End of an Era For Zelda 133
Twilight Princess will represent the end of an era for Zelda games, according to Shigeru Miyamoto.From the Eurogamer article: "'This will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form,' Miyamoto is quoted as saying. He declined to reveal any more details as to how the series will be reborn, but did go on to assure fans that Twilight Princess will be absolutely aces: 'Our goal was to make the best Zelda game ever. The most rich, satisfying and [melancholic]. I worked on it personally, moreso than Wind Waker. I haven't invested as much into any game as I have this one,' Miyamoto said."
Next up: (Score:5, Funny)
Zelda Konga.
Zelda Golf.
Zelda Party!
Zelda Soccer.
Zelda Tennis.
Zelda Kart.
Dr. Zelda.
. . .
Re:Next up: (Score:1)
Re:Next up: (Score:2)
Re:Next up: (Score:2)
Possible Alternatives (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I don't think we'd outright see any games like that ever, even if there is a Mario Kart and Mario Golf. Instead I think there are a few different angles that Nintendo might be thinking of taking.
First up is the traditional RPG. Nintendo really hasn't had many of these on their console in the last few generations. The GameCube was an improvement over the N64, but considering the massive amounts of RPGs on the SNES and other current generation consoles like the PS2, Nintendo has fallen quite short of the mark in providing a plethora of worthwhile RPGs.
The Legend of Zelda universe would translate pretty well into an RPG. Turn based battles could be considered a real drag after the live action we're used to, but there are always the real time battles as found in the Star Ocean series and Tales of Symphonia. If anyone could make those feel perfect, I think it is Nintendo.
Another possibility is that the series really isn't undergoing a radical gameplay change or redesign but is instead changing other things around. The themes and characters may become more mature and feature voice acting that the other games in the series have lacked. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers out there who would appreciate a more mature based Legend of Zelda game with all the elements that other modern games have in them.
This could be conceived as radical and revolutionary because it's a complete departure from the "kiddy" style that Nintendo is often tagged with. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the main Zelda demographic is young children anymore. I think the game mechanics make it a little too complicated for anyone that young. The top down games of the past were pretty easy, but the 3D worlds of today require slightly more mastery.
Then again this could be a lot of talk to get the community stirred up about Nintendo and Zelda. Drop a line that a game a lot of people have grown up with and loved and the masses will go ballistic. This does seem a lot like a Nintendo PR grab. They tend to come out and talk about how they're going to revolutionize something or how radically different something is going to be instead of tossing out numbers on their console or how it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.
There're a lot of other possibilities, but my money is that the games will take on a much more mature (or at least a lot less childish) nature, transition into more of an RPG, or that this is just a PR media attention grab from Nintendo while they work out the details of what they're going to do later.
Re:Possible Alternatives (Score:1)
Re:Possible Alternatives (Score:3, Informative)
N64 / Super Smash Brothers: Link
Gamecube / Super Smash Brothers Melee: Link, Young Link, Princess Zelda / Sheik, Ganondorf (sans sword)
Just so you know
Re:Possible Alternatives (Score:1)
Oh god, please no voice acting [vgcats.com].
Hey!
Listen!
Aaarrrgggghhh!
Re:Next up: (Score:5, Funny)
No more Luigi!?! (Score:5, Funny)
No!!! I always had an odd affinity for Luigi. He just as skilled as Mario, but always gets shunted to the side. Like in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, it's kind of a joke that no one cares about Luigi. I'm gonna miss is little green overalls...
Re:No more Luigi!?! (Score:2)
Re:No more Luigi!?! (Score:2)
yoshi couldn't carry luigi's jockstrap!
Re:No more Luigi!?! (Score:2)
Re:No more Luigi!?! (Score:2)
It was most defiantly not just a kids games , perhaps for those a bit young at heart though
Luigi really could use another staring role
I defiantly thi
Re:"Definitely" (Score:2)
Plus it normally catches people out who expect a standard phrase like "Definitely one of the best *"
Unless of course you're just agreeing with me then cough*.
My only real error there was using it twice
Scary thought (Score:3, Funny)
Now that Link is collecting welfare checks..
Re:Scary thought (Score:2)
Spoiler (Score:3, Insightful)
It's the beginning of the Legend of Ganon.
