The MMOGs of Tomorrow 95
SirBruce, of MMOGChart, took a good hard look at what the massive games of tomorrow will look like at E3. He has impressions of every game due to be released in the next year or so, with commentary on most. From the article, about Vanguard: "This title is highly anticipated by some of the MMOG hardcore, as it comes from ex-EverQuest developers Brad McQuaid and Jeff Butler, but aside from the graphics and the promise of in-game voice chat it does not seem to be very innovative over the original EQ1 design. The game is designed to be group-focused and highly challenging, which may mean it's too much of a time investment for the more casual MMOG player. If the game were coming out this year, I would have higher hopes for it, but I feel it may get lost behind the mass of other fantasy-themed MMORPG titles."
McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cure (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:3, Insightful)
That's sort of a nitpicky example. The real trouble with EQ was that it wasn't any fun to play; it was tedious work. I haven't played a fun MMOG since the good old days of UO.
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:1)
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:1)
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:1)
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:2)
However, I am not 'wrong'. You won't find a lot of gamers more hardcore than I am, and I'll tell you right now that my idea of what constitutes a 'challenge' involves mo
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:1)
Re:McQuaid Part of the Problem, Not Part of the Cu (Score:1)
Re:blah (Score:3, Insightful)
I loved playing a straight-up healer in EQ. I hardly played any other class.
In fact, for a while, I was playing on a computer which didn't quite meet the specs to handle some of the new zones, but got by just fine because of my quirky enjoyment of playing clerics. When we got into big combat and the graphics started to majorly lag, I just stared at the ground, and everything ran smoothly.
All I had to do was keep people from getting killed,
Re:blah (Score:1)
Re:blah (Score:1)
I think there is a business-case that says catering to the needs of the few is not worth the effect on the many.
-Jeff
Re:blah (Score:1)
Re:blah (Score:1)
Have you actually researched this title, or are you just basing your thin opinion on what Bruce said (which could hardly be called a glimpse on any game mentioned)? There will be soloable content in Vanguard, but the best results will be from group experiences. Some games tend to focus (intentional or not) on solo experiences (such as WoW where grouping for experience yields little better results than solo) and s
Re:blah (Score:1)
Why does the article highlight Vanguard? (Score:1)
No voicechat. (Score:2, Insightful)
What's next? In-game video-chat? That's about the only thing I can imagine that would ruin the experience much more. MMORPGs devolve into too
Re:No voicechat. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
So is this night elf you're talking about male or female? 'Cause I don't know any female night elves that have a hard, stiff arrow.
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2, Insightful)
Because the next level of immersiveness is being interactive. You can't have interactive "twitch" games with typing as the sole method of communicating when tight combat coordination between players is important. Sure, text chat is useful, but when you need mouse an
Re:No voicechat. (Score:1)
In a game like World of Warcraft, however, it would completely disrupt the suspension of disbelief and the whole RPG aspect.
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
On the other hand, faster communication per voice might be a big plus for fast-paced, FPS-ish MMORPGs. And a few of these are in development. Lets try it when a MMORPG with voicechat goes open beta - then we will know more.
Re:No voicechat. (Score:3, Insightful)
Personally I don't think there will be a big problem with voice chat breaking immersitivity. Those who want it will use it and those who don't, won't. Will
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
You may enjoy this, on the subject of voice chat in RPGS: "Not Yet, You Fools" [gamegirladvance.com], by Richard A Bartle. This is an extablished part of the li
speech to text (Score:2)
Re:speech to text (Score:2)
*Homonym* substitution! D'oh! Speech to text can never eliminate stupidity on the part of the speaker
Re:speech to text (Score:2)
It's middling hard to send information from WoW to the outside world, and almost impossible to send it the other way, with the exception of pictures, iirc. I tried to put 'current playlist' into wTunes when I started writing it, and it was a trail of tears.
-- YLFIRe:No voicechat. (Score:1)
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
Re:No voicechat. (Score:2)
Voice-to-text and back to voice (Score:2)
Re:Voice-to-text and back to voice (Score:2)
Lotta MMORPGS coming out (Score:2, Interesting)
A Few Comments... (Score:2)
1. There games are order by company in no particular order, but I did put the bigger companies towards the front of the list. Dungeons & Dragons Online gets my "Best in Show" award, as it impressed me the most, but I was also intrigued by SUN and both Tabula Rasa and Imperator.
