PlayStation 3 HDD to Ship With Linux

timtwobuck writes "Gamespot.com is reporting that Ken Kutaragi, president of Sony Computer Entertainment, has disclosed in an interview that PlayStation 3 will natively run Linux. In fact, it will come bundled with it, if you purchase the HDD peripheral." From the article: "But while Linux would require a hard drive to run on, Kutaragi told Impress PC Watch, 'We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default, because no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough.' It was unclear whether he was referring to the previously known fact that the PS3 would not have an internal hard drive or whether he was indicating that the device would not come with the external 2.5-inch detachable HDD outlined in the specs revealed at E3."

Not suprising.

[mindaktiviti]

This is not suprising. Of course they wouldn't ship it with Windows, they don't want to fund their direct competitor!

Re:Open source?

[iapetus]

No. WINE is not an emulator, Cell is not an x86 chip.

Gotta go.

[jericho4.0]

I have to go to work, so I'll keep this short;

YES! OMG YES!!!! This is a dream come true. Thank you Sony. Thank you IBM. WTF is this in the Games section? This is big news for a sub set of geeks. This will be the largest installed base linux has, on interesting hardware.

Won't be enough?

[MBraynard]

'We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default, because no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough.'

Nonesense. Never came close to filling up the 8gig on my Xbox, but every game I've played has made use of the HD because they KNOW it will be there.

Of course, since the HD is optional with the PS3, devs will have to assume that it will not be there to reach a wider installed base. PS3 has just made developing for their system more difficult by releasing two products - ones with HDs and ones without.

Even just a small 4gig drive might have been helpful and inexpensive.

Re:Not suprising.

[mindaktiviti]

Yes, but they wouldn't even buy it from India. They wouldn't even put it in if they got it for free, simply because Microsoft = XBox = competitor.

Good strategy

[killtherat]

It's a good marketing play. It just shifted my preference toward PS3 and away from Xbox360. The ability to use Linux on a system with some rather exotic symmetrical processors, and play all previous PS titles. Right now, all Xbox 360 has going for it is the promise of Halo 3.

Windows or Mac on PS3!

[inkdesign]

Other PC Operating Systems can run too, such as Windows and Tiger (Max OS X 10.4), if the publishers want [them] to do so. That happening seems so far-fetched to me that its very mention undermines the believability of anything else said in the article. That said, it is good to hear Sony will continue to support linux on PlayStation.

ps3 as pc?

[rawmule]

This announcement makes me wonder if Sony is positioning ps3 as a general purpose pc replacement. If the HDD includes not only the kernel but a windowing environment(KDE, gnome, etc...), I could see more than a few people using ps3 as thier primary web/email/office box. Assuming that it has keyboard/mouse support, the ps3 has more than enough power to handle normal pc usage.

linux fetish

[griasr]

me as a linux fetish put all my hopes and prayers into sonys PS3. since apple/microsoft/intel more and more try to get rid of us linuxers i think the future of linux is in the cell processor. also the ps3 used as standardized personalcomputer would take away a lot of work to figure out drivers and sh*t.

Optional Hard Drive?

[LordBodak]

Terrible move by Sony. Developers ignored the PS2 hard drive because the installed base was so low, and I'm sure PS3 will be the same way.

Re:Why?

[Delwin]

Simple - becasue they will get FOSS people to help them with the API's. Not only that but this means that there is already a Linux ported to Cell, so that's proof that it works for IBM to start selling Cell PC's. All in all it doesn't cost them much to put it on the HDD but they get good press, a few more sales, and most importantly free dev work to advance the software for Cell (compiler, graphics API's for the chipset that the PS3 uses etc). Remember - this thing won't run Direct X and programming for that many processors (and taking advantage of them) is a real problem. Sony needs all the help it can get.

Re:Open source?

[FidelCatsro]

It couldn't run wine nativly , but could it run Mac on linux

Becoming hyped and ruining gaming simultaneously.

