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End of an Era For Zelda 133

Posted by Zonk from the no-more-hat dept.
Twilight Princess will represent the end of an era for Zelda games, according to Shigeru Miyamoto.From the Eurogamer article: "'This will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form,' Miyamoto is quoted as saying. He declined to reveal any more details as to how the series will be reborn, but did go on to assure fans that Twilight Princess will be absolutely aces: 'Our goal was to make the best Zelda game ever. The most rich, satisfying and [melancholic]. I worked on it personally, moreso than Wind Waker. I haven't invested as much into any game as I have this one,' Miyamoto said."
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End of an Era For Zelda

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  • Next up: (Score:5, Funny)

    by cornface ( 900179 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:14PM (#13484268)
    Zelda Baseball.

    Zelda Konga.

    Zelda Golf.

    Zelda Party!

    Zelda Soccer.

    Zelda Tennis.

    Zelda Kart.

    Dr. Zelda.

    . . .
    • Zelda Kart actually sounds pretty fun. Horceracing game, anyone? And of course, you can fight others in a huge horse-battle. Does that sound familiar?
      • Then it wouldn't realy be a Kart game, would it?
      • I don't know why Nintendo doesn't do something like Super Smash Bros with Mario Kart and open it up to all their franchises. Something like "Nintendo Kart" with characters from all of their popular games could be the tweak needed to break the Mario Kart series out of its current lack of innovation.

    • Possible Alternatives (Score:5, Interesting)

      by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:57PM (#13484516)
      I know you're just joking around and that it would be possible for Legend of Zelda characters to appear in games like this. After all, Link, Zelda, and a few others are already in the Smash Bros. games. I could see cameos from the characters of the series in Nintendo made games based around popular sports.

      However, I don't think we'd outright see any games like that ever, even if there is a Mario Kart and Mario Golf. Instead I think there are a few different angles that Nintendo might be thinking of taking.

      First up is the traditional RPG. Nintendo really hasn't had many of these on their console in the last few generations. The GameCube was an improvement over the N64, but considering the massive amounts of RPGs on the SNES and other current generation consoles like the PS2, Nintendo has fallen quite short of the mark in providing a plethora of worthwhile RPGs.

      The Legend of Zelda universe would translate pretty well into an RPG. Turn based battles could be considered a real drag after the live action we're used to, but there are always the real time battles as found in the Star Ocean series and Tales of Symphonia. If anyone could make those feel perfect, I think it is Nintendo.

      Another possibility is that the series really isn't undergoing a radical gameplay change or redesign but is instead changing other things around. The themes and characters may become more mature and feature voice acting that the other games in the series have lacked. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers out there who would appreciate a more mature based Legend of Zelda game with all the elements that other modern games have in them.

      This could be conceived as radical and revolutionary because it's a complete departure from the "kiddy" style that Nintendo is often tagged with. Maybe it's just me but I don't think the main Zelda demographic is young children anymore. I think the game mechanics make it a little too complicated for anyone that young. The top down games of the past were pretty easy, but the 3D worlds of today require slightly more mastery.

      Then again this could be a lot of talk to get the community stirred up about Nintendo and Zelda. Drop a line that a game a lot of people have grown up with and loved and the masses will go ballistic. This does seem a lot like a Nintendo PR grab. They tend to come out and talk about how they're going to revolutionize something or how radically different something is going to be instead of tossing out numbers on their console or how it will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

      There're a lot of other possibilities, but my money is that the games will take on a much more mature (or at least a lot less childish) nature, transition into more of an RPG, or that this is just a PR media attention grab from Nintendo while they work out the details of what they're going to do later.

      • Yeah, somehow I doubt Nintendo's strategy is to make Zelda more like Final Fantasy, as natural a move as that may seem to "traditional" RPG fans. I don't have anything against Square, and I love more progressive RPGs like Symphonia, but Zelda is pretty much defined in opposition to fancy non-gameplay additives like FMV and voice acting.
      • The full roster of Legend of Zelda characters in Super Smash Brothers is:

        N64 / Super Smash Brothers: Link

        Gamecube / Super Smash Brothers Melee: Link, Young Link, Princess Zelda / Sheik, Ganondorf (sans sword)

        Just so you know :)

      • The themes and characters may become more mature and feature voice acting that the other games in the series have lacked.

