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Puzzle Games (Games)

Hydra vs. Shredder 252

Posted by michael from the teenage-mutant-ninja-computers dept.
azaris writes "The powerful computer chess engine Hydra, running on a sixteen-way Linux cluster, is taking on the many times world champion engine Shredder in a match between the two chess super computers in Abu Dhabi, according to ChessBase.com. So far, Hydra is leading by two clear victories." S!: ChessBase also points to the announcement of a "64,000 square meter International Chess City" in Dubai, planned to cost US $2.6 billion, which "will feature 32 buildings designed to mirror the image of a traditional black and white game board."
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Hydra vs. Shredder More

Hydra vs. Shredder

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  • Wow! (Score:3, Funny)

    by cytoman ( 792326 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:33PM (#9975960)
    I wonder which will be the most costly squares... the "King" squares or the "Queen" squares :-D. The whole rows of "Pawn" squares will be selling cheap.
    • There is now a Checker City being built in Berwin Illinois that will be 12 million cubic miles and cost 17 trillion billion gazillion dollars!

  • Wow. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by nuclear305 ( 674185 ) * on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:34PM (#9975970)
    It's a US $2.6 billion project that is expected to play host to (hold on to your hats) 60 million amateur and professional chess followers annually.

    That's a lot of chess players, considering some of the best known tourist attractions don't even get those kind of numbers annually. Do we even have that many chess players worldwide? :)

  • Looking forward to it (Score:5, Interesting)

    by r.jimenezz ( 737542 ) <rjimenezh@@@gmail...com> on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:36PM (#9975986)
    This is going to be interesting. While Shredder is a software engine running on standard hardware, I recall reading in Chessbase sometime that Hydra is an FPG-based engine. So in a sense it is a return to the days of Deep Blue and it should be interesting to see how well it fares against the current crop of "standard" engines.
    • From the article...
      "The many-times world champion Shredder will take on Hydra, a Deep Blue style hardware program which was originally developed by ChessBase and is now being maintained by the Pal Group of Companies in Abu Dhabi."

      Is this what you meant? :)
    • The 16 way Linux Cluster uses the 3.06 Xeon processor for each node. Now, why didn't they use the Opteron? Has it got something to do with sponsorship? We know that the Opteron is faster than the Xeon and in chess, ANY additional processing power in an engine vs engine game is welcome.

      Also, if I have my basic concepts right, a cluster is a bunch of networked machines whose processing power is combined through software. So we need to add networking speeds into the mix here. I remember reading somewhere that
      • More likely it's the compiler, I don't know what language the chess program is written in, but generally using the intel compilers for C or Fortran you can optimise the performance significantly . it might be in this case the gcc compiler wasn't fast enough.
  • Codename: Deep Thought.

  • New York was considering a gaming plan... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:39PM (#9975996)
    ...where they converted part of the island into a GTA level, but 9/11 came along and John Carpenter threatened to sue. I guess there's always Broadway.

  • IBM computer? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cytoman ( 792326 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:39PM (#9975999)
    Whatever happened to that IBM computer which competed against and defeated Gary Kasparov? And the other computers that IBM built specifically for playing chess?

  • great ! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:40PM (#9976005)
    Abu Dabi gets a multi billion dollar tacky las vegas style exhibit while millions in Sudan and Africa starve, imagine how many water pipes and medical supplies you could buy for 2.3 billion large

    oh well i guess we can dream and play chess while others worry about being pawns in someone elses game

    • And those damn cops should be catching terrorists instead of pulling over speeders.

      Oh, and I assume you donate all of your disposable income and all of your free time to charity.

      Sorry for feeding the trolls (we trolls need to stick together)
    • I have mod points but there was no "+1 you-made-me-sad-but-I-can't-possibly-be-mad-at-you -for-bringing-this-up" moderation option.

    • Re:great ! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Guppy06 ( 410832 )
      "(Dubai) gets a multi billion dollar tacky las vegas style exhibit while millions in Sudan and Africa starve, imagine how many water pipes and medical supplies you could buy for 2.3 billion large"

      All the devout Muslims in Dubai are already tithing to charities as required by their faith. Just how much of their paychecks do you think they should be required to part with?
      • Well, they pledged to give $500,000 to UNRWA in 2003. And 2002. And 2001.