2. I focused primarily on upcoming MMOGs, not existing ones or expansions (CoV being arguable). I wasn't trying to provide a comprehensive review of each game; just a quick idea of what the game's a
Re:A Few Comments... (Score:1)
Dear Sigil (Score:5, Insightful)
Hidden stats and formulas -- Not knowing precisely what everything does keeps players hypothesizing and experimenting to try to figure things out. It kept people from truly "mastering" the game because they could not be 100% sure they were correct. It also helped maintain a decent level of suspense and curiosity.
Original EQ-style models -- I don't know why they felt the need to change them, but it was definitely for the worse. The original EQ models were the best I've seen in a fantasy-based MMORPG because they had personality. City of Heroes and AO character models also had personality, for example.
Kill stealing -- I want to be able to kill steal and I want others to kill steal from me. I want the rush of "who's going to be the winner" when some total jackass comes along. The contention of spawns was a huge part of EQ drama.
Death penalty in original EQ/beta EQ (prior to the 2 halvings of the exp loss -- it went down to 25% loss) was SPOT ON! It *should* take me 3 months to reach level 25. You SHOULD lose levels! The set of people who are MAX_LEVEL should *not* only increase. Absolutely superb job on that. Later on with cleric resurrections, it got a little out of hand, but it still maintained a degree of fear and sense of danger! Fear of losing a corpse (even though it almost never happened beyond the newbie levels) is another MUST. Even if it there is just 0.001% chance of losing a corpse, it is on the back of your mind as a motivation to play well and avoid death!
Runs through desolation -- While everyone likes areas with remarkable, and awesome features and attractions, we also enjoy wilderness such as the Karanas or Burning Wood in EQ. Running for 15-20 min through a forest or a plain that seemingly never ends *IS* part of the adventure and fun on its own. What I don't want to see is one point-of-interest after the other, like a George Lucas movie. You need great untouched outdoor areas to contrast with the occasional castle or dungeon entrance!
Looting an item in PvP -- This added a tremendous amount of fear and intensity to the PvP servers/Priest of Discord players. When it was reduced to coin, or less than that, it pretty much killed the desire to entertain the idea of PvP at all. I never played on the PvP servers, but I did go PvP via a Priest of Discord during EQ Beta, and I can tell you that the immersion-factor jumped through the roof when I could suddenly risk LOSING an item to another player. Give PvP meaning again, not just some pansy points system or ladder the MMORPG-of-the-week implemented.
Don't test every single possible scenario with new areas/spells/items. Test enough to know there is nothing totally unbalanced on the surface. This allows you to pump out content without getting hung up. Little unintended sideffects/randomity added a *lot* to my enjoyment of EQ, because it made me feel like *I* was thinking of a particular use. If I could name just one bad trend that started after EQ, it was the insane pre-testing of content that began with DAOC -- a tradition that has passed on to WoW. INCREDIBLY boring.
Instancing does not belong in a MMORPG trying to maintain consistency within its own context. Don't even go anywhere near it. It's the king of all immersion-killers. If you want to lock VERY rare mobs with encounter-routes, that is at least almost *tolerable*, but in no way shape or form will I play another game with instancing or a weak death penalty. And no, context doesn't start at the login, it starts at the server level. Even so, UO painstakingly referred to servers in-game as magical "shards" just to cover their bases. We have devol
Re:That's not how EQ works for KS (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:That's not how EQ works for KS (Score:2)
Should be easy enough.
-Give the first player that touches the mob a significant preference when it comes to deciding who gets the kill. Weight his damage
-When said player leaves the mob alone for a minute or so, strike his bonus and give it to the next one who attacks that mob.
I see really no excuse for relying on EULAS in such things.
Oops,incomplete sentence (Score:2)
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:3, Interesting)
It comes down to the Usual Ganker vs Carebear approach (PvP vs PvE approach if you prefer).
I'm a hardcore player (as in, I invest a shitload of time leveling my char and aquiring gear). Still, I'm not interested in:
1. Having to camp a spawn of a rare mob I need. Its retarded to have someone waste hours on end waiting for a spawn. I'm not intereste
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:1, Troll)
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:1)
You're not actually saying that there has been precedent to determine that these points will fail, are you? If so, what was it? This is what pisses me off -- people coming around and assuming it will fail because the game is not a fucking watered down piece of shit.
The reason many recent MMORPGs have failed is for presuming there is something wrong with these and *not* implementing them. I know, because that's why I usually quit them along with my friends --
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:1)
I mean for christ's sake. you miss Kill Stealing?
