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Games Government Entertainment Politics

Clinton To Take On Rockstar 309

Hillary Clinton, protector of the innocent, has vowed to see an FTC investigation launched against Rockstar because of the 'Hot Coffee' sex mod (already under investigation by the ESRB). From the Gamespot article: "...following recent reports revealing that the video game Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas has graphic pornographic content which may be unlocked by following instructions on the Internet, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton will hold a press conference to discuss legislative solutions to keep inappropriate video game content out of the hands of young people."
ARGH! Okay...seriously...it's already rated M. It's out of the hands of children. If Rockstar actually left the content in that wasn't the smartest thing they've ever done, but it's not like they killed a puppy.
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Clinton To Take On Rockstar

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  • by enrico_suave ( 179651 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:06AM (#13062586) Homepage
    "... Hillary Rodham Clinton will hold a press conference to discuss legislative solutions to keep inappropriate video game content out of the hands of young people."

    Can you legislate good parenting?

    e.
  • by Sammich ( 623527 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:09AM (#13062608)
    We are the from the Government...we're here to help
  • Makes sense (not!) (Score:5, Insightful)

    by clausiam ( 609879 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:11AM (#13062631)
    ...keep inappropriate content out of the hands of young people...

    Let's see:

    * Killing pedestrians by running them over: Appropriate for children.
    * Shooting people in the head: No problem, kids are ok with that
    * Toasting cops with flamethrowers: Hey, that's cool, go on my little angel dear.
    * Nudity and pornographical images: What is this, I'll call my congress[wo]man immediately. They need to stop this filth from getting to innocent kids.

    Somebody really need to get their priorities right! Not to mention it already has an M-rating as someone already mentioned in another post.

  • by 88NoSoup4U88 ( 721233 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:12AM (#13062635)
    Legislate, nah :

    Keeping parents partly accountable for misdeeds their kids might do : Yes.

    I think Hillary shouldn't be focusing on this game (it's not even -allowed- to be sold to minors : So wtf is the problem), but more on her husband, who seems to be slipping his dick in stranger's mouths...

  • by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:16AM (#13062677)
    Not really, but for some reason a lot of politicians think that they can, or at least substitue legislation for the necessity of parenting.

    Rather than parents taking an active interest in the gaming, television, and online habits of their children, politicians would rather pass laws regulating the flow of information and sale of materials that they feel are harmful to a child. Never mind the fact that these viewpoints are completely subjective.

    Maybe I might feel it necessary for any children I might have to play GTA and experience violent behavior. Maybe I might want them to be able to view pornographic scenes in movies or video games. Who the hell do they think they are to act so self-rightous and decide what is and what is not good for the rest of the world? Essentially what we end up with is a form of censorship, someone else deciding what's appropriate for me to view. I don't mind a review board that posts recomendations and warns me of the content in a product (I don't want to pop in a cartoon and have it turn out to be horse porn or brutal executions), but I want to have the freedom to decide for myself or my children what is appropriate.

    It falls right into line with the American Way though. Why do if yourself when you can get someone else to do it for you and save you the work? These politicians can garner votes by promoting their activities as good for the American public and can go home and sleep at night convincing themselves they've somehow done some good in the world.

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) * on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:24AM (#13062765)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by whodunnit ( 238223 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:24AM (#13062766)
    Accually Probably not. God of War had a sex mini game included in it, that you didn't have to crack the game to access. And it only has a mature rating.

  • by jkujawa ( 56195 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:29AM (#13062808) Homepage
    Is Hillary trying to seek the Presidential nomination from again?

    Sure looks like a Republican from here.
  • Political Analysis (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MyLongNickName ( 822545 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:29AM (#13062812) Journal
    For all those who don't know, this is the equivilant of 'Copy Article Text' karma whores.

    On Slashdot, you just go out, find the article, and make sure you are among the first to paste it into yor 'Comment' box. Mods with no brains mark it up. Then, others copy the article text, but because they weren't first, get modded down.

    In the political world, you go out, find a hot button topic, and make sure you are amoung the first to 'go after it', while in reality doing nothing. Voters with no brains vote for you. Then, Jesse Jackson goes after the issue, but because he wasn't first, people roll their eyes and laugh.
  • FUD (Score:4, Insightful)

    by n3k5 ( 606163 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:31AM (#13062825) Journal
    Hillary Clinton alrady spread FUD about GTA* being a 'murder simulator'; either she is an idiot for critisising a game she never played, or if she played it and still gives the public this biased view, she's a liar. As i previously said [slashdot.org], it's just an arcade game about driving from A to B and then maybe to C, and shooting some targets every now and then. There's no real death, no real sex. Not even virtually real. Just Pac-Man-like game mechanics (but quite entertaining). The player is rewarded for helping people, punished for harming innocents, and taught how to be a better driver.

