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It's funny. Laugh. Businesses Nintendo Entertainment Games

Nintendo DS Wireless in Freefall 202

Posted by timothy from the that's-pretty-normal dept.
Nicholas Roussos writes "Wired reports about four skydivers who decided to give the Nintendo DS wireless capabilities a try while they were freefalling. 'The four sky divers proved that an ad hoc network set up using the wireless functions of a Nintendo DS works perfectly at distances of nearly 400 feet while falling 120 miles an hour,' states the article."
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Nintendo DS Wireless in Freefall More

Nintendo DS Wireless in Freefall

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  • Boring... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:38PM (#12342537)
    were part of an experiment this month to discover the outer limits of the wireless capabilities of the DS
    Wow, amazing, so you mean that all that wind doesn't mess the signal up? But seriously, I think that if you got a few people with a couple of two-seater ultralights it might be slightly cooler. Well ok maybe not.

    I'll tell you what would be cool, ultralights with automatic paintball guns, heat seeking nerf missiles, and a HUD. Then have a dogfight, and when Mr. Farmer comes out of his house yelling at you for scaring the bejesus out of his livestock you make a second pass, *thunk* *thunk* *thunk* *thunk*

    Wait, what was this article about again?

  • Einstein would be pleased (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SiliconEntity ( 448450 ) * on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:39PM (#12342543)
    In this year of the Einstein centenary, these skydivers have managed to rediscover the Principle of Relativity - that it matters not how fast you are moving, the laws of physics are the same. Indeed, if radio waves failed to propagate for skydivers the entire structure of physics would have to be re-created from scratch.
    • Damn, there goes that "I'm sorry officer, but the kids in the back seat were driving me nuts with that video game thingy, so I just put it to the floor," excuse for that speeding ticket.

      KFG

    • Galileo would be pleased.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by rufusdufus ( 450462 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @08:06PM (#12342788)
      The skydivers experience is consistent with Galilean relativity, Einstein's special relativity wouldnt have much of an effect in this situation.

      • Here comes the science (Score:4, Informative)

        by sunami ( 751539 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @09:10PM (#12343343)
        I hate to break it to you guys, but so long as the people are moving at the same velocity, there isn't any kind of problem. If all of them had been moving at .999 speed of light (in our point of view), there still wouldn't be a difference, because they are all in the same frame of reference, and they would all measure the speed of light from their point of view to be 3.0x10^8 ms^-1. No doppler effect of the radio waves would be created, and no greater time lag would ensue. It's as if they aren't moving, because according to each other, they aren't!
        • That's actually the point of Einstein's special relativity [wikipedia.org]: "Overturning the old absolutist views of Aristotle, it held that motion, or at least uniform motion in a straight line, only had meaning relative to something else, and that there was no absolute reference frame by which all things could be measured."

          It also relates to Galilean relativity [wikipedia.org]: "Another way of formulating the observation that there is no phenomenon in dynamics that will allow an observer to establish a zero point of uniform velocity, i
        • If all of them had been moving at .999 speed of light (in our point of view), there still wouldn't be a difference

          Well, there might have been; some lower frequencies of external source could have been shifted up into a wavelength that would have interfered with their wireless, or sunlight from behind them may have shifted downwards.

          Also, light from in front of them may have shifted into gamma rays or higher and killed them before they managed to get to level 2.
        • 1.001 times the speed of light. Then the radio signal'd get funky.

          Of course, I think they'd have bigger problems at that point. Like stopping. :)

      • Re:Galileo would be pleased.. (Score:5, Informative)

        by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @09:17PM (#12343401) Journal
        Not the theories of Relativity, the Principle. There is a difference. Einstein's theories of Relativity solved an increasingly important conflict between physicists beliefs that the Principle of Relativity was true (an intuitive belief) and their inability to put solid math around the way the Universe works.

        The first chapter of this work [mathpages.com] should help. Basically, the principle of relativity is that physics is the same for all inertial reference frames; Einstien put that together with the fact that light appears to travel the same speed for all observers. Galilean relativity doesn't work with that; it has other contradictions inherent in it (it can't answer the Zeno paradox, again, see the linked work), but it takes longer to notice. There are other relativity theories that haven't panned out, either.

