Nintendo Revolution Details Emerge 581
Pyrohazard writes "Nintendo has posted some details on the Revolution to their official site, finally giving us some insight into what the console will be like. From the site: 'It will be about the thickness of three standard DVD cases and only slightly longer.' This makes it the smallest Nintendo console yet! It will also be able to stand up, similar to the PS2, and the Xbox 360. It will be backwards compatible, and it will also play '12cm optical disks in the same self-loading media drive'. It also states that it will have a very quick start-up time, and be very quiet. It finishes by stating 'Get ready for the Nintendo Revolution in 2006!'" C|Net has an article up arguing that Nintendo is making an error in missing the 2005 Holiday season.
Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Are they making an error ?, possibly but depsite selling less consoles than sony and about the same as MS, the gamecube was supposedly very profitable. THe margins were supposedly higher and nintendo reckoned that the gamecube was never sold at a loss despite its low price.
In short Nintendo don't neccesarily have to shift more consoles than Sony and MS to stay in the console game.
Missing holiday season that bad? (Score:4, Insightful)
Then there's the games/items that come out in say, January, and do well. This strategy has served Blizzard very well with their "ship when its done". In some ways, Summer is actually a better launch date (kids getting out of school) and using that as a steady segway into greater sales.
Of course, this is just my opinion - I could be wrong.
Re:A revolution too late I'd say (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
dvd drive? (Score:0, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:3, Insightful)
On the one hand it seems silly not to include it, on the other you have sony pushing bluray, DVD might not be much of a feature in 2 or 3 years time.
Re:A revolution too late I'd say (Score:4, Insightful)
If this is designed correctly you could make convection currents work for you and turn the whole room into your air space.
Aside from that it does sound like the big N is going for user experience inplace of raw power. Lets assume that it is a small cute box that will provide maybe twice the performance of the current GameCube (unlike the order of magnitude promised by the xbox 360 and PS3), can be sold at rock bottom prices, say $150, on launch day and acts as a centeral hub for mad multiplayer DS parties.
I'd say thats a winner.
I'm glad at least one of the companies "get it" (Score:5, Insightful)
Out of step... (Score:5, Insightful)
There's also the aesthetic angle. Cultural preferences are rapidly moving toward Nintendos form factor and will be peaking in 18 months, not 6.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
DVD? Honestly, who cares? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, nowadays DVD is so common that CompUSA is selling DVD players for $15 [compusa.com].
So, why would I care about DVD functionality? To save $15 off the game console? Woot.
Now, if it had something else, like PVR to DVD-R functionality, that would be a value-add worth considering, but basic DVD playing... nah.
Real Innovation == focus (Score:5, Insightful)
The CNet article... (Score:3, Insightful)
Early launch may not help (Score:4, Insightful)
The Xbox 360 will also have to compete with people's willingness to wait for the PS3 and Nintendo Revolution. This may or may not be a factor depending on what Sony and Nintendo can deliver next week at E3. Remember, an early lauch didn't help Sega much with the Dreamcast (or the Saturn, which they forcefully lauched a few months early in the US to get a headstart on the PS).
If you also consider that the Xbox's life span was relatively very short compared to other consoles (launch 18 months after the PS2, and lauches ~12 months before the PS3). Many consumers that are not hardcore gamers, esp ones that have bought an XB in the last year or two, may feel perturbed that their recent purchase is already obsolete. To compound that, MS (as well as Sony/Nintendo) have to compete with other hot gadgets like the iPod that weren't around during previous console lauches that may appeal more to their core market(young-male adults) than gaming consoles.
