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Games Entertainment

Next Generation Cat Fight 135

Posted by Zonk from the play-nice,-children dept.
The gaming industry may be an ever more lucrative business, but in some ways it seems as if kids are still running the place. Gamespot has up an article in which they discuss the nasty things the Big 3 have said about each other. From the article: "Robbie Bach: The other two companies' presentations [at E3] weren't surprising. Sony's [PS3's] capabilities are the same as ours. Nintendo is aiming for the niche market [with its Revolution]. The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas. We will become the market leader with our next-generation console." The Guardian Gamesblog has commentary on this.
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Next Generation Cat Fight More

Next Generation Cat Fight

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  • My dad is tougher than your dad! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xutopia ( 469129 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:20PM (#12695948) Homepage
    Usually these exclamations have no value whatsoever except in this case the daddys will be in the ring soon and we'll have real data to show who wins.

    My idea is that they'll both be successful to varying degrees.

    • Both? Don't forget about Microsoft - they've got enough cash to bleed for another generation or two. Maybe you excluded them because they're making some sort of "home entertainment/media" machine, rather than a gaming system?

  • Hard to imagine... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:20PM (#12695949)

    Quote from Robbie Bach in TFA:

    Sony's [PS3] will be able to use seven controllers simultaneously and connect with two high-definition TV sets. But it's hard to share a single screen with seven people, and it's also difficult to imagine a room with two high-definition TV sets.

    Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory...

    Oops...

    • You do have to admit 7 is a strange number for controllers... why not 8? Which team gets the extra controller? Or perhaps they should of just limited it to 6 if 7 is all the hardware can handle ;)
    • Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory...

      That would be funny if he actually said that but he didn't [tafkac.org] fucking [wired.com] say [usnews.com] it.

      Now please take your trolls somewhere else.
      • I doesn't really matter whether the Gates/RAM thing is true or not. The point is that Bach here is saying "[it's] difficult to imagine a room with two high-definition TV sets".

        Their whole XBox 360 launch thing was about how this was the "HD era", and yet the Chief XBox Dude can't forsee a time when you'd hook up 2 HD displays? Can he imagine a time when you might have a PC with 2 monitors hooked up to it?

      • From you're usnews link:

        Q. Will we always have a desktop PC like the one on your desk?
        A. It will be a huge flat screen, so the viewing size will be dramatically larger than it is now. It will be your preferred device to leave things on and [will] have a pen to make marks on things. Your input will be a combination of keyboard, pen, mouse, and speech. But yes, at your desk you'll have that device. When you walk away from the desk you'll take a tablet-sized device with you.

        I've got a 20" iMac G5. It has a p
    • pfff...how many people have two REGULAR tv sets in one room. I'm not saying it doesn't exist but, it's a perfectly valid criticism.
    • "Yeah, Robbie...I remember when it was difficult for Bill Gates to imagine a computer program that required more than 640K of memory..."

      I don't get it, are you ignorant or are you saying Robbie Bach is right?
    • I have played with 8 controllers/people on the PS2 (using two multitaps) on one screen and it isn't really hard to play on just one screen...it just takes the right type of game to make it work. We played Winning 11 and ESPN NHL 2k5 and it was fun for all 8 people. Even though these were not our favorite types of games, we still had fun playing 4 on 4 with 8 people being in on the action. It was a good night and a lot of fun. Just because you wouldn't want to play Halo in 8 tiny windows on one TV doesn'
    • It's a lot easier to have 16 separate HDTVs connected via the Internet by say... Xbox Live. Realistically, dual HDTVs is still a full console generation or two off.

      If you have the means tho, more power to you.

  • Why fight? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ZephyrXero ( 750822 ) <zephyrxero@[ ]oo.com ['yah' in gap]> on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:21PM (#12695959) Homepage Journal
    All 3 consoles will be damn near equal...there's no difference really except for the games and services now... It's time for an Open Console, but I doubt any of these three will want to give up their licencing fees...
    • I doubt this will ever really happen, as there is already an open gaming console that can do a LOT more than anything MS, Sony, or Nintendo has to offer.

      You're reading /. on it right now.
      • Nope, a PC is fundamentally different than a console... PC's can come in all sorts of configurations and speeds as while if there were an Open Console Standard you wouldn't have to worry if you have the newest video card or enough ram b/c you'd do it in generations, all players would have to meet a certification to call themselves (whatever the standard is dubbed) and then if you want to make a more powerful console you do it to the Open Console 2.0 spec, etc... As for an open standard never happening I gu
        • All I was trying to point out here was that the energy in writing games for a fixed standard is already being spent by game companies on the 1-3 consoles they feel like making a game for, and that those who want to make an "open" game or at least a game which won't cost money in licensing fees to a console manufacturer already have an option: the PC.