Don't worry, someone will create GrieferQuest soon enough. Problem is, only you and a couple dozen hard core players will buy it.
Everquest only included the elements on your list that it did when it was the only game in town, when people basically had no other choice.
Once seriou
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:2)
Nobody needs to earn progression anymore, it's a matter of being the right class with the right level and you can ski
Try FFXI (Score:1)
As anyone whos played th
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:2, Insightful)
If you look at the history of what Sigil's principals
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:1)
Original EQ-style models - I agree. The later models were generic.
Kill stealing - Watch out what you wish for, you just might get it.
Death penalty - True. But it also motivates you to avoid everywhere but the place with the highe
Hidden/changing stats and formulas (Score:2)
Personally, I think a dynamic environment is where a lot of these games miss the boat. In the real world, if a particular tactic is extremely effective, features evolve to counter it. Heck, I suspect an automated system would even work
Re:Dear Sigil (Score:2)
Agreed (Score:1)
eq was beaten by its own success. from the hardcore, start from nothing and fight hard for another ding, we're moving to the mario bros "100 lives from jumping on a turtle shell". original eq (and even kunark) was the best game i've ever played because it was hard, you were on-guard all the time, and you really didn't know what was going on. f
Where did the massively go? (Score:1)
Maybe that is where the market is today, but I think they are missing out a lot on a lot of the more long-term type players in favor of the fas
Re:Where did the massively go? (Score:2)
Great graphics are also an indicator of how much mone
Re:Where did the massively go? (Score:1)
Here is the reasoning.
-The biggest thing that sells a game is Hype.
-One very important way Hype is generated by reviews that say this game is better than that game.
-If the reviews can't judge games very well based on gameplay, they review them based on graphics.
-Hype then is generated for the shiniest games out there and others fall by the wayside.
-Game makers realize this situation and start making graphical shows with gameplay tacked on
Re:Where did the massively go? (Score:1)
Ugh (Score:2)
What I want is an MMORPG that comes along and actually requires some degree of coordination/twitch skill. I know a lot of hardcore gamers don't like that, but theres a lot of us FPS players who like MMORPGs as well, and I think there is a ripe market for a well
Re:Ugh (Score:1)
Re:Ugh (Score:1)
Vanguard (Score:1)
Re:Vanguard (Score:1)
Re:Vanguard (Score:1)
Re:Vanguard (Score:1)
Another perspective on Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (Score:1)
If you look at the history of what Sigil's principals
Re:Another perspective on Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (Score:1)
Re:Another perspective on Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (Score:2)
getting 50+ in eq (pre-pop) meant you either a) knew what you were doing, or b) had a good paypal account, and you could tell the difference by sight.
it was nice when the people that had the best gear deserved it, and you needed skills and brains instead of just time.
All my old eq friends are on wow right now, but i just think they don't get it. eq was hard, but unless you weren't skilled enough for your level you rarely g
Vanguard (Score:1)
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/news.php [vanguardsoh.com]
The things posted here show a remarkable lack of actual knowledge of what the game is going to be as well as a lack of understand of why EQ was as successful as it was/is
Re:Vanguard (Score:1)
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes (Score:1)
Concerning Innovation (Score:1)
A McKenzie Brother at a Wine Tasting? (Score:1)
SirBruce, MMORPG.com called for you... (Score:1)
Wow.... (Score:2)
Anyway, it's important to stress that these are all just quick impressions, not in-depth reviews. I don't think my thoughts about Vanguard were particularly harsh. I admitted that I didn't get a chance to see the whole thing; just that what I saw pretty graphics and not much else. From what they've said otherwise, the game doesn't sound very innovative. Sorry, but that's just t
Re:Wow.... (Score:1)
Heck, I wonder how this article even got posted, or why it was picked out of the list of 20. I don't think most slashdotters care about some game that's not even in beta. That's just plain
Re:Wow.... (Score:1)
I believe you're correct that those of us currently following Vanguard with interest don't represent the majority of the market. Most of us have been through all the other MMOGs and found them lacking in ways that really aren't being addressed elsewhere. We are encouraged by what we've seen and heard, by Sigil's demo
Re:Wow.... (Score:1)
I really suggest that you take a closer look again in a month or so after the FAQ has been recompiled bas
Re:Wow.... (Score:1)
Re:Wow.... (Score:1)
It won't get lost in the crowd (Score:1)
That won't happen unless the game is never released. Here are some good reasons:
Re:It won't get lost in the crowd (Score:1)