Sorta old news (Score:3, Insightful)
There's some interesting, but not ground breaking stuff that has been confirmed, like wireless controllers, DS connectivity, 802.11 internet connection, and free online gameplay, but the really interesting stuff is still just speculation. For what it's worth, my guess is that the "revolution" part of the console will be that the controllers have built in gyros. I've been playing WarioWare: Twisted since it hit the streets in Japan, and let me tell you what anyone who has played that title can tell confirm: twisting is the future. There's a great part of WW:T where you get to play the original Super Mario Brothers game by turning the Game Boy to the side to move forward while the world spins around under your feet. It's how the game was meant to be played!! I suppose the Nintendo critics will call a motion sensor a gimmick, but I really believe it has the ability to put some fire under the industry's feet.
Of course, there's a lot of other speculation that I'm not too sure about. Broken Saints claims that the Revolution will somehow display real 3-D on your TV screen, I guess using special glasses or something. That sounds unlikely to me. I've also heard that the Revolution will have a DS like touch screen controller or one that is somehow reprogrammable by the game, but I don't want to think about the ergonomics of that all. Pressure sensitive buttons does sound like a good idea, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that.
One interesting thing about Nintendo versus Microsoft is the different things that people focus on in their announcements. With the Xbox 360, everyone is talking about the 3.whatever GHz PPC chip. With the Revolution, everyone is talking about possible changes to the way games are traditionally played. It just goes to show the Microsoft is still more interested in the technology side of things, and Nintendo is more interested in the "innovation" (or, if you believe the detractors, "gimmickry") side.
Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)
What I like about Nintendo... (Score:5, Insightful)
They've been saying how they realized that the look of the console matters. Hopefully this means they've grasped the larger concept that *image matters*, perhaps as much as everything else put together (they can have the best games out there, but if it's seen as an uncool thing to own, people won't own it*). However, from the rather narrow stuff I've heard from them (only talking about making it look physically better, nothing about the larger picture of *why* it needs to look physically better), I'm sadly doubtful...
* people suck
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, lemme get this right, serious console gamers are going to spend their money to recreate a PC gaming environment?
Como say what?
Last time I checked, I bought my Gamecube for the games that were never ever going to be on a PC let alone another console. Animal Crossing and Wind Waker in and of themselves were worth the price of admission.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's going to take a while, but even if Blu Ray movies went on sale tomorrow, not many people are going to replace the DVDs they already have. After all, it's the same physical size, DVD quality is 'good enough' for a lot of people, and there's no increase in convenience like there was going from VHS to DVD or cassette/vinyl to CD.
Going back to your original point, having a device that connects to a TV, reads 12cm discs, but does not play DVD/CD would be absurd. I'd be very surprised if Nintendo didn't include that capability on the Revolution.
You guys are misunderstanding the video (Score:4, Insightful)
I really don't think this is video of the "Revolution" system at all, I think this is very likely the special "joystick" that was mentioned briefly a month or so back.
Watch the video closely, the video clearly presents this system as a 3-D proximity controller. They always show it on the floor in the middle of the room, and that it is sensitive to someone approaching it.
Also, I don't think this is specifically a Revolution controller either. Notice that it shows in one segment, output supported for TV and some other type of screened device, then in the next segment it shows that it takes input from the GameCube and a "?" device of about the right dimensions of the Revolution concept art that has been floating around.
Also there have been complaints that I have seen about the Mario art at the end, that it either looks like Luigi, or is bad art. Oddly enough, this is the common design for Mario on most PC and Mac based games. I'm not sure what that means, but there is a precedent for Nintendo to illustrate Mario like that.
No, this video is very much in line with something Nintendo would generate and potentially show at a press event, and the fact that it appeared on the net last week is either a testament that Nintendo is attempting to execute a buzz kill on it's competitors announcements... or a very serious security breach has happened within Nintendo.
Personally, what I would like to see is the end of the video, and I'm hoping we get to see it next week.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Okay, now define "hardcore gamers" for us as well.
> The majority of their videogames are single player
Super Smash Bros., Mario Party, Mario Kart, Mario (insert sport here), Donkey Konga, F-Zero, etc. all disprove that.
> Flashy disney/fisher-price style games with playability but no real content.