        Oh god, please no voice acting [vgcats.com].

        Hey!

        Listen!

        Aaarrrgggghhh!

    • Re:Next up: (Score:5, Funny)

      by macdaddy357 ( 582412 ) <macdaddy357@hotmail.com> on Monday September 05, 2005 @03:31PM (#13484707)
      Zelda Games will never end. There was once a game called Final Fantasy. Was it the last one? Not by a longshot!

  • No more Luigi!?! (Score:5, Funny)

    by mrgreen4242 ( 759594 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:14PM (#13484269)
    Miyamoto also revealed that Mario is getting a brand new sidekick, but kept firmly schtum on the details.

    No!!! I always had an odd affinity for Luigi. He just as skilled as Mario, but always gets shunted to the side. Like in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga, it's kind of a joke that no one cares about Luigi. I'm gonna miss is little green overalls...

    • Maybe they meant a replacement for yoshi, he's more of a "sidekick" than luigi, luigi is more of an extra character.

  • Scary thought (Score:3, Funny)

    by FLAGGR ( 800770 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:17PM (#13484286)
    Miyamoto also revealed that Mario is getting a brand new sidekick, but kept firmly schtum on the details.

    Now that Link is collecting welfare checks..

  • Spoiler (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:18PM (#13484292)
    Zelda and Link will die.
    It's the beginning of the Legend of Ganon.
    • The land of Hyrule has been ruled by zelda and good for too long. It's time for ganon to collect all the mythical doo-dads and unique weapons to defeat the legendary hero link. Gameplay will start in the darkworld were ganon is powerful and protected. He then needs to gain power to take over the light world.
  • Maybe now he can get some more time in practicing his musical instruments for Tetris end-scenes!!

  • Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AndreiK ( 908718 ) <AKrotkov@gmail.com> on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:25PM (#13484336) Homepage
    Rather than just making a crap spinoff of such a great series, they should retire it with dignity.

    • Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) <fidelcatsro&gmail,com> on Monday September 05, 2005 @03:12PM (#13484595) Journal
      They still have not made a crap game in the series(Zelda 2 and Wind waker are arguably the worst in the series and they are amazing) .. I would be rather annoyed if they totally ended the timeline though since Twilight princes is to be set before wind waker .. I would like one last game after it to be set after the original Zelda game to tie up all the loose ends and finally have the triforce of power taken from Gannondorf.
      Though when Miyamoto San says that there will not be another Zelda game in its classic form it will most likely be far better.
      He is the only game designer who always delivers a game that lives up to the hype .
      It's rare in the industry to retain such a record , the only other designer who even comes close in my mind is Warren Spector.
      I don't want to seem like a brainless fan-boy and if he ever does mess up i would have no hesitation saying so , but the fact remains he has not yet .

      speculating on marios new sidekick .. I am expecting a bird of some type or perhaps something to do with digging .. but we will have to wait and see.

      • Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Insightful)

        by xenocide2 ( 231786 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @04:05PM (#13484934) Homepage
        When he says that Zelda will not return in classic form, he probably means newer games won't adhere to the standard Zelda design that the first created, a Link to the Past fleshed out, and Ocarina of Time cemented. That form is three dungeons, introduction of the duality of worlds, and seven more dungeons thereafter, leading to a final confrontation of the evil Gannon.

        It seems that WindWaker was supposed to carry that theme further, with the Triforce hunt being the grueling 7 dungeon crawl we know and love, and the duality of worlds being above and below water. We see a bit of that duality in the Tower of the Gods and Hyrule Castle, but nothing like LttP demonstrated.

