Getting the Girl

1up.com has a great article up entitled Getting The Girl. Zoe Flower discusses female gaming stereotypes, the role of women in gaming, and the mythical "girl formula" for gaming success. From the article: "Lara Croft continues to personify an ongoing culture clash over gender, sexuality, empowerment, and objectification. It was while standing in my first-ever ladies' room line at E3 2004 as I pondered the Playboy bunnies, the return of Leisure Suit Larry, and the slew of buxom virtual ladies headlining each booth that I questioned whether the industry had evolved at all."

Re:Sheesh

[cgranade]

RTFA. This article challenges the perception that women are the only ones stereotyped against, as well as that the portrayal of women in games must be inherently anti-feminist. Playboy: Mansion's lead designer is a woman. Moreover, she is pregnant with twins.

Re:How quaint

[Staos]

That's her real name. Her parents were hippies.

I'm being completely serious here. She used to write a collumn for OPM, and she wrote about her name once.

Zoe's website

[khasim]

http://zoeflower.1up.com/ [1up.com]

Cute.

Wanna get the girl??? (in real life???)

[vudufixit]

Then... Don't be a nice guy. I don't mean be a jerk or an a-hole, just don't go out of your way to be nice to a woman. Don't put her up on a pedestal. Don't be anxious to call back (hint: if they really like you a lot, they'll wonder what's going on and call you). I've read a lot of material on what women like and what they don't like - looks help, but true self-confidence is the true attractant. Fellas, I'm no prize in the looks dept, but when I was a 16 yr old pimply virgin, if I went back in time and showed pix of some of the women I've dated/slept with, I wouldn't have believed it. It was just a matter of knowing myself better and becoming more confident. There's someone for everyone, guys. It's a numbers game - don't settle.

Re:Zoe's website

[Anonymous Coward]

And videos [zoeflower.com] too!

Re:Why should it evolve?

[canfirman]

Ms. Flower is trying to manufacture a double standard where none exists

I disagree. There is a double standard: it's ok for men to be objectified because nobody complains, but it's "wrong" for women to be objectified. And it's not limited to gaming. All forms of media (TV, magazines, books, billboards, etc.) have both sexes objectified, but you hear more complaints about scantily-clad women than bare chested men. I wonder if Ms. Flower has read any romance novels or seen any romatic movies and if she's offended by the objectification of the sexes there - especially the "handsome, tall, muscular" man.

The objectification of the sexes to show the "perfect" model is everywhere. Every sane person knows that it does not represent the population at large.

Re:How quaint

[Anonymous Coward]

she was one time co host of "electric playground"

she owned a gaming cafe.

she does another show called hardcore candy, about women in extreme sports.

she is tall, gorgeous, a sweetheart, and married.

i worked for the company that produced electric playground. her cafe was 6 doors over from our studio. she was in our offices all the time.

Re:Sheesh

[brkello]

hahaha, ok, so much wrong with this. So what if she is a woman...so what if she has twins. Just because she finds it acceptable to portray women that way, doesn't mean that women in general can't object to the way they are depicted. The fact that she is a woman and is pregnant with twins is irrelevant to everything. It's good you RTFA, but C(omprehending)TFA is important too. It's like that skit on the Chapelle Show. He plays a blind black man who is a member of the KKK and a white supremicist. Just because he is black, doesn't mean white supremacy is ok.

Re:Target Audience

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you cite any recent advertising for cars or toothpaste that actually use large breasts as a sales tactic?

Big breasted maybe or maybe not (I honestly don't recall the following examples' breasts, though they were both hot). I recall some Ford or such truck commercial with a hot short-shorted, scantily-clad woman crying about some silly thing or another (the crying was at the very end of the commercial). I don't recall breasts, but she was definitely using her sex appeal to sell. Additionally, there's a Crest commercial (IIRC) that uses a hot, scantily-clad CSI chick to hawk their wares. Also definitely using sex appeal to boost attention to their wares. Again, I don't recall the breasts, but I seem to vaguely be aware of them not being small on CSI.

There you go: cars and toothpaste, though no hooters... :)

Re:No mention of HL2?

[FortranDragon]

Another one would be Cate Archer from the No One Lives Forever series. The character's looks were based on the real life model Mitzi Martin.