Re:Spoiler (Score:1)
Re:Spoiler (Score:2)
Re:Spoiler (Score:2)
Re:Spoiler (Score:1)
Re:Spoiler (Score:2)
Ganon has two N's, not three (Score:2)
Enter a young boy by the name of Greg Gannondorf.
You might be GANNON-BANNED [gannon-banned.com] (first warning).
Back to Tetris? (Score:1)
Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:4, Interesting)
Though when Miyamoto San says that there will not be another Zelda game in its classic form it will most likely be far better.
He is the only game designer who always delivers a game that lives up to the hype .
It's rare in the industry to retain such a record , the only other designer who even comes close in my mind is Warren Spector.
I don't want to seem like a brainless fan-boy and if he ever does mess up i would have no hesitation saying so , but the fact remains he has not yet .
speculating on marios new sidekick
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems that WindWaker was supposed to carry that theme further, with the Triforce hunt being the grueling 7 dungeon crawl we know and love, and the duality of worlds being above and below water. We see a bit of that duality in the Tower of the Gods and Hyrule Castle, but nothing like LttP demonstrated.
The downside to that epic form is that it takes forever to get out the door. The first came out two years after the NES release, LttP was late, Ocarina was delayed several times, and WindWaker was cut short. Zelda clearly has a strong influence with the gamers, given the strong reactions to the infamous E3 trailer, the cel-shading annoucement of WW, and twilight's expectations to make good on that e3 trailer. As game machines get beefier, the work involved doesn't scale proportionately. Higher poly counts, higher texture qualities and more expansive game worlds crush any time saving benefits the newer machine might yield. They're likely retooling Zelda to something more likely to see release dates on time, and maybe even at release. I don't know if that makes it strictly "better" although it's likely to convice more people to play it and wind up liking/loving it, should it be released with the Revolution on day 1.
I'll miss the classic form, but I do realize that it's an epic form that not many people end up completing. I expect the newer form will be a shorter experience with less of a madlibs rigid game structure, while keeping the emphasis on a single player mode. I could be wrong on this; maybe they've found a way to make Four Swords fun with anonymous strangers on the internet. I know that the Zelda dungeon from SS:M was popular and sparked interest in a Zelda II revival, so that's a possibilty. Hopefully the change makes the franchise cheaper too, so they can use Zelda to push consoles like they can and need to.
What would be most innovative, though, is a Zelda subscription service. I've often said that Link is like the Natty Bumpo of video games; a romantic character who's stories aren't nessecarily internally consistant between them. WW picked up on this same idea (not that I'm saying I've inspired Miyamato somehow). It would be interesting to see an episodic Zelda on their Revolution networking service. Zelda: Wandering Era or something. You'd lose the RPGish aspects of Zelda that can consume people whole, but gain much more back in storytelling potential, ironically.
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:1)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Interesting)
not exactly what you meant
Wind waker was great
All together it was a great game
Link is defiantly a romantic character ( Sentimental romantic , not amorous) and a good iconic hero .
Though he is not the one to shift consoles to the masses
The Zelda games are there for the slightly more dedicated players
Honestly though , I don't mind waiting 6 years for a Zelda game (well i do moan about it
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
I can even hold both of these concepts in my head at once, but it requires that I thunk down to real mode....
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
I mean, of course a compelling way to prove a point is by example, but writing an essay is an attempt at persuasion. And it takes a lot more effort to make a good game, especially by today's standards, than to write an essay.
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
So, you're wish for a Zelda game having a grand conclusion, with the final end to the triforce struggle with might just be this game.
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:1)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:1)
Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:2)
Seriously though.. I wouldn't count those as Zelda games and they were not made or ever partially controlled by Miyamoto san
These abomination occurred due to the screwed up partnership with Philips and the ill fated CD add-on for the SNES (another side effect of that being the Playstation ) , the licensing deal for the new console included 2
Superman is Dead! (Score:3, Interesting)
"This isn't a ploy." He will be dead and buried, never to return. Superman has been with DC comics for decades, and his death will be a major turning point.
**Skip a month or 2 later**
Superman is back! Which one is he? Cyborg, young clone, black guy in a power suit, or energy-throwing guy with big glasses?
**Skip another month or 2 later **
FACE! The real superman has revealed himself. He never died, but was in stasis! Now he's fighting against the Cyborg to save the Earth.
