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Nintendo Businesses GameCube (Games)

Miyamoto Says Wind Waker Was Boring 143

Posted by Zonk from the i-liked-it dept.
Eurogamer has a talk with Shigeru Miyamoto, maker of the Legend of Zelda series, where he reveals frustrations with The Wind Waker. From the article: "At the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete...I apologise that we didn't fix the triforce hunt at the end of the game. It was slow and dull." Seems like designers slagging their old games is a growing trend.
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Miyamoto Says Wind Waker Was Boring

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  • In his own words, "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever."

    • Re:Ironic that he forced it through production (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Yeah, I'm SO glad they waited onm Daikatana until it was perfect! And Duke Nukem Forever is going to be awesome!
    • What I find even more annoying is that he said the same thing about Super Mario Sunshine, which started out as easily the best Mario title, and was on it's way to being one of the best video games of all time, when you suddenly realise it's not actually complete and less half the way through they ran out of time to complete it and instead stuffed it with stupidly difficult jumping puzzle levels (which should have been left in, but purely as bonus levels) just to drag it out.

      I was very disappointed, particul
      • By jumping puzzle levels, I'm assuming you mean the ones with the remix of the original SMB theme playing in the background. Those levels were the best part of the game. They felt like the old 2D Mario games.

        The problems with Mario Sunshine came down to two things:

        1) The various coin hunts made up something like 1/3 of the shines in the game.

        2) By placing the game on a vacation island, they really limited what options they had for level design. The levels weren't nearly as varied as in Mario 64.
        • By jumping puzzle levels, I'm assuming you mean the ones with the remix of the original SMB theme playing in the background. Those levels were the best part of the game. They felt like the old 2D Mario games.

          I'm thinking of the supposedly 'bonus' levels, where the camera constantly moves around you in a largely uncontrollable way (usually in such a way you couldn't see what Mario was doing) and you are on a precarious moving platform trying to collect Shine's and avoid falling to your death in order to proc
        • True that. The jumping levels were AWESOME in my opinion. At least I found them the most fun to play. Everything else just felt like I was constantly fighting against annoying camera angles.
      • stuffed it with stupidly difficult jumping puzzle levels (which should have been left in, but purely as bonus levels) just to drag it out.

        Difficult jumping puzzles are a big part of the reason I play Mario games. It is good they were there. They should not merely be a "bonus". I bet you hate Mega Man too.
  • Who exactly is controlling the schedule of Miyamoto? I can't imagine he's being bossed around on a timetable, he's kind of important...what forced him to end dev at a certain time? It's not like Nintendo is big on fast release schedules *cough*metroid skipping an entire console generation*cough*

    • Re:Deadlines? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by YodaToad ( 164273 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @02:59PM (#13178664)
      You just answered your own question. The people that were waiting for the game controlled his timetable.

      It's funny how when developers wait to get something right and people complain about it taking forever and then when they release it early people complain about patches and things not being finished.
      • You are quite right, and should be modded insightful. However, this phenomenon is not unique to software.
      • It's funny how when developers wait to get something right and people complain about it taking forever and then when they release it early people complain about patches and things not being finished.

        People like to complain, and their complaints about how long a game is taking to develop only means that they really, really want to play it. All of these complaints are also fleeting, and will be conveniently forgotten if the game is good when it finally ends up in their hands. Is there still a public outcry

    • Re:Deadlines? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by edwdig ( 47888 )
      Metroid skipping a generation had nothing to do with slow schedules. Metroid's sales are far better in the US than in Japan. Being as Japan-centric as Nintendo is, they simply looked at the Japanese market and decided there wasn't much demand for a new Metroid game. They only decided to release it after being pestered repeatedly for it by people in the US for several years.
      • Not to mention the Metroid Prime games were made by an American company, and were released in the US first.
      • They only decided to release it after being pestered repeatedly for it by people in the US for several years.
        And even then they had an American studio do it. Fortunately Retro Studios did an awesome job on it, and the rest is history.

        I wonder why the Metroid games never "took off" in Japan. They really are quite awesome.