Real content like.. what, Halo 2?
> they're going to spend it on a console where they can play games like Doom3, CounterStrike, Halo2, Neverwinter Nights and so forth.
A PC, then? Because only one of those came out on a console first.
> a console that basically just plays a bunch of mario spinoffs and tetris.
You seem to forget Resident Evil, Metroid, Rogue Squadron, and Zelda, among others
> people who buy a gamecube are usually buying them for a child and the adult doing it thinks "videogame" and "nintendo" are synonymous and don't know better.
So a million parents worldwide have bought RE4 for their kids?
> having more than just Killer7 as a non-children's game
Once again: Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness. Even the Metroid GC games aren't for children.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:5, Insightful)
They're not going to spend that kind of cash on a console that basically just plays a bunch of mario spinoffs and tetris.
Which Nintendo games have you actually played personally for more than 5 minutes? Apparently not very many, since you seem to have no clue whatsoever about what's available.
But if a gamer adult wants to invest money in a console, they're going to spend it on a console where they can play games like Doom3
PC port.
CounterStrike
Another PC port, and of a practically ancient game at that.
Halo2
If you don't mind it being a sequel and a game that started life as a PC/Mac game.
Neverwinter Nights
Maybe i've missed something, but this isn't even available on any consoles, only the PC.
How amazingly original these other consoles ( or in your case, the XBox ) are! Surely nothing Nintendo produces could ever come close!
Their sales are pushed not by quality games and interesting products, but by the fact that people who buy a gamecube are usually buying them for a child and the adult doing it thinks "videogame" and "nintendo" are synonymous and don't know better.
Once again this comic [penny-arcade.com] is ever so appropriate. And for the record, I'm 25 and own both a PS2 and a Cube.
Re:nintendo errs again (Score:5, Insightful)
Nintendo seem to be doing very well for themselves in the 'pathetic' third place. They're certainly turning a profit on the GameCube, unlike Microsoft for example, and have the best first-party games on any system, bar none.
There's no need to have a games library as large as, for example, the PS2's - how many of that system's games are really worth buying? There are plenty of simply excellent games available for the GameCube, and so long as Nintendo keep it up, I'll gladly buy their next system.
Re:Backwards compatability - this will help (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft own a little piece of software called Virtual PC for Macintosh that lets x86 code run on the Power PC chip.
Sure it's a little sluggish on G4 systems but the triple core 3.2GHz PowerPC they announced should surely be able to reach 700MHz Celeron speeds.
The only real issue is emulating the Nvidia video extensions either in s/w or on the ATI card. Nvidia already seem miffed over loosing the XBox 2 deal so they may not be co-operative with details or patents...
Re:Very Quiet (Score:4, Insightful)
Apart from my plastation 2.
Re:You guys are misunderstanding the video (Score:4, Insightful)
Nintendo, and this is coming from somebody with a Game Cube and 15 games, would never release anything like this. See all around the intarweb for the debunks; and none of the major game networks claimed it was anything than a fan based concept deal.
Plug: Not owning either of the two Metroid Primes or Resident Evil 4 should be considered a crime.
Re:A revolution too late I'd say (Score:3, Insightful)
Another unexpected side benefit to this is that, if there's absolutely zero free space inside, and, it has to be exactly zero, there won't be space to put an internal modchip. An external modchip is going to be a pretty big turnoff for some people. Of course, this is more then a little unlikely, but, hey, it's possible, considering the formfactor.
Re:A revolution too late I'd say (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the biggest problem with taking console marketing at face value - they tend to blow small technical details out of proportion to make the whole device sound more impressive. A recent example is the current generation of consoles; they were refered to as 128-bit units by marketing when all of them actually ran on 32-bit processors because they had a vector unit or some video-processor with a wide pipe.