        Considering that UNRWA deals with a problem much closer to home, and that they're spending 2.6 BILLION dollars on Chess City, I think its fair to expect a little bit more than a half-million for UNRWA.

        (The $27 million donation in 2002? Came from UAE Red Crescent, not from the UAE.)

  • The CHESS Buildings (Score:3, Funny)

    by Insipid Trunculance ( 526362 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:40PM (#9976007) Homepage
    Any idea which style of architecture is the castle going to be built in?

  • Abu Dhabi isnt listed anywhere in that song from the musical chess. :)

  • Easy (Score:5, Funny)

    by eln ( 21727 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:44PM (#9976020)
    If the Teenage Mutant Nina Turtles can kick Shredder's ass between pizza binges, surely a Hydra should have no problem with it at all.
  • The cluster resides in the server room of Pal Group of companies in Abu Dhabi. Author Chrilly Donninger will access it from the tournament hall using an Internet connection.

    I know what the script kiddies will be doing this week...

    -Adam

  • The Futue (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Hockney Twang ( 769594 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:49PM (#9976043)
    So this is the future of chess, and maybe even eventually all games requiring logic. We'll just pit computers against one another, and people won't even play anymore.

    • Re:The Futue (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Timesprout ( 579035 )
      No we will just invent games that require intuition as well as logic

      • Re:The Futue (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jnana ( 519059 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:35PM (#9976286) Journal
        Silicon-based computers excel at logic. Carbon-based computors excel at pattern-recognition and that whole sphere of massively parallel modes of thinking that one might call intuition.

        The best carbon chess players are still about equal with the best silicon chess players, and they sure as hell are not doing that with silicon-type logic (evaluating billions of nodes in a search tree). That implies to me that there's a hell of a lot of intuition, for want of a better word, in chess.

      • ..and ultimately what game would that be, or even _could_ be, that is turn based and about moving game pieces?

        intuition is just a nifty tool to help you make end up with a logical(working) solution faster.

        besides, somebody has to build these things anyways.

        by the way, has motorsports made sports like running irrelevant?
      • Like Go [wikipedia.org]?
    • Well apparently Dubai is spending $2.6 billion thinking that people will still play chess. If you read the article, they expect over 60 million visitors per year.

    • Re:The Futue (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Beryllium Sphere(tm) ( 193358 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:31PM (#9976267) Journal
      >We'll just pit computers against one another, and people won't even play anymore.

      Why?

      Humans still compete with each other at lifting weights, moving fast, and throwing things. Machines have long since outclassed us at those activities but we still relish the challenge.

    • Re:The Futue (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Lispy ( 136512 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:38PM (#9976299) Homepage
      Well,it didn't work the first time when we invented VCRs to watch TV for us.

    • Re:The Futue (Score:2, Interesting)

      by ChiRaven ( 800537 )
      Actually, I think it was John Von Neumann, the father of game theory, who siad that chess was not really a game, in the strategic sense, but really just a computational problem. Enormously complex, but still just a computational problem

  • 64,000 square meter (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dj245 ( 732906 )
    So the square will be 8 kilometers on one side? 4.8 miles? I hope a lot of it is courtyard between the buildings.

  • GNU/Chess (Score:5, Funny)

    by vuvewux ( 792756 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:52PM (#9976060)
    Anyone know how GNU/Chess stacks up in comparison to these?

  • Chess icon? (Score:5, Funny)

    by dexter riley ( 556126 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:52PM (#9976061)
    I think /. needs a chess icon; I can't be the only one who saw the headline and thought two machines were playing each other in a Tetris tournament.

  • Cowabunga, dudes! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:53PM (#9976063)
    It is commonly believed that when "the evil Shredder attacks, these turtle boys won't cut him no slack!"

    Teenage Mutant Ninja Hydra
    Teenage Mutant Ninja Hydra
    Heroes in a cluster
    Linux Power!

  • Mistake in caption... (Score:4, Informative)

    by EvilFrog ( 559066 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @05:53PM (#9976064)
    I'm not terribly familiar with the geography of the region, so I guess I could be reading the map wrong, but the article shows that the "Chess City" is being built in Dubai, not Abu Dhabi. The map in the article shows both places, and they appear to be nowhere near one another.