I don't doubt that in a few years time we'll see another real Zelda game.
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2)
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:1)
Second guy says: There will be another Zelda game. But as he says, not in the same form as past Zelda games. You missed that part, I think.
Hey second guy, he was saying that he thinks they'll break down and make another standard Zelda game.
HTH. LTR.
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:1)
But we can't go back on our words!
It will be "Zelda begins". Really.
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:3, Interesting)
No I didn't. DC tried different things with Superman that ultimately failed. Eventually they gave up and went with regular Superman. That's what I foresee with Zelda. They'll try a couple of new "formulas" but in the end they'll go back the "young green-suit wearing guy has a destiny involving using a magical sword to save a youngh princess."
As with Superman, they decided to do away
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:1)
Frankly, I think the best thing would be to let Link & Zelda lie fallow for an entire game console generation or 2. That won't happen anytime soon but I like the thought. I have love all off them over the last 2 console cycles but keeping something
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2)
http://marioindahizzouse.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com]
can anyone confirm if that artwork is actually real or not? i don't know where the ytmnd creator got the image
(i do remember the rap as one of the cartoon themesongs though)
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2)
Both the Death storyline and the energy suit storyline were never intended to supplant the character entirely. They were just stunt stories to attract attention and drive sales. Whenever any comics company tinkers with a classic character like that, you can bet the status quo will be returned.
For a fascinatin
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Superman is Dead! (Score:2)
Yes! End of an era! (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Yes! End of an era! (Score:3, Funny)
Link.
Re:Yes! End of an era! (Score:1, Offtopic)
He's better than that (Score:1)
I'm sure he's aware of the fact that hardcore gamers don't like their most famous characters being abused, but he also is experienced enough to balance that with business needs.
He already has his business lapdogs, he doesn't need a third. This is will surely be a creative change.
Re:He's better than that (Score:2, Informative)
And Metroid. And F-Zero. And Starfox. And Pikmin. And Earthbound - sweet, sweet Earthbound...
Re:He's better than that (Score:5, Informative)
Metroid was Gunpei Yoko, and Earthbound was Shigesato Itoi. But hey, easy mistake. All Japanese people look the same.
Re:He's better than that (Score:1)
You guys pissed him off (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You guys pissed him off (Score:1)
Probably the greatest game designer, technician, coder - whatever you want to call him - of all-time decided that he'd take a new direction and new style with a series that he created.
The millions of Nintendo fan-boards fill up the next day with "WTF?! Miyamoto STFU!? Zelda should be an adult!!!! READ TFA!". A) Despite the fact that he's called Link and B) Despite the fact that they hadn't played the game.
I'd be a pissed-off puppy too if I'd worked that damned hard on creating some
Re:You guys pissed him off (Score:2)
Re:You guys pissed him off (Score:2)
Online??? (Score:4, Interesting)
Somone already did something like this. Back around 1998, some guy made a multiplayer online version of Legend of Zelda-a Link to the Past by reusing all the SNES game sprites and tiles. It was pretty cool. After a while, Nintendo caught on and sent them a cease-and-desist, and they changed the name to GRAAL [graalonline.com], and slowly changed all the graphics. I guess that people still play Graal to this day. It was a good idea. I hope Nintendo does this.
Re:Online??? (Score:1)
Re:Online??? (Score:2)
Re:Online??? (Score:1)
But letting players choose between classic Zelda characters (Gorons, Dekus, Hylians, Zoras, Gerudos, Skull Kids, Stalfos, Darknuts, etc) and duking it out in a massive battle through mountains, lakes, tundra, caves, and forests could be real
Don't you just love sensationalism? (Score:5, Insightful)
Zelda as I know it... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Zelda as I know it... (Score:1)
Not the least bit worried. (Score:1, Redundant)
What's he mean? (Score:5, Insightful)
The Legend of Zelda (#1)
Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (#2)
A Link to the Past (#3)
Link's Awakening (#4)
Oracle of Ages (#6A)
Oracle of Seasons (#6B)
Ocarina of Time (#5)
Majora's Mask (#7)
Wind Waker (#8)
Twilight Princess (forthcoming)
I don't count Four Swords Adventures in here (which would be #9) as it was more of a multiplayer action game with levels with a Zelda theme than a "real" Zelda.
