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All Games Banned From MO Prisons 280

Posted by Zonk from the no-tetris-for-you-criminal-types dept.
A while back we mentioned that Missouri pulled violent games from prisons on the basis that hardened criminals shouldn't be practicing their sharpshooting technique. Now, the new governor has removed all video games from the MO prison system. From the AP story: "Blunt, a Republican who took office two weeks ago, called video games 'a luxury that inmates should not be allowed to enjoy.'"
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All Games Banned From MO Prisons

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  • To be blunt about this. (Score:5, Funny)

    by AtariAmarok ( 451306 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:48PM (#11470416)
    "Blunt, a Republican..."

    Looking for a new bill co-signed by State Legislator Doobie.

  • Give Inmates Skills (Score:5, Insightful)

    by __aaitqo8496 ( 231556 ) * on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:49PM (#11470437) Journal
    While I understand that inmates deserve some rights (despite their lack of liberty), I think this is a step in the right directions. Let's try actually _educating_ those that need it. Without video games and TV, maybe inmates will have to resort to... reading. If you haven't graduated high school, I think that a program to help you earn your GED would be particularly helpful.

    Instead of encouraging the downward spiral of crime, let's give people skills to use if they wish to fix their ways.

    • Re:Give Inmates Skills (Score:4, Funny)

      by __aaitqo8496 ( 231556 ) * on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:58PM (#11470562) Journal
      "You know, like nunchuck skills, bowhunting skills, computer hacking skills."

      Sorry, read my title and couldn't resist the Napoleon Dynamite reference
    • Said inmates could just as easily resort to developing further the skills that got them in there in the first place. Illiteracy rates in prison are, what, 5x those of the general population?
    • I agree with you, inmates in prison should spend their time reading books instead of watching TV, playing video games or spending way, way too much time lifting weights on sitting doing nothing in their cells. BUT, education isn't 100% the solution either. You'd be hard-pressed to find teachers willing to educate inmates (read : high paying salaries) and chances are most of them won't go along with the program (read : destroyed books and supplies). It COULD work but on a macro level (state or nationwide), i

      • Re:Learning is expensive (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Ayaress ( 662020 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:21PM (#11470870) Journal
        Learning is pretty cheap. My school district uses more uncertified teachers than certified. Their average salary is $22,000 a year, and each one either teaches an average of 35 students all subjects (elementary school), or around 350 students one subject (middle/high school).

        Each student costs the district around $4000, however, most of this is textbooks, which are purchased at worse prices than prescription drugs, and are replaced far more often than they need it (Except for the computer books, which hadn't been replaced since 1985 when I graduated), and various other supplies (Science classes are most expensive, math and literiture following close behind due to calculators and additional books).

        However, most of this can be cut out. Hard science? Drop it, it's expensive or because it could give convicts access to chemicals they could use as drugs (or worse, not use as drugs but try anyway) if that's the kind of politician you are. Math? Cut most of that, and teach them a business math class. They'll find far more use for it anyway. Literiture? Screw it, stick some books in the library and if they want to read, have at it.

        Limit the classes to basic skills: Language, business math, computer use, communication. It's not a well rounded education, but it will give them a good shot at a far better life than most of them were in that got them in prison to begin with.

        As for books, don't burn $200 per student on new books every year. Get throwaways from the local high school or university, and stock the library out of the public library's anual $1 book sale. By limiting the class offering to the above, most of those books will be good for as long as they last, and shouldn't need constant updating.

        Learning's only expensive for students because they're taught just about everything, so they can do just about everything. Convicts are another matter. Just the fact that they're convicts alone is going to severely limit their job options, regardless of how they are personally. What they need is a targeted education with a narrow set of useful skills that will let them get decent jobs and even continue their education after they're released.
        • Learning is pretty cheap. My school district uses more uncertified teachers than certified. Their average salary is $22,000 a year, and each one either teaches an average of 35 students all subjects (elementary school), or around 350 students one subject (middle/high school).

          Now find one willing to work for 22k teaching inmates instead of kids.

