dory writes "Newsreview has up a story from October on America's Army and the way the military is using it. The piece discusses a clan, the Army's research mentality and implementations, as well as some MRI studies on gamers." From the article: "The Army has been collecting player information in a vast relational database system called "Andromeda," Wardynski said, which recruiters will be able to use to look up a player's statistics if one of them shows up in a recruiting office. A version of America's Army now in development will take that a step further, allowing players to create a "persistent" online alter-ego, one that steadily progresses through the virtual ranks by taking additional training or specialized missions, generating valuable data along the way."
so... do teamkillers get labled as suspected terrorists?
i've passed on this for other fps's.. can you do anything approaching rocket-jumping? spawn-camping? telefragging?
has anyone ever considered that this might be an OUTLET for violent behavior.. that is.. someone who would have been interested to do it for real is satiated by the virtual? "no, sarge, i don't think i want to go out there, i just want to get back home to my videogames."
I don't know, I made a pretty picture out of the bubbled on the voluntary military apptitude test our highschool forced us to take (yes, they forced all seniors through threat of detention, on the second half of a half day to attend this test).
Well I stil got constant calls from recruits, I'm guessing because of my sat scores or whatnot. They continued to mail me, but they did stop calling me after I told the recruiter that "honestly, I really don't like this country very much".
The aptitude tests don't really count for much, I found out. I didn't write anything at all on mine. Just folded it up and made a paper airplane out of it.
my younger brother is 18 and gets a lot of calls, he answers them in much the same manner. i still get them occasionally, and i'm 21. my political beliefs are very similar to his [we're both marxists and lean towards pacifism in our personal lives], but i always tried to be as respectful as possible and explain my position on the issues at hand when they inevitably ask 'why'.
still, each phone call takes about 5 minutes on average, because those buggers are getting pretty desperate.
Yea, I felt the same way at that stage in my life. Oddly enough now that I'm older with 2 kids, I suddenly have very different views. Though oddly enough I really can't figure out how and why my views have changed, guess I just got old:)
When they ask you how much you weigh, tell them you are grossly overweight (regardless of if you are or not.) That seemed to stop them from bugging me for a while (~10 years ago.)
Sargeant (looking around): OK, our last armored truck got creamed by an IED. I need somebody to drive these supplies up to the front in this 72 Buick Regal with "US Army Official Use Only" on it. Any volunteers?
*** silence ***
Sargeant (consluting top line of report containing soldiers ranked lowest to highest by combat aptitude): OK, then, it looks like it'll be you.
I get fragged probably 5 times for every kill I get in most FPS games (Haven't played AA in over a year, though). Why should it get red flagged for bucking the system? Maybe they just plain suck at the game?
Battle School made use of a "mind game", an adventure game designed to analyze the mind of its players. You remember it for the "Giant's Drink", which put the player in an unresolvable situation to force adoption of unconventional strategies. It is a much more appropriate analogy in this case, which uses a an FPS game for a similar purpose, except that the skills developed are pertinent to the front-line grunts rather than their commanders. "Less brains, more action" is the future slogan of the American Army.
'In the wake of 9/11, the public and media reaction was, in the Army's words, "overwhelmingly positive." Salon's Wagner James Au, for example, gushed that the game would help "create the wartime culture that is so desperately needed now" and excitedly anticipated the day when youngsters raised on America's Army would pick up real weapons to cleanse the globe of real terrorists' (emphasis mine.)
I was just pondering the other day what it is our country needs. Education, I thought. Health care, I mused.
Man, was I off! Now I realize that the thing our country needs most is a wartime culture.
Wartime Culture is another way of saying "Clueless sheep who believe that a video game is like real war"
I've never played the game, so I don't know how realistic the game seems. I would think, though, that the game must involve the possibility for your character to be injured or killed. Maybe you're driving along a desert road and BOOM! your up-armored jeep blows up and you die. Or maybe you just get sniped by a camper.
as for making joining the forces a sexy option for the kids, they have definitely done their part. for one, there is no blood in america's army, just like real war. nobody gets dismembered when fragged, and everyone fighting against you is a 'fanatical terrorist who hates america' rather than an enemy soldier ("just doing his job") by default. you don't see babies with bombs strapped to them, nor do you see the weeping families of the innocent deceased crying over them.
I've played the game several times. It is very difficult. It is fast-paced. The game is constantly in flux.