        Pardon the pedantry, it's intended to be educational.

    • Not... really (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gotr00t ( 563828 )
      That's only the first part of Einstein's postulates. The other one states that there is a fundamental constant that is absolute for every frame: C, the speed of light. The radio waves that these skydivers were using for their wi-fi connection are EM waves, propagating at speed C.

      It is not surprising that their wireless worked in the least, as to be able to detect any relativistic effect, their frame, determined by gamma=(1-v^2/c^2)^(-1/2) would have to be close to or greater than 1. That would be darn clo

    • Not so. Could just be a doppler shift that causes it issues.
    • "In this year of the Einstein centenary, these skydivers have managed to rediscover the Principle of Relativity -"

      I have a question: If the skydivers were travelling near the speed of light, would this still have worked? (note: Ignore the detail that they'd punch a Wile E. Coyote-esque hole into the planet.)

      • Re:Einstein would be pleased (Score:4, Informative)

        by Rasta Prefect ( 250915 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @10:53PM (#12344195)

        I have a question: If the skydivers were travelling near the speed of light, would this still have worked? (note: Ignore the detail that they'd punch a Wile E. Coyote-esque hole into the planet.)

        Yes. Thats the whole point of relativity. Its just as valid to say that they're still and that the earth is moving near C towards them, in which case why wouldn't it work?

        • "... in which case why wouldn't it work?"

          Well, let's say you were moving at 5mph below c. Relatively speaking, wouldn't that mean that the radio signal would only be moving 5mph towards the other guy? If not, wouldn't that imply that the speed of light isn't the limit that RF can travel?
          • "Well, let's say you were moving at 5mph below c. Relatively speaking, wouldn't that mean that the radio signal would only be moving 5mph towards the other guy? If not, wouldn't that imply that the speed of light isn't the limit that RF can travel?"

            This is where relativity comes in. The RF signals are traveling at C relative to the transmitter. If the transmitters are moving at C - 5 MPH, then the radio waves are moving at 2C-5 MPH.

            Get it?

            • This is where relativity comes in. The RF signals are traveling at C relative to the transmitter. If the transmitters are moving at C - 5 MPH, then the radio waves are moving at 2C-5 MPH.

              Wrong, actually.

              Under Galilean Relativity, you would be correct. this isn't usually what people mean when they talk about relativity. The problem facing physics at the end of the 20th century was that we had two really great systems for describing reality - Newtonian mechanics with constant unchanging distances and

          • This is what is supposed to happen. As an observer approaches the speed of light, time becomes distorted for the observer to allow the light to travel at the same relative velocity to him. To other people who are motionless (for argument's sake) they would see the light act the way you describe-as if it were catching up to him at a rate of 5MPH.

          • There are a lot of people answering you, and only a few know what the hell they are taking about. Two simple things to remember;

            Electromagnetic radiation in a vacum travels at 1.8026175 × 10^12 furlongs per fortnight, always.

            Time is not the same for everyone, and bends to make the above possible.

  • excitement! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    nintendo ds, cause falling 120miles/h towards the ground isent exciteing enough.

  • Please turn off your electronic equipment... (Score:5, Funny)

    by FuryG3 ( 113706 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:40PM (#12342556)
    So now when they kick you and your friends off the plane for using wifi while in flight, you'll be all good.

  • Why should it not work? (Score:5, Funny)

    by imsabbel ( 611519 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#12342560)
    I mean, there is no/little relative velocity, and radio waves are fast (plus there is no ether :D).

    As to the whole thing... I really dont know. Its cool, but it sounds like a real potential for darwin awards ("damn, ill get you. Just a nother round..." *splash*)

  • The Video (Score:5, Informative)

    by bscience ( 797617 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#12342561)
    There is a torrent serving up the video of the PSP and Nintendo DS tests here:

    http://stashbox.fromtheshadows.tv/ [fromtheshadows.tv]

    or the actual torrent:

    http://torrents.fromtheshadows.tv/fts_box1.0.avi.t orrent [fromtheshadows.tv]

  • Good to read..... (Score:5, Funny)

    by wpiman ( 739077 ) * on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#12342564)
    It is good to read about some real world applications with todays technology. Usually these articles are so theoretical....

