ESRB Revokes San Andreas Rating 913
Alex Blonski writes "In a stunning move, the ESRB has advised retailers to stop selling Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. This report follows public pressure over the Hot Coffee debacle. Rockstar, the publishers of the game have given retailers the option of restickering the game with an 18+ rating or exchanging it for a new version with the controversial content removed. ESRB head Patricia Vance says 'After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox and PS2). However, the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible. The material can only be accessed by downloading a software patch, created by an independent third party without Rockstar's permission, which is now freely available on the internet and through console accessories. Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined.'"
In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
priorities? (Score:3, Insightful)
Is "The Sims" also rated AO? (Score:4, Insightful)
This will probably increase interest in the game (Score:2, Insightful)
What a hive of stupidity (Score:2, Insightful)
Society depresses me.
America (Score:4, Insightful)
As a British person (of 15 years of age), I pity you Americans. What the fuck is your problem with the human body? Why an 18+ when the 17+ was appropriate for the game, even with the minigame?
Why on Xbox/PS2? (Score:1, Insightful)
17+, 18+, whatever... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seventeen year-olds just aren't ready for that kind of stuff yet. Their exposure to sexual situations should be limited to what they do with their boyfriends/girlfriends in the back seat of their parent's car when they're "at the movies."
Oh, BTW, to all the parents out there... Your 8 year old probably says 'fuck' all the time when he knows you're not around, so you can get over yourself already.
Re:In other news... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ebay here I come! (Score:2, Insightful)
A generation is saved! (Score:5, Insightful)
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO - News) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+"
So basically, they've made the decision that 17 year-olds just shouldn't see this two-bit low-res porn hack, and stick with the carjacking, wanton murder, and other wholesome activites within GTA. 18 year-olds are qualified for the whole ball o' wax, though.
Amazing...
Re:priorities? (Score:2, Insightful)
Beginning of the End (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
Come to think of it, no. Bring on the guns and bombs.
Re:America (Score:3, Insightful)
The bottom line to me though is still that ratings and such just point out our own moral stupidity - I know of very few under the age of 17 who make enough money to buy all these video games, yet when such a game is available to purchase to these youngsters, we scream and rant at the industry to prevent this by placing some stupid rating on the game so the dude at Wal-Mart has to press an extra "enter" to verify the age of the purchaser. Anyone ever think about just not giving their kids the money to buy the game?
Or better yet, why not trying paying attention to what you kids do/say/watch/play once in a while? I know, I know, I'm asking too much. After all, parents are people too - why should they have to take responsibility for the lives they bring into the world when they can just press the "easy" button all the time and place restrictions on all of society.
Re:17+, 18+, whatever... (Score:3, Insightful)
Bwahahahahaha. This person speaks the truth. When I was 6 I found that magical word, and haven't stopped using it yet.
Fuck, it feels good to say fuck.
Re:nice publicity (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In other news... (Score:1, Insightful)
Isn't this the bigger problem? I mean how many of these parents are probably complaining about the sex scene in the game. They're okay if the kid is playing a game that encourages you to pick up a hooker, pay for sex, have sex, then beat up the hooker to get your money back. However, actually show a realistic sex scene just goes to far!
Note: The hooker stuff I know was in GTA Vice City - not sure if its in this one, and I've never actually seen what's in this Hot Coffee scene.
Re:What if... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Is "The Sims" also rated AO? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:priorities? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why this happens . . . . who knows, but it does serve as more proof that Americans are, in general, completely out of their minds.
(First person to post "GO BACK TO FRANCE!!!111one" will get beaten to death with a dildo.)
Could mean big problems for coders (Score:3, Insightful)
Which Really Is Worse Anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)
Me, I would prefer my kid watch a porn flick any day rather than "Natural Born Killers" or play a video game with tawdry pixels as opposed to trying to see how many crimes can be committed in order to get a high score.
After all, who gets hurt by a good (consensual) boffing?