    • Re:Deadlines? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Spleener12 ( 587422 )
      Actually, it was Aonuma who was primarily in charge of the game (he's also the guy behind Majora's Mask), and as Mr. Rossel-Waugh [insertcredit.com] says, if it was one of Miyamoto's pet projects, perhaps it would have been pushed back as long as necessary.
  • I think my brain just exploded.

  • Actually (Score:5, Informative)

    by aztektum ( 170569 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @02:34PM (#13178389)
    Eiji Aonuma said it was "dull", and that was in reference to the Triforce hunt late in the game. Miyamoto only said that he's heard the complaints and they're working to make Twilight Princess the Zelda game everyone wants it to be.
    • I kind of lost interest during the triforce hunt and never ended up finishing the game. I really did enjoy the rest of the game though. I guess I'm not the only one that got bored.
      • Me too. Exact same thing, actually. Lots of fun, got to hunting triforces, and figured "this is boring. I'm going to play another game for a while." Never got back to it.

        Everyone says the last fight and ending are meh, anyway ;D

    • Re:Actually (Score:2, Informative)

      by dogbowl ( 75870 )
      And as I understand it, Nintendo reworked and slimmed down the triforce hunt for the North American release. A friend who played the Japanese version mentioned that the hunt at the end was even longer!

      • Re:Actually (Score:3, Informative)

        by Elranzer ( 851411 )
        Nope. I own both versions and the game is exactly the same in both languages, except the fact that they're in two different languages.

  • Main Zelda story lines aren't a concern... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by defkkon ( 712076 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @02:37PM (#13178418)
    The Zelda games have always had great storylines. Even Windwaker's was good (although I agree it wasn't quite up to Ocarina standards).

    I have to admit, I don't play the Zelda games for the storyline! What I love about the Zelda series is that there are so many side-quests to play with.

    What I loved was all the little islands that each had something to do. I also loved the towns, where there were little side stories to get involved in. There were people in love, the shop keeper, the auction house, the schoolhouse, etc, etc. Despite the "boring" storyline near the end of the game, there was plenty to do - and almost all of it was carried out brilliantly.

    This is why Majora's Mask is one of my favourite games ever. Despite the "weak" storyline, the sheer number of side quests made it an absolute blast to play. I worked 80% of my time to fill out my journal, especially figuring out the marriage side quest (which in itself could be a huge chunk of the game).

    • Personally, I play Zelda for the dungeons. I love going in, trying to find my way to the boss/items, the challenges and puzzles of the different rooms, and finally killing the boss. I don't really like or do many of the side quests, only those requied to get to the next dungeon, or which I blunder into. Oh, and the originality of some of the items and swapping weapons is cool too.

      My problems with Windwalker:

      1)Too few dungeons. There were what, 3 or 4? 5?
      2)The sea was too large, and the actual land too
      • There were 8 dungeons and 2 mini-dungeons, and Tower of the Gods was pretty long (if I remember correctly).

        Forsaken Fortress I*
        Dragon Roost Cavern
        Forbidden Woods
        Tower of the the Gods
        Forsaken Fortress II
        Fire Mountain**
        Ice Ring Isle**
        Earth Temple
        Wind Temple
        Ganon's Tower

        *no boss - but you were reclaiming your sword
        **mini-dungeon - you need the items here

      • Re:Main Zelda story lines aren't a concern... (Score:4, Insightful)

        by defkkon ( 712076 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @03:34PM (#13179024)
        Its funny you mention that the sea was so large, with not enough land.

        From my viewpoint, as a person who does every and all side-quests, the sea was the best part. There were treasure chests the pull up from the bottom of the ocean. There were the phases of the moon to worry about, which spawned a ghost ship. There were TONS of treasure maps, enemy maps, island maps, etc. There were hints all over the land as to what you would find in the water - such as massive octorochs and ship battles.

        If you're someone who only looks on land for the dungeons, then I can see your point. For someone like me, who explores every nook and cranny, this game was great for me.