You are assigned to a squad of about four people. Depending on the type of squad, you get different equipment.
If you work together as a team, you survive. If you try to go Rambo, you get killed. If your squads work together, you win quite easily. If the squads want to do their own thing, they can get killed.
it is rather realistic. For instance, if you try to shoot while running, you won't hit the br
The first one I can answer: the penalties for killing or wounding your teammates are actually a significant behavior control. I haven't played in a while, but there are two factors for determining what your role is: your skill and your honor. While honor is the most important (a higher honor lets you choose any role you want on the team), as long as you have the requisite skills (e.g. you are qualified to be a sniper) you can choose what you want.
In Full Spectrum Warrior, another gov't produced video game, if any of your squad members die, you fail the mission and start the mission over or at a save point.
Actually, chances are good that if you get into the army, you'll get a hot chick
Hello there, Mr. Rumsfeld. Welcome to the Internets.
When they add the 'Dear John letter' to the game, you'll have the ability to lose your wife to your best friend who stayed home. You can enjoy having part of your paltry wages garnished to support the child you hardly get to see anymore, if you make it home. Sign me up!!
I'd take a wartime culture over an ignorant culture anyday. If we're gonna get killed or go around killing people, we might as well know why rather than sit around on our asses wondering why some guy in a hole has been hating us for the past few:
years (see : Somalia/Cuba/Central America/Africa) decades (see : Russia/China/Korea/Vietnam/Middle East) centuries (see : France/Germany/England/Europe) millennium(s) (see : Crusades/Promised Land/Muslims/Hebrews/Christians) unknown amounts of time (see : Nati
There's a huge difference between disagreement/displeasure and enough anger to go to war.
Africa - Displeasure about the US not doing enough to fight disease/hunger/internal wars Middle East - Righteous anger about the US alignment with Israel and US foreign policies in the middle east, which has continued to increase and spiral into religious hatred towards the US itself Cuba/Russia/China/N.Korea/Vietnam - hostilitiy of Communism vs Capitalism Europe/Canada - displeasure with the current US administratio
If you go back into the past, the U.S. has been one of the most annoying countries in history for third world countries I would argue historically European countries had far more impact on third world countries. Between the 16th-19th centuries colonization basically tried to divide the world between the European powers. The impact of that time has lasted through even recent times, apartheid in S. Africa, French involvement in Vietnam(French Indochina War), Falkland islands, are all examples. The anger to
We do not have "isolationist policies." We have unilateral, interventionist policies, not isolationist policies You are correct I couldn't think of the exact term. I was thinking more along the lines of isolating us from our allies (though the goverments support us there is a vocal minority against the US that has gained influence, see Spain) because we didn't get the rubber stamp from the ineffective UN. I don't think we differ through the rest, as I said in another post [slashdot.org], most of the world doesn't truly
We have those things (healthcare and education), for the time being. I'm happy to hear that you can afford to lose your job, or quit your job so that you may look for another, without worrying about qualifying for an insurance policy because of a condition which was previously disclosed and covered.
Or maybe you pay for your own insurance? Isn't it great knowing that you don't have to work full-time just to make it worthwhile for your employer to subsidize your healthcare?
So you believe that the appropriate method of securing these things is by government intervention?
No, I don't believe that, although I do see how easy it would be to draw that generalization from my post. My point was that a single-payer system tends to reduce costs.
Work hard. Help yourself. I have done it, people I know have done it. I am no better than anyone else, therefore if I could do it, anyone can. There are no excuses.
I work hard and help myself as well. My parents were not rich, but they had enough money to buy me a used car when I was still in high school. The car more than paid for itself in the money I was able to make working after school hours. I got scholarships, and a subsidized loan from the government. I quintupled my earnings, and paid back the loan with interest.
Now, what if I couldn't get a loan from the government? I had very little money. My parents, through no fault of mine, had declared bankruptcy three times, because they are irresponsible. No one in his right mind would loan them any money, or would allow them to co-sign a loan for me.
Now, what if my parents couldn't afford to buy me a car, or clothing, or food? What if I had to drop out of school so that I could work in order to help my family buy food or rent an apartment?
Or, what about the man I met the other day? He stopped me and asked if he might shine my shoes. I explained that my shoes did not need shining and tried to walk away. He asked again, and before I could say no again, he explained his situation: he was a recent parolee who regretted the mistakes he made in his life and was trying to raise his sister since his mother's recent death. He can't get a job because no one will hire him because he committed a crime. Shining strangers' shoes will only get him so far. How should he help himself?