        The downside to that epic form is that it takes forever to get out the door. The first came out two years after the NES release, LttP was late, Ocarina was delayed several times, and WindWaker was cut short. Zelda clearly has a strong influence with the gamers, given the strong reactions to the infamous E3 trailer, the cel-shading annoucement of WW, and twilight's expectations to make good on that e3 trailer. As game machines get beefier, the work involved doesn't scale proportionately. Higher poly counts, higher texture qualities and more expansive game worlds crush any time saving benefits the newer machine might yield. They're likely retooling Zelda to something more likely to see release dates on time, and maybe even at release. I don't know if that makes it strictly "better" although it's likely to convice more people to play it and wind up liking/loving it, should it be released with the Revolution on day 1.

        I'll miss the classic form, but I do realize that it's an epic form that not many people end up completing. I expect the newer form will be a shorter experience with less of a madlibs rigid game structure, while keeping the emphasis on a single player mode. I could be wrong on this; maybe they've found a way to make Four Swords fun with anonymous strangers on the internet. I know that the Zelda dungeon from SS:M was popular and sparked interest in a Zelda II revival, so that's a possibilty. Hopefully the change makes the franchise cheaper too, so they can use Zelda to push consoles like they can and need to.

        What would be most innovative, though, is a Zelda subscription service. I've often said that Link is like the Natty Bumpo of video games; a romantic character who's stories aren't nessecarily internally consistant between them. WW picked up on this same idea (not that I'm saying I've inspired Miyamato somehow). It would be interesting to see an episodic Zelda on their Revolution networking service. Zelda: Wandering Era or something. You'd lose the RPGish aspects of Zelda that can consume people whole, but gain much more back in storytelling potential, ironically.
        • If I had mod points, I'd mod that up. There really has been a shortage of good storyline-based games. I honestly don't remember the last game I played based that had a true storyline, from start to finish.

        • Re:Zelda FPS. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by FidelCatsro ( 861135 ) <fidelcatsro&gmail,com> on Monday September 05, 2005 @05:12PM (#13485293) Journal
          there was a Zelda subscription service in japan .. well the modem add-on (Satellaview) for the SNES had two games .. BS Zelda http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_Zelda [wikipedia.org] and BS Zelda: Kodai no Sekiban http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BS_Zelda:_Kodai_no_Se kiban [wikipedia.org].
          not exactly what you meant ;) but still bloody interesting .. The emulation is not perfect so there is no real way to enjoy them right now IIRC .*If your listening nintendo .. how about including an emulated version of these with Twilight princess *

          Wind waker was great .. unfortunately it was rushed and half the triforce hunt had me reaching for a bottle .
          All together it was a great game ,... just a tad on the short side(if you remove the bloody triforce hunt).

          Link is defiantly a romantic character ( Sentimental romantic , not amorous) and a good iconic hero .
          Though he is not the one to shift consoles to the masses .. that's Mario's job .
          The Zelda games are there for the slightly more dedicated players

          Honestly though , I don't mind waiting 6 years for a Zelda game (well i do moan about it .. but they are always worth the wait )
        • This has got to be the first time anyone's compared Leatherstocking to Link....
          • Honestly, I've never read the books, but I seem to recall from Highschool English that early American romantic themes included a hero in touch with nature, etc. I think I remember the Kevin Costner movie though.
            • Hey, you made the connection. To this English grad student's mind, that's worth all the props right there.
              • Yea, well I slowly learned the hard way that people who want to develop a theory of video games aren't developers in training, but English students in funny suits. So please pardon me if I view your peers with some amount of disdain-- I think most video game theorists remain somewhat disconnected from the games themselves; perhaps thats nessecary in order to make the journal deadlines ;)
                • Heh, my problem is that I see it both ways: I can see how English professor-types can find value in video games, but I also see how they largely ignore things like gameplay, design and essential coolness.

                  I can even hold both of these concepts in my head at once, but it requires that I thunk down to real mode....
                  • The best way to write about video games is to write new video games.
                    • Well I'm not sure that's texactly true.

                      I mean, of course a compelling way to prove a point is by example, but writing an essay is an attempt at persuasion. And it takes a lot more effort to make a good game, especially by today's standards, than to write an essay.
      • Twilight princess is set *after* windwaker, in the reformed Hyrule which you founded at the end of Wind Waker with Tetra as the new Zelda... oops don't read that if you haven't beat WW.