          Although, in some parts, the inmates would be safer than the kids, since the inmates are less likely to be packing guns...

          • Did I mention I live in Saginaw? The prison out by the airport has a lower rate of violence than the schools. When I was in 8th grade, Heritage High School was closed for two weeks due to riot damage.
        • Literiture? Screw it [..]

          You should be hired as an editor for Slashdot.

        • Re:Learning is expensive (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Short Circuit ( 52384 ) * <mikemol@gmail.com> on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:52PM (#11471262) Homepage Journal
          Have you looked at textbooks recently? They're stuffed with photos licensed from third parties. And with every copy of the book sold goes a royalty to the owner of the photo.

          My Political Science 110 textbook costs more than $90, and it's got more page surface covered with photos than with text.

        • Re:Learning is expensive (Score:3, Interesting)

          by miu ( 626917 )
          As for books, don't burn $200 per student on new books every year. Get throwaways from the local high school or university, and stock the library out of the public library's anual $1 book sale. By limiting the class offering to the above, most of those books will be good for as long as they last, and shouldn't need constant updating.

          The only problem I have with that is that the book sale method would not allow standardized curricula. It's possible that locally printed digital textbooks could be used to

          • So? I just want them to know how to think and work a good job. Standardize curricula has only one advantage: you can give standard tests and then compare results. So long as the books are not wrong, I don't care. I'm not going to be looking at their grades. In the real world the only ones who hire them will be watching closely to see results, so grades won't matter much to them either.

            • The reason that standardized curricula are important is because such a system is likely to have high staff turnover. If the material is standardized then turnover will not cause as much disruption.
          • If you're aiming to give them a high-school level education anyways, what's the point of textbooks? I never used a textbook in highschool (nor did we ever get any, except for novels in English). In case some of you are too old to know, high-school curriculums are largely made up by the school district nowadays anyways. The teachers come up with their own lesson plans, and write up their own homework assignments (they claim that the textbook problems are "too easy"). The notes taken in class (which are u
            • Is that usual now? I had textbooks 1-12 and thought that was still the standard practice. I'd be interested to know if that is a result of new ideas in how people learn or a simple cost cutting measure.

    • Re:Give Inmates Skills (Score:2, Insightful)

      by OAB_X ( 818333 )

      Without video games and TV, maybe inmates will have to resort to... reading.

      To this example, one of the greatest short story writers of all time, O. Henry was imrpisoned, he read almost constantly. I dont think that a video games in prison will help develop the next O. Henry, unless you count memorizing the books of text in Morrowind to be reading.

      • They can start with ABC's for Barbarians and then work their way up to the more in-depth books like the Sermons of Vivec. It could be a truly educational experience... right?

    • Re:Give Inmates Skills (Score:5, Insightful)

      by orangesquid ( 79734 ) <orangesquid@nOspaM.yahoo.com> on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:00PM (#11470596) Homepage Journal
      I've never seen why jails aren't more like boarding school with therapy centers for the /really/ messed up people.

      If someone's parents fail to raise them well, or someone's environment shapes them poorly, or someone suffers through tragic events and doesn't learn to cope, their condition is not their fault (although their actions are), but, the condition can be reversed, and the actions can't.

      This whole concept of "adult time-out" is stupid. Turning 18 doesn't(shouldn't) change "getting grounded" from lasting a few days or hours to lasting months to years to decades.
      • My father used to work as a prison therapist when he and my mother were short on cash. The pay was bad, and the experience was worse. He said he came home mentally weary and strung out every day after being in that place.

        The prison system needs to be reformed completely. No small step like putting more therapists in the prisons will do it.
      • I've never seen why jails aren't more like boarding school with therapy centers for the /really/ messed up people.

        I'll tell you why.

        If somebody stabs one of my beloved relatives in a parking ramp, I want the bastard thrown into a dark and dingy hole with nothing to do but regret the miserable course his life has followed, and I don't want him let out any time soon, no matter how much his attitude seems to improve. I don't care who's "fault" it is that they became a total screw-up who can't function in
        • I have an alternative: smoke it with them.
        • This is the core of opposition to the current prison system. You aren't interested in justice or health or the benefit of society - you want revenge. There are a lot of people who believe that your reasons for wanting that are harmful and that it's not a good way to run a society.

