WoW Helping or Hurting the Industry? 692
alstor writes "The New York Times has an interesting story about the success of World of Warcraft, and whether it is hurting or helping the gaming industry; this goes along with an earlier post on an article from CNN. From the Times article: 'WoW is now the 800-pound gorilla in the room. I think it also applies to the single-player games. If some kid is paying $15 a month on top of the initial $50 investment and is devoting so many hours a week to it, are they really going to go out and buy the next Need for Speed or whatever? There is a real fear that this game, with its incredible time investment, will really cut into game-buying across the industry.' What is the Slashdot opinion on World of Warcraft's impact on the gaming industry?"
If Anything it Helps the Hardware Industry (Score:5, Interesting)
The interesting thing is that WOW supports MAC very well. Granted the graphics I heard are not as good as on a PC (I don't see a difference). I saw people buy MACs because their main game now was on MAC and they didn't see a need anymore to stay on PC.
Playing WOW on a 30 inch Apple wide screen LCD is pretty nice
Elnino - Destromath.
Well (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I'd have to say... (Score:5, Interesting)
How many have quit (Score:2, Interesting)
WoW is a boring game when you get to the higher levels, and it is at it's heart just another game of "grind to spend time".
In the short term it might have an effect, but in the long-term it will just be a bump in the road.
Industry's already hurting... (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as this doesn't become the next Evercrack, why should I really care whether or not it's hurting an industry that's hurting itself to begin with? If anything, I'd tend to think Electronic Arts is hurting the industry more because of their exclusive deal with the NFL.
I have not bought (Score:2, Interesting)
It has changed how I buy games (Score:5, Interesting)
The social aspect is also a big draw, in that I have quite a few friends who are likewise addicted to WoW, so I can log in and chat with them as well. Single-players or XBox Live games just aren't as good at that aspect.
Comment removed (Score:2, Interesting)
no time (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How many have quit (Score:3, Interesting)
I work for a video game retailer (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I know that I'm getting kind of off topic and trade-ins are a completely different tangent, but the trends in buying vs trade-ins are very relevent. Consumers are becoming less and less likely to purchase a NEW game over a Used Game, they are also becoming more and more prone to spending less money out of pocket to pay for something. So I believe we'll see a small impact from subscription games. I mean $15 a month, if someone buys 12 games a year, is only about 3 games per year. Though, as compared, the biggest impact will be from consumers running out of trade in values. It may sound a little far fetched, but I have been seeing a lot more people who are unwilling to pay more than thirty dollars out of their pocket when they have rising gas prices and costs of living to deal with as well. So when someone can trade in three games they already own to pay less than $10 for that spiffy new game they want, they'll do it. The question I pose, though, is what happens when they realize the trade ratio is about 3 to 1, and eventually they either wont have games to trade, or will be stuck paying 30+ dollars per game again.
Itn't hurting me... (Score:2, Interesting)
Plus, why in the hell would I pay $15 just to pay a game that I've already bought?
I see another bubble about to burst here.
MMOGs (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm done with MMOG. I appear to have the ability to quit these things cold-turkey after sufficient suffering. I know others can't.
Downloaded Wolfenstein, Enemy Territory. The bugs apparent in the 1.x releases are gone. There are plenty of very active servers. No exp bar to watch; you're uber the instant you start playing. Log off and you're done. Only way it becomes a time sink is when you attempt to develop content.
There you go; living proof MMOGs won't ruin the non-MMOG market.
No, you can't have my stuff.
Yes, this shall pass (Score:5, Interesting)
In the online community Everquest is fading, DAoC is fading, even City of Heroes is fading. All the supposed "hot! hot!" games enjoy popularity for a while then fade away. WoW will do this too.
As for the original question, WoW has little or nothing to do with the revenue streams flowing into other game developers. The purported "fear" of WoW cutting into game-buying is the sound of marketers quaking (pun not intended) because they promised management and shareholders 15-20% revenue increases based on publication of such scintillating games as "50 Cent: Bulletproof", and the revenue flow is just not happening. WoW is a convenient scapegoat.