        So, you're wish for a Zelda game having a grand conclusion, with the final end to the triforce struggle with might just be this game.

  • Superman is Dead! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kannibal_klown ( 531544 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @02:29PM (#13484359)
    In other news, DC Comics has decided to kill Superman. In a grand move by DC, they will a world faced with real loss and grief as their greatest hero falls.

    "This isn't a ploy." He will be dead and buried, never to return. Superman has been with DC comics for decades, and his death will be a major turning point.

    **Skip a month or 2 later**

    Superman is back! Which one is he? Cyborg, young clone, black guy in a power suit, or energy-throwing guy with big glasses?

    **Skip another month or 2 later **

    FACE! The real superman has revealed himself. He never died, but was in stasis! Now he's fighting against the Cyborg to save the Earth.

    I don't doubt that in a few years time we'll see another real Zelda game.
    • There will be another Zelda game. But as he says, not in the same form as past Zelda games. You missed that part, I think.
      • First guy says: I don't doubt that in a few years time we'll see another real Zelda game.

        Second guy says: There will be another Zelda game. But as he says, not in the same form as past Zelda games. You missed that part, I think.

        Hey second guy, he was saying that he thinks they'll break down and make another standard Zelda game.

        HTH. LTR.

      • There will be another Zelda game. But as he says, not in the same form as past Zelda games. You missed that part, I think.

        No I didn't. DC tried different things with Superman that ultimately failed. Eventually they gave up and went with regular Superman. That's what I foresee with Zelda. They'll try a couple of new "formulas" but in the end they'll go back the "young green-suit wearing guy has a destiny involving using a magical sword to save a youngh princess."

        As with Superman, they decided to do away

        • I would like to think that he says what he means and that they are going to try and go an entirely different direction with Zelda and not go back as soon as it hit some bumps.It maybe that this is even to tie into a shift of game play based on the Revolution.

          Frankly, I think the best thing would be to let Link & Zelda lie fallow for an entire game console generation or 2. That won't happen anytime soon but I like the thought. I have love all off them over the last 2 console cycles but keeping something
        • like this?
          http://marioindahizzouse.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com]

          can anyone confirm if that artwork is actually real or not? i don't know where the ytmnd creator got the image
          (i do remember the rap as one of the cartoon themesongs though)
        • While he "hip" and modern, they quickly learned that people just wanted their good ol' Superman back. After a while, certain things become a part of culture, and changing them is met with hostility.

          Both the Death storyline and the energy suit storyline were never intended to supplant the character entirely. They were just stunt stories to attract attention and drive sales. Whenever any comics company tinkers with a classic character like that, you can bet the status quo will be returned.

          For a fascinatin

  • At the end of this game, they're going to reveal that Zelda's really just a disguised hedgehog. Then he'll go on to battle Sonic in later games, at least until they both band together to defeat Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot in a cart race.
    • At the end of this game, they're going to reveal that Zelda's really just a disguised hedgehog. Then he'll go on to battle Sonic in later games, at least until they both band together to defeat Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot in a cart race.

      Link.
    • I like how my joke got marked as "off-topic." If you didn't think it was funny, try maybe "over-rated."
  • You guys aren't giving him enough credit. This is the man responsible for Mario, DK, and Zelda. Considering the fact that Nintendo already has those two mascots, why would he throw this last one away.

    I'm sure he's aware of the fact that hardcore gamers don't like their most famous characters being abused, but he also is experienced enough to balance that with business needs.

    He already has his business lapdogs, he doesn't need a third. This is will surely be a creative change.

  • You guys pissed him off (Score:5, Funny)

    by sycomonkey ( 666153 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @03:01PM (#13484542) Homepage
    He was really proud and happy about Wind Waker, and you people just couldn't take the style. "Oh, it's too kiddy". "Oh, Celda?". And Miyamoto says "FINE, I will make a realistic zelda, I will make the best Realistic Zelda ever, it will be an epic masterpiece of monumental stature and it will rock, and then I'M NEVER MAKING ANOTHER ONE YOU UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS". Except all that's in Japanese, but you get the idea.
    • Absolutely spot on.