[JonLatane]

I, for one, think this is a big mistake. At the risk of sounding like a troll, I'm going to tell the truth for once. Sony is appealing to all the little boys out there that are not secure with the image of video games as toys - it's the same situation as the whole "action figure/doll" thing.

In TFA, Kutaragi says "even though we're making something that has the capability to be recognized as a supercomputer and requires paperwork when exporting or importing, the government sees it as a 'toy.'" Obviously, this is a ridiculous statement. The new consoles are extremely powerful, but Kutaragi completely ignores the fact that the lack of memory in all three consoles reduces them to just above the status of today's computers - nowhere near a supercomputer.

The problem here is that Sony is pushing video game systems as "entertainment supercomputers." That's not what they should be for, and that's why the quality of Sony games really hasn't improved. They're not pushing innovation. The EyeToy is a neat idea, but every game for it is basically an oversized minigame. And that's been pretty much all their innovation since... well, since they decided to make the PS1.

However, Sony's business model is obviously the most successful. I have a feeling that, unfortunately, Nintendo may die out in this or the next generation of consoles. They may last longer in the handheld industry, but kids these days want hookers, blood, and gore in their games, rather than fun, replayability, and innovation. Microsoft will increase its market share, and the competition between Sony and MS will drive gaming to a low point, as the market becomes saturated with racers, shooters, and dull, homoegeneous platformers. Eventually consumers will realize what they've done and - I hope - there will be an upwelling of creativity in games.

Huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this sentence strike anyone else as bizzarely phrased?

If we read the last part of the sentence, it says:
"no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough."

I take that to mean that the PS3 requires a lot of storage capacity. BUT, then the sentence says "We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default because [of this]."

That makes no sense whatsoever. If the PS3 requires large storage capacity, then that is even MORE reason to include the Hard Disk Drive.

In other words, this sentence (which is at the heart of the news clip), is logically FLAWED.

This is the equivalent of saying "No matter how big we make the gas tank on this new car that we are building, it won't be big enough. So our new car won't have any gas tank at all."

Does this make any sense?? NO!

I wish people would read what they write out loud, to make sure that it is logically consistent.

Re:Not suprising.

[zzendpad]

So why do Sony Vaio machines ship with Windows, then?

Re:Spelling please?

[Adrilla]

The operative word here is:

EDITORS,
n.
One who edits, especially as an occupation.

The point here is that they should at least attempt to correct the mistakes that someone submits. The simplest task should be to correct simple spelling errors. Such as; changing willcom to will come. I know they get a lot of submissions, but for they few that get selected, they should check that the spelling is correct. It isn't that hard to run a paragraph through spellchecker.

I'm sure I'll get modded down to Hades for this little rant. Maybe I should've posted as an AC, but I'll stick to my guns here.

Never buying anything, either!

[insignificant1]

"'We're not going to equip [the PS3 with] a HDD by default, because no matter how much [capacity] we put in it, it won't be enough.'"

Any computer, stereo, car, house, mp3 player, mail-order bride I buy will never be good enough, so I'm just not going to buy anything.

And any food I eat for lunch today just won't be enough to fill me tomorrow. So I'm going to stop eating, too.

MythTV

[Erwos]

If this is true, and they write some reasonable accelerated X drivers, they've more or less sold me on the PS3. Why?

One reason: MythTV frontend. It's hard to justify spending $350 on a console. Spending $350-$400 on a console that replaces a $250-$300 mini-ITX box... that's much easier to justify. You gotta figure that MythTV will be ported pretty fast to it, if the video and audio drivers are reasonable. I also rather like the idea of using MythGame to emulate other systems - really makes for an all-in-one entertainment system.

X-BOX 360 was definitely a competitor for my cash and home media network, but I just can't bring myself to deal with MCE. For all its benefits (easy setup, well-supported), it has niggling annoyances (lack of friendly open formats, multiple tuner issues, proprietary extenders).

-Erwos

Re:Not suprising.