  • Of course. When a TMNT villain and terrorist group of old nazis from the Marvel universe meet, they'll sit down and have a game of chess. Perfectly logical.

    Come on now. We know this is going to turn into a guns vs. ninjitsu fight. So who do you think will win ?

  • Too much money (Score:5, Funny)

    by Moderation abuser ( 184013 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:10PM (#9976168)
    2.6 billion making a chess board? Hmm, I wonder who's paying for that then.

    I know, it's all you SUV drivers.

  • many times world champion engine Shredder (Score:3, Insightful)

    by trb ( 8509 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:12PM (#9976175)
    The "many times world champion engine" Shredder, is not the current world champion engine. That would be Junior, [slashdot.org] which is programmed by Israeli Jews. You wouldn't want them in Abu Dhabi, would you?
    • Like many others, you are mistaken in assuming that all Arab nations are anti-Jewish to the core. FYI, the UAE is much more cosmopolitan than Saudi Arabia or other such Islamic states. Here's a like to help you understand this region better : http://uaeinteract.com/government/ [uaeinteract.com].

      Just like IBM computers are not listed to be at this place, I'm sure that Junior is also bound by some issues such that it is not represented at Abu Dhabi.

      • I'm sure that Junior is also bound by some issues such that it is not represented at Abu Dhabi.

        You may be sure, I am not so sure. I don't mean to head off into troll territory, but you are saying that I'm making the mistaken assumption that all Arab nations are anti-Jewish, etc. I didn't say that, and I know that Jordan and Egypt have peace treaties with Israel, and that certain countries like Morocco and Turkey have more cordial relations with Israel.

        I'm sure that you are mistaken about Junior being

  • Can they move the buildings?

  • Submission Checks (Score:5, Informative)

    by hoofie ( 201045 ) <mickey&mouse,com> on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:21PM (#9976217)
    Do the submitters ever check what they type ?

    Its NOT Abu Dhabi, its Dubai - very close to each other, but seperate soverign states (although they are often described as Gulf Emirates).

    Dubai is in the midst of a massive tourism push, spending billions of pounds/dollars/whatever on tourism projects. They have some of the best hotels in the world there.

    I've been to Dubai and its a cracking place - all the mystic and personality of the Gulf Arab world, without too much(yet) of the raving fundamentalism. [For some who lived for 3 years in Saudi Arabia, Dubai was the promised land - the enjoyment of living in the gulf with legal booze !]
    • Do the comment submitters ever check what they type ?

      The tournament is in Abu Dhabi, as the summary says:

      "The powerful computer chess engine Hydra...is taking on the many times world champion engine Shredder in a match between the two chess super computers in Abu Dhabi"
      -/. Summary

      "The venue is Abu Dhabi or Abu Zaby"
      -First article

      What is occuring in Dubai is the construction of the Chess Palace.

      "ChessBase also points to the announcement of a "64,000 square meter International Chess City" in Dubai"
      -/. Su
      • When I made my original post, the submission clearly stated 'Abu Dhabi' as the location for BOTH facilities - chess computer and chess center. [Other posters pointed this out]. My comment was based on the submission on the chess center being wrong at that time. Don't believe everything you read !
  • If the playground will be like real chess board, with buildings like figures, can the buildings move like playing real chess?

    Let those aliens know we can play chess; with buildings.

  • When I was a kid.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by callipygian-showsyst ( 631222 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:29PM (#9976259) Homepage
    I used to *love* speaking in Abu Dhabi [wikipedia.org]. It was so easy to learn, and really through the parents off!

    And how the heck did Burnadette do that thing with her arms?

    • As a kid, I knew quite a bit about geography and stuff. However, the only reason I knew Abu Dhabi even existed was from when Garfield would take Nermal on "field trips" to the UPS Store. "Cutest Kitten in the World" my butt!
  • FIDE President Kirsan Ilyumzhinov has just unveiled a plan to build a new "chess city" in the Emirate of Dubai. It's a US $2.6 billion project that is expected to play host to (hold on to your hats) 60 million amateur and professional chess followers annually.