  • This is really cool... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Smiffa2001 ( 823436 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#12342565)
    ...though I'd really hate to try it. I get sucked into "the zone" when gaming and computing so tend to ignore most outside stimuli (feel free to correct spelling, etc.). Hope that my parachute would be automatically opening, otherwise...

    • Re:This is really cool... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well if it does open automatically and you're not paying attention, I would image that while YOU might slow down, the Gameboy wouldn't (well unless it has a little parachute of its own, or you have a really good grip).

  • So? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Locke2005 ( 849178 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:41PM (#12342566)
    1) Wow. Line-of-sight is line-of-site!
    2) If all 4 of them are falling in the same direction at the same speed, than their velocity is irrelevant; their relative velocity is zero.
    3) What networked games can you actually finish within the 60 seconds before you hit the ground?

    • Solexo-diving... (Score:4, Funny)

      by Dark Coder ( 66759 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @09:02PM (#12343277)
      If four skydivers were in space (exo-solar-diving) free-falling from Jupiter toward the Sun with an intent to drop into Earth after a few braking maneuvers (what a rush! Oh wait, you'd barely feel the solar wind, uh?).

      So, once again if four sport-extremists were sol-exo-diving, would that 20 K-mile/per second put a dent in your line-of-sight RF communication channel?

      Yes...barely I leave you to do the math.

      (plus, then, no one can hear you scream in space)
    • "3) What networked games can you actually finish within the 60 seconds before you hit the ground?"

      Pilot Wings!

    • Re:So? (Score:2)

      by oGMo ( 379 )
      What networked games can you actually finish within the 60 seconds before you hit the ground?

      The entire library of networked DS games. And you'd still have time for 59 seconds of pictochat.

    • What networked games can you actually finish within the 60 seconds before you hit the ground?


      Paratrooper multiplayer

  • An EM Signal at 120MPH? (Score:5, Funny)

    by ColdZero ( 668801 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:42PM (#12342567)
    At speeds like that, how could the speed of light even hope to keep up?

  • SPLAT (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:42PM (#12342575)
    Dude, I fragged you!
    No, dude. I fragged you first!
    No Way! I fragged you first.

    SPLAT!

  • What about different speeds? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Kainaw ( 676073 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:43PM (#12342577) Homepage Journal
    If they are all travelling at the same speed - so what? What if one was still and the other was travelling at 400mph? Could they still communicate? I know, they would be too far apart if the moving one went in a straight line. But, what if it went back and forth? The issue is the simple doppler effect. At what point is it unable to handle wireless communications?

    I only ask because I feel that we will eventually have wireless transmitters in all cars to monitor traffic and assist in directing traffic away from congested areas. At what speed do cars lose effective communication with stationary antennas? Cell phones seem to work just fine at 100mph+
    • The doppler shift varies relative to the speed of light. So the short answer is that you'd have to be moving VERY fast before the frequency would be shifted enough so that the two devices could no longer communicate. The real issue behind wireless communication at speed is that you will quickly travel outside of the functional range of the device. Cell phones have solved this problem by having many cell towers and a means of handing off transmission between them.

      Reference link [fourmilab.ch]on the Doppler Shift for

    • Cell phones seem to work just fine at 100mph+

      As radio communications with Apollo seemed to work just fine at relative speeds of about 25,000 mph. As others have noted EMR is really, really fast and doppler shift is relative to that speed.

      In any case they have invented these things called "variable resistors" that can be used to make a simple circuit popularly refered to as a "tuner." They gone even further and created circuits that automatically seek and lock onto a signal, popularly known as "scanners."
      • The Apollo ground stations had phase-lock loop receivers that could compensate for doppler. Doppler measurements were used as part of the range and range-rate system that was used to determine the spacecraft's position and velocity.

    • Re:What about different speeds? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Grond ( 15515 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @08:34PM (#12343037) Homepage
      So I looked up the relativistic Doppler effect [wikipedia.org] and plugged in some numbers.

      For a relative velocity of 400mph you get an observed frequency of 2.39999856GHz.

      Now, looking at the 802.11b spec available at the 802 working group site [ieee.org] I see that it operates in the 2.4 - 2.4835GHz range.