[Trigun]

You mean they won't be able to contol the desire for everyone to have this machine, instead of buying their competitors product? They won't have to worry about people poking around their bios and reverse engineering it, because there would only be one reason to do that? They won't be able to handle the heaps of praise placed upon them from the open source community?

Damn, this looks like a bad move on their part.

Re:Won't be enough?

[Icyfire0573]

That statement is a bit unkind, however since its a corporation its probably quite true. I think what they really mean though is since it has linux they expect people to go out and buy large hard drives for it, on the order of 120 - 300 gigs, and that would add $150 - $300 to the cost of the console immediately and really who is going to pay the 300 for the console, and then another 300 for the hard drive all at once, that would defiantly scare away a lot of the average Joes looking to buy one of the newest consoles

Re:Not suprising.

[gabebear]

I was thinking how they could still retain enough control so that they still make butt loads of money.

But the more I thought about it the more putting linux on the PS3 makes sense.

• It costs them very little to develop a distro for the PS3
• This gets them around the console tax in Europe(like they tried and failed to do with YaBasic on the PS2)
• Big game programming companies will still need Sony's PS3 SDK for at least the first several years
• Once non-Sony dev kits are good enough, they will be making money just selling the console

Re:ps3 as pc?

[J Barnes]

And we finally arrive back at a more powerful version of the commodore 64.

Can a computer spin in its own grave?

This guy doesn't appear to know shit...

[jondt]

KK: Linux is legacy, but it will be a start.
Legacy? Riiight. No Linux fanboy here, but I know bullshit when I see it.

In the case of the Cell, operation systems are applications.
Wah?

The kernel will be running on the Cell, and multiple OSes will be running on top of that as applications.
Bah?

Of course, the PS3 can run Linux. If Linux can run, so can Lindows.
Comparing kernels to distros here. Despite the fact that the latter is built upon the former.

Other PC Operating Systems can run too, such as Windows and Tiger (Max OS X 10.4), if the publishers want [them] to do so.
But the odds of Microsoft or Apple doing so are zero. So why say it?

I'm sure the guys clever. But he's not technical in the slightest.

Re:Becoming hyped and ruining gaming simultaneousl

[cowscows]

I think Nintendo will manage to stick around, because no matter what the kids want these days or will in the future, there's lots of non-kids with disposable income.

I'm over my blood and gore phase, but I still like games. I'm guessing I'll be playing games for the rest of my life, and I'm interested in new and fun things. If Nintendo keeps producing good stuff, I'll keep buying it. And I think a good number of people will too.

Fundamental assumption wrong

[SuperKendall]

Seriously, why? It's not like the addition of Linux on the hard drive is going to garner any more sales of the product.

What makes you think that is true?

To start with, some fringe people WILL buy the device if it supports Linux, that may otherwise have bought soemthing else.

Now consider the whole XBox hacking scene with stuff like media player and the like. If in the next round the PS3 supports Linux with no hacks, then where are the people working on those projects going to go? Probably the PS3.

Then fast forward a year later when you have multiple choices for media centers and other interesting programs running on the PS3 and no other game console. Don't you think at least a few people would be interested in this?

In my own case, I am probably going to buy a PS3 regardless. However currently I have zero interest in a PSP, which would change if I could program for it and turn it into a universal remote.

Re:Opening the door for game pirates?

[m50d]

On the serious side, this is probably what sony wants to avoid. A lot of people were devoted to hacking the current consoles to run linux on them - and incidentally opened it up for piracy along the way. If it runs linux from day 1 there will be less people working to crack it. Won't hurt the big piracy orgs, but could stop a few of the smaller ones.

Re:Good strategy

[killtherat]

The people who value a PS3 with Linux on an HDD are a statistical anomaly so small that the number of significant digits required to express you as a percentage of potential PS3 buyers is beyond comprehension.

Yes, we are a statistical anomaly, but we still a group worth noting for two reasons.