You may not be better than anyone else, but you were likely better off than a great many people. Did you have at least one parent or relative to care for you? Did you have anyone that cared about you at all? Were you born physically or mentally challenged? Maybe you are a little bit luckier than you thought.
No, I don't believe that, although I do see how easy it would be to draw that generalization from my post. My point was that a single-payer system tends to reduce costs.
I don't believe this. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?
How does a single payer system reduce health care costs?
First, and foremost, a single payer system reduces health care costs by reducing administrative costs. Administrative costs vary greatly in our current multi-payer system. The publicly administered sector is by far the most efficient, despite the common misperception that it is least efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administra
I know several people who worked on America's Army, and I found the article very thought-provoking. But when I see the overweight, Frito-eating guys at the local online-game center playing AA or HL2, I don't see how the Army is going to make these...men...into soldiers. There is a big difference between pressing a mouse button to kill a virtual terrorist and humping an 80-pound pack for two weeks only to get a fleeting shot at the enemy now and then. Let's be honest here, most of the soldiers of tomorrow are playing on the football fields when they are 14 and 15.
But when I see the overweight, Frito-eating guys at the local online-game center playing AA or HL2, I don't see how the Army is going to make these...men...into soldiers.
By the time honored method of military training: having a DI scream in their face.
HARTMAN: Quickly! Get your fat ass over there, Private Pyle! Oh, that's right, Private Pyle... don't make any fucking effort to get to the top of the fucking obstacle! If God wanted you up there He would have miracled your ass up there by now, wouldn't He?
PYLE: Sir, yes, sir!
HARTMAN: Get your fat ass up there, Pyle!
PYLE: Sir, yes, sir!
HARTMAN: What the hell is the matter with you anyway? I'll bet you if there was some pussy up there on top of that obstacle you could get up there! Couldn't you?!
If you are a good shot, and are able to think clearly when bullets are flying, you are an excellent candidate. The military has physical training programs (coupled with a carefully controlled diet, and psychological/emotional framework built into the training regimen) that can turn a fat, out-of-shape twenty-something man into a perfect cannon-fodder/drone/soldier.
And if someone is over the threshold (100 pounds overweight? 200 pound overweight? who knows?) maybe they can use gastric-bypass surgery a
Agreed. Well said. However, the body can be conditioned much easier than the mind. It's the attitude that usually accompanies the Frito eating that worries me. Does Joe Carbo-cruncher care enough about anything besides his personal gratification to be a good soldier?
Being successful in the U.S. military requires a commitment to a set of values, among them selfless-service, honor, and personal courage. The Army is not a mercenary organization looking for cold-blooded privateers... at least, not yet.
It's called the Service for a reason. I doubt a game could ever capture what that really means.
Now that would be a great game, and is the kind of thing that games should aim for. I think it would be a tremendous achievement if a game required a commitment to a set of values. Because computer games indicate what you "should" do by rewarding you though it's hard to get away from motivating people to gratify themselves. I think the form itself is at odds with selflessness. OTOH I've never designed a game
I'm going to log in tonight and shoot everything that moves (friendly soldiers, women, children). If they send me off to Iraq I'll be sure to have the database data at my court martial.
Let's say I was playing in another country? Will they send me citizenship papers along with my recruit forms. If not, I'm moving to canada before I download and play this game (or at least that's what I'll be putting as my address)
"who hasn't seen one of these games--known as first-person shooters--here's the gist of them. You're placed in a combat zone, armed with a weapon of your choice, and sent out to find and kill other players. Knife them, club them, blow them apart with a shotgun, set them afire, vaporize them with a shoulder-launched missile, drill them through the head with a sniper rifle--the choice is yours. Depending on the game, blood will spray, mist or spout. Sometimes your kills collapse in crumpled heaps, clutching t
Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
so... do teamkillers get labled as suspected terrorists?
i've passed on this for other fps's.. can you do anything approaching rocket-jumping? spawn-camping? telefragging?
has anyone ever considered that this might be an OUTLET for violent behavior.. that is.. someone who would have been interested to do it for real is satiated by the virtual? "no, sarge, i don't think i want to go out there, i just want to get back home to my videogames."