      So the Doppler effect at 400mph introduces a difference in frequency equal to .0017% of the total frequency range. Unfortunately, I don't know what the tolerances for 802.11b are, but I have difficulty believing that .0017% would cause much trouble.

      Now, backfiguring for a more common 5% tolerance, we get something like 500,000m/s or 1.1 million mph. So, yes, 802.11b probably won't work between passing spaceships. Aside from that, we're probably safe.

      • They are all moving at the same speed..so the relative velocity of the skydivers is 0. How much dopper effect shift does that produce? :D
      • Of course, for 802.11b to work between passing spaceships, they'd need to be within 100m of each other.

        I'm not sure that at those speeds (remember, we're talking _relative_ speeds here) I want two space ships to be within 100m of each other.

        Of course, they could be using those Pringles cans for extending their range ....
      • I beg to differ... as one approaches the 'c', the RF will encounter extreme relativity and each transceiver will form its own VERY parabolic shockwave.

        Thus each daring sky-diver will no longer overlap each other's receiver. One would have to alternatively take turn drag-braking into each other's RF parabolic range to conduct a simplex conversation.

        Why bother going back to C.B. radio? Use a tachyon transceiver instead.
  • Things should work fine as long as the relative speed differences don't get too high (of course, you'd then have a distance problem pretty fast).
    My reall worry would be paying too much attention to the game, and not enough to your altitude...
    Ha! I've got a bead on you you .....

    splat!

  • Cool. (Score:3, Funny)

    by JackAxe ( 689361 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:43PM (#12342579)
    I won't personally be trying this with my DS anytime soon. If I wanted to pee, besides in my pants while playing my DS, I'll just do it in the bathroom.

  • Good thing they didn't use the PSP... (Score:5, Funny)

    by solowCX ( 796423 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:44PM (#12342590) Homepage
    They might have hit the ground before they booted up the game and loaded the level. ;)
  • it was raining PSPs and Nintendos the other night. These guys should do a better job of holding onto them.

  • Gotta Get that High Score (Score:5, Funny)

    by StarWreck ( 695075 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:46PM (#12342607) Homepage Journal
    Jimmy! PULL THE STRING!!
    *waves hand* Just a second man
    For the love of god! Deploy your parachute!
    I just gotta get the high score, I'm almost there. *SPLAT*
    • Actually, it's more like this:

      Mike: "Jimmy! Pull your rip cord!"

      Jimmy: "WHAT?" (staring at the screen)

      Mike: "For the love of god..." (starts writing on the screen)

      Jimmy: "Oh, that, right."

  • Uhhh... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Sheepdot ( 211478 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:46PM (#12342610) Journal
    Reminds me of a bash.org IRC quote:

    Zanthis(ALE): AFK, tornado

    Has a whole other meaning in this context.

  • Now, I can sleep (Score:3, Funny)

    by ip_freely_2000 ( 577249 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:46PM (#12342611)
    "The four sky divers proved that an ad hoc network set up using the wireless functions of a Nintendo DS works perfectly at distances of nearly 400 feet while falling 120 miles an hour"

    I'm glad they proved it, it was really keeping me up at night.

  • One Lines (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Hopefully this encourages people to toss their X-boxen out the window.

    Wonder if they were going to simulate tetris...falling out of the sky and all.

    Does this somehow change the definition of "dropped packets?"

    If someone skydove with airsnort to packet-sniff, does that count as a flying pig?

    That's what I call hardware acceleration!

  • stylus (Score:3, Funny)

    by muel ( 132794 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:51PM (#12342647)
    The Nintendo DS is already a hassle to control with two hands while on the ground - how the heck did these guys keep their styluses steady mid-descent?

  • Of course, a suitable title supporting 16 is needed.
    8 obviously could be done today.

    Hedley

  • OH CRAP, I DROPPED IT!! (Score:3, Funny)

    by AvantLegion ( 595806 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @07:56PM (#12342690) Journal
    Oh how cute, we put a mini-parachute on it too! Whew!

  • Yeah... (Score:5, Funny)

    by l00sr ( 266426 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @08:01PM (#12342735)
    I get pretty bored skydiving too.
  • Gotta love Nintendo. I supposed they will now *require* video game companies to test their new multiplayer games by having testers jump out of airplanes. God knows testing this stuff on the ground can be a major pain in the butt.