          To EA, there's no benefit in having an open console, really. If said console had any market penetration at all, they'll make a game for it. Many game comp
      • I doubt this will ever really happen, as there is already an open gaming console that can do a LOT more than anything MS, Sony, or Nintendo has to offer.

        You're reading /. on it right now.

        you mean webTV? or do you mean my PSP =)
    • I think that an open console would be somewhat cost-inhibited, as consoles generally sell at a loss, and recoup it through licencing fees.

      Look up the info on the 3D0 for a sample of a different hardware sales model...

      I kinda like the 'choice' though, as even though the design are similar each console tend to excel at certain things.

      • yeah, cost would definitely be a tough hurdle...but not impossible. It would have to come out at around $300 or no one would care...just like what happened with the 3D0 going for $700. However, the 3D0 wasn't an open console....it was a "standard" created by one company and then licenced to others....

    • Re:Why fight? (Score:2, Informative)

      by Jacius ( 701825 )
      You must have some insider info on Nintendo's console, then! From what I've read, Nintendo's console will, in terms of specs, be significantly less powerful than either PS3 or Xbox 360. Of course, Nintendo's counting on their console being superior in some way that turns out to be more important than pure processing power. (Maybe it will have a funnitude rating of 33!!!)

      An Open Console would be really nice, but (like you pointed out) the only market-players with the means to mass-produce a new console have
      • No, it's on par with MS's 360 according to every bit of info that's been leaked. The only difference is the number of cores on the CPU and clock speed, but they're equivalent. Both are a bit below the theoretical max performance on the PS3. Which of course is a number pulled out of the nether regions of a jack-ass. The GCN is below the theoretical max performance of the PS2, and it looks 2 times better and doesn't have load times.

        Therefore, I can conclude that the Revolution will look/perform better th

        • Re:Why fight? (Score:2, Informative)

          by Jacius ( 701825 )
          The numbers I've seen [ign.com] say the Rev is "2-3 times" more powerful than the GCN, while the Xbox 360 is "13-15 times" more powerful than the Xbox 1, and the PS3 is "35 times" more powerful than the PS2.

          Looking at this page [xboxmagonline.com], it looks like Xbox's numbers are bigger than Gamecube's in every category. And while the PS2's are smaller, the reported 35-fold increase in performance would put them well above 2-3 times increase over GCN.

          So, I hope you can understand how I came to the conclusion that the Xbox 360 and PS3
          • The revolution is rumored to be using a 4 core PPC processor running at 2.5GHz. The 360 is a 3 core PPC processor running at 3GHz. The GPUs are both ATI and comparable. Memory, bandwidth and structure are different.
          • The numbers I've seen say that developers are making 5-20k poly characters for the next gen (most likely X360). Considering RE4 used 5-10k poly characters you could call that 2-3 times as powerful.
          • Keep in mind that the Gamecube uses a PPC based processor so the jump up to the Revolution isn't as big a deal as it is for the Xbox360 and PS3.
      • Actually....having to code for an extremely wide range of systems makes the PC game design and programming much harder... With a console everyone has the same amount of ram and the same processor speed so you can really focus on optimizing for that instead of stretching yourself thin... Why do you think that 95% of all games are only on console these days? As far as consumers are concerned... installing a PC game is "too hard" when they can just drop a disc in their console and play it. Also alot of people

        • Re:Why fight? (Score:2, Interesting)

          by Jacius ( 701825 )
          The days when game developers had to program for specific hardwares is long over (except, I'll note, in the console industry). Operating systems and libraries like OpenGL and SDL take care of most of that now. Or, at least, they could and should. Game developers should develop for a library (or libraries), not for a set of hardware. The library developers develop for an operating system (or several). The operating system developers are the ones who develop for hardware. It's all about abstraction layers.

          As

  • IBM (Score:5, Informative)

    by turtled ( 845180 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @01:21PM (#12695963)
    And you know who makes out? IBM, they are the core processor for all 3 nextGen consoles. Good for them...
    • I just hope this means more cross platform games...