    Now she has found another lump of coal to throw on her fire and pretends that San Andreas has pornographic content, which is like saying Quake 3 Arena has a brutally realistic damage model (you just need to install this little mod, but most of the code is allready in there!). Again, that's either idiotic or an outright lie. And the large majority of the population (read: voters) isn't all that familiar with this matter and just believes her.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:32AM (#13062842)
    Ok, leaving aside for the moment the issue of who's making the comments (and yes, she's a divisive figure), I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that Rockstar are potentially in the wrong.

    When they submitted this game for its ESRB rating, they did not include any notification the "hot chocolate" content. The result of this is that the ESRB rating was potentially inappropriate for the actual game. Now, it's true that in order to see this content, you have to hack around with the game a bit, but this doesn't fundamentally change the problem. Either Rockstar intended this as an "easter egg", in which case they deliberately mislead the ESRB, or else they did not intend it to ever be accessible, in which case they are incompetent.

    A movies-style ratings system is the best hope that the videogames industry has of avoiding outright censorship. We're all (I presume, posting on slashdot) agreed that for games to be banned outright on the basis of their content, or for certain types of content (which is not covered by existing criminal laws) to be deemed completely taboo and out of bounds even for adult customers, is a bad thing. Depending on who you ask, opinions on an age-control system seem to range from "a good thing" to "bad, but tolerable".

    However, avoiding precisely the kind of legislative blunt instruments that HRC is proposing here relies on the industry playing by the existing rules. If Rockstar has failed to do so, either through malice or incompetence, then they deserve censure.
  • by RealityMogul ( 663835 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:48AM (#13063008)
    They don't enforce "good" parenting, they enforce "required" parenting. There's a big difference.
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stinerman ( 812158 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:52AM (#13063044)
    She's already starting her run to the center for her presidential bid in 2008. Hopefully most people will see right through this.

    She represents the worst of the Democrats in that she doesn't have any positions that won't change based on tomorrow's opinion poll. Not only that, she repesents the "government knows better than you" wing as well.
  • by RealityMogul ( 663835 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @10:53AM (#13063049)
    It's easy to care about something, but its harder to understand it at a level where you can affect positive change. It basically amounts to uneducated caring.
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by macdaddy357 ( 582412 ) <macdaddy357@hotmail.com> on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:01AM (#13063122)
    I wonder if the Junior Senator from New York and everyone else having a cow realize how much free press they are giving this game? People who had never considered buying it before will be curious now, and it will fly off the shelves! Rockstar couldn't have bought this kind of publicity.
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:11AM (#13063206)
    the "government knows better than you" wing as well.

    Which wing was that, the "both sides of the line" wing? Face it, when one party wants the government to intrude into our daily lives to make sure we're all safe and happy from ourselves, and the other party wants the government to intrude into our daily lives to make sure we're all safe and happy from terrorists, we're all boned.

    When the Libertarian Party's alternative quits being "the government knows nothing", I'll vote for them.
  • by MeanderingMind ( 884641 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:11AM (#13063207) Homepage Journal
    Why is it that people can't come out and say exactly what the real problem is?

    If we assume that Rockstar actually coded the sex scenes, and then removed access to them, how can we logically punish them for this? There isn't a secret button combination or set of actions you can use to activate the scenes, you have to hack the game to do it. How can we hold Rockstar responsible for this?

    It seems to me the real reason this issue is being pushed is because Rockstar may have at one point intended to include scenes such as these in the game. The real reason why Rockstar is under fire (aside from being the de facto target of all video game ignoramus) is because Rockstar may have intended to put something like this in GTA:SA, and may still intend to do so in the future.

    Honestly though, if the final version of the game contains no way in which these scenes can be accessed without using tools unavailible within the game, how can we blame Rockstar?
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eyeye ( 653962 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:18AM (#13063265) Homepage Journal
    They care what the polls say until they are elected..
  • Attack on 2 fronts (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shoptroll ( 544006 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:19AM (#13063273)
    They're only doing this cause they want another nail to put GTA in the coffin with.