Notice, the later eight games don't actually have that much in common with the first two. The three primary developments in the series were, undoubtably, the original NES Zelda, Link to the Past, and Ocarina of Time.
But it's kind of amazing, really, how much the series changed between the original NES game (#1) and LttP (#3). In contrast, the differences between LttP and Ocarina had less to do with gameplay and more to do with control and perspective. Those eight games are what Zelda has come to mean to players: a primary exploration gimmick, sequential dungeons with bosses that usually require the dungeon item to beat and caught up a Heart Container and a McGuffin when defeated, the hunt for hidden Pieces of Heart and minor McGuffins, get-this-to-go-there Metroid-style game progression, and a fairly leisurely game world when it comes to monsters and difficulty.
It's easy to forget, however, that much was changed between The Legend of Zelda to Link to the Past, things that cannot be explained away just by moving to the SNES, or the intervening (and even more different) Zelda II.
The biggest of these are:
1. The game was actually hard. The first Zelda is a good workout, and it gets much tougher (some may say too hard) in the Second Quest. Pieces of Heart are almost meaningless in later Zeldas; I eventually completed all of Ocarina of Time quite easily with only the three hearts I began with, and only had trouble during the fight with Ganon (and Nayru's Love took the edge entirely off of that). But in the original Zelda, the first thing you do is get *all* the Hearts you can easily get before even stepping foot into Level One.
A new Zelda could mark a return to the difficulty the series began with, and was also seen in Zelda II and Link's Awakening. (One problem with that, however, is that the current head of the Zelda series has said he doesn't like the original game's difficulty.)
2. The original Zelda had meaningful choices, something not seen a lot of in adventure games these days. Not that anyone really chose the Red Potion over the Heart Container, of course, or ever picked to lose a HC instead of 50 rupees if they could afford it in one of the Second Quest's infamous Money-Or-Life rooms. But the point is, that adventure games with meaningful failure states are quite rare.
My own personal favorite idea for how this could be made done (something I spent a fair bit of time playing around in Zelda Classic trying to figure out) is a system where each dungeon has *two*, mutually-exclusive, items, which allow the player to reach different areas in each game depending on the choices he's made.
3. As said before, starting with Link to the Past, the design began to resemble Metroid in progression. You get an item (usually in Level One) that lets you reach Level Two, the item in Level Two lets you reach Level Three, and so on. There are places where this skips, but most of the items work like this.
In the original game, however, you could explore, if I count right, 126 of the game's 128 overworld screens before going into even the first dungeon. And there's something to be said for this degree of player freedom, even if it's unfashionable in the game industry these days. The thing I loved best about the original game, that's never been duplicated in any of the later installments in the
Re:What's he mean? (Score:2)
The original was most certainly a get-item-go-to-next-screen march on rails. It just had a very large, inert starting area (126 of 128 overworld screens). Note how, even in the original, you couldn't go to levels out of order without major headaches. (1, 2, 3, and 8 are available from the start in the first quest without anything more than a blue candle, but good luck with 8. The second quest narrows it down to 1 and 3 and a
Re:What's he mean? (Score:2)
Level 6 as well... even harder than 8 though... damn Wizrobes and Like-Likes...
Re:What's he mean? (Score:1)
The shadow hands don't come down from the ceiling in Windwaker, they're part of the level (you'll notice a vortex on the floor, the hand comes out of that) and don't move around (only grab stuff near them). The controls got a lot better than OOT, being able to control the camera takes away a lot of the frustration.
But I agree, Zelda doesn't benefit one bit from 3d, needs more 2d.
Re:What's he mean? (Score:2)
Re:What's he mean? (Score:2)
I played a great deal of both games. I happen to like the original more because of its difficulty and much greater number of secrets to find, however.
I was referring to non-linearity of the game structure, but it's in fact possible to take levels substantially out of order in the first game, too. You can take the levels out of order in LttP as well, but the non-linearity feels a fair bit stricter there, especially if you
Re:What's he mean? (Score:1)
Excellent points that I won't address. Instead, I'm going to be pedantic. You missed a couple games [zeldauniverse.net]:
Of course, those games weren't written by Nintendo (the CD-i games should just be forgotten entirely, and Minish Cap was developed by Flagship), but neither were the
Re:What's he mean? (Score:2)
I didn't include the BS Zeldas because they were of limited exposure even in Japan, because they never made it to the States, and because they were only even playable for very short periods of time. They've only become widely known recently because of the general Nintendophile's mania for all things Zelda, but they're largely a footnote, really.