Well, yeah, I know about sex and responsiblity. So spare me the usual screed. But if you do, pleas explain at the same time a way to "responsibly" carjack or murder someone.
Re:In other news... (Score:4, Insightful)
Now, look at the ESRB's rating system. It has the same generalized ratings: EC/E/E10+/T/M/AO+. It also includes 32 content descriptors, ranging from Tobacco Reference to Comic Mischief to Edutainment. It's much more comprehensive than the others.
What I'd really hate to see is Rockstar going the movie studio route and releasing a game as "UNRATED" rather than accept the dreaded "AO+" rating. It is a very unfortunate loophole, and hopefully the big boys won't carry unrated games.
Also, I'd like to point out that this entire thing is 100% Rockstar's fault. They're required to send video footage to the ESRB that covers the overall gameplay of the game, as well as the game's most explicit scenes. The ESRB uses that footage to rate the game, if Rockstar didn't include it then the ESRB can't really be at fault.
Hillary using it to get re-elected... (Score:5, Insightful)
Hillary Clinton (who makes ~$162k http://people.howstuffworks.com/question449.htm [howstuffworks.com]) has decided that it's in her best interest to waste her time (and our tax dollars). I'm sure that the FTC has better things to do than to investigate RockStar Entertainment... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4682533.stm [bbc.co.uk]
this is the hard way to see porn via internet (Score:5, Insightful)
you may think that's a strawman, bringing up internet porn, but think about it. the point of the ESRB rating is to inform the parents of the content of the game. which, in my opinion, the "M" rating did accurately. the sex scenes aren't in the game. they were disabled.
from a parent's standpoint, what is the difference between downloading a third-party mod that enables disabled content, and applying a third-party mod that adds newly-created content? they are identical in their difficulty/accessibility to a kid, and both insert content into the game that the developer did not intend to appear there!
it is drawing boobies on the title page of "Harry Potter" and then sueing JK Rowling, citing an unfinished but steamy scene she deleted from her hard drive as evidence.
When did America lose its mind? (Score:5, Insightful)
The game allows you to...
Re:Only in the USA.. (Score:3, Insightful)
"Holy Crap What The Hell Is Wrong With You PEOPLE!"
A Puritan landed on the shores of New England.
Re:People are still having sex (Score:2, Insightful)
Wow (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean ignoring the fact that violence is alright while sexual intercourse sparks a massive outrage.
The content is UNPLAYABLE!!! It cannot be played! If you get a copy of the game can you just pop it in and see this naughty content?
No.
Why?
Because it's UNPLAYABLE!!
Wait!! You mean you can download something off the internet that lets you play this naughty content **GASP** What an outrage!! That someone going onto the internet could gain access to pornographic content. It's completely unheard of. Clearly this is a matter of national importance that a game can be made pornographic with things downloaded off the internet!
This whole situation is just a bizarre combination of sexual prudism combined with a complete lack of technical knowledge, I'm ashamed to be on the same continent where stuff this ignorent stupidity occurs.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't think I've ever seen that in a game, and rarely have I seen in in movies. Screwing and fucking in lust, yes, but never what you described.
Re:Is it a new work? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:nice publicity (Score:3, Insightful)
What would the reason be to put it in there then? Perhaps the publicity that they are getting now?
The game is rated "mature". If you can develop a relationship with a girlfriend, and you can also pick up scantily clad hookers and screw them so well that they squeal with delight, and you can also indiscriminately kill a row of people from afar, and also kill someone in vivid close up detail, work out at the gym and watch your muscles grow, or watch your character get fat at a burger joint to impress a girlfriend, why would having sex with girlfriend be such a departure from the rest of the theme of the game?
The development team was probably entrusted with total creative freedom. As it neared release and was shown to people in the company who understand the American political landscape, they probably told them to nix some features, including the graphic sex with girlfriend one ("but leave in the prostitutes, that never gets old").