      Probably the greatest game designer, technician, coder - whatever you want to call him - of all-time decided that he'd take a new direction and new style with a series that he created.

      The millions of Nintendo fan-boards fill up the next day with "WTF?! Miyamoto STFU!? Zelda should be an adult!!!! READ TFA!". A) Despite the fact that he's called Link and B) Despite the fact that they hadn't played the game.

      I'd be a pissed-off puppy too if I'd worked that damned hard on creating some
      • Yes. I'm sad that the next Zelda doesn't use the cel-shaded style like Wind Waker did. It was unique. It was awesome. It just worked. I can honestly say that it was easier to believe in the Wind Waker world than the Ocarina of Time world because it looked so damn good.
        • I agree. The Wind Waker made good on the lie that was arcade Dragon's Lair. The in-game footage was better than most games' cutscenes. I would love to see an animated series made solely on that engine. It was one of the first games that I could actually forget a computer was rendering it

  • Online??? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by alan_dershowitz ( 586542 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @03:08PM (#13484578)
    I'm wondering if the big change he is referring to is an MMORPG version of Zelda. Let me be the first to say KICKASS, and I will probably live in there if they make it.

    Somone already did something like this. Back around 1998, some guy made a multiplayer online version of Legend of Zelda-a Link to the Past by reusing all the SNES game sprites and tiles. It was pretty cool. After a while, Nintendo caught on and sent them a cease-and-desist, and they changed the name to GRAAL [graalonline.com], and slowly changed all the graphics. I guess that people still play Graal to this day. It was a good idea. I hope Nintendo does this.
    • I played graal classic way back in 1999 but never really got into it. In addition to that I think it was on some sort of weird trial system at the time. Like all the other basement MMOs of the time it could have used a lot of polish. Maybe it's gotten that by now though.
      • It was a cool idea, but after a while you figured out that there wasn't that much to actually do. I eventually got bored of it and left. Cheating was getting bad at about the time I left, and when I can back a while later, all the fucking cheaters (the same people who played 24 hours a day) had become "gamecops", deputized under Stefan to keep order, which is a real morale killer. Then they started charging for it, and one of the guys I knew from the beginning got thrown in jail for attempted child abductio
    • OoT's plot began with a big war, right? I could definitely envision a Zelda MMOZelda where players choose sides in a full-scale war in the various locales of Hyrule. Not an RPG, mind you... an MMORPG couldn't offer the playability or accessability of the Zelda series.

      But letting players choose between classic Zelda characters (Gorons, Dekus, Hylians, Zoras, Gerudos, Skull Kids, Stalfos, Darknuts, etc) and duking it out in a massive battle through mountains, lakes, tundra, caves, and forests could be real

  • Don't you just love sensationalism? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mouse_clicker ( 760426 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @03:22PM (#13484654)
    You guys are pathetic. I bet most of you read the title and assumed you knew what the article meant. He means Zelda is changing in the same way it changed between A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time, and Mario is changing in same way it did between Super Mario World and Super Mario 64. As new features become available, games can take advantage of new gameplay possibilites not available before. The best example of this was the transition between 2D and 3D. Miyamoto is suggesting the Revolution is opening new doors to expand both the Mario and Zelda series. You guys should actually think about what you're saying.
  • This will be, without a doubt, the last Zelda game as you know it in its present form
    No more Zelda driving a car while throwing bananas back at Mario and Donkey Kong???
  • If there was ever a man who earned the right to take whatever new directions he sees fit, it's Miyamoto. To put it mildly, the man knows what he's doing.