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
Well I stil got constant calls from recruits, I'm guessing because of my sat scores or whatnot. They continued to mail me, but they did stop calling me after I told the recruiter that "honestly, I really don't like this country very much".
Disclaimer, this was 8 year
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2, Funny)
They said I would be perfect for the Air Force.
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:1)
still, each phone call takes about 5 minutes on average, because those buggers are getting pretty desperate.
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
*** silence ***
Sargeant (consluting top line of report containing soldiers ranked lowest to highest by combat aptitude): OK, then, it looks like it'll be you.
Re:Advice to 17 and 18 year olds (Score:2)
My friend Ender... (Score:4, Funny)
More like the other game in the book (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
This is awesome! (Score:2)
Re:This is awesome! (Score:1)
t3rr0r1st5 got p0wnz0r3d!!11!!!!
Wartime Culture (Score:5, Insightful)
'In the wake of 9/11, the public and media reaction was, in the Army's words, "overwhelmingly positive." Salon's Wagner James Au, for example, gushed that the game would help "create the wartime culture that is so desperately needed now" and excitedly anticipated the day when youngsters raised on America's Army would pick up real weapons to cleanse the globe of real terrorists' (emphasis mine.)
I was just pondering the other day what it is our country needs. Education, I thought. Health care, I mused.
Man, was I off! Now I realize that the thing our country needs most is a wartime culture.
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:1, Troll)
Wartime Culture is another way of saying "Clueless sheep who believe that a video game is like real war", or "cannon fodder".
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never played the game, so I don't know how realistic the game seems. I would think, though, that the game must involve the possibility for your character to be injured or killed. Maybe you're driving along a desert road and BOOM! your up-armored jeep blows up and you die. Or maybe you just get sniped by a camper.
And people are going to want to sign up for real?
If I were making a game to recrui
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
you know what they say: war is heaven
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
You are assigned to a squad of about four people. Depending on the type of squad, you get different equipment.
If you work together as a team, you survive. If you try to go Rambo, you get killed. If your squads work together, you win quite easily. If the squads want to do their own thing, they can get killed.
it is rather realistic. For instance, if you try to shoot while running, you won't hit the br
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
Wow! It's more realistic than I thought!
I must admit, though, that the physics you describe do sound rather cool.
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
The first one I can answer: the penalties for killing or wounding your teammates are actually a significant behavior control. I haven't played in a while, but there are two factors for determining what your role is: your skill and your honor. While honor is the most important (a higher honor lets you choose any role you want on the team), as long as you have the requisite skills (e.g. you are qualified to be a sniper) you can choose what you want.
The goal is to improve you
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
No one is allowed to die.
Yes, these are absolutely designed to recruit.
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:3, Funny)
Hello there, Mr. Rumsfeld. Welcome to the Internets.
When they add the 'Dear John letter' to the game, you'll have the ability to lose your wife to your best friend who stayed home. You can enjoy having part of your paltry wages garnished to support the child you hardly get to see anymore, if you make it home. Sign me up!!
Ignorant culture vs. wartime culture? (Score:2)
years (see : Somalia/Cuba/Central America/Africa)
decades (see : Russia/China/Korea/Vietnam/Middle East)
centuries (see : France/Germany/England/Europe)
millennium(s) (see : Crusades/Promised Land/Muslims/Hebrews/Christians)
unknown amounts of time (see : Nati
Re:Ignorant culture vs. wartime culture? (Score:2)
Africa - Displeasure about the US not doing enough to fight disease/hunger/internal wars
Middle East - Righteous anger about the US alignment with Israel and US foreign policies in the middle east, which has continued to increase and spiral into religious hatred towards the US itself
Cuba/Russia/China/N.Korea/Vietnam - hostilitiy of Communism vs Capitalism
Europe/Canada - displeasure with the current US administratio
Re:Ignorant culture vs. wartime culture? (Score:2)
I would argue historically European countries had far more impact on third world countries. Between the 16th-19th centuries colonization basically tried to divide the world between the European powers. The impact of that time has lasted through even recent times, apartheid in S. Africa, French involvement in Vietnam(French Indochina War), Falkland islands, are all examples.
The anger to
Re:Ignorant culture vs. wartime culture? (Score:2)
You are correct I couldn't think of the exact term. I was thinking more along the lines of isolating us from our allies (though the goverments support us there is a vocal minority against the US that has gained influence, see Spain) because we didn't get the rubber stamp from the ineffective UN.