      • Re:IBM (Score:1)

        by Eugene ( 6671 )
        although CPU probably derived from the same core (PPC?) but each final product is very different from each other. on the top of that, the GPU is totally different, and for console, CPU and GPU are tightly coupled (almost to the point both could be consider CPU IMHO). Sony also use Cell processor... What does Revolution use for GPU?(I have no clue)

        all 3 console might be using the same instruction set, but it doesn't mean cross platform will be easier.
      • Dude, pass that shit you're smoking.
    • Does this mean we should all buy some?
  • The Nintendo spokesman's comments are pure gold! From TFA:

    Asahi Shinbun (interviewer): What has Nintendo learned from its previous game machine release?

    Satoru Iwata (nintendo): .... I'm feeling a real sense of danger about the decline in the Japanese gaming population. Patting a dog and telling it to stay [in Nintendogs] is something that anyone can enjoy. We're aiming to increase the population of game players with these new kinds of games. (emphasis mine.)

    {{backs away slowly}} Thank you for t

    • Yeah, I love Nintendo quotes like that. You just wish they'd shut up once in a while and quit releasing statements like that that can easily be taken out of context. That little nugget of wisdom will be used as a pull quote in boldface on the inevitable EGM article about next-gen machines, doing more harm than good.

      The thing about Nintendo is, they usually have the right idea, they just pick the stupidest way possible to say it.

      • In hindsight, I suppose it could be a cultural difference thing. After all, the Japanese loved Tamagotchi and Aibo. I just can't fathom being personally interested in that type of console game. Perhaps it's the fact that my family includes two living, breathing dogs. I suppose that, if I lived in a high-populated area ill-suited to real animal pets, I'd find this Nintendogs game to be a cathartic surrogate, too.
        • After all, the Japanese loved Tamagotchi and Aibo.

          Just what the Hell did we put in that bomb, anyway?

          -Eric

        • If you looked arouns, you will find that Creatures and CAts/Dogs were incredably popular PC games here in the States and I suspect in other parts of the world.
          These types of games have a wide appeal to people who are onthe fringes of gaing and is a much larger group then actual gamers. YOu will see them bought for kids by parents, toyed around with by parents and sometimes loaded at work.
    • Me too. Nintendo continues to be the best choice for those of us who have no interest in watching photorealistic explosions or carrying as much ammo as we can hold.

      *goes back to her game of Tetris Attack*

    • Did I miss the punchline? That sounds like a pretty valid statement... The gaming population and revenues in Japan are steadily decreasing each year and games just keep getting more complex and inaccessable to newcomers. Nintendogs is like the top selling game in Japan, so if you want to make fun of them for that then you've got some issues...
      • Nintendogs is like the top selling game in Japan, so if you want to make fun of them for that then you've got some issues...

        More like, I didn't know it was a top-selling game there. Of course, that doesn't preclude me from having 'issues', but it does at least point out that your conclusion doesn't necessarily follow from your premise.
    • Thank you for that demographic insight, Nintendo. I will take that into account as I spend my game-console dollars...

      Exactly what kind of informed purchasing decision making is that? You should be concerned about A: how many games do they have that you like, and B: how many games there are that you like but that they don't have. How many games they produce which you don't like should have no bearing on the outcome.

      Given that i like RPGs and don't like sports games should i decide not to get a PS2 becau

      • I initially took their statement to mean that they were refocusing their efforts to a new demographic, wholesale. I have since admitted in other replies that I was being a bit americocentric in my original comment.

        I too favor RPGs, although I occasionally indulge in some FPS titles.
    • Nintendo seems to be aiming for (and may succeed in a degree) two things:

      1) Non-gamers will play their games. The people who don't care for the GTAs and Halos of gaming (or may be bored of them), the type who would like something that's intuitive, easy, and fun to play. Oddball things like Nintendogs, Electroplankton, and whatever the heck the Revolution is should only help that.

      2) Gamers may want the Nintendo Revolution in addition to one of the other consoles. It's likely that, with the low power estima
    • Are you afraid you'll be considered less of a man (or woman as the case may be) because you buy Nintendogs?

      Search your feelings... you know it to be soooo cute!
    • Um....

      Did you know that DS sales have once again surged ahead of PSP sales in Japan because of this game?

      It's may be considered quite surreal, but it's true. Take a look:
      http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4781 [gamesarefun.com]

      Does this mean Nintendo will certainly win? No. But it's definitely an encouraging sign for them.
  • From the Sony guy:

    The current DVD [format] had a slow growth during its first three years of release, but it dramatically penetrated [through the market] after the release of the PS2, and its software prices had gone down.