    For all the over-the-top stuff in the game, it is a piece of smart satirical writing (listen to the radio stations and look at the adverts in the game if you don't know what I mean).

    GTA has been able to evade every politician's attempts to nail it to the wall with the violence issue. Now they have another weapon to blast at it with.

    Still, common sense says: it's M. Kids under 17 shouldn't have it, and those that do have it and have used the patch have probably seen worse on satellite/cable tv.
  • by AzraelKans ( 697974 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:34AM (#13063397) Homepage
    Let me see, this happens America Aka JesusLand, The country that voted "twice" for a guy with an IQ of 80 who sent their sons (not HIS sons though) to a bloody war in the middle of the fucking desert to the wrong country (according Michael Moore at least) and allowed terrorism to their doorsteps in the process, instead of voting for a guy who didnt opossed to gay marriage.

    Hmm.. Id say Rockstar is pretty much screwed.

    Rockstar just move to Canada and get over with it, next time you wont have to lock the sex game. ;)

    p.s. Whats this fixation with politicians and GTA anyway? havent they noticed god of war has twice the blood, none of the choice to be bad or not and a completely unlocked sex game? or what about the sex scenes in fable? the guy game (which are real girls btw) or playboy mansion? those arent locked either.

    Or if you want to go there, what about the nude patches for DOAVB or Tomb raider?
  • by dpilot ( 134227 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:38AM (#13063426) Homepage Journal
    Not that I approve of "substitute legislation for the necessity of parenting," but if we've substituted day-care and latchkeys for parents, a lot of the damage to parenting has already been done.

    Back in the 50's we had the classic "Leave it to Beaver" parenting model, where Dad went to work, and Mom stayed home with the kids. Perhaps Mom was swilling the liquor and playing poker with her friends, but mine wasn't, and AFAIK, the other moms in the neighborhood weren't. We had active and involved moms who enforced values, (to put it in current-speak) kissed skinned knees, and got us back up on our bikes, etc.

    Fast-forward to today, where the norm is either two incomes, or a single working income. Young kids are in day-care - presumably the low-cost provider, and older kids lock the doors after getting home from school. If parents get home at 5:00 and put the kids to bed at 9:00, that's 4 hours, 5 if you include an hour in the morning. You can "teach" all you want during that 4-5 hours, but that's dwarfed by the "imprint time" with the sitter for small kids and classmates/media for larger kids. But then again, two wrongs don't make a right. Further legislation doesn't correct the problem of busy parents, it only tries to hide it.

    Not that I think 2 working parents is always bad. Some families can handle it. I just don't think it's good as the "standard model" for our society. But from the Government's point of view, it's great! Put Mom to work and you also partially finance a day-care worker, collecting taxes from both. You also find less cooking-from-scratch and more prepared foods, with attendant higher corporate profits (taxes, again) and job creation rates.
  • by petrus4 ( 213815 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:39AM (#13063432) Homepage Journal
    Attention Boomers. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but despite the amount you might wish it to be the contrary, the 1950s are well and truly over. Deal with it. Yes, the world is a lot more secular, and a lot less racist, and yes, the gays and wiccans have ascended from the sewers and are now legally able to walk among the rest of us. On the other side of the sexual hypocrisy-related fence, a man (or woman) can now actually be caught and criminally charged for molesting their children. Horrifying concepts, I know...but if I've learned to acclimatise to it, so can you. Postmodernism and moral relativism have inherited the earth, and like it or not, there ain't no going back.

    That of course is the crux of what this is about...people in Hillary's generational bracket having delusional recollections of the era of their own childhood, and wish to attempt to force said delusions upon the rest of the world. With the dawn of each new day I seem to read yet another report of an attempt at fascist control by some beurecratic 50+ year old suffering from the effects of advanced neurological decomposition. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Hillary and the rest of her geriatric, sexually deprived ilk need to be in nursing homes...NOT in the halls of government.
  • Re:Thanks Hillary (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Epi-man ( 59145 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:39AM (#13063435) Journal
    Nonetheless, if the GTA "outrage" is bogus, then she's fundamentally being dishonest,


    Interesting, I don't believe I have ever seen Hillary as being fundamentally honest. Have you watched and listened to her over the past 13 years?
  • by slughead ( 592713 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @11:47AM (#13063521) Homepage Journal
    Not really, but for some reason a lot of politicians think that they can, or at least substitue legislation for the necessity of parenting.