      • I agree with most if not all of that, and this is basically what the article is - Aonuma admitting these shortcomings. However, I'll say this - the design of the dungeons in Wind Waker was absolutely fantastic. Ocarina was a better game, but Jabu Jabu's Belly & The Water Temple were incredibly frustrating experiences.
        • Heh, my opinion is almost opposite. I loved Jabu-Jabu and the water temple, despite their difficulty. They were complicated, but they were intricately designed and felt far more coherent than any of WW's dungeons. The varying water level in the water temple was one of the most interesting mechanics in any Zelda dungeon (at least until MM's awesome water dungeon).

          Wind Waker's dungeons, by contrast, felt very linear and contrived to me. Take the last dungeon, for example. First you predictably fight every
    • I agree about Zelda storylines, but disagree about Wind Waker -- it had an absolutely killer "reveal," where the Big Secret of the game is shown to the player. I don't think I can name a game that did that better. And the final sequences in the game were awesome.

  • Blah (Score:2)

    by Momoru ( 837801 )
    I thought Windwaker was one of the best zelda games yet, its extremely fun to play, and even just sailing around in the Windwaker world was fun. A lot of people saw cartoony graphics and got turned off, but really once I started playing, the cartoony graphics made it seem more like the original zelda's I loved so much. I'm actually kind of sad they are going back to the Ocarina of Time format.
    • I liked Wind Waker a lot, too. Link controlled smoothly; I thought the story was good. I even liked sailing. The world felt large and alive.

      I've never even finished Ocarina of Time. I've never been beyond the Fire Temple. I just can't control Link quite right. Well-received as it was, I don't think the N64 was quite the right time to move Zelda into three dimensions.
    • I do welcome the Twilight Princess game, but I'd like to see them make another game with the Wind Waker style graphics. They need to take it as a land-based game, not water. The part where you visit Hyrule castle and you can look around and see Hyrule in WW style graphics... they need to make a whole game based on that. Perhaps a remake of Zelda 2 ?
      • I do welcome the Twilight Princess game, but I'd like to see them make another game with the Wind Waker style graphics.

        What if they went further and made it with a grittier, more detailed style? Picture a bad-ass adult Link drawn with as much detail as a character from Akira or Ghost in the Shell. That would make my day.
  • There were a few gripes that I had with the game, but overall it was a pretty good game. Sailing around in the boat got old after awhile, and the stealth element of the game was rather lame and pointless IMHO.

    The important thing is that he's apparently learned from this so that it doesn't happen again. Considering that the Revolution (I think they decided to produce this for their next gen console instead of the GameCube, or at least it seems possible [wikipedia.org]) probably won't be released until around this time nex

  • This Always Happens (Score:3, Interesting)

    by th1ckasabr1ck ( 752151 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @02:53PM (#13178599)
    Working in game development can be frusterating this way. The limiting factor for EVERY game is ALWAYS time. Unless you're id Software and can say "It's done when it's done", time is your #1 enemy. It's possible that Zelda is/was in a situation comparable to Id, but I think they really needed to get that game done when they did in order to try to move some Gamecubes.

    In the past there have been countless things that I would have loved to have coded into game X but just didn't have time. From the publisher's point of view: Adding this neat little feature isn't going to sell any more copies, so just fix these crash bugs and let's ship it. The bigger the publisher the worse you see this. Sad but true.

    Also I agree that Windwaker was boring. It got cut a lot of slack just because it was a Zelda game. Anytime I actually put down the controller to wait for my guy to get where he's going in a game is a bad sign. The dungeons were cool in Windwaker, but the rest of the game was dull.

    All the little sidequests I found resulted in more and more rupees. My bag was always maxed out and I had no idea what to spend them on anyways. Wow a 500 rupee reward! Sounds great right? Well I get 0 of those because my bag is already full.

    The actual dungeons were fun enough, I really wish there were more of them. The sailing was incredibly tedious and the triforce quest was the most tedious task I've had in a game for quite some while.

    Hopefully Twilight Princess is more focused than Windwaker was.

    • Also I agree that Windwaker was boring. It got cut a lot of slack just because it was a Zelda game.

      It was cut some slack because it was a Zelda game? I think it's just the opposite, it was scrutinized more because it was a Zelda game, it had a standard to live up that was set by what many consider the best games there are. If Wind Waker had been released by a different developer and without the Zelda property, it would've been hailed as a masterpiece. But because it was a Nintendo game, and especially bec

    • Time is the #1 enemy of an id Software too. Even though they don't have the publisher controlling them, they still have to deal with the reality that, if you take 4 years to develop a game, then the stuff you first worked on is 4 years old when the game's finished. The longer you take, the further back on the curve the stuff you've already done is.