    Am I totally misinterpreting this comment, or is he really giving the PS2 credit for the dominance of DVDs? Does he just mean DVD as a software medium, or all DVDs?

    • "Am I totally misinterpreting this comment, or is he really giving the PS2 credit for the dominance of DVDs? Does he just mean DVD as a software medium, or all DVDs?"

      I think he means that it was tough to use DVD format for the PS2 (software, not movies) at first, but then in the end it worked out. The context is Sony's decision to use the higher density discs.
    • When the PS2 launched in Japan, I believe it was the cheapest DVD player on the market. It is very likely that the PS2 had a lot to do with DVD popularity in Japan.

      Note: I am a Nintendo fanboy, so don't think I'm biased on this. I picked that nugget up from Icons on G4.

      • In Japan, DVDs never cought on because the players were too expensive (like you said above)... People were still buying VCD (a concept north america never cought on to) and VHS.

        Once the PS2 came out, it was a two-for-one... new gaming concol and video player priced well below the other DVD players. DVD sales shot up significantly.

  • The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas. We will become the market leader with our next-generation console.

    Ok, two things... What does sales of Xbox have to do with sales of the next generation? That only tells you about how the current generation is stacking up against the competition.

    Also, don't you think there's a pretty good chance that Xbox outsold PS2 last christmas because everybody already had a PS2?

    I doubt any of this even matters anyway. The
    • Not really, in my neck of the woods. PS2's were being traded in for Xboxes left and right. We had about 30 PS2's traded in one week alone for Xbox. When we ran out, people began trade it in for cash so they could go buy an Xbox where there was some in stock.

  • Fuck Everything, We're Doing Seven Controllers (Score:4, Funny)

    by 0kComputer ( 872064 ) on Wednesday June 01, 2005 @02:23PM (#12696634)
    Adapted from an onion article: http://www.physics.mcgill.ca/~arobic/funny/Gillett e.html [mcgill.ca]

    Would someone tell me how this happened? We were the fucking vanguard of gaming in this country. The Sony Playstation3 was the razor to own. Then the other guy came out with a three-blade razor. Were we scared? Hell, no. Because we hit back with a little thing called the Playstation3Turbo. That's three Controllers and an aloe strip. For moisture. But you know what happened next? Shut up, I'm telling you what happened - the bastards went to four Controllers. Now we're standing around with our cocks in our hands, selling three Controllers and a strip. Moisture or no, suddenly we're the chumps. Well, fuck it. We're going to Seven Controllers.

    James M. Kilts CEO and President, The Sony Company

    Sure, we could go to four Controllers next, like the competition. That seems like the logical thing to do. After all, three worked out pretty well, and four is the next number after three. So let's play it safe. Let's make a thicker aloe strip and call it the Playstation3 SuperTurbo. Why innovate when we can follow? Oh, I know why: Because we're a business, that's why!

    You think it's crazy? It is crazy. But I don't give a shit. From now on, we're the ones who have the edge in the multi-blade game. Are they the best a man can get? Fuck, no. Sony is the best a man can get.

    What part of this don't you understand? If two Controllers is good, and three Controllers is better, obviously Seven Controllers would make us the best fucking gaming that ever existed. Comprende? We didn't claw our way to the top of the gaming game by clinging to the two-blade industry standard. We got here by taking chances. Well, Seven Controllers is the biggest chance of all.

    Here's the report from Engineering. Someone put it in the bathroom: I want to wipe my ass with it. They don't tell me what to invent - I tell them. And I'm telling them to stick two more Controllers in there. I don't care how. Make the Controllers so thin they're invisible. Put some on the handle. I don't care if they have to cram the fifth blade in perpendicular to the other four, just do it!

    You're taking the "safety" part of "safety razor" too literally, grandma. Cut the strings and soar. Let's hit it. Let's roll. This is our chance to make gaming history. Let's dream big. All you have to do is say that Seven Controllers can happen, and it will happen. If you aren't on board, then fuck you. And if you're on the board, then fuck you and your father. Hey, if I'm the only one who'll take risks, I'm sure as hell happy to hog all the glory when the Seven-blade console becomes the gaming tool for the U.S. of "this is how we shave now" A.

    People said we couldn't go to three. It'll cost a fortune to manufacture, they said. Well, we did it. Now some egghead in a lab is screaming "Seven's crazy?" Well, perhaps he'd be more comfortable in the labs at Norelco, working on fucking electrics. Rotary Controllers, my white ass!