I don't think we differ through the rest, as I said in another post [slashdot.org], most of the world doesn't truly
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:1)
Or maybe you pay for your own insurance? Isn't it great knowing that you don't have to work full-time just to make it worthwhile for your employer to subsidize your healthcare?
I'm also glad to hear that your f
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:5, Insightful)
No, I don't believe that, although I do see how easy it would be to draw that generalization from my post. My point was that a single-payer system tends to reduce costs.
Work hard. Help yourself. I have done it, people I know have done it. I am no better than anyone else, therefore if I could do it, anyone can. There are no excuses.
I work hard and help myself as well. My parents were not rich, but they had enough money to buy me a used car when I was still in high school. The car more than paid for itself in the money I was able to make working after school hours. I got scholarships, and a subsidized loan from the government. I quintupled my earnings, and paid back the loan with interest.
Now, what if I couldn't get a loan from the government? I had very little money. My parents, through no fault of mine, had declared bankruptcy three times, because they are irresponsible. No one in his right mind would loan them any money, or would allow them to co-sign a loan for me.
Now, what if my parents couldn't afford to buy me a car, or clothing, or food? What if I had to drop out of school so that I could work in order to help my family buy food or rent an apartment?
Or, what about the man I met the other day? He stopped me and asked if he might shine my shoes. I explained that my shoes did not need shining and tried to walk away. He asked again, and before I could say no again, he explained his situation: he was a recent parolee who regretted the mistakes he made in his life and was trying to raise his sister since his mother's recent death. He can't get a job because no one will hire him because he committed a crime. Shining strangers' shoes will only get him so far. How should he help himself?
You may not be better than anyone else, but you were likely better off than a great many people. Did you have at least one parent or relative to care for you? Did you have anyone that cared about you at all? Were you born physically or mentally challenged? Maybe you are a little bit luckier than you thought.
Parent
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
I've noticed a lot of affluent first-worlders need to believe they're solely responsible for their own materalistic success.
How does that line in the song go
"You know where it ends, yo, it usually depends on where you start"
What It's Like ~ Everlast
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Backstage/16 8 7/wil.html [geocities.com]
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
I don't believe this. Do you have any evidence for this assertion?
Re:Wartime Culture (Score:2)
Of course!
From: http://cthealth.server101.com/single_payer_soluti o n.htm/ [server101.com]
---
How does a single payer system reduce health care costs?
First, and foremost, a single payer system reduces health care costs by reducing administrative costs. Administrative costs vary greatly in our current multi-payer system. The publicly administered sector is by far the most efficient, despite the common misperception that it is least efficient. Medicare spends 3% on administra
This was the plot of... (Score:5, Funny)
Does the DoD now get *all* of their ideas from Hollywood?
Re:This was the plot of... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:This was the plot of... (Score:2)
I can see it now... (Score:2, Funny)
How does this translate to the real battlefield? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:2)
By the time honored method of military training: having a DI scream in their face.
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:2, Funny)
PYLE: Sir, yes, sir!
HARTMAN: Get your fat ass up there, Pyle!
PYLE: Sir, yes, sir!
HARTMAN: What the hell is the matter with you anyway? I'll bet you if there was some pussy up there on top of that obstacle you could get up there! Couldn't you?!
PYLE: S
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:2)
And if someone is over the threshold (100 pounds overweight? 200 pound overweight? who knows?) maybe they can use gastric-bypass surgery a
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:2)
Being successful in the U.S. military requires a commitment to a set of values, among them selfless-service, honor, and personal courage. The Army is not a mercenary organization looking for cold-blooded privateers... at least, not yet.
It's ca
Re:How does this translate to the real battlefield (Score:2)
Now that would be a great game, and is the kind of thing that games should aim for. I think it would be a tremendous achievement if a game required a commitment to a set of values. Because computer games indicate what you "should" do by rewarding you though it's hard to get away from motivating people to gratify themselves. I think the form itself is at odds with selflessness. OTOH I've never designed a game
Great defense. (Score:1)
Hypothetical (Score:1)
Re:Completely unrelated question (Score:3, Insightful)
Obligatory Simpsons Quote... (Score:2, Funny)
Your job will be to build and maintain these robots."
Always make FPS gamers look like psychopaths (Score:2)