          And, as you have no doubt noticed, I have to largely agree. Relatives of a victim are the last people we should be listening to, because they are the least likely to think clearly or rationally about anything. You see this all the

      • Well, this is easier said than done. You can try to do therapy with somebody, however it will have an effect if and only if he/she wants to change. Otherwise it is a waste of time and money.

        Most people are in prisons not because they want, but because they were forcibly locked up there by state. That is not very conducive to rehabilitation programs, such activities are usually used only as an opportunity to get out of the cell.

        IMHO, many people that are sent to prisons and other correctional facilities

      • I've never seen why jails aren't more like boarding school with therapy centers for the /really/ messed up people.

        Well, unfortunately many of the people in prisons don't want to be treated like they've been sent to a boarding school to learn how to make their life better.

        If they don't participate in your programs, they're meaningless.

        Obviously, we need to do more than just warehouse these people as cheaply as possible. But forcing them to participate (or worse, naively assuming they will) isn't really

      • Re:Give Inmates Skills (Score:3, Insightful)

        by damiam ( 409504 )
        I've never seen why jails aren't more like boarding school with therapy centers for the /really/ messed up people.

        Because boarding schools are expensive.

    • Dude, I know it's ultra-cynical, but Machiavellianism tells me a government should not be educating people who will most likely be inclined to criticize and even try to overthrow it.

      The American revolution happened only because educated and highly eloquent people wrote and spoke openly against the British Crown, seeking at first only redress of grievances, not seeking independence until it was painfully obvious that the British monarchy wanted to retain complete power.

      • Call me what you will, but somehow I doubt that most prison inmates are there because of activities and thoughts against the prevailing political order.

        The American revolution revolved around taxation without representation, and several related issues; many others have come about to deal with issues ranging from democratic representation and freedom from oppression to economic injustice, what have you.

        While I'm sure there are people incarcerated in American jails because of conscious activities against un
    • There isn't much of a point in educating those people, considering that you can't even get a job at McDonalds with a felony conviction on your record. Absolutely no one wants to hire people who have a criminal record, so about the only thing the criminals have left is a life of crime. I find it amazing that the rate of recidivism is only 70% or so. Maybe we just aren't able to catch the other 30%.
      • Does the military still have the program where at conviction a perosn can instead decide to serve in the military instead of in a prison?

        I know they had it in the Vietnam era, one of my teachers fixed his life around by joining the military.

        I think this program shoudl be reinstituted. The grand majority of people who come out of the military say it was a good experience for them and for many of them it turned their lives around.

        I'm not saying to use the military as an inmate daycare program. But for thos
        • Now obviously you would have certain convictions where this wouldnt be allowed, such as murder and other violent crimes,

          I agree with your comment completely, but it is rather odd that you would suggest that violent people have no place in the military...after all, violence is what they do.

          • I just thought it not smart to give people convicted of violent crimes assault machine guns which could be turned on our own troops.

            But does anyone know if any policy like this is sitll in place?
            • Well, the French Foreign Legion is still out there. Does that count?

              Seriously, though. No, no such programs exist, largely because the militery's standards are high enough that most "common criminals" wouldn't qualify. Someone mentioned convists studying for a GED. If you need a GED, you're not qualified to be in the US Army.

              As to "assault machine guns" (whatever they are), one must keep in mind that the average soldier has very limited access to military weapons - they're stored in an Armory, and iss

              • The military needs to rethink its standards, the guard and reserve for the first time in years missed their recrutment levels by a lot. (cnn or time article sorry I cant cite it.)

                It would be smart to give the GED training while in the military. Just as soldiers can earn college credits while serving.
    • And while you're at it, why not actually educate the youth and make sure that they have the proper skills to be "productive members of society" and don't land in jail in the first place.