As others have said, good games, not good marketing, draws the dollars. The recording industry is learning a similar lesson, as is Hollywood. It just happens to be gaming's turn.
Re:A WoW killer will emerge eventually. (Score:3, Interesting)
They call it GuildWars
The low end vs. the high end (Score:5, Interesting)
How about some innovation please? thx (Score:5, Interesting)
The folks at Sony (Raph, etc.) are responsible for their own problems with EQ2. They rushed to get that game out the door as close as they could to WoW, even though WoW was much farther along in testing. If they hadn't made hasty decisions in order to try to contain the "virtually" certain EQ exodus to WoW, and instead had invested that time on producing a truly innovative game, they could have won back mindshare from WoW when it hit its inevitable "fallout" with players: the (similarly rushed) launch of "battlegrounds".
Now I'm not saying WoW wasn't rushed too,
Now, on the topic of WoW, I played it to the "uber" end of the game, as I did with EQ for many years, so I know what I'm saying when I say that WoW was a rather big disappointment for me. I've been playing MUDs since 1990, and writing them since 1992, so I feel I have a good idea with what has been done and what remains to be done in this repackaged world of distributed MUDs with 3d graphics and perty textures. In short, WoW was disappointing in its inability to deliver a good mechanism for player-created content.
So basically WoW delivers an experience of "EQ like it should have been" (gosh I thought that a lot playing the game), but it was hardly revolutionary. Once you've explored the content in these games, it is up to you to make the content, or simply to get used to doing the same thing again and again. Its not so easy to build games "on the game", and the games that are there just become a treadmill for the powerlevelers. (E.g. battlegrounds "flag cap" trading.)
Now, I realize that many people will never hit the top levels of these games, and they may enjoy the journey, never "see it all" or even come close, and certainly try the game from the shoes of multiple classes. More power to them. Personally, I think I'd find that boring after awhile too. After all, there is only so much variety the game can deliver with their quest and combat engines.
Now back to what remains to be done... I think that's clear to me. Way back in the days of Diku and LPMUD, when players got to a certain point in the game they became "gods" or "wizards" and contributed content. With LPMUD (or MudOS) and some other dynamic engines, players could actually contribute code! (And yes as a Java developer for the last 10 years I know damn well about the inherent security risks and how to mitigate them.)
I want a fantasy (or scifi, or spy, or whatever) MMORPG that lets me contribute content and code to a dynamic world. I guarantee you a game like that will be innovative because the players will make it that way. And there are ways to keep balance, manage exploits, etc.; if you don't think so, go and look at the text MUDs that have been dealing with this for 15+ years. This is not just another "oh gosh he wants dynamic content, its too hard to do!" post -- like I said, go look at the numerous text MUDs that have been working on these issues for a decade or more. (And yes, I am personally working on my own solutions to these problems, "for the good of open source" (tm). Links to sourceforge project in my profile when I put it there).
Now before anyone links "Second Life" and such, let me remind you that those "games" are hollow in not having the cool backstory and "out of the box" content that something like WoW delivers. You need both, really, and I think running around buying jet packs and clothes in second life sounds as exciting as playing Sims Online, and we've seen how that is going.
Re:It has changed how I buy games (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm not much of a gamer these days (I don't even bother with xbox of ps2 except on occassion) but even when I was playing Counterstrike back in the day, all i really needed was one good, addictive game to take up all my free time. I can't imagine having TWO good, addictive games.. there's just not enough time for that.
I think this existed somewhat before MMO games. MMO probably makes it more scary because of the long term commitment to it. But, like any other game, people will get bored and want something new. That's jsut part of the evolution of the gaming industry that's inherently due to changing hardware, software and technology.
