Sims 2 Blocked by CD Copying Software

bairy writes "EA says The Sims 2 will refuse to run if you have Nero, CloneCD or Roxio's EasyCD installed on the same PC. Although they link to a patch to bypass this, a lot of people are upset by this."

This is why I play console games.

[Godeke]

I'm a developer and as such I use some of the more obscure tools: including CloneCD (I have a library of my MSDN subscription CDs imaged on my server, for example). I back up to CD, so I have CD burning software on my machine. This isn't the first game where someone decided they know what is good for my machine better than I do. "You want to *use* your machine: then don't buy our game!" they say. I have learned my lesson: I don't buy your games. How exactly does that help your bottom line?

From the discussion board it appears it took two days for a NoCD crack to become available. How does *that* help your bottom line: you have people returning the game (rightfully so, many will have no clue why you want to cripple the computer just to play a game, even if they know *how* to cripple it) and yet the pirates didn't even skip a beat?

Nothing but bad press and bad customer service. Yes, the consoles are protected, but they are protected in a way that doesn't break the game and doesn't require gutting my machine's functionality to get there.

Why?

[johannesg]

What's the point of not allowing CD emulation? If you have a legal copy of the game I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to play it from an emulated CD, and if you do not have a legal copy the crack will take care of it anyway. So what are they trying to achieve?

Re:This is why I play console games.

[gl4ss]

the only winners are the companies selling this snakeoil(it's snakeoil, since it doesn't really do anything better than the cd checks before it because it got cracked in an instant) to publishing companies.

customer loses and the publisher loses.

What really gets me is this...

[Dark Nexus]

Reading through the posts, I come across a post from someone at EA responsible for the board (or support in general, I'm not sure which), in response to one customer who got so annoyed they returned the game:

There is no conspiracy of silence. I've seen posts from people running Nero and CloneCD who aren't having problems with the game and those that are. We can look into it, but I don't have any answers for you today.

And murronrose, since you returned your game, that means that you are no longer a product-registered owner of the game. Which means you shouldn't even be using this BBS... I'm most likely going to have to remove your posting priveledges if you don't cancel your account yourself.

-MaxoidLucky

Check out The Urbz - Sims in the City
The next great game from Maxis!
http://www.theurbz.com

Absolutely wonderful customer relations... "You have a complaint, so instead of trying to fix the problem and get a few customers back, we're just going to remove you from this board and pretend it never happened."

Re:What really gets me is this...

[Vaevictis666]

Do notice though, that the account was not removed, murronrose and MaxoidLucky got into a dialogue, and murronrose is working at documenting solutions.

State it in the System Requirements

[meanfriend]

If a company wants to take such stupid measures with their games, go ahead, but let me know *before I buy it* so I know which lousy products not to waste my $$ on. With most store policies regarding open box returns (ie. dont even think about it) they owe it to the consumers to notify them if something that has become quite common on modern systems may prevent the game from running.

Don't all games have a little section of the box indicating the system requirements? Like:

1 Ghz CPU
Direct X 9 video card
1.2 GB free Hard Drive Space
NO Installed CD emulation software: (eg: Nero/Alcohol/CloneCD)

If they did something like that, then consumers would have no complaints. Sales may tank, but that should tell them something too...

And no fair adding emulation detection code in a patch like Ubisoft tried with Raven Shield. (It was retracted quickly after a good backlash from the users)

Pffft...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do they even bother anymore... a fully cracked version of Sims 2 was available via torrent before most places had the game in stores. People who WANT to copy the game illegally will do so. The only thing game companies do by adding crappy copy protection is annoy legitimate customers.

Killing PC Games Market

[blueZhift]

This is just lovely! Just another nail in the coffin of PC games. The usual sort of system setup woes are bad enough without the game publisher intentionally causing pain in the name of copy protection. The average user is not going to even try to figure this out, they'll just return the game. And given the large presence of casual gamers in the Sims demographic, that could be a lot of returns.

Yeah, I know most casual gamers probably wouldn't have CD emulation software installed themselves. But a lot of people share the computer with others who might have installed who knows what, especially kids. The Sims 2 scheme is just a recipe for disaster, which still won't stop the real pirates anyway! I won't be buying this for my PC, but I might check out Sims for Xbox which is going for $20 these days and got pretty good reviews.

Re:Why?

[ChaosDiscord]

What's the point of not allowing CD emulation?

The same point as all modern PC game copy protection: to delay access to cracked copies. While emulation has many valid uses, it's likely that most CD emulators are used to play illegal copies of games. Disallowing CD emulation makes it harder, increasing the window where it's easier to buy the game than to get a working illegal copy.

I still think it's scummy (It's not their business what I run on my PC. There are valid uses for such software.), but that's the reasoning. Given the complexity of getting a CD emulator installed and working, I don't think it's worth the work, but that's the state of the world.

Just another example of why copy protection loses

[Stevyn]

This is another example of how copy protection does little to stop piracy, but pisses off honest customers for no reason. I'm sure if a crack isn't already up, it will be soon. It's the same situation with Windows activation. The customers who bought the software honestly deal with the hassles while the people who downloaded it illegally won't have to worry. It's like the audio CDs that restrict use on windows machines, but downloading MP3s lets you do whatever you want. It's like paying for songs off music distribution services gives you a product that is more restrictive than if you went on Kazaa and downloaded it.

One of these companies arguments against piracy is that you get a better experience if you're honest and buy the product. However, for these protection schemes, I fail to see how things are made easier or better.

reminds me of another situation

[bigbigbison]

It is interesting that this situation is similar to the ways that anti-virus and anti-spyware products detect bad stuff. I wonder how long it will be before cd imaging products have to adopt some of the sneakier ways of hiding their presence that spyware and viruses use?

That's BS and you know it

[billybob]

the software isn't blocked by cd burning software... it conflicts with cd emulation software

HA.... you're joking right? You think this isnt intentional on Maxis' behalf?? Give me a break. I can see why they would say it's just a conflict, so they try not to piss as many people off, but it's funny that anyone would actually buy that excuse. It's intentional and you know it. :P

Re:misleading

[ivan256]

it conflicts with cd emulation software

No it doesn't.

It says it conflicts with cd emulation software. It really detects cd emulation software and refuses to run. They try to make it sound like there's an overlap in resource utilization, or an incompatibility of some sort, but it's a lie. They just don't trust you.

Furthermore, disabling the emlation functionality doesn't solve the problem, since they're not actually checking that, they're just checking for the existance of registry keys associated with certain programs. Doom 3 and Thief 3 did the same thing. You have to uninstall it, or the software won't run. In fact, with Doom 3, uninstalling didn't even work if you had a ligitamately registered copy of CloneCD, because it left a registry key behind with your license number, so you had to delete that registry key manually. Or, download the no-CD hack so you don't have to spend ten minutes uninstalling, registry hacking, and rebooting every time you wanted to switch from playing a game to doing something productive.

Re:Why?

[gl4ss]

uh, the window was exactly couple of hours or something along those lines. well, actually the warez version was available WELL BEFORE THE GAME WAS AT RETAILERS, reducing the window to zero. not only that but it would have been for some customers easier to just warez the game than buy it(in which case the whole setup is on it's head already, the "works everywhere" warez version being available *earlier* than the retail version and with *less hassle* - that's just insane of the publisher).

there's no valid _good_ reason.. there's valid reasons to buy this snakeoil(from companies that actively push it to publishers), but they're not good reasons. and now most new computers that come with a cd burner(read: all) have burning software that comes with such emulation so you're automatically asking for trouble, especially with such high visiblity title as sims 2 that will be copied no matter what and be tried by *legimate* customers on wide array of different computers.

(not only that but actually there's a spesific warez release just to be played using virtual drive... )

Maxis Represenative Responds: Fuck Off, Customers.

[EllF]

My goodness. I was reading the BBS for the game, and there is one individual who purchased the Sims, found it to be inoperable on the system that he uses to do photo editing and digital video work, and returned it to the store with an explanation. He then posted, trying to get Maxis to do -something- -- he is apparently a longtime customer as well as a polite, well-spoken fellow.

Here's the Maxis represenative's response: "There is no conspiracy of silence. I've seen posts from people running Nero and CloneCD who aren't having problems with the game and those that are. We can look into it, but I don't have any answers for you today. And murronrose, since you returned your game, that means that you are no longer a product-registered owner of the game. Which means you shouldn't even be using this BBS... I'm most likely going to have to remove your posting priveledges if you don't cancel your account yourself. -MaxoidLucky"

That's unbelievable. You don't threaten your fucking customers when they're justifiably angry because you released a ridiculously broken product. Fuck you, Maxis.

Re:misleading

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

When will companies learn how fucking retarded it is to do something like that? What about the lay-person who likes to game but doesn't know much about the inner workings of the computer? Will they want to uninstall the cd burner software? Call EA support, and bitch at them!

Pissing off your customers is not a sound business model. Its sad when you have to crack a game just to run your legitimate copy.

Re:Maxis Represenative Responds: Fuck Off, Custome

[base3]

I hope for Maxis' sake that this is an overzealous "volunteer" moderator and not an employee. If it's an employee, he should already be looking for a more suitable position for someone so surly--perhaps the parking lot attendant profession.

Brand Name Computers?

[Twintop]

So, if someone buys a computer from Dell/HP/IBM/Gateway/etc. that comes with pre-installed burning software, they can't play? I can see the protests now. The Sims might have been the best selling game ever, but with stupid copy protection B.S. like this, The Sims 2 will be lucky if it is the bestseller of the year.

Boy, this takes me back...

[bluemeep]

There's been worse copy protection schemes. Anybody remember having to type word 36 on page 16 of the manual before being able to start a game? And then discovering your Mom threw it out months ago? Then that bastard Timmy who sat across the lunch table from you wouldn't let you borrow his copy because he was still mad you lost the Victoria's Secret he swiped from his Dad's closet?

Yeah, I hated that.

Re:When will they learn...

[Anonymous Coward]

Negative!

I, for one, refuse to be 'chained' to the internet or have to support a modem to use software that I have legitimately purchased. There are undoubtedly many other people who will refuse to give up their rights to anonymity, or allow access to their computer, for the sake of a copy protection scheme.

Will the parent company be around in a couple years to "Grant" you access to your software when you reinstall? Don't bet on it bud! Will the company "Grant" you access to your software when they have discontinued support for it or it's intended OS? Don't bet on it bud!

Take Microsoft for example: Windows XP and the lovely Windows Product Authorization crap. When Microsoft discontinues support for XP in 2K6, 2K7, whatever... will they still "authorize" your copy of XP when you reinstall? Don't hold your breath, especially if they can sell you (a.k.a. force you to buy) a new OS through deprecation, they'll

Soft protection schemes are NOT the answer.

NO PROTECTION IS the answer.

Lowering ridiculous software prices is the answer.

Cutting out the greedy middle-men (EIDOS, EA, RIAA, MPAA) will lower costs globally. That's the answer.

Greed sure isn't.

Re:misleading

[Anonymous Coward]

Pissing off your customers is not a sound business model. Its sad when you have to crack a game just to run your legitimate copy.

This topic enrages me. As if it weren't aggravating enough to implement software CD-checks that harass paid customers, limit the functionality of their purchased software (e.g., I like to have more than two multiplayer games installed despite having only two CD drives) and force a general technological retrogression (e.g., I'm forced to swap CDs constantly, just like the days of "king's quest iii", only in this case it's completely unnecessary) - now the noncomplying legit users are being forcibly retrogressed.

It's completely sad that software companies are in the regular habit of treating their customers, by default, like untrustworthy scum and criminals. Meanwhile, the untrustworthy scum and criminals are, as ever, having no trouble whatsoever bypassing blacklists and voiding copy protection. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that the warez versions come with the blacklist disabled already, and the only ones being affected are the ones foolish enough to legitimately purchase a cardboard box. Happens frequently.

When I buy a game these days (e.g. "Rainbow Six 3: Raven Shield") only to find that it has a CD-check (possibly with corrupted segments) and a blacklist against other software I have installed, my first and impulse is to return the game to the store. I buy games to act as stress reducers, not inducers.

Might this be illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

The company is intentionally lying to the consumer about why the product refuses to work. Is that legal? It wouldn't be legal for a car manufacturer to tell you your radio is causing a pinging noise, when it's the car's engine, would it?

And could the makers of CloneCD sue them? They are saying that Clone CD conflicts with their software, when it does not. This could affect sales of CloneCD, if in fact CloneCD is a product you can buy.

Re:State it in the System Requirements

[yamla]

If the game refuses to run on your system and you meet the system requirements, return it to the store. The store is required by law to accept it for a full refund as they have sold you goods that are not of merchandisable quality.

That said, I bought the DVD edition of Sims2 and had no problems. I have daemon tools and nero installed.