1) We're more likely to spend more money on their products. We will buy the system, and the hard drive upgrade, and probably quite a number of games. We will spend more money then the casual consumer.

2) We represent an influential group of buyers, ie, if we like the product, we are more likely to recommend it, and people are more likely to listen to us. How many slashdot'ers have ever influenced somebody else's computer purchase?

For those two reasons, any dollar amount spent attracting us as customers has a much greater impact then trying to get to some other demographic.

Re:Not suprising.

[Khuffie]

They also worked with Toshiba on the Cell processor. And in another camp, they're in direct competition with guess who? Yup, Toshiba in that whole Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD spectacle.

Re:Not listening to anything re HDD

[rmac217]

What's the point of a hard drive in a console? Put in CD. Play. Save to a little memory card thingy. PATCHES. If consoles are ever going to be serious players for online gaming they need so support patches. Ever play SOCOM II online? That game sucked after about a week because of all of the cheats and bugs. I hope sony includes some sort of hard drive (even if its small) right out of the box because if it's an add-on fewer games will support it because they don't want to trim their potential market.

Re:Not suprising.

[timeOday]

What you say is true and may even seem obvious, but for a bigwig at Sony to see it that way? That's not only surprising, but outright bizarre.

Re:Not suprising.

[apoc06]

nah, of course sony wouldnt sweat the homebrew factor. its the piracy factor that they are afraid of. its like handing over the key to the door because the valuables are in a safe and then telling everyone the combination of the safe too.

i mean in a perfect world sony would create a image disk with whatever lowlevel linux that they are going to use as their gaming environment and another partition with a distro of linux that you can futz around with til your hearts content. lil jimmy destroyed both partitions with his latest game development project? no problem, stick the cd in and it returns the HD to the default factory state.

that would be perfect, but what about when lil jimmy wants the latest and greatest games? youve got your gigabit ethernet, he coded up his own p2p app in linux, and now hes got the games downloaded. whats the next step? you got it, hes gonna code up his own loader. next stop? jail! lil jimmie is getting hauled off for piracy, since the built-in DRM on the ps3 reported him the second he downloaded the iso.

but in all honesty, many many enthusiasts release their own independent games out into the market. many many computer games are pirated. homebrew will not steal the spotlight from a million dollar industry [although i LOVE the idea of mods, updates and patches for console games]. piracy will always be an issue, period. might as well stare it head on and pray on the strength of your DRM and that for the first couple of years blu-ray burners will be too expensive for casual piracy. your more hardcore gamers will STILL go out and buy the games they love and that will be that.

Re:Not suprising.

[jacksonj04]

Stable, Custom, Cheap. Pick two.

Agreed! But keep in mind it's Sony.

[nobodyman]

I couldn't agree more. Besides the cost implications of having the HD come standard, I'm sure that Sony feels that the reception of the ps3 by the media and gamer community was so much greater than Xbox360 that they could safely take the hit in perception and still wind up a winner. An expensive gamble. I'd agree that ps3 probably has more buzz... but not THAT much more buzz.

You can almost hear the sound of mass high-fiving coming from Redmond. Not only does do they have the HD advantage, but there is simply no way that Sony is going to be able to put a cap on the royalty-free homebrew gaming exchange. My guess is that they figure the homebrew market wont big enough to be a concern, or maybe this is a move prompted by Nintendo (the rumor is that, like iTunes music store, indy developers will be able to create content for the Revolution's download service).

However, I still think Sony can change their mind. When they announced that the PSP would have 8 megs of RAM, the community balked and the developers were in a riot. A couple months of bad press and Sony revised the specs and upped the RAM to 32megs ("what? 8 megs? we never said 8 megs!").

Rest assured that if the media love-fest dies, or if the 360 gets too popular, sony will do an about-face. By then, however, the damage will be done on the first generation titles.

Re:Not suprising.

[CronoCloud]

My guess is: About as long as it takes to compile it and make a .deb or rpm of it. A week, tops.