I don't understand why the "mature" rating still doesn't apply.
Re:Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, this specific non-sense is pouring from the liberal side of the US governemnt. Clinton, Lieberman, etc. They have been itching to go after GTA for years, but could not as Americans love the macho gore as part of the entertainment. Thus they waited until they can make that into a "think of the children" deal.
The funny part is that I have not heard a word from the conservative side, although the religious right I am sure is on the same side. It is currently the moderate republicans and libertarians that have the most sense these days.
Oh, and do not blame the GTA deal on Prez. Shrub. He is not turning those gears in motion. Blame the nanny-state liberals for this one.
I believe you have overlooked your logic... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
Just like in the dark ages: you can have public executions and torture sessions but you cant even _think_ about sex.
history repeats itself...
Re:Wow (Score:2, Insightful)
The very definition of "fucked up America".
Re:In other news... (Score:5, Insightful)
There are nude patches for the Sims, but you don't see little Suzie being carded for a new expansion every month, and you certainly don't see it getting slapped with a M or AO rating.
And that is mostly a lie.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Hillary using it to get re-elected... (Score:3, Insightful)
Perhaps the next version of GTA should instruct its gameplayers on how to turn a $1,000 investment in cattle futures into more than $100,000 in profit without any knowledge of that investment...or even better...how to shoot a person in the head, put the gun in the wrong hand, drag the body through a forest, dump it, and then have the law enforcement professionals deem it a suicide. I'm just saying!
Or maybe just a GTA game involving making contributions to elected officials to get what you ultimately want legally.
Hopefully, Take Two/Rockstar and possibly the ESA itself can give some campaign contributions to anyone running against Hillary for her Senate seat. Maybe Ralph Nader can jump into the race and shave off 2% of *her* votes...
Re:Of course (Score:4, Insightful)
Switzerland?
I think the more technically correct challenge should have been "show me a country that doesn't rely on it's ability to fight a war to keep the peace". In that case, Switzerland doesn't qualify as practically every dang person in the country has a government-issued assault rifle and attends Schutzenfest [google.com] regularly, the idea being that the whole country is the army, even the women. This (plus the terrain) is the real reason why the Schweiz have been able to stay "neutral": they're essentially unconquerable.
Re:No, they didn't. RTFA (Score:3, Insightful)
They never said the content was inserted, they said the game was modified, which is true.
Oh, come OFF it. That passage is all but incomprehensible gobbledegook for anybody who isn't a programmer. "Altering the game's source code" sounds an awful like inserting the entire thing into the game. This is nothing but atrocious doublespeak which any politician would be proud of.
So no, TECHNICALLY they did not claim the hacker did it, but the message was carefully worded to give that impression to the average person. But in court, they can weasle out of the statement by explaining that setting bits in the binary is what they meant by "altering the source code."
It's WEASEL WORDING.
Sorry to be blunt but (Score:2, Insightful)
Sex is the principle Method of reproduction for our species , its important , it is a lot of fun , it is freely accessible and it is not going to disappear.
anyone over the age of 18 offended by some slight sex in a game filled with violence(which is a lot of fun) is seriously in need of some social education or mental help
I am very glad i do not live over there at this moment
Seriously , Censorship is the job of the parents not the state
ESRB you are officially a bunch of a fascist bastards
Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet (Score:2, Insightful)
You're dreaming if you think rockstar didn't have this little stunt in mind when they released the game.
They pulled a fast one on ESRB and the parents so they could pad their bottom line. And it worked. What makes this rich is that they've got people like you defending them.
Re:nice publicity (Score:1, Insightful)
that gives you little over a year to make a fully working, bugless game.
you work and work and work on it and manage to make it just in time for testing, so testers test it and they find the bugs they get fixed and the game is sent off for Rating.
it comes back with an M rating for something, you only have a week left before this game has to be to the printer for production if it's ment to meet the christmas deadline, only problem is the higher ups want this to be a T rated game and want it out on christmas no matter what.