  • What's he mean? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MilenCent ( 219397 ) <johnwh@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Monday September 05, 2005 @10:01PM (#13486692) Homepage
    I'm going to present a few speculative ideas as to where the series could go after Twilight Princess, but before that, here are the main Zelda games to date, sorted by type and numbered according to release order:

    The Legend of Zelda (#1)

    Zelda II: The Adventure of Link (#2)

    A Link to the Past (#3)
    Link's Awakening (#4)
    Oracle of Ages (#6A)
    Oracle of Seasons (#6B)

    Ocarina of Time (#5)
    Majora's Mask (#7)
    Wind Waker (#8)
    Twilight Princess (forthcoming)

    I don't count Four Swords Adventures in here (which would be #9) as it was more of a multiplayer action game with levels with a Zelda theme than a "real" Zelda.

    Notice, the later eight games don't actually have that much in common with the first two. The three primary developments in the series were, undoubtably, the original NES Zelda, Link to the Past, and Ocarina of Time.

    But it's kind of amazing, really, how much the series changed between the original NES game (#1) and LttP (#3). In contrast, the differences between LttP and Ocarina had less to do with gameplay and more to do with control and perspective. Those eight games are what Zelda has come to mean to players: a primary exploration gimmick, sequential dungeons with bosses that usually require the dungeon item to beat and caught up a Heart Container and a McGuffin when defeated, the hunt for hidden Pieces of Heart and minor McGuffins, get-this-to-go-there Metroid-style game progression, and a fairly leisurely game world when it comes to monsters and difficulty.

    It's easy to forget, however, that much was changed between The Legend of Zelda to Link to the Past, things that cannot be explained away just by moving to the SNES, or the intervening (and even more different) Zelda II.

    The biggest of these are:

    1. The game was actually hard. The first Zelda is a good workout, and it gets much tougher (some may say too hard) in the Second Quest. Pieces of Heart are almost meaningless in later Zeldas; I eventually completed all of Ocarina of Time quite easily with only the three hearts I began with, and only had trouble during the fight with Ganon (and Nayru's Love took the edge entirely off of that). But in the original Zelda, the first thing you do is get *all* the Hearts you can easily get before even stepping foot into Level One.

    A new Zelda could mark a return to the difficulty the series began with, and was also seen in Zelda II and Link's Awakening. (One problem with that, however, is that the current head of the Zelda series has said he doesn't like the original game's difficulty.)

    2. The original Zelda had meaningful choices, something not seen a lot of in adventure games these days. Not that anyone really chose the Red Potion over the Heart Container, of course, or ever picked to lose a HC instead of 50 rupees if they could afford it in one of the Second Quest's infamous Money-Or-Life rooms. But the point is, that adventure games with meaningful failure states are quite rare.

    My own personal favorite idea for how this could be made done (something I spent a fair bit of time playing around in Zelda Classic trying to figure out) is a system where each dungeon has *two*, mutually-exclusive, items, which allow the player to reach different areas in each game depending on the choices he's made.

    3. As said before, starting with Link to the Past, the design began to resemble Metroid in progression. You get an item (usually in Level One) that lets you reach Level Two, the item in Level Two lets you reach Level Three, and so on. There are places where this skips, but most of the items work like this.

    In the original game, however, you could explore, if I count right, 126 of the game's 128 overworld screens before going into even the first dungeon. And there's something to be said for this degree of player freedom, even if it's unfashionable in the game industry these days. The thing I loved best about the original game, that's never been duplicated in any of the later installments in the
    • You're close, but either played way too much of the original, or not enough of LttP.

      The original was most certainly a get-item-go-to-next-screen march on rails. It just had a very large, inert starting area (126 of 128 overworld screens). Note how, even in the original, you couldn't go to levels out of order without major headaches. (1, 2, 3, and 8 are available from the start in the first quest without anything more than a blue candle, but good luck with 8. The second quest narrows it down to 1 and 3 and a
      • (1, 2, 3, and 8 are available from the start in the first quest without anything more than a blue candle, but good luck with 8

        Level 6 as well... even harder than 8 though... damn Wizrobes and Like-Likes...
      • You didn't like Minish Cap or what?

        The shadow hands don't come down from the ceiling in Windwaker, they're part of the level (you'll notice a vortex on the floor, the hand comes out of that) and don't move around (only grab stuff near them). The controls got a lot better than OOT, being able to control the camera takes away a lot of the frustration.