    I find it funny that whenever republicans do this, everyone starts talking about "THE RADICAL RIGHT," but when democrats lead the way, it's all about "the government" or "politicians" in general.

    It works the same way with gun control: when republicans do it, it's "big government," when democrats do it, it's "the liberal's" fault.

    It's so confusing, that's why I can't vote [lp.org] for either of those two parties.
  • by clausiam ( 609879 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @12:01PM (#13063620)
    To be fair, there is a good deal more teen pregnancy going on than teen toasting-cops-with flamethrowersancy...

    Because teens will be teens and this whole push to preach abstinence instead of safe sex will never work. The religious right driven push to make teen/pre-marital sex a sin and punish parents who try to make their kids safe (the lawsuit against the mother who provided condoms for her son) is backfiring greatly and will lead to many more teen pregnancies and STDs.

    Talk to your kids, make them behave responsibly as much as you can but don't expect the majority of 14-17 year olds to not want to explore sexuality once their hormones start pumping.

  • Re:I like hillary (Score:2, Insightful)

    by FooHentai ( 624583 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @12:06PM (#13063658) Homepage
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a good thing that a politician would listen to the view of the people (opinions, polls) and adjust their position accordingly.

    Much better than someone who pushes through an agenda irrespective of public opinion.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 14, 2005 @12:51PM (#13064198)
    "Back in the 50's we had the classic "Leave it to Beaver" parenting model, "

    That was only classic during the fifties, and perhaps a generation before. Before that, the reason a mother stayed home was because taking care of the house was full time backbreaking labour. Mothers didn't have time to take care of skinned knees and put kids back on their bikes. The kids were tossed outdoors to wander or working on keeping the house together. Families were huge, with the older kids taking care of the younger.

    The whole nuclear family thing is a crazy idea that came about because of a sudden rise in affluence allowing individual family homes, the invention of labour saving machines, and the proliferation of birth control. We're still figuring out how the hell a nuclear family is supposed to provide some sort of social, community awareness for the children, regardless of whether the mother stays at home. If every house has 1.7 kids, how does a child learn to care about more than 3.7 people?

    Your "standard model" was a post-war daydream. It didn't exist before WWII, and it didn't even manage to last out the generation. The first children of that dream were the ones hanging out at Haight-Ashbury. If you think it was ever traditional reality, you've been believing too much heavily censored early American television.
  • by budicepenguin ( 897768 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @12:52PM (#13064202)
    So, the entertainment industry should be held accountable for making violent video games? I suppose he also thinks gun manufacturers should be held accountable for making guns, too. God forbid we actually blame the people who committed the crime; let's just blame some industry scapegoat instead.
  • If Rockstar actually left the content in that wasn't the smartest thing they've ever done, but it's not like they killed a puppy.

    You're not too familiar with the United States, are you?

    Remember, this was the country initially founded by Separatists, the country that put the "duh" in "fundamentalism."

    The country where you can have all kinds of death and explosions and only get a PG-13 rating, but show one human penis and you get slapped with NC-17.

  • Re:I like hillary (Score:2, Insightful)

    by faloi ( 738831 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @01:41PM (#13064826)
    I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Politicians tend to say things that'll mesh well with opinion polls, and then go off and do what they want (because they know better). And let's not forget that it's possible to take a poll in a way that gets exactly the opinion you want expressed. You want firearms banned? Concentrate your polling in mostly urban areas where there's less recreational firearm use. Want to keep 'em around? Poll primarily in rural areas where hunting, target shooting and the like are still done regularly.

    That may not be the best example, but you get the idea.
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jebell ( 567579 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @01:41PM (#13064828) Journal
    What if the will of the majority tramples the rights of the minority? It wasn't that long ago that politicians in the American South fought to keep blacks and whites from using the same public facilities. This was what the majority of their white constituents wanted but that doesn't make it right.
  • by DavidTC ( 10147 ) <slas45dxsvadiv.v ... m ['box' in gap]> on Thursday July 14, 2005 @02:00PM (#13065119) Homepage
    What I think is scary in this country is we're discussing this like consensual sex and violence are somehow comparable.
  • by stinerman ( 812158 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @02:05PM (#13065194)
    1) Dean has no bearing on party policy. His job is to keep the grassroots liberals silent while making sure they're still donating their money to the party.

    2) Nancy Pelosi is a congresswoman from San Francisco. By their standards, she's pretty moderate. Making her minority leader, once again, doesn't mean anything.