Will you lose your job over telling them that there ins't enough time to remove the M rated content and they just higher someone else who can do a quick fix? or do you simply write a quick fix to disable it so it meets the deadline?
Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet (Score:5, Insightful)
Children aren't bothered by nudity. Only the adults are.
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
You're absolutely right, and I'm glad you put in the "nanny-state" qualifier. However, I'd like to point out that most liberals are socially libertarian. The people who danced around naked in the Summer of Love and the folks who brought us the sexual revolution are about as liberal as you can get.
This just shows once again that the Democrats are not REAL liberals. I suspect they would have more success if they were. I'm not really sure what to call soccer-mom puritanism - vote-whoring comes closest, I guess.
Bullshit: Re:Is "The Sims" also rated AO? (Score:3, Insightful)
Having seen the video for the Hot Coffee Mod and using the no-blur code on The Sims 2 I call bullshit. Sure, you get to see Sims take a shower or bath, but they have no, what's the polite term... "naughty bits" to see. You get half a point because the Hot Coffee mod has no nudity (at least the video I saw didn't have any). But more sex?
Have you even played Sims 2? I'm thinking you haven't. If you had you'd know that the sex all happens hidden under blankets, under water, or behind the dressing room curtains. And what little that is actually animated is more appropriately described as "tickle fight".
Re:17+, 18+, whatever... (Score:3, Insightful)
Have you checked the teenage pregnancy rate lately? They AREN'T ready for that stuff.
Oh, BTW, to all the parents out there... Your 8 year old probably says 'fuck' all the time when he knows you're not around, so you can get over yourself already.
When people say things like this, what do they mean? You could use this argument to completely abrogate any parental guidance whatsoever. Should I let my 8-year old say "fuck" whenever they want?
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:America (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference is that in the U.S. censorship is still controversial, where as in the U.K. is happens without anyone taking a notice.
Re:What if... (Score:2, Insightful)
First, that's the difference between unlocking "fully rendered, unmodified" content that was never meant to be accessible to the user in the shipped product and a third party just adding in that content themselves?
Second, what's the difference between having content that was never meant to be accessible to the user in the shipped product and that content not existing at all?
Re:People are still having sex (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the big deal? (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not sure I understand. From TFA: What exactly is so bad about this? It has a different rating. So what? The ESRB is doing their job. From the ESRB website [esrb.org] What all of that means is that the ratings assigned by the ESRB are intended to be used as a guide, such that the consumer has a general idea of what to expect. Parents that are using these ratings in place of discretion appropriate for the individual child are taking a general recommendation and treating it like the gospel.
Additionally, the ESRB is not in the business of modifying games. Their job is not to find content that is not accessible through game play. The argument that the content is accessible through game play is nonsense. A patch was required in order to access the scene in question. For the ESRB to apply unofficial patches to a game at any point during testing would be completely unethical. It is doubtful that anyone on the ratings board sees code regularly as part of their job; there is simply no need.
The purpose of the ESRB is to evaluate a game for content and issue a rating to inform parents of what to expect. With what was known at the time, this is exactly what they did. Take careful note: in light of new content discovered in this game, the ESRB has changed its rating. This is not arbitrary; ratings are determined based on the material in a game, and this game now meets the criteria for an AO rating.
Furthermore, the magnitude of this issue the result of little more than Hillary Clinton's political campaign. Were this a truly important concern to the former first lady, this type of video game modification would have been under fire years ago. The patch for The Sims that caused all of the characters to walk around completely naked has long since been forgotten.
This display of political impropriety is clearly an attempt to insert Senator Clinton into the limelight to gain press attention in preparation for a presidential election, at the expense of the public perception of the ESRB's integrity. In spite of Clinton's disingenuous actions and the difficult situation they have created, the ESRB has handled the matter exceptionally well.