  • I didn't mind the triforce hunt. I suppose I was already used to sailing around and dredging things up out of the ocean. My biggest concern was that there weren't enough dungeons. I hear that there were going to be two more, but they had to push the game out the door. I would have preferred a later release with more stuff, but then again I'm the kind of person who waits a year after release to get the game at a cheaper price anyway.
    • "I didn't mind the triforce hunt."

      Neither did I, but the Triforce hunt that most of us outside Japan saw isn't the way it was in the Japanese version. I've heard that there were twenty-some-odd pieces to find before it was changed for the North American and subsequent versions.

  • Slagging??? (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Seems like designers slagging their old games is a growing trend.

    1 entry found for slagging.
    slag n.
    1. The vitreous mass left as a residue by the smelting of metallic ore.
    2. See scoria.
    tr. & intr.v. slagged, slagging, slags
    To change into or form slag.
  • Everyone knows it. Windwaker was great. It's hard for a Zelda game not to be. However, there were not enough dungeons at all. And the triforce hunt was indeed boring.

    I hope Twilight Princess has lots of big dungeons. The dungeons are the best part of Zelda games.

  • Sooo boring... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by clu76 ( 620823 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @03:02PM (#13178697) Homepage
    ...that the day after I beat it, I played it again all the way through.

  • He's right, but it goes beyond Wind Waker (Score:5, Insightful)

    by agent oranje ( 169160 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @03:04PM (#13178723) Journal
    The end of The Wind Waker was boring as all hell - I stopped playing halfway through the triforce hunt, and haven't picked it up since. That's unfortunate, because the game was quite excellent. I prefer cartoon-Link to "realistic" Link, and The Wind Waker is the first, and likely only, 3D Zelda I will ever appreciate. Just to rephrase that slightly, my favorite 3D Zelda is the one Miyamoto is poo-pooing on for being boring - yet it's the least boring of the bunch thus far.

    As for the trend of developers trashing on their old games, I'm just glad that developers are finally realizing that many of the games in the recent past have been complete shit. The Wind Waker is probably my favorite 3rd person 3D game to ever be created - yet, I agree that it gets insanely dull. I've been itching for a new game or two, as I haven't bought any in quite some time, but I can't find a single game for any of the three consoles that I really want to play. Virtually all 3D games are the same - you run, you jump, you fight, and you collect cleverly hidden things that let you advance. About 90% of the games that have come out on consoles in the past several years are damned Tomb Raider clones, and I didn't like that game to begin with.

    What am I playing to get my gaming fix? Currently, I'm playing Super Mario All-Stars, Super Metriod, and Zelda III: A Link to the Past. All are about 10-years old, all are completely dated in terms of graphics and gameplay, and I've beaten all of them several times. Yet, these games are far more fun, and far more interesting, than any of the garbage gaming companies are spewing out today.

    Nintendo's money-makers have been Mario, Zelda, and Metroid - their 3D counterparts have not impressed me in the slightest. Mario and Zelda fit the run, jump, and fight cookie-cutter 3rd person game, and Metriod is now Yet Another First Person Shooter(tm). The rise of 3D graphics has basically taken all creativity out of gameplay - you have a 3D world, you do stuff in it. Without any limitations, all of the games kind of blend together... and, well, they pretty much all suck.

    If Nintendo made modern games based on their old 2D counterparts, they'd probably be the #1 console within a year. Just imagine a side-scrolling Metriod with modern graphics, and absolutely huge worlds to explore. Or, a Mario game or Zelda game along the same lines. Sounds good, doesn't it? Right now, Nintando is struggling to produce more 3D crap to compete with the rest of the 3D crap... I wish they would wake up, and make the games that made Nintendo the best.
    • If you want to see 3-D done right, and you like a platformer ever now and then, try one of the Sly Cooper games. They both control extremely well, and they're both very fun. Sly 1 can be had for $20 (greatest hits). The only con I can really think of is that the first game is a bit on the short side.
      • Sly 2 was a fantastic example of a 3D platformer done properly, but I can't help but agree that the majority of games development these days is a mad race to create the best graphics. By going down the cell-shaded route I think Windwaker stepped aside from the graphics race and gave them the time to make a better title instead of ultra-detailed models and scenery.