I much prefer Guild Wars... (Score:3, Interesting)
WoW vs. Software Piracy (Score:2, Interesting)
There's no way to play on Blizzard's servers without paying the monthly fee, and I know quite a few WoW players where WoW was one of their few legitimate purchases in a LONG time... and since they've started, they haven't bothered downloading any other "gamez"
Kormac
Re:Industry's already hurting... (Score:2, Interesting)
In terms of enraptured playerbase I believe Warcraft long ago surpassed evequest, in fact the only real contenders, now and in the past for playerbase are perhaps Lineage and its sequel. In North Americ I do not believe any one MMO has ever captured such a large playerbase (1.5 million).
The scary part is the game isn't particularly good, or challenging, but that tends to be the standard rather than the exception in MMOs. At base the 'grind' to 60
And there are people who will continue playing until there are no new challenges to encounter and then contineu to play even beyond that as they are hooked by the feet to the mindless community they've spent the past year and a half with.
I think another reason for the popularity of the game is it doesn't take any talent to play the game (like nearly all rpgs, massive or not) and it takes little talent to play the game well (though you're likely to spend a long time attaining said talent as the game works to obfusicate the matters at hand from you).
Re:Huge market (Score:5, Interesting)
I think I'd change this to read...
People will get hooked if it's "good"
But maybe that's the reason game companies wont make the switch. With a subscription system, the game has to actually be GOOD to get people to keep paying past the initial month. While with the traditional payment method, as long as it's marketed well, people will buy it. Once they've coughed up the cash, it doesn't make a difference whether they like it or not. The company has already made its money.
So for that reason, I'd love to see more games go with subscription payments. It would push the companies to make games actually BE more fun instead of making them LOOK more fun.
Re:Huge market (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:WoW is a massive timesink (Score:5, Interesting)
Try Counter Strike. It also can be a time sink but it is easier for it not to be. With each round resetting every 3-5 min it's easy to hop in for half hour or so and have a lot of fun.
Not like WoW where you can spend that much time just trying to get to where the action is. Run run run. Get to the port. No boat. Dang, just missed it. Wait 5 min. Fish. Dang, fishing without beer is boring. Ride the boat, run run run. Hop on griffon. fly fly fly. run some more. Now the fun can start 20 min later. Boring.
It's definitely changed how I play (Score:5, Interesting)
I haven't purchased another game since. I reinstalled and played HalfLife 2 for awhile, but that's about it. I've only played WoW. I have two characters (level 50 druid, level 60 warlock) with more time
Will I switch games? Probably not. I've got a time investement in WoW. I've got a social investment in my guild. Heck, I found out a guildie was local to me and appropriate for a job and got him hired for our helpdesk because I knew he was a straightforward easy to work with person based on my WoW experiences with him.
Will I play a single player game again? I've got a PSP for when I'm on the road. So, not bloody likely. I'm looking forward to an expansion, the next patch, and getting my hunter leveled up on a PvP server.
I'm playing WoW right now on my PC while I read this on my Mac Mini.
Am I typical? Dunno, hit the reply button and tell me.
Re:I'd have to say... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I work for a video game retailer (Score:3, Interesting)
The Gamestop near me is right near the local high school. Whenever I stop in, there is almost always at least one kid trading in lots of games. I guess the point it that kids don't value things the way adults would. But after thinking about it awhile and expanding on that, I have to say if somebody is done with a game and won't use it again it holds zero value -- and might as well be used as a trade in. Otherwise it has no use at all for that owner.
Speaking as someone who used to hoard his games, I finally realized my collection was doing nothing but taking up room in my house. These days my concern is more about when Gamestop either stops accepting or highly devalues trade-ins because they are choking on 60 copies of overstock on every title.
Back on topic a bit: I think huge hits like WoW will continue to fragment the market and drive many game-makers to the consoles. From what I have read PC game sales have been slipping for years, while consoles have been gaining. If I were a business, I have to think hard about wanting to compete with WoW and The Sims in a limited marketplace, when otherwise there are tens of millions of consoles. Its actually already happening.
Re:30 hrs a week (Score:3, Interesting)
No New Games Since WoW (Score:2, Interesting)
And three more cheers for Blizzard and their continued support for the Mac Platform!
Re:I'd have to say... