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Hot Coffee Cooling Off 559

Posted by Zonk
from the can-i-get-back-to-kirby-please dept.
The storm of media and cynicism that was "Hot Coffee" is, thankfully, coming to an end. To wrap things up, reactions were mixed to the re-rating of GTA. Some thought it too much, some too little too late. With the removal of the M rating, ESRB president Patricia Vance considers the matter closed. Even those in the industry itself seem glad that it's over, though the folks quoted for the 1up story seem cynical about the whole thing. "[Rockstar] TOTALLY screwed the modding community, as far as I am concerned. Because they could have just removed the content. They tried to get cute and leave it in. In my experience that sort of thing is always deliberate. Anyway, the point is that most game developers are recalcitrant and immature jerks. When mom tells us we can't do something, we're sure as hell going to do it. If you get my meaning. I think 'mom' in this case was the ESRB." As a sidenote, stock in Take-Two Entertainment dropped by almost five percent at close of market today, on the news that even Gamestop is dumping the now AO-rated GTA title.
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Hot Coffee Cooling Off

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  • Tshirt Already? (Score:5, Informative)

    by ack154 (591432) * on Friday July 22, 2005 @09:45AM (#13134597)
    And as a keepsake for all of the madness... be sure to pick up your very own Hot Coffee [thinkgeek.com] t-shirt from ThinkGeek!

    As soon as they're actually in stock, that is.
  • While supplies last (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday July 22, 2005 @09:46AM (#13134599)
    Get it while you still can. [amazon.com]

    This game is going to be a mark in gaming history...
  • Even Gamestop? (Score:3, Informative)

    by sqlrob (173498) on Friday July 22, 2005 @09:47AM (#13134613)
    I tried to get it there the day the rating changed. Nope, no way, not on any of the platforms, they don't sell AO.

    And they still had the "San Andreas: Get It Here!" display up too.

    So they were one of the *first* to can it, no "even GameStop" about it, they were the leaders of the pack.
  • by Rasta Prefect (250915) on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:12AM (#13134837)
    On the one hand, in the USA, you can easily buy a rifle or a machine-gun with ammunitions.

    Uhhh...No. A rifle? Yes. A machine gun? You can get one, provided a clear criminal record, but it's not exactly easy.

  • Re:"True" Fallout (Score:3, Informative)

    by themishkin (898361) <themishkin AT gmail DOT com> on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:12AM (#13134846)
    I was going to buy this game in the end of August before college started up again. Instead, I'm going to go buy it today after work, not because I actually want the "Hot Coffee" mod, but I don't want a shitty version of the game. I have no idea how far Rockstar will go in "changing" the original release, and I prefer my games uncensored. As far as the AO stuff goes, I think the shower scene at the end of Tomb Raider 2 was much more enjoyable than this GTA:SA clip. (for those of you who finished the game without cheats) And, the graphics were about the same between these two games =D
  • Re:I hate America (Score:4, Informative)

    by DLWormwood (154934) <wormwood@@@me...com> on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:43AM (#13135157) Homepage
    I can't see how sex is more evil than violence. Think of the utopia they want to have... apocalypse?

    The Biblical Book Of Revelations (aka "Apocalypse" in ancient languages) was written to describe the "end times" that Christians believe will happen that will finally wipe the Earth clean of evil. It is a very violent book, filled with surreal images of carnage and suffering, but very little sexual content. (It's almost the polar opposite of Song Of Solomon in that regard.) Christian culture (which the U.S. is heavily influenced by) has always regarded violence as a path of virture and sex as a path to damnation. (The whole "thou shalt not kill" business was a mistranslation of the original Hebrew; it refers to murder, not military warfare.)

    Given that many of the more Evangelical types of Christian are now political savvy and powerful in post-Cold War American, it's little wonder that our culture is starting to "self-fulfill" the prophesies in the book. America's constant strife with Middle Eastern countries (and backing of Isreal) is inline with the "Battle Of Megido" depicted in that book. Most of the Fundamentalists in this country are expecting the "Rapture" to happen in their lifetime. I know; I used to be one growing up...

  • Free speech, eh? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Mr. Underbridge (666784) on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:50AM (#13135220)
    On the other hand you can't see consensual sex in a video game ? Urrr.

