appealing to the demographic that is supposed to be mature enough to play these games in the first place (after all, what do people born after 1985 really have to feel nostalgic about from the 80s, or really remember about the explosion of "gangsta rap" in the late 80s and early 90s?).
Then again, if it were simply another white or Italian protagonist, we'd only be hearing about the violence itself, unless some gang in the game was named after their race.
What's new? (Score:2, Insightful)
you know... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Art imitates Life."
Re:USofAns (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, this could get ugly quick, but:
Right now, there is a correlation with young black people and a violent, not-very-educated street culture. There are violent, undeucated people of all colors, of course, and you're doing yourself and the culture at large a disservice if you "profile" someone exclusively on skin tone, and there are tons of historical reasons why that subset of black culture exists and is such a noticable cultural force, but what she's getting at is it's sometimes hard to get in a reasonable conversation about the kind of phenomenon with the term "RACIST!" being slung around and shutting down productive conversation.
The fact is, given some reasonable definitions of racism, most people are racist to greater or less degrees: often concerned about the well-being of their subset social group (like, heh, Geeks on slashdot...), and also using a variety of visual and audio cues to make at least a first best guess about what that person is all about. (and like in the case of a bunch urban-looking youths or redneck-looking bikers, if they're likely to be some kind of threat.) Really worrisome racism is when people can't get past their subgroup concerns and first impressions and preconceived notions; to damn everyone who has any twinges of that feeling is not helpful.
Is stereotyping taboo or something? (Score:2, Insightful)
If Australopithecus found a red bulb that smelled and tasted good, then saw another bulb of the same color and smell, it would eat it. Ergo, racial profiling. Seriously.
The statistical reality is that the super majority of Grand Theft Auto crimes are committed by Black and Hispanic people. Apparently even suggesting this statistical fact is "stereotyping" and intrinsically racist, even lacking specific extrapolation. When a Black or Hispanic is portrayed as committing a crime "not unbeknownst to their race," as it were, the furor erupts - but why?
I think the real reason for outcry is (and I don't say this with cruelty) embarassment, plain and simple. You see the same sort of shame from the Italian/Sicilian-American community over gangster portrayals, and from Americans over "ugly American" portrayals. But embarassing facts coming out in the open always causes shame. I don't see why reality should be ignored in order to assauge someone's feelings about their social status. There is absolutely nothing wrong, or even incorrect, about portraying "brown people" committing urban crimes, rioting, looting, etc. And since there is absolutely no indication in GTA4 that these "brown people" are representative of all others in all other cases, I don't see how this could be construed as racist by any but the embarrassed themselves.
Quentin Tarentino? (Score:3, Insightful)
--
Evan
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:racial stereotypes (Score:2, Insightful)
The Italians didn't get much press coverage if they were complaining about the protagonist of the first game. Yes, the violence itself was an issue, and probably will remain an issue (and it was in the first and second games as well, despite your own down-playing of it due to the top-down view, the very idea that you could car-jack someone in a game caused controversy). The "Kill the Cubans/Haitians" thing, as you noted, didn't have an effect until maybe a year ago, and Vice City was released almost 2 years ago. It had already sold most of the copies it will sell for the PS2 and PC before the controversy over those lines even started, and the fact that they pulled it precisely shows how rediculous this whole thing is (after all, the gangs called themselves The Cubans and The Haitians, and it was the latter that got the lines pulled, not the Cubans).
My point was not that this was the first to draw controversy. My point was simply to point out that this game has not changed in any fundamental line from the previous 2, and it's drawing this particular controversy simply because the main character (and many of the characters in the game's setting, I'd imagine) is black, instead of being of European descent like the previous games. People weren't complaining about the main character's ethnicity or even the ethnicity of most of the other characters in the games before (the "kill the cubans/haitians" thing had everything to do with the exact statement, or it wouldn't have stopped with the modification of a couple of sound files), they simply complained about the violence in general terms.
Re:A question about the figures... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hollywood movies are worse at stereotyping (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Whatever. (Score:4, Insightful)
A) There aren't many black characters in video games.
B) When there are black characters in video games, they are either violent characters or athletes.
Well, most popular video games are sports games or shooters of some kind. Therefore, most major characters will be violent characters or athletes. To solve problem (A) would be to exacerbate problem (B). To completely solve problem (B) would nearly eliminate black characters from games, putting problem (A) back in the fore.
Personally, I think GTA:SA will probably be relatively fair (remember I said relatively). Showing violence isn't the worst thing. I bet the guys at Rockstar will be looking to movies like "Boyz N the Hood" for inspiration and tone, and the main characters will come off no worse than the main characters in past GTA games.