      And I mean more than just reading, wrting and arithmetic. Bring back some of the tech and trade skills to school. Shop: Auto, wood, metal. "home ec" can lead to a succesfull career as a chef, baker, etc. Of course, offer programming classes and other high tech fields should be offered at some level.

      Offer classes wh

    • If you haven't graduated high school, I think that a program to help you earn your GED would be particularly helpful.

      And also cost-effective in terms of running the prison. Inmates in classes or doing homework are too busy to cause trouble, which means you can get by with fewer guards.

      The problem is that any program that make incarceration less unpleasant arouses a kneejerk Don't-Coddle-The-Criminals backlash. I don't know about Missouri, but my own state (California) has slashed spending on educational

    • While teaching the disadvantaged is attractive, not everyone who commits crime does so out of necessity.

      Many criminals are simply predators who view law-abiding citizens are their rightful prey. Short of unconstitutional mind-altering, they're going to leave prison with exactly the same view. Trainging will help nothing. Vidgames will make the incarceration easier to bear (boredom is the punishment), and may hone skills.

    • Great just what we need, to educate these criminals so they can be more devious when they get out of jail. Educating criminals will just make better criminals. They need to stand in the corner and stare at the wall until they are sufficiently rehabilitated.

      That arguement was just as stupid as the one where criminals learn sharpshooting from video games. I cannot remember the last person killed while the shooter had an XBox controller in their hand. Guns don't require a difficult skill set to learn, otherwi
    • hehheh - or another look on it, make everything boring enough and you'll have to start taking drugs to pass the time. yes, drugs in prison are common.

      videogames would probably have been quite a cheap way to keep the guys in there occupied with something non lethal. hell, maybe have them compete in halo or something... give them some substance to life beyond just buttfucking and taking smuggled dope.

      but the us prison system in all it's size seems more to be made for comforting the victims outside rather th

  • Political motivation? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by (trb001) ( 224998 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:51PM (#11470465) Homepage
    Blunt, a Republican...

    Was it really necessary or worthwhile to label him a Republican in the AP article? I'm not necessarily saying there's an obvious bias, but would the author have included this statement had he been a Democrat? Politics have nothing to do with this story at all.

    --trb
    • but would the author have included this statement had he been a Democrat?

      Yes. The news services almost always mention the political party when they talk about a politician. I don't know why, but I see it all the time.
    • From the article: "Now, the new governor has removed all video games from the MO prison system. From the AP story: "Blunt, a Republican who took office"

      How can a story about a politician doing something in office fit with your statement "Politics have nothing to do with this story at all" ? If this story has nothing to do with politics, then no story does. Let us next go to the dictionary definition of politics: "The art or science of government or governing". Hmmm. Do you think that prison policy by the

      • Let me clarify my complaint...this story has nothing to do with party affiliation, unless the AP is trying to draw your attention to the fact a Republican is removing violent video games from an institution, which would be my contention.

        --trb
        • Here's my take:

          Republicans tend to take the view that prisoners need to be punished.

          Democrats tend to take the view that prisoners can be rehabilitated.

          This dichotomy exists outisde prison as well. For instance, look at how the Republicans "reformed" welfare, and look at how the Democrats built it in the first place.
    • It's commonplace for AP articles to distinguish political affiliation for anyone in elected office when referring to him or her.

      The exceptions usually being President and VP.

      So, no, there's no backhanded motivation in including this in the AP article. Whether or not it should be including the /. summary is a valid concern though.
      • I'm not too worried about the Slashdot summary, it was taken directly from the story. While you say it's commonplace for the AP articles to distinguish party affiliation, note how often they do it for Republicans and not Democrats...it might surprise you.

        --trb
        • Dear Lord, are you saying there's a bias in whether or not a person is labelled with his or her political party in the Associated Press?

          You might want to get your tin-foil hat resized at a local haberdashery.

    • Party affiliation is always relevant. It should be mentioned in every article that mentions a politician. It's a great way for everyone to learn how the political parties differ in real life as opposed to how they differ in advertising and marketing.