        The best RPGs I have played recently were Golden Sun 1 and Golden Sun 2, the restrictions of the GBA are a blessing and gave us those gorgeous cla
      • Also, the new Spyro: A Dragon's Tale is excellent.

    • Why aren't you playing Game Boy Advance? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DoctaWatson ( 38667 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @03:40PM (#13179078)
      Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap for the GBA is an absolutely wonderful example of classic gameplay systems with modern production values. If you like A Link to the Past, I highly reccomend it. There are also an abundance of side scrolling games from the Mario, Mega Man, and Castlevania series.

      I completely disagree with your trashing of all 3d games. Mario 64 and the two Zelda games on the N64 stand as three of the best games of all time, an opinion I share with a great majority of the gaming community. To claim that these games are all just clones of Tomb Raider is... just inconcievable.

      You're about seven years too late to start complaining about the ubiquity of 3d games.
      • I completely disagree with your trashing of all 3d games. Mario 64 and the two Zelda games on the N64 stand as three of the best games of all time, an opinion I share with a great majority of the gaming community. To claim that these games are all just clones of Tomb Raider is... just inconcievable.

        Same thing for Metroid Prime. I'm a huge fan of the original 2d metroid games, and MP completely and utterly nails the feel of those games. It's an incredible game (MP2 is great as well), and more than worthy as the current bearer of the metroid standard.

        To claim that it's "just another FPS" is simply bizarre.
    • ...run, jump, and fight cookie-cutter 3rd person game...

      And exactly, how is this different from the standard 2d "run, jump, and fight cookie-cutter" games? Technically, both generes change it up a bit occasioanlly, the fighting changes the way it's done, or the character uses a bionic arm insted of jumping, but it's really stil the same thing. When you get right down to it, there aren't that many different things you can actually do in a game. It's all once form, or another, of:
      • Interact with environ
      • "I've not played Super Mario:Allstars, so I'll leave that one alone, but honsetly take a good look at it, you'll probably find that it fits the same mold you are complaning about, just in 2d."

        You're right; it is. Probably even moreso, since there's no real "fighting", just running and jumping. (Super Mario All-Stars is a compilation of the first three NES Mario games, by the way.)

        I agree with you completely; sticking to that mold doesn't make it a bad game, as the GP implied. Like you said, nearly eve
    • I'm afraid I must disagree with you over Metroid Prime. Yes it's shown from the first person perspective, and yes you have a gun to shoot with, but it is not a first person shooter. In my humble opinion it's much more an adventure game than a shooter, and one of th best gamecube games.

    • The end of The Wind Waker was boring as all hell - I stopped playing halfway through the triforce hunt, and haven't picked it up since. That's unfortunate, because the game was quite excellent.

      You didn't miss much. All you do after the triforce hunt is fight a dozen weak enemies, the same 4 dungeon bosses, and then the easiest, weakest, most pathetic Ganon yet. I got so tired of collection those miserable pieces of heart that after 12 heart containers I said, "Screw this crap, I'm just going to beat the d

    • The gameplay in Zelda III: A Link to the Past is just as 3D as any of the 64 and Gamecube Zeldas... The viewpoint is just fixed. The overworld, and especially the dungeons have multiple levels. In the fully 3D Zelda games, you don't even control the third dimention directly (jumping). The only real big difference between the "2d" and "3d" Zeldas is that some items that use a first person point of view.