    This would be a monumental example of the one of the reasons (brutal repression being another) why the present leadership in Arab countries is so detested by their own Muslim populations and others of that faith around the world. Chess is considered
    • This is insightful? That it would be better if chess were banned in these places because it offends some religious sensibilities? What a world. Should this person have been fired? [local6.com] I love the twisting of the 1st amendment in that one. Priceless.

      Should my daughter wear a burqa lest someone be offended? Or is it ok that she doesn't as long as I understand that she is inviting rape? [parapundit.com]

      Wouldn't it actually be better if "their own Muslim populations and others of that faith around the world" were more tol
    • I chose not to post a qualifier even though I was on the verge of doing so seconds after I hit Send, but as more AC's may jump all over it if I don't, I was referring in my second analogy to the evangelical Protestants who give the bible belt its name.
    • This would be a monumental example of the one of the reasons (brutal repression being another) why the present leadership in Arab countries is so detested by their own Muslim populations and others of that faith around the world

      Maybe you need to do some more research before posting comments like this. The people in UAE absolutely adore their leaders. Dubai is a paradise on earth.
      Giant party town too. If you want a night of amazing eating and drinking, to pick up gorgeous women from all over the world then

    • Re:Chess, Islam, and Arab governments (Score:5, Informative)

      by Mubarmij ( 176563 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @07:33PM (#9976578)
      I am Muslim, Arab.. and from Dubai, too (:

      Islam does not forbid Chess. If Sistani does not like it, that is his problem. The confusion here stems from the medival era when many people in the Islamic/Arab world were so smitten by Chess that some scholars felt that it was a huge waste of time and said it was "Makrooh" (undesirable). I am not aware of any respected scholar who said it is Haraam (forbidden).

    • > imagine if the American government allowed a $2.6 billion mosque complex to be constructed in the "bible belt"

      Um. How could the American government NOT allow it? Isn't there some cliché about it being a free country? ;)

      Now, if the US Government supported such a project, it might rightly anger some people, just as the National Endowment for the Arts [endow.gov] is frequently criticized for its use of public funds. Governments have to be careful about what they build or support.

      But why should a government s

  • Huh. (Score:3, Informative)

    by c0dedude ( 587568 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:33PM (#9976276)
    On the one hand, it's a city devoted to chess. On the other hand, it's in the UAE, which make it easy to build when you're playing with the oil money that should go back to the people. See here [cia.gov] for the severe lack of democracy source.

  • Tourism (Score:5, Informative)

    by Chazmati ( 214538 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:47PM (#9976341)
    a "64,000 square meter International Chess City" in Dubai, planned to cost US $2.6 billion, which "will feature 32 buildings designed to mirror the image of a traditional black and white game board."

    Wow. Dubai is really ramping up the tourism hooks. I just saw an article in some boating magazine about the man-made islands they're building to increase their shoreline. I found a Google hit here [waltopia.com].

  • A US $2.6 billion "Chess City"? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Writer ( 746272 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @06:59PM (#9976412)
    And you thought Euro Disney was a flop...
  • Hydra vs. Shredder

    Godzilla has been named an alternate, should one of the computers malfunction.

  • $2.6 billion (Score:2, Interesting)

    by drphuck ( 805731 )
    Am I the only one that thinks $2.6 billion could have been spent on something more important then chess? How about the cure for aids or helping starving people? $2.6 billion...I mean wow, those chess board buildings better be made of solid 24 carot gold...

    • Re:$2.6 billion (Score:4, Informative)

      by Trejus ( 87937 ) on Monday August 16, 2004 @09:12AM (#9979472) Homepage

      I have no idea why people keep modding this up. First off, most of the people who are starving in this world are doing so because they live under an oppressive regime that likes it that way. An army lives and dies on it's stomach, along with the fact that giving land to one's cronies helps keep one in power. This is most definetly the case in the Sudan and Zimbabwe.

      It is almost never for the lack of natural resources. Japan has almost none, yet they seem to be eating fine. Thirty years ago, Zimbabwe used to be the bread basket of Africa. Now they starve. Therefore, if you want to help feed the hungry, you have to take out the dictators, and we all know how well that went the last couple times we tried to do that. Plus that costs a whole lot more than 2.6 billion.