Re:Target Audience

[wisdom_brewing]

ok, im not female but ive done quite a bit of research in the field, odd as that is

little statistics coursework on female views on the male form, turns out that its also a good way to meet girls :) had a questionaire-type thing associating females views of the "perfect" male and female bodies using magazine covers for examples.

girls tend to like the bodies of guys on the fron of 'mens health' or 'mens fitness' as opposed to 'muscle and fitness' or 'extreme body' type mags. "swimmers body" is the most often heard expression, watch the olympics, youll get the idea.

though as with most things views vary, some of the girls with the most typical views of a female body had extreme views on men.

there are women out there who find "big violent muscley type" men most attractive, though they are few and far between. most women are put off by it.

another survery (carried out on a decent sized sample, not resticted to a sample of a few hundred like mine) found that womens and mens views on muscle varied by about 5-10kg (11-22 pounds). that is, a man thought he looked best with 5-10kg more muscle than a woman thought he looked ideal with. slight simplification.

but yeh...

Re:I bet "girl games" would have girls on them too

[caranha]

You know, this is indeed true.

In Japan, there is this series, Tokimeki Memorial,
where you play a guy who, in one school year, must
make one of the girls of his social circle fall in
love with him. It was a hugely suscessfull game,
with 3 continuations.

A few years ago, they released "Tokimeki Memorial:
Girls Side", where the roles were reversed. The character was a girl, and had to have one of the boys in her social circle fall for her.

And, unlike the other games, in this game the same-sex characters played a huge part, while in
the "male" games, the male characters had pretty minor roles.

People need to stop crying and get in shape.

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it humorous how limp wristed some people are. They want to act without regard to consequence.

I hate to break it to you like this but I'm going to anyway:

People are not meant to be fat and out of shape. If you let yourself get that way from years of inactivity and eating junk food, then expect people to look down on you for being that way. Cry as much as you want about fixation on looks but the truth remains that being in shape is a *good thing*.

Cause...effect.... Eat crap, don't take care of yourself- expect to be fat, ugly, and frowned upon. Eat quality food, take care of yourself- expect people to notice your good health and physique.

The most vocal people who are offended and complain about good looking girls in magazines are those who want to eat shit and STILL feel good about it. The world doesn't work that way.

I disagree.

[i41Overlord]

This is an example of political correctness stifling scientific understanding. Over the years people have been taught to despise and shoot down any stereotype, even if that stereotype has a basis in truth. Remember, not ALL stereotypes are bad or offensive.

What the original poster said is true. The brains of men and women are specialized for different functions. It has been proven numerous times that men are more optimized at visual spatial skills while women have inherent advantages in verbal and organizational skills.

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?l an guage=english&type=24119&article_id=218391881&cat= 1_1

And as far as black people having more fast twitch musle fibers, that's not entirely accurate but there is some truth behind the story. It's not all black people, but specifically people who evolved in the Western Africa region do have a higher percentage of quick twitch muscle fibers and a higher testosterone level than those elsewhere in the world. They have a distinct advantage in anaerobic performance such as sprinting, and the records over the years spell it out clearly. Don't confuse this with "all" black people, because those who evolved in Eastern Africa, notably the high altitude region between Kenya and Ethiopia have almost the complete opposite evolutionary specialization. Not surprisingly, from evolving in a high altitude region, they have a larger lung capacity and better cardiovascular system (more red blood cells) than those who evolved at lower altitudes. They excel at aerobic activities such as long distance running.

http://www.africana.com/articles/daily/index_200 11 106.asp

In the examples I gave above, look at the records. You have a huge pool of competitors from all over the globe yet people from a small area seem to win a *huge* proportion of events that *far* exceeds the percentage that a random group of people should win. I mean just take a look at the Boston Marathon. Kenya is not exactly the most populous country on Earth, but look at the results from the last 20 years when they started competing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_winners_of_ th e_Boston_Marathon

This is not a racist or sexist discussion, this is a discussion of the realities of evolution and the differences that we live with. It's not a reason to hate, it's a reason to understand.

I am not racist or sexist, I'm just not an ultra left-wing PC Nazi or an ultra right-wing Bible thumper. I'm just a regular guy who would like to throw the racism and sexism out the window and find out the *real* underlying causes, even if they are taboo to talk about. I'm firm believer in evolution and I believe that many of the differences you see in races/the sexes is due to evolving in different areas or doing different tasks.

Re:What about the studly men!?

[Catnapster]

All the gamer-girls I know love Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7.

This guy doesn't even exist and he gets more chicks than I do. Fuck Sephiroth.

Re:Evolved?

[SuiteSisterMary]

Tomb Raider was originally supposed to feature an Indiana Jones type male lead. The main programmer, however, decided that if he was going to spend a year staring at an ass, it might as well be an attractive female ass.

Hence, Lara Croft.