        But I agree, Zelda doesn't benefit one bit from 3d, needs more 2d.
      • Of all the old Nintendo franchises, I thought Zelda made the easiest leap to 3D...because a 2D overhead view is kind of 3D already, it just has limited "Z" movement (come to think of it, thanks to that harsh mistress gravity, I only have limited "Z" movement as well, I always need stairs or an elevator, except for some trivial jumps.)
      • You're close, but either played way too much of the original, or not enough of LttP.

        I played a great deal of both games. I happen to like the original more because of its difficulty and much greater number of secrets to find, however.

        I was referring to non-linearity of the game structure, but it's in fact possible to take levels substantially out of order in the first game, too. You can take the levels out of order in LttP as well, but the non-linearity feels a fair bit stricter there, especially if you

    • Excellent points that I won't address. Instead, I'm going to be pedantic. You missed a couple games [zeldauniverse.net]:

      Of course, those games weren't written by Nintendo (the CD-i games should just be forgotten entirely, and Minish Cap was developed by Flagship), but neither were the

      • I didn't include the CD-i Zeldas because they were abominations, and Nintendo had little to do with them other than licensing.

        I didn't include the BS Zeldas because they were of limited exposure even in Japan, because they never made it to the States, and because they were only even playable for very short periods of time. They've only become widely known recently because of the general Nintendophile's mania for all things Zelda, but they're largely a footnote, really.

        I didn't include Minish Cap because...
    • You missed a couple often-overlooked Zelda games. Namely, the two CD-I Zelda games as well as the two BS Zelda games. They were all very much part of Zelda lore. Well, maybe not the BS Zeldas so much.

  • Wind Waker (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Phantasmo ( 586700 ) on Monday September 05, 2005 @11:07PM (#13486963)
    Boy, I steered clear of Wind Waker because of all the bad things I heard about it. However, I hit a bit of a slow period and a friend of mine loaned it to me. I really regret my decision to pass it up. It's seriously one of the best games I've ever played.
    In fact, I think if it hadn't been a Zelda game, the industry would be raving about its innovative gameplay and terrific graphics. Unfortunately it seems like the community really wanted OoT on steroids. Well, that's what it's getting with Twilight Princess. I'm sorry to read that Miyamoto wasn't happy with WW, but I certainly got a lot of fun out of it.
  • I've seen comments talking about this as the end of the "classic" Zelda, but remember that the current era of Zelda is very different than its roots.

    Early in the series, each game was hugely different from the predecessor. But after Ocarina of Time, each console game has been adhering to the same basic mechanics, and I'm assuming that Twilight Princess will do the same. That would make 4 games following the same model. While that is the norm for most game sequels, the Zelda series used to experience a h

    • Early in the series, each game was hugely different from the predecessor.

      You're kidding, right? A Link to the Past was basically like a massively souped up Legend of Zelda, in the same way Super Mario World was a massively souped up Super Mario Bros- way better looking and a lot bigger, but otherwise almost the same. Link's Awakening might as well have been running on the same engine as Legend of Zelda. I'm fairly certain the Oracles were running on the same engine as Link's Awakening, and the Minnish Ca
      • Zelda 1 was a lot less linear than LttP, you don't need most of the dungeon items at all and all dungeons are available pretty early. It had almost no puzzles except "push this block" and "bomb this wall".
  • Ever since Link to the Past I've wanted Ganon to die and stay dead. What was this stupidity of going even further back in time or forward and Ganon always gets resurrected? It's not like he was an especially charismatic villan. I want him to die so my victory will matter more.
  • If the next game will be the beginning of a new Zelda era, than wouldn't it make sense for it to be because of the new control mechanism that will be part of Revolution?

    Think about it, of the non-handheld Zelda games, the last transition was from 2D to 3D and was marked with the series moving to the N64. This wasn't done out of malice, but it did represent a new era for the Zelda series; arguably one that was very beneficial.

    The core of the franchise will probably be unchanged; Link will still battle Ganno

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