    Yes you can. I, as an old man, have the same right to go buy it now as I did before. Seriously, the big deal is that now you have to be 18 to buy it and not 17? Wow, that's terrible!

    On the other hand, in Europe, many kinds of speech that aren't "correct" are banned. Now who has a free speech problem?

  • Re:It's about time! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (895364) on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:52AM (#13135234)
    "and one doctor who's name escapes me"

    Fredric Wertham. He did convert (if that's the right word) before his death, though. He saw that he wasn't right in all cases.
  • by operagost (62405) on Friday July 22, 2005 @10:56AM (#13135278) Homepage Journal
    On the one hand, in the USA, you can easily buy a rifle or a machine-gun with ammunitions [sic].
    Oh really? Try to do that in, say, the state of New Jersey. Let me know how you do. In fact, just try to buy any kind of "machine-gun" anywhere. I assume you mean a full-auto capable rifle. There's a federal statute which has made that very hard since the days of the Tommy-gun.

    On the other hand, in more libertarian states like Pennsylvania you CAN easily buy a long gun (or even a handgun) in a shop and walk out with it. Problem is, there's this pesky computerized background check that's pretty well assured of finding your weapons-related assault conviction and denying the sale.

  • by fallen1 (230220) on Friday July 22, 2005 @11:05AM (#13135383) Homepage
    but your statement is only partially correct. Yes, we can go out and buy a rifle fairly easily but Americans cannot go out and _legally_ buy a machine-gun (a fully automatic weapon) without a lot of background checks, a class III Federal Firearms License/permit (I believe I have the right one), and paying a fee per year to own said weapon. Plus, I believe with the license/permit it goes that if someone uses a machine-gun weapon in a crime in your area the police/FBI/etc can drop by your house and ask to check your weapon plus they have the ballistics on file as well. So the notion that Americans all own Uzis, M-16s, and other fully automatic weapons is highly overblown. Yes, there are a LOT of these style weapons in private citizens hands but according to FBI statistics, less than 1% of ALL privately-owned fully automatic weapons have ever been used in the comission of a crime. Please reread that - less than 1%. That means that 99% of the crimes that are committed with fully automatic weapons are done so with illegally obtained weapons. Hence my statement to everyone who talks about gun control and removing guns from private citizens hands - "When the police/FBI/etc. can make criminals follow the law, I'll consider giving up my gun. Until a criminal, who BY DEFINITION doesn't follow the law anyway, give up his guns I will not give up mine." I mean, why should I _not_ have the same degree of latitude to defend myself as the criminal has to attack me?

    As far as the consensual sex in a video game, yeah, I think American prudish behavior is completely fucked - pun intended :)
  • Re:It's about time! (Score:2, Informative)

    by justin12345 (846440) on Friday July 22, 2005 @11:08AM (#13135423)
    I was actually thinking of a sticker under the shrink wrap, but it hardly matters...

    Retailers are not supposed to sell M or AO games to kids. The switch to AO is largely symbolic. In practical terms the only thing it will effect is which retailers will carry the game. Wal*mart for instance will not. Neither will a number of other retailers, including Game Stop (as pointed out above).
  • Re:It's about time! (Score:3, Informative)

    by zoney_ie (740061) on Friday July 22, 2005 @11:18AM (#13135542)
    Hey, the problem does exist, and isn't even just one of selling to those underage for the title.

    Here in my city in Ireland, one of the major toy stores (which sells computer games) stocked GTA:SA. Well, they didn't sell to those underage - they didn't have to. The kids' parents were buying it for them.

    And it gets worse. The counter assistents were under orders to tell the parents just how graphic the game was (in language, violence, etc.) without pulling the punches. Well, the parents were taken aback and shocked apparently, but most bought it all the same, saying "ah sure, all his friends will have it".

    People aren't interested in rearing kids properly anymore. They probably shouldn't have kids, and only do so out of selfishness (wanting to hear the pitter-patter of feet, etc., etc.).

    Kids not being reared properly is the single reason our society will continue in its decadent downward spiral.