  • Future EA Employees? (Score:5, Funny)

    by michael path ( 94586 ) * on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:52PM (#11470488) Homepage Journal
    From TFA:

    In prison, inmates should "pick up skills and abilities that will allow them to go back out into society and be productive citizens," Blunt said. "Playing video games doesn't have anything to do with either of those objectives."

    Are you kidding? Confined to constricted areas for entire years. Limited interpersonal action creating a sociopath. Far, far too much free time on their hands. Die hard video game players. Always ready to take it up the butt.

    This is where Electronic Arts needs to recruit new talent.

  • Hardly a punishment. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Japong ( 793982 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:54PM (#11470511)

    They shouldn't have their games banned, they should just get specially made versions of the games already out there.

    Is there really anything more punitive than waiting in line for World of Warcraft? Having a queue system that's been modified so that you'll join the server... in 10-20 years? After which you'll time out and have to rejoing WoW 2. Give them all 28.8 modems to play CS:Source with. Ball mice. Nokia N-gages (the side-talkin' versions). The entire Deer Hunter collection.

    Those suckers will crack within days!

  • What a travesty.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by keiferb ( 267153 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:56PM (#11470538) Homepage
    They presumably did something quite naughty, so they're now being punished. When I was little, my mom would take away my Atari 2600 if I was bad. What do you want to bet that some of these people didn't even -have- video games until they got to prison?

    Bleh.

  • Good (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @01:56PM (#11470539)
    A while back we mentioned that Missouri pulled violent games from prisons on the basis that hardened criminals shouldn't be practicing their sharpshooting technique.

    Yes, because pushing a button on a gamepad trains you to handle a real gun more effectively, right? Especially since games offer such realistic bullet physics, right?

    Now, the new governor has removed all video games from the MO prison system. From the AP story: "Blunt, a Republican who took office two weeks ago, called video games 'a luxury that inmates should not be allowed to enjoy.'"

    I don't see this as bad at all. They're in prison for a reason. Why should the tax payers be footing the bill for this?
    • I'd rather an inmate being playing a game that raping other ones. It's just something to keep them busy that doesn't involve sex or weightlifting.
    • I don't see this as bad at all. They're in prison for a reason. Why should the tax payers be footing the bill for this?

      RTFA. The inmates paid for the system and the games (it was bought on profits from the prison commissary).
      • Any profits should go back to the taxpayers and not to the inmates who have no rights.
        • Any profits should go back to the taxpayers

          If people like you weren't so stupid, they would probably realize that if the inmates can't play video games or watch TV they will spend their time starting gang fights, riots, and so on. This situation would require hiring many more guards and building bigger and more secure prisons. Guards and prisons are a hell of a lot more expensive than Xboxes, and their cost comes out of my pockets. If anything, providing video games to inmates is an example of good f
          • Wow you make it sound like you go to jail because your unlucky...no you go to jail for making bad descisions in life. Those bad descisions should not give you the right to sit around playing video games and freeloading off society. They should be made to work and work hard to rehabilitate themselves. Not play video games. They shouldn't be allowed to watch TV in my opinion.

            The jails worked before TV and video games and it can work now without it.
            • You really need to improve your reading comprehension skills. I made the following points:

              - Things like TV and videogames are means of control. With such enormous inmate populations, US prisons would be hard-pressed to do without them.
              - Due to flaws in the US legal system, a significant percentage of inmates in US prisons should have never been sent there.

              Do you disagree with my first point or my second point?

  • Sour grapes. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Xaroth ( 67516 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:12PM (#11470746) Homepage
    Really, Blunt just kept getting his ass handed to him in Counterstrike by the inmates.

  • Rehabilitataion vs. Punishment (Score:5, Insightful)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) * on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:20PM (#11470854) Homepage
    Quoth Blunt:

    Our penitentiaries are punitive institutions where those who have committed crimes against society are sent to pay for their actions.

    Whatever happened to rehabilitation? When did we become a nation that values vindication over elevation?

    Video games could be used as a reward--stay on good behavior, complete a VoTech course, get gaming privs. They could be a useful tool; they're something an inmate desires, so make it something they strive to get.