  • Let me skip cut scenes (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kraagenskul ( 828606 ) on Wednesday July 27, 2005 @03:11PM (#13178779)
    My biggest complaint about Wind Waker was the wind changing cut scene. It was cool maybe twice and then just annoying, and then I had to watch it roughly a thousand times before I beat the game. Majora's Mask let me skip through the mask changes if I so desired, why couldn't I skip the wind changes. Why do any games do this? If I don't want to watch the cutscene, I should be able to press a button to bypass it. In Lego Star Wars(a great game), the pod race level had a cut scene where Sebulba knocks another racer into a column... that I had to watch everytime I failed to complete that section of the race. And when you are trying to complete the race with a 4 year old racing along with you, that guy died at least 50 times before I finally told my son to drop out for a minute. Why not let me press a button to bypass? One of the Medal of Honor games had an insane cut scene that I had to watch everytime I died. I realize graphic artists put a lot of time into some of these cutscenes and like to show off their skills and the "Wow!" factor of what they can do. But sometimes I want to just play the damn game.
    • EA GAMES!!!

      CHALLENGE EVERYTHING!!!


      ...

      Slashdot.org

      ...

      Digital Vomit Studios
      ...

      Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I'm sick of the unskippable video clips at the beginning of games, too.
    • You're not the only one to get frustrated by the Lego Star Wars pod race level. Two player racing is akin to synchronized swimming. It's not easy for an adult and a small child to pull off, let alone two kids.
    • Amen to that. I would add to the complaint list the overly long battle animations in some games. The first time I do something, the animation is usually cool, the second and third time, ok it's nice. After that it starts getting old. It would be nice if those things would compress automatically with use. E.g. you get the full effect a few times, afterwhich it gets cut short, after a few more times, it becomes little more than a blip.

    • A lot of games use cutscenes to load content, especially on the Gamecube. Metroid Prime (1 & 2) and Resident Evil 4 come to mind immediately.
      • Yes, the cutscenes in the Metroids were necessary and reasonably short, but Wind Waker has no content that needs to be loaded between wind direction changes. The wind just starts blowing in a new direction. That's all.
      • You can skip nearly every cutscene in prime 2 and re4. The only ones you can't in prime 2 are elevators & portals which are loading. I can't think of anything in re4.

        Prime 1 on the other hand, just had a bunch of needlessly unskippable cutscenes. In Wind Waker you can't skip anything... which is my biggest complaint about the game, or just about any game that pulls that crap.
      • The ORIGINAL Metroid for the Famicom Disk System also used the elevators to load content.
    • Some of those unskippable cut scenes are used to disguise loading.
  • "At the end of the production we fought against the clock and there were parts that I was forced to approve even though it didn't feel complete..."

    I hope Blizz will confess to the same thing about WoW once its expansion is released.

    I think this happens to most large video game companies with popular products. They have a reputation to live up to. The small ones, on the other hand, have a smaller mouth to feed and won't hear much gripe if their games are delayed. One exception is ValvE, they delayed
    • That's so true. HL2 was a really complete-feeling game; you weren't left with the idea that they cut corners. It was about as beautiful as any game I've played (well, Far Cry might have had better graphics, but...) and the gameplay was fun and bugfree. If only more games could be more like HL2. Also, although it came out a while ago, Final Fantasy VII was another example of a game that did it right.
  • Even though a self-described "boring" game, it still ended up on most websites' top 10 lists, and was chosen game of the year by others. That guy has the highest of standards.
    Don't believe me? Read the reviews from Metacritic. [metacritic.com]
  • I find that alot of the button pressing challenge has been lost in zelda games. Zelda 1 and 2 were very difficult games to pass. Link to the past was more puzzle oriented, but still had many difficult areas to pass. Full 3D immersion in Ocarina made the game sooooo easy to play; it was more or less just a puzzle game. There was never an occurance where I lost all my life. The water level was utterly boring. Although I havent played windwaker, the claims of boredom lead me to believe that Nintendo has for
    • I was never able to beat Zelda II as a child, but with my honed fps/platformer/rpg skills I decided to revisit it and found it laughably easy. It's not "that difficult of a game", certainly not by today's standards at any rate. However,I realize it's unfair to compare Zelda II to the X-Box Ninja Gaiden so let's compare apples with apples and look at the nes Ninja Gaiden. Which is harder? NG, and by far. You want to be genuinely challenged and die a lot? Play fighter plane shoot-em-ups like Graedius, R-Typ
    • In other words, you were buying Zelda hoping that it'd be Gauntlet.