    ----

    On a more related note, I do find it strange that in the US, mere sex scenes bring the game up to an 18s rating, while the graphic violence, gritty theme, and appalling language do not.
  • by nra1871 (836627) on Friday July 22, 2005 @11:19AM (#13135550)
    "assault weapons" as defined in the ban are NOT machine guns. They are semi-automatic (meaning ONE bullet fires with each pull of the trigger). They are defined as assault weapons because they have a folding stock, or a bayonet holder, etc. Bascially things that make them look scary. It bears repeating, since people just don't get it, that these are NOT machine guns.
  • Re:I hate America (Score:3, Informative)

    by John Harrison (223649) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .nosirrahnhoj.> on Friday July 22, 2005 @12:16PM (#13136169) Homepage Journal
    The Biblical Book Of Revelations

    This is a nit that I must pick. The name of the book is singular, not plural.

  • Re:I hate America (Score:2, Informative)

    by WonderChef (901894) on Friday July 22, 2005 @01:03PM (#13136619)
    Regarding sex:

    Sex is not "a path to damnation" in Christianity; as the primal creative act, it is beautiful and sacred, our imitation of the Creator. It is an act with a goal and a consequence, and taken outside of that context (producing a child, not just enjoying ourselves without consequence) can have disastrous effects upon the father, mother, and child. Yes, there are single fathers and mothers who manage to get through their lives. I'm not going to say that they are poor parents. But I'm sure we all know people that had an "accident" that resulted in their lives becoming pretty difficult. Wouldn't it have been better if that child was born when the parents were certain of their love, and in an appropriate financial situation to support a family?

    In mentioning the Song of Solomon, you see how sex isn't a path to damnation. When Mary Magdalene washed Jesus' feet with her tears and hair, that was nearly a sexual act in the context of their society at the time. Yet He says to her that her sins are forgiven, that her faith has saved her, to go in peace.

    Sex is given to us as a gift to rejoice in, that we might find one whom we truly love and create with them as God created us out of love; what is not supported is the viewing of sex as something for our own ephemeral pleasure, devoid of its true context and ramifications. And this is not to say that sex cannot be pleasant! Just that we must be mindful of what exactly we are doing, what it means and why this gift was given to us.

    It is unfortunate that the Western traditions of Christianity developed such an attitude of guilt regarding sex. To understand that we are sinners, that we miss the mark (the meaning of sin in Greek), and to comprehend that in the context of God's love and forgiveness for us results in humility. Guilt, however, is concerned with a person looking at their stature amongst others. It is about judging oneself and one's neighbor, saying, "Not even God is big enough to forgive me." Guilt seeks the love of men, not God, and deny's God's forgiveness. Approaching the gift of human sexuality with an attitude of fear and guilt is just as dangerous as having wanton sex!

    Regarding violence:

    Turn the other cheek, judge not lest ye be judged, love thy neighbor as thyself, do unto others as you would have them do unto you; as I have loved you, love one another--by this will all men know ye are My disciples. Forgiving up to seventy times seventy. Confessing our sins to one another, asking forgiveness of one another, and forgiving one another as the Father forgives his Prodigal Son. All the sufferings of Christ and the Apostles and the Martyrs, borne with patience in renunciation of this world's ways. Healing the man whose ear was cut off, a man who came to take Jesus to his death. Where is violence seen as virtue in these essential sayings?

    Yes, people die in Revelations. Bad things happen. But in this world of choice, of physical matter, not all states of matter are pleasing. In a world of causality, all our actions have have consequences, and we will reap what we sow. And we cannot see the chain of causality, that incomprehensible spider web of order in chaos as all our actions come to full manifestation, in very real carnage and suffering. We can choose our ego, thinking that we know what is best for us in love of self and ephemeral pleasure, or we can choose to submit ourselves to God's will, that our Father in Heaven knows what we require to bring us to glory. God became man that man might become like God, and it is our choice to decide whether that is what we desire or not.

    Christ teaches us how to bring the Kingdom of Heaven down to Earth, into the interior of our heart (the Kingdom of Heaven is within you), to transcend suffering -- even rejoice in it -- and bear our crosses on a pilgrimage, forgiving those who mock us, spit at us, even kill us: as Christ forgave those who did the same to him. Not to escape away in a rapture, but to bear persecutions and sufferings as the Martyrs did, that i

Computers are unreliable, but humans are even more unreliable. Any system which depends on human reliability is unreliable. -- Gilb

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