Re:America (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Wow (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, but you're being naive. Do you understand the point of ratings? It's to tell people what's IN THE GAME, even POTENTIALLY. So what if you have to download an unlock? The point is that the content is in the game, and the point of the ratings is to tell you what's in the game.
If a parent can't trust the rating to reflect what a kid will be exposed to (since a lot of kids WILL download the unlock), then the rating is completely meaningless.
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
In fairness, Tycho [penny-arcade.com] has a point. We let a lot of crap slide. By all rights, GTA as shipped should have had an AO. Halo should have had an AO. The difference between the M rating and the AO rating is *one year* and a bunch of sales - it's stupid. It's exactly the same with movies, too. But as a culture we're hypocrites and every so often we need to sacrifice someone up the "think of the children" gods, and Rockstar certainly has put themselves out there to be the goat.
If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.
Re:Boots excepted (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it: all the people with the PS/2 or Xbox version of the game who ran out and actually bought the PC version of the game just so they could use the Hot Coffee mod. The fact that it's going to be rated "AO" now is irrelevant - sales are going to soar for the title no matter what.
The ESRB is doing exactly what it should, and, to be honest, Rockstar is still going to benefit from it. Penny Arcade was right about just how disingenous the cries of innocence on the part of Rockstar really are. If ESRB didn't act, it would become irrelevant - and less voluntary measures would come into force.
I can't believe that no one realizes how Rockstar has had a win-win situation in all this all along.
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:the internet isn't the only distribution networ (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:America (Score:4, Insightful)
Censorship exists in the US, just in the guise of something else.
Re:People are still having sex (Score:1, Insightful)
Unwanted pregnancy.
Life-threatening STDs (HIV, Syphilis, etc)
The psychological effects
All these are things "wrong" with sex, no matter what your political/social/religous views. Depending on those views, there may or may not be MANY other things "wrong" with sex.
"there's nothing wrong with sex" is a pretty glib, and incorrect.
Re:In other news... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:People are still having sex (Score:3, Insightful)
Pollution
Noise
Oil
All these things are wrong with cars, therefore cars are bad and wrong, and any game containing them should be banned.
Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet (Score:3, Insightful)
you can't hold rockstar responsible for stuff they DIDNT put in the game.
now, if you're going to argue from the poitn of view that they MEANT for people to find and enable this content, i would please ask you to provide some shred of evidence towards this. considering you're the one making the accusation, the onus IS on you to provide the proof. i would remind you that this is only going to HURT sales of the game, get it pulled from shelves, and probably end with them dragged before some federal commission and tighter government regulations all around. simply saying "well it's OBVIOUS they wanted it to be found!" isn't going to convince me.
Re:People are still having sex (Score:5, Insightful)
No, even with movies the difference between R and NC-17 is a lot larger. For those that may not know, any parent can take their 6 year old kid into an R-rated movie at the theater. But if a movie is rated NC-17, children CANNOT attend, even with parents present. This is the reason that most theaters will not take up screenspace with NC-17 movies...the market is a lot smaller, because parents are unable to make the decision for themselves.
A parent can, however, choose to buy an AO rated game for their kids.
If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.
Especially because last week the game was already rated M, and recommended only for age 17 and up. Unless I'm mistaken, a large portion of American teenagers age 17 and up have already had sex. It's the stupid-ass parents who didn't understand what an M rating meant and bought it for their 12 year olds that are getting so upset. And I say screw those idiots.
Re:Note the late date of it as well (Score:2, Insightful)
maybe they just forgot to remove it? I have seen a couple of games that do that - on the FarCry disks there is a random text/ini file of some description that only contains "remove this file before production" within it. Likewise, the PC release of Deus Ex: Invisible War contains a file showing the control mappings for the X-Box controller.
just because it is a commercial release product doesn't mean the company isn't too lazy to check it for faults. Maybe the Hot Coffee project was abandoned, then forgotten about, so no-one thought about taking the code out before release. Its all possible.