Re:Very Quiet (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Very Quiet (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:3, Insightful)
DVDs? I hope not. (Score:3, Insightful)
Right now you might be thinking, "Are you insane? DVD-9 discs can store 9 gigs of data! What do you mean, limited?" Well, here's what I mean.
As most people probably know, both the Xbox and the PS2 use DVD discs. They both support DVD-5 and DVD-9. The support for DVD-9 indicates something; some games are too big to fit on one DVD-5 disc. This can be conclusively proven by looking at some recent games, like Xenosaga Episode II [ign.com] (see the bottom of the page, "Lasting Appeal"), which use multiple discs. At smallest size, these games are unable to fit on a single DVD-5 disc. At largest, they're too big to fit on a single DVD-9.
That's a lot of data.
I recently read in an article (probably in Game Informer [gameinformer.com], though I can't find it at the moment) that many recent games, including Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater [ign.com], only barely miss filling a DVD-9.
That this is on the PS2. A current-gen system.
I think that says something.
What I'm getting at here is that games are getting bigger and bigger. There's no way around it. As our technology improves and our systems become capable of bigger and better graphics, we must supply more and more data in order to make said graphics.
If a PS2, whose capabilities are far eclipsed by the next-gen systems, almost requires multiple discs, how will those next-gen systems fit all their data in the same space? Better graphics require more data: bigger textures, more polygons, more custom shaders, etc. So how will it all fit?
And bear in mind that this isn't even taking into account the data needed for the actual game. A lot of code and other data is needed for the actual game. Furthermore, the Revolution is supposed to be, as Nintendo says, "revolutionary". How much extra code will it take to do cool things with these "revolutionary" features? A lot, I imagine.
This poses a problem. Where will all that data go? It has to go somewhere. Sure, wonders can be worked with compression, and yes, Nintendo has somehow managed to shove DVD-5 games from other systems into the 1.8 gigs offered by its proprietary format, but there is a limit to how small things can get. Furthermore, too much compression will result in decreased performance, which is a bad thing.
This is definitely a big problem. Sony got around it by flinging enormous Blu-Ray discs into its next-gen system, aided somewhat by the fact that it partially owns that standard. For Nintendo or Microsoft to use Blu-Ray would require licensing the technology, and you can be sure Sony would charge them up the wazoo for both the drives and the discs.
That's a problem.
The way I see it, both Microsoft and Nintendo are in trouble if they use normal DVD drives on their next-gen systems. Nintendo possibly more so, depending on the "revolutionary" aspects of their device, but this doesn't change the fact that they're both rather screwed.
For Microsoft, it looks like it's already too late; the Xbox 360 specs [xbox.com] declare that it has a "12x dual-layer DVD-ROM". There is still some hope left for Nintendo, though, as they've only announced [nintendo.com] support for "12cm optical disks", which could be nearly anything.
Here's to hoping that Nintendo chooses something better than DVD-9.
zerg (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not too concerned about consoles or whatnot, but the idea that the Revolution can play GameCube games really appeals to me. This will save me space and money.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:3, Insightful)
But doesn't that make the DVD player an asset? If you'll remember correctly, the PlayStation gained its massive popularity due to the ease of pirating games for the console. The Xbox came out, and it made it even easier (say hello to copying onto the hard disk), and then that became popular.
Meanwhile Nintendo's copy protection effectively never got cracked, and look where the GameCube ended up... nobody cared about it except the people who could see the games for what they were.
Re:Are they making an error ? (Score:2, Insightful)
I think you mean *just* with kids. I can't imagine anyone over 25 not buying something that is entertaining because it's "omgwtfkiddie".
Kids are stupid. They have to be "cool" or other the other stupid kids will reject them.
Re:Very Quiet (Score:4, Insightful)
In a word: I wouldn't worry about it.
Re:Very Quiet (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you ever timed how long it takes to start up your PS2 and get to a playable state in San Andreas?