    Unfortunately, video game companies don't pay testers enough to go splat if the parachute doesn't open. I'm sure EA will find a way around that problem.

  • Physics/Math test (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday April 25, 2005 @08:03PM (#12342755)
    1) If Bob is in the baggage car of a train traveling north at 90MPH and Margaret is standing still 10 cars north of Bob, each car being approximately 40 feet long, home much time would pass before Bob crashes into Margaret? Show your work.

    2) If I put two chickens in a bag and give you the bag, how many chickens do you have?

    3) If radio waves from a Nintendo DS travel at roughly 186,000 miles per second, how fast would two parallel trains moving in the same direction have to travel before the conductor in each train could no longer receive signals from the other conductor's Nintendo DS?

    4) If you were in a car travelling at the speed of light and you flashed your high-beams, would anything happen? Assume you're on the New Jersey Turnpike.

    • In a world where "in Soviet Russia" and "one step, followed by a blank step, followed by profit" is funny, that was actually funny. Thanks for that.
  • "The crew was so caught up in their activity and forgot to pull their ripcords, their wives will be suing Nintendo for not posting a 'warning do not get caught up playing DS whilst plummeting to the earth' sticker on the side of the module"
  • Four skydivers perished when they all failed to open their shutes. Videotape suggests they were all too busy playing Super Mario to notice how close they were to the ground.

    All four Nintendo DS games survived the impact and were still wirelessly networked when the recovery team arrived. Final game results were not available at press time.
  • And I thought I had it bad when I drop one in the living room.

    Thank you everybody, enjoy the veal.

  • Philosophical question... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Pinkoir ( 666130 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @08:51PM (#12343189)
    Do you really have a network when all nodes got just got dropped?

    Hur hur hur...

    -Pinkoir

  • Last Words (Score:4, Funny)

    by 955301 ( 209856 ) on Monday April 25, 2005 @09:10PM (#12343337) Journal
    Skydiver 1: Is it working?

    Skydiver 2: What?

    Skydiver 3: He said, IS IT WORKING?

    Skydiver 4: Mine is up!

    Skydiver 1: Okay, so is mine now.

    Skydiver 2: What?

    Skydiver 3: HE SAID, HIS IS WORKING NOW!

    Skydiver 2: OKAY THANKS!

    Skydiver 4: Start the game already.

    Skydiver 2: What?

    Skydiver 1: Okay Cool, I can see everybody!

    Skydiver 3: .... I feel like I forgot something... my charger .... or ....

    WHUMP!!

  • Mixed bag (Score:3, Funny)

    by rinkjustice ( 24156 ) <rinkjustice@NO_S ... m ['roc' in gap]> on Monday April 25, 2005 @09:46PM (#12343613) Homepage Journal
    The good news was the four skydivers proved that an ad hoc wireless network using the Nintendo DS works perfectly at distances of 400 feet while falling 120 miles an hour...

    The bad news is neither the Nintendo DS or the four skydivers bounce very well.

    Meh. Batting .500 ain't bad.
  • of the stylus = ?
  • ... I really wanted to "follow the money". I mean, why would you buy a jump and then fart around with games - I'd want to enjoy the ride.

    So, from the article: "The stunt was coordinated by Los Angeles filmmaker John Hering, who was shooting material for his series of internet-only videos"

    Ok, if you are into skydiving, AND, someone else (I assume) PAYS for it, the only catch is to do as directed (and, oh, yeah, you will be in a MOVIE! Yippie).

    Anyhow, do you think the "models, locations, and products re

  • On the bright side, at least they didn't crash.

    m-
  • I guess you'd have to call it war-diving.
  • Is this what the new Gravity games will hold? Extreme Geek Diving? Who can beat the first level of Doom III before going splat?

    Are these Uber-Geeks?
  • Where is the interesting technical or scientific news in that story? Didn't they know that electromagnetic waves travel at light speed and that there is no such thing as an "ether"?
  • When I first read the title of this article, I thought they were referring to sales figures or their market share. I figured the PSP would do at least a little better, but that line seems harsh.

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