    Look at Presidental races. The last liberal the Democrats nominated was in 1988 (Dukakis). The Republicans made the mistake of toying with a moderate in '96 (Dole) and he got hammered.

    If the Democrats had a similar platform in terms of how much it resonated with their base it would include:

    Abolition of the death penalty
    Universal health care
    Slashed military spending (by at least 33%)
    Immediate withdrawl from Iraq
    Increased TANF/Welfare Spending

    Your average Democrat is somewhere just to the right of Dean. The average Democratic politician is simliar to John Kerry.
  • Re:I like hillary (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Gherald ( 682277 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @02:07PM (#13065237) Journal
    > When the Libertarian Party's alternative quits being "the government knows nothing", I'll vote for them.

    I am a Libertarian, and I don't see anything the Party platform [lp.org] that can be construed as "the government knows nothing."

    I would start by saying "the government is terribly inefficient and should be reduced".
  • by nobodyman ( 90587 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @03:09PM (#13065922) Homepage
    ARGH! Okay...seriously...it's already rated M. It's out of the hands of children. If Rockstar actually left the content in that wasn't the smartest thing they've ever done, but it's not like they killed a puppy.


    Actually, I find Rockstar's behaviour incredibly irresponsible. Now now, hear me out . It sounds like I'm about to make a moral stand... i'm not.

    Here's the deal. Rockstar has been playing a very dangerous game. They that the controversy of GTA3 helped their profits more than it hurt. After making this realization, they've been ratcheting up the controversy -- the GTA series has arguably become more and more violent and lost most of its "comical" violence, and of course there's Manhunt. Manhunt is the most obvious example - were it not for the controversy (and subsequent free publicity to gamers wanting to know what that controversy was about) that piece of crap would have sold all of 3 copies.

    So they've playing this game of chicken with the media and the US government, trying to see just how far they could push it. Then they include the "hot coffee" content, knowing it would be easily unlocked while having the out of saying it was the work of hackers who had to tweak the code. Make no mistake: Rockstar wanted the hot coffee content to be unlocked.

    Unfortunately, it's not just Rockstar that takes the heat. The media resoundly thinks that Developers are amoral thugs and that all gamers are pathological timebombs. And when congress steps in and decides to regulate, they wont regulate only Rockstar games. Everyone in the industry suffers.

    I believe in freedom of expression, and it puts me in the position of defending Rockstar. I think they should have the freedom to do make any type of game they please. However, not for one second do I think that the company is run by anything other than irresponsible media whores.
  • by NBarnes ( 586109 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @05:07PM (#13067106)
    That was kinda my responce, too, actually. And that from someone who is themselves a game dev professional. Right or wrong, our country is obviously having a social debate about videogames, and in the middle of that, Rockstar is not just putting out iterations of GTA3, but... releasing content like this. Thanks for helping the rest of us in the industry reach some sort of accord and avoid uneccesary regulation, Rockstar. When I have to put my next indie release through some chickenshit review board process, I'll make sure to send you a nice note.
  • by mZam ( 789803 ) on Thursday July 14, 2005 @06:32PM (#13067826)
    Honestly.... how goddamn hard is this concept to wrap around your head? ESRB Rating : M for mature. This game contains: http://www.rockstargames.com/sanandreas/image/M.gi f [rockstargames.com] Thats the ESRB rating right from the box... Where on there does it say the game is SAFE for kids to play? It's not meant for children. It even says there's strong sexual content. That would mean the "hot coffee" mod doesn't raise the bar any higher then it's already been set for!
  • by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Friday July 15, 2005 @05:22AM (#13071056)
    Dole was also horribly stiff and unfriendly during the 1996 campaign, compared to the ultra-charismatic Bill Clinton as well as to himself in his numerous TV appearances after he lost the election. He probably still wouldn't have won, but he would at least have had a better showing if he'd just been himself a little more during the campaign.

  • by gameboyhippo ( 827141 ) on Friday July 15, 2005 @01:21PM (#13074771) Journal
    As a developer, I disagree with you. Could it be possible that R* wanted the code to be found? It would be their way of putting the code in and not taking responsibility for it. It could then up the sales of GTA to young pervs while still keeping that M rating. You don't have to be a hacker to download and install a patch.

    Now I hate agreeing with Mrs. Clinton, but in this case, I'll have to swallow my pride and agree with her.

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