Re:dvd drive? (Score:5, Insightful)
As pointed out numerous times already, FFVII used all that space for FMV. They very easily could have made that game for the N64. They chose not to. Back in those days, textures were around 4k. Even 8 - 16 megs is a lot of k's. The music was all midi. The characters were simply polygonal, most using goraud shading instead of textures. Etc. There would probably have been a few comporimises, but FFVII could have made it into an N64 cartridge.
"In reality, their proprietary format drives up cost for developers to use on their system. "
True for the N64, negligible for the GameCube. The reason the proprietary format for the N64 was expensive was because cartridges are just plain expensive. Optical media, nah. Make the disc a little smaller, change the format a bit. That wasn't anything but a minor change to the production facility. If it did cost more for the developers, it's doubtful it was by much. It was CERTAINLY nowhere near the difference between producing a CD and producing a catridge.
"And since Nintendo is continually losing market share to the XBox..."
Ugh. I hate getting into this argument. Are we talking world or USA here? The GameCube might be number 3 in the USA, but it's also killing the XBOX quite soundly in Japan. You may be thinking "so?" but imagine what the executives at Nintendo are thinking. Money's money. Even at 3rd place, Nintendo themselves produce AAA titles. Nintendo is going to react to their profit margins, not their market share. If Nintendo were to turn into Sony, would they really make more money? Sell systems at a loss? Produce cookie cutter games? Do nothing to ensure the market doesn't collapse like it did in Atari's age?
"I think Nintendo should really re-eveluate their stance on media drives."
The media drive isn't going to make the difference. It's the games. If Nintendo wants to give Sony hell, they'll need broader 3rd party support. At this point, the media won't make a difference. (assuming it has reasonable storage, anyway.) They need good hardware. They need good marketing. And they need killer apps at launch to get a few million into people's homes. From there, more developers will come out of the woodwork.
That is: IF they want to do that. The downside here is that store shelves get flooded with games. The problem is that Nintendo makes a killing on its first party titles. Less shelf space means less attention to their own products. Don't get me wrong, either way they make money, but they create a huge mess in their wakes.
Strike a blow against marketing. (Score:3, Insightful)
Being able to hit the holidays is utterly unimportant for the vast majority of console releases. It's much more important to have a library of games available when the 4th quarter hits, and to build up a buzz among the hardcore gamers that should trickle into mainstream interest.
Basically, releasing a console before it's "ready" is always a bad idea.
Re:DVDs? I hope not. (Score:3, Insightful)
I worked on Everquest: Champions of Norrath, and we took up an entire double-layer DVD (to the point where we had to modify the international version - the voice files were too big due to the extra languages). The entire thing was textures. Gigabytes and gigabytes of compressed textures.
More space never hurts. Some games don't need it - if the PS2 had better hardware, I could have done the same thing with much better compression and decompression on the video system, but it didn't, so I couldn't. But on the other hand, maybe I would have found another use for the space.
I don't know if it's a *problem* - but it could definitely be an edge for the Revolution if they can do 20gb+ discs somehow.
Re:Fan-made Video (must see) (Score:2, Insightful)
Just for kids (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not sure if I'm alone in this but I always thought of my GC as something a little bit different. I use my XBox for 'serious' games and PC Ports because I own a Mac, and to be honest £100 for an XBox seemed a lot more attractive than £1500 for a decent games machine.
I bought my GC for party games and genuine original content. I loved Monkey Ball, Doshin, Pikmin and Double Dash. The GC proved without a doubt that there was more to modern gaming than how many polygons you can process per second and how accurate your AI and physics engines are. I think thats what made it better for adults. When I was a kid I wanted more realism and violence, now I want more fun and originality.
This is why I'm excited by the Revolution as there will be something in there that is not obvious by the hardware specs, that will make it a worthwhile purchase - fun games.
Re:Very Quiet (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:dvd drive? (Score:3, Insightful)
Uh.. That and it would raised the cost of the system, made gaming more frustrating, and the games would have been far easier to pirate.