  • But (Score:1)

    by jolande ( 852630 )
    Shouldn't this be the type of thing he tells me before I buy the game?
  • If you are known for producing a great game then produce a sub par game THAT hurts you. Look at the Final Fantasy Series. It use to be the big name for RPG games. but the resent release of Final Fantasy X-2 really tanked them. Bizzard is known for taking there time with games and 90% of the time its worth the wait. If you make it GOOD they will Wait and will BUY!!!

  • Hmmmm (Score:1)

    by Xud ( 901017 )
    There seems to be a growing trend with dev's apologizing that thier games suck (I.E: Peter Monolioux)

    It's hard to tell who to balme nowadays, the Dev or the publisher.
  • If you ask me, Wind Waker was a damn good game, and if anything, less dull than, say, Ocarina of Time. I just seemed a lot more. . . spacious, not just the ocean mind you, but the dungeons and towns also seemed bigger, even if there weren't so many of either. Riding that Deku Leaf, hiding from guards, lots of good mini-games. Beautiful game.

    I'll accept the apology for the triforce treasure hunt though. *yawn*. And to tell the truth some of those side-islands could have been a little more involving. And do

  • Wind Walker should have been called Zelda: FedEx! I mean all you did was sail back and forth getting this piece of something for someone in order to deliver something to someone else all in the effort to collect 8 of something else so that you can get something for yourself to fight the final boss!

    Don't get me wrong, Wind Walker had a lot of novel and innovative ideas, but after about the 3rd cross world FedEx mission, it got a little dull quite quickly.

  • I've played Wind waker, and let me say that the "dull" part is only a small part of the game. It doesn't take more than 1 or 2 hour to do (of sailing), and during those 2 hours, there are a lot of small dungeons, the way Zelda uses to be. But just after that, when you get to the last castle, it was really great, and the last fight (Gannondorf), is, IMHO, the best "last boss fight" in all the zeldas!
  • Am I the only one who's not particularly pissed off at the triforce hunt? I spent more time on random miniquests that got me a peice of heart than I did collecting the triforce (Espically the photograph miniquests).
  • I played the WW all the way through, and came out thorougly dissatisfied.

    * Relatively few puzzles and easy boss fights marred the game. This is the biggest problem I had with WW. A game cannot be fun without being challenging.

    * Sailing the ocean was enjoyable at first, but became tedious very quickly.

    * The stealth bits in the game were just plain obnoxious.

    * The swordsmaster minigame where you had to land one thousand hits was equally terrible.

    Personally I liked the Ocarian of Time far more than this. Which
  • If slagging off old games is a new trend, then I am waiting for Hideo Kojima to apologise for Metal Gear Solid 2 Sons of Liberty. Okay, the tanker part was foine (but too short), but the oil platform? WTF?
  • I really liked the ocean in Wind Waker. I loved the idea of just sailing off into the middle of nowhere, and searching. I love Zelda, and this may sound weird, but I've never really like the Zelda dungeons, whith a few minor exceptions.
  • WW was the first Zelda I played with my daughter, who was not even born when Majorie's Mask was released. It wasn't as long or "indepth" as I remember OfT was, but was perfect for the understanding of my now 3 year old. For all the complaints of the cell shaded look, she loved it. One benefit was that the nastiest of bosses (mostly the first one) still looked comic-y enough that she could go to bed without nightmares about a giant whatever-that-thing-was hurting her.

    I think the story was beyond her (especia
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • All of this was pointed out years ago by some places [insertcredit.com]. Funny how time makes the obvious... obvious?
    • That review fucking sucks ass. It totally has this "I've read more books than you" attitude. It uses all these big words. Why can't the writer just say what he wants to say?

      I've read the first paragraph so far and I still have no idea what the writer is trying to say. I still have no idea what kind of game this game is supposed to be.

      Where are the screenshots?

      In closing, that site's layout fucking sucks. My eyes! My eyes are burning!!
  • Its a good thing that developers admit where they went wrong in the past. It shows that they've identified mistakes and won't make them again, it reassures the community that the company is full of real people and that they actually care about the gameplay and not just profits.

    Next up: Derek Smart! Admit it you bastard!!!

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