    But no. First things first: punish the criminal. After all, if we give 'em reasons to be happy or comfortable, they won't be suffering for their crimes--and that's what matters. Make 'em pay.

    Heck, why not just turn all 5+ year prison terms into life sentences? All a long prison sentence does for most people these days is make 'em even worse than they were when they went in. It's not like our "tough on crime" policies are designed to make them better people while they're on the inside...

    • Heck, why not just turn all 5+ year prison terms into life sentences?

      Or amend our constitution so we can just torture and kill them without appeal. Why bugger around?
    • Whatever happened to rehabilitation? When did we become a nation that values vindication over elevation?

      Imprisonment, fines, confiscation, execution, exile, torture, humiliation, enslavement, and all other forms of social revenge were the traditional means by which society has enforced its will. The concept of rehabilitation is a fairly new addition to the punishment aspect of prison. I believe it is a useful addition, but it is secondary.

      I'm sure someone in this thread will try to use reductio ad abs

    • Actually, we've only been a rehabilitation interested country for a short while. Rehabilitation, that is, in the sense of rebuilding the person and the belief values. James Johnston (San Quentin, Folsom, Alcatraz Warden) became noted because he didn't believe in chain gangs. Rather, he implemented work duty where prisoners were rewarded for their efforts. He began in 1913, but didn't gain real noteriety until 1933, when Alcatraz opened.

      Before prisons (outside of the US.. our first prison was built in

  • Gaming is not a right (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shodson ( 179450 ) on Tuesday January 25, 2005 @02:24PM (#11470902) Homepage
    Gaming is not a right, it's a privilege, one of which you should lose when you break the law. I don't see how video games help rehabilitate an inmate, unless they give them computers to learn how to build their own video games...

  • When ignorance of sociology, human nature, gaming and their benefits added together meet with the idiocy of bureaucracy, you get a prison in a USA state.

    Death penalty is probably more efficient to fight crime and violence than plonking an inmate for 8h in front of Mario Bros. I wonder if it's also less expensive than running a few computers in a room.

  • I consider video games, most television, gym equipment, and other "stuff" found in today's prisons to be luxuries. We should be spending our tax money on books, teachers, and other resources that give prisonors a chance at a better life. Should they choose not to take advantage of it, their failure is through no fault but their own.
  • Theoretically, such as Wild Divine [wilddivine.com]. Learning self knowledge and control could be an enormous benefit.
  • They shoudnt have had the games in the first place. Its a damned prison!

    They should be doing time, not playing games, watching tv, or whatever on MY dime. Its bad enough that we have to feed and house them.

    They convicted felons, not some homeless guy that cant find a job.

    If they want 'nice things' that some people cant even afford, then they can stay out of prison. Its their CHOICE to be in there.

  • ... Keeping a prison running smoothly is incredibly hard. Why, they can't even keep drugs out of prisons! The argument has been made in the past that prisoners should not get cable television as well.

    Guess what folks? Entertained prisoners are less likely to riot and less likely to stick you with a shiv. Prisoners cost $30K a year for us to house, and that's not counting the medical costs when Joe gets shivved in the nutsuck by Malcolm.

    It's simple cost-benefit analysis. If you want to spend more money, go ahead, but our prison system is already doomed for failure. At our current rate of increase of incarceration, 50% of americans will be in prison by the time we reach retirement. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Something is going to break before then. (Hopefully the drug laws.)

    But these people calling for mandatory 5 year sentences for any felony? Hate to break it to you, but if you've downloaded an mp3, you've committed a felony. Just about anything can be considered a felony. Steal a mailbox? Felony. Anyone saying someone deserves 5 yrs in prison for stealing a mailbox, at a cost to taxpayers of $150,000 (not counting court and legal costs), should be incarcerated themselves for being a fucking kneejerk dolt.

    And america has the highest incarceration rate of any nation in the country. We are the LEAST FREE country on the planet. Prisons are not solving out problems, and turning them into gulags isn't going to help anything either. Grow the fuck up.

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