I didn't include Minish Cap because...
Re:What's he mean? (Score:1)
Wind Waker (Score:3, Interesting)
In fact, I think if it hadn't been a Zelda game, the industry would be raving about its innovative gameplay and terrific graphics. Unfortunately it seems like the community really wanted OoT on steroids. Well, that's what it's getting with Twilight Princess. I'm sorry to read that Miyamoto wasn't happy with WW, but I certainly got a lot of fun out of it.
Which era? (Score:1)
Early in the series, each game was hugely different from the predecessor. But after Ocarina of Time, each console game has been adhering to the same basic mechanics, and I'm assuming that Twilight Princess will do the same. That would make 4 games following the same model. While that is the norm for most game sequels, the Zelda series used to experience a h
Re:Which era? (Score:1)
You're kidding, right? A Link to the Past was basically like a massively souped up Legend of Zelda, in the same way Super Mario World was a massively souped up Super Mario Bros- way better looking and a lot bigger, but otherwise almost the same. Link's Awakening might as well have been running on the same engine as Legend of Zelda. I'm fairly certain the Oracles were running on the same engine as Link's Awakening, and the Minnish Ca
Re:Which era? (Score:1)
the change is Ganon dies for good? (Score:2)
um, new control mechanism maybe? (Score:2)
Think about it, of the non-handheld Zelda games, the last transition was from 2D to 3D and was marked with the series moving to the N64. This wasn't done out of malice, but it did represent a new era for the Zelda series; arguably one that was very beneficial.
The core of the franchise will probably be unchanged; Link will still battle Ganno
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:2, Flamebait)
He said that Zelda would reborn in some different way. Not back to 2D. MMORPG maybe? Hyrule Online, tha
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:5, Funny)
No offense, but has it occurred to you that you might be just a bit too excitable about Zelda?
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:3, Funny)
Me. It ruined Zelda. The effect was twofold:
First, it gave Zelda this fancy 3D crap that wowed everyone for a minute or two. That part, I can forgive. I was wowed along with everyone else. That said, the controls sucked large portions of ass, and that's mostly why I hated the change. Console Controllers Aren't Made For 3D Games(tm).
Second, it brought n00bs into the fanbase. Not just regular newbs that can be taught to be decent people, but n00b
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:2)
3d just didn't work for the zelda series.
hell, i couldn't play ocarina of time for more than an hour before throwing it in the trash bin.
2d still has plenty of life in it... even if it's a pseudo-2d like that recent mario game.
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:1)
3D Link in 2D prerendered world, with 3D monsters & effects.
Re:They never should have made it 3D (Score:2)
Running across an empty field is not fun. Trying to figure out where my next goal is is not fun. Games are not work.
I just went back to Mario 64 where, if I didn't like a mission I could just go try a different one. Plus, there were less endless fields to cross.
Re:Offtopic, but anyway... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Offtopic, but anyway... (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.animetric.com/bgames/water.html [animetric.com]
Re:In general it is a good idea ... (Score:1)
I'm also hoping that Mario Kart will be based on leaning into corners as it's next theme.
Re:In general it is a good idea ... (Score:2)
Consider Doom's unpopular remake. The new gameplay is just dull and repetative. Compare v. Serious Sa
Re:Good Riddance (Score:1)
I'm sure you already know this, but you're in the vast minority. The three 3D Zeldas have each been top-rated and top-selling games on their respective consoles. Nearly every third-person adventure game since 1996 borrows some gameplay elements from OoT (targeting, context-sensitive commands, puzzle design). So whether you enjoyed the games or not, it's foolish to ignore their success and impact on the industry.
And by the way, there have been at lea
Re:Good Riddance (Score:2)
While I've been a Zelda fan since TLoZ on the NES (I still have the shiny gold cartridge! Pretty...) I should point out that this is the same logic used to dismiss complaints about Microsoft software.
Re:Good Riddance (Score:2)
The challenge I find in Wind Waker is due to game design. The challenge I find in Ocarina of Time is due to the control scheme. It just feels clunky, and I can't convince Link to do what I want him to. I don't have this issue in WW.
It's good, bu