      On the other hand, very few of the gulf states have even tried to expand their economy beyond oil. Considering how unstable the region is now, imagine what it would be like when the money and world interest runs out. The world will eventually shift away from Mid-East oil, that is inevitable.

      Considering that, trying to reinvent U.A.E. as a tourist destination is a brilliant move. First it ensures that there will be some positive world attention given to the country. Secondly, it provides a more robust economy. Both are ultimatly good things that will lead to more jobs, which should help starving people feed themselves :)

  • PGN of games 1 and 2 (Score:3, Informative)

    by rayde ( 738949 ) on Sunday August 15, 2004 @11:38PM (#9977604) Homepage
    for those actually interested in the games themselves, here are games 1 and 2 in PGN. You can view them with winboard/xboard [tim-mann.org]. Just paste them into a .pgn file.

    [Event "Match rapid 90 min"]
    [Site "Abu Dhabi"]
    [Date "2004.08.14"]
    [Round "1"]
    [White "Hydra"]
    [Black "Shredder"]
    [Result "1-0"]
    [ECO "B80"]
    [PlyCount "75"]
    [EventDate "2004.??.??"]

    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Be3 e6 7. f3 b5 8. g4 h6
    9. Qd2 Nbd7 10. O-O-O Bb7 11. h4 d5 12. exd5 Nxd5 13. Nxd5 Bxd5 14. Bg2 Ne5 15.
    Qe2 Qa5 16. f4 Qxa2 17. Bxd5 Qa1+ 18. Kd2 Bb4+ 19. c3 Qxb2+ 20. Ke1 Bxc3+ 21.
    Kf1 exd5 22. fxe5 Qb4 23. Bf2 O-O 24. g5 Bxd4 25. Bxd4 h5 26. Kg2 Rac8 27. Rhf1
    Qe7 28. Qxh5 Rc2+ 29. Kg3 Rc6 30. Rd3 a5 31. Rdf3 Re6 32. Rf6 Rxe5 33. Bxe5
    Qxe5+ 34. R6f4 a4 35. Kg2 d4 36. Rxf7 Qd5+ 37. R7f3 Rc8 38. Re1 1-0

    [Event "Match rapid 90 min"]
    [Site "Abu Dhabi"]
    [Date "2004.08.15"]
    [Round "2"]
    [White "Shredder"]
    [Black "Hydra"]
    [Result "0-1"]
    [ECO "B97"]
    [PlyCount "102"]
    [EventDate "2004.??.??"]

    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Qb6 8. Nb3
    Be7 9. Qf3 Nbd7 10. O-O-O Qc7 11. Kb1 b5 12. Bd3 b4 13. Ne2 Bb7 14. Qh3 Nxe4
    15. Bxe7 Kxe7 16. Qh4+ Ndf6 17. Rhe1 h6 18. f5 e5 19. Nf4 Ng5 20. Nh5 Nxh5 21.
    Qxh5 Bxg2 22. Nd2 a5 23. h4 Nh7 24. Qe2 Bc6 25. Rg1 Rhg8 26. Ne4 Bxe4 27. Bxe4
    Rac8 28. Bd3 Qb6 29. Bb5 Nf6 30. Ba4 e4 31. Rde1 Qc5 32. Qa6 d5 33. Rd1 d4 34.
    Bb3 Rc6 35. Qe2 Kf8 36. Ba4 Rd6 37. Qf1 Rd8 38. Qa6 Qc7 39. Qb5 Rh8 40. Qf1 Rh7
    41. Bb3 h5 42. Ba4 e3 43. Qb5 Rh6 44. Rg2 Rd5 45. Qf1 Ng4 46. Bb3 Rd8 47. Ba4
    Rf6 48. Re1 g6 49. Rc1 Rxf5 50. Qe2 Qe7 51. Bb5 Qxh4 0-1
  • Watching a computer beat up another at chess is going to be just as interesting as watching the latest Alien vs Predator movie. If anyone cares to enlighten me on my I should care...
    "If you can't beat your computer at chess, do what I did -- try kick-boxing." --Matt Larson.
    "Chess is a foolish expedient for making idle people believe they are doing something very clever when they are only wasting their time." --George Bernard Shaw.

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