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we should just ride in Bic's wake and make pens. Ha! Not on your fucking life! The day I shadow a penny-ante outfit like Bic is the day I leave the console game for good, and that won't happen until the day I die!

    The market? Listen, we make the market. All we have to do is put her out there with a little jingle. It's as easy as, "Hey, gaming with anything less than Seven Controllers is like scraping your beard off with a dull hatchet." Or "You'll be so smooth, I could snort lines off of your chin." Try "Your neck is going to be so friggin' soft, someone's gonna walk up and tie a goddamn Cub Scout kerchief under it."

    I know what you're thinking now: What'll people say? Mew mew mew. Oh, no, what will people say?! Grow the fuck up. When you're on top, people talk. That's the price you pay for being on top. Which Sony is, always has been, and forever shall be, Amen, Seven Controllers, sweet Jesus in h
  • I read the title, and thought 'Mmmmmmmmm, Deanna Troi and Lt Torres in hot naked baby oil-fuelled action.' Then I read the article.

    Frankly, I feel shortchanged.
  • from TFA:

    "Creating game software in high definition will require everything from the [graphic's] models to the background to be redone, and it will bloat up development costs. And yet, it has no use for people that aren't playing with a high-definition TV set." -Satoru Iwata

    Now, I'm a nintendo kid (at 23), but am I understanding this right? Is the Revolution not going to be High Definition? Granted I don't have a high def TV, but with HD DVD formats starting to emerge and more HD programming available,

    • I'm pretty sure it will have HD capabilities. They haven't released that much info about the system, so no one really knows for sure. But, they would have to be incredibly stupid to not include HD. And last time I check nintendo isn't THAT stupid.
    • You won't need high def to enjoy the innovative back catalogue of 8 and 16 bit Nintendo games from your youth that Nintendo wants you to pay money for again.
      You like Excitebike? Twenty bucks! Again! Cha-ching!

      I keed! (sort of)
    • Hmm...

      Well, as someone who is loath to even spend money on a regular TV, and only uses her current one as a console monitor, I can say that I would definitely appreciate it if games on the next gen consoles didn't count on my having too much fancy third party equipment.

      I know HDTV is big here on Slashdot, but to tell the truth, almost everyone I know has at least one gaming console and none of them have HDTV. It seems like the latest offerings from Sony and Microsoft are going to target better hardware t
  • Am i the only one who read that and expected porn of some sort?
  • The current-generation Xbox sold more than the PlayStation 2 in North America last Christmas

    That's because everyone already has a PS2...w00t.
  • The man's arrogance is mind-blowing.

    Microsoft's arrogance is clearly planned and designed to bring them success. Ignore Nintendo, and so will gamers. That kind of thing. They do it in such a way that somebody who isn't paying attention could easily completely fail to realize that any arrogant attitude is there.

    But look at this guy. How does saying something so blatantly arrogant help you? "Beating us for a short moment is like accidentally winning a point from a Shihan." Wow. Reminds me of last year's E3
    • Me niether, and I'm actually surprised that it took me until this generation to actually put a human name on everything I hate about Sony, considering I turned against them during the Playstation I era. He's obviously got a higher profile now...

      • Re:I couldn't hate Kutaragi more. (Score:1, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward
        I blame Idei Noriyuki, the recently retired CEO of Sony. He was the first non-engineer to head Sony, and as such, he threw build quality out the window as a priority for Sony's products. His big thing was image, image, image - a marketroid. He was also responsible for taking Sony to brand new lows in profitability. This followed the leadership of one of Sony's co-counders (Morita Akio) and some of their brightest days.

        At least Kutaragi is an engineer, and as such, can be forgiven for his stupid geek br
  • Show of hands: who has only one game console? Anybody? Hmm...

    Ok, show of hands: who has two game consoles? Ok, that's about three quarters of you... Interesting.

    Alright, let's see who has at least three game consoles? Wow. I didn't expect that many. Holy cow, there's a guy in the back with FIVE. And he games on his PC, too! Wow.

    Well, it seems to me that the gaming companies aren't really competitors, because most people end up getting more than one console anyway. So, and this is just a hypothesis, maybe
  • Robbie Bach went on to add,
    "Yeah, yeah, Sony's girlfriend may be a bit more attractive, but does she put out? Make no mistake: The XBox 360's penis is much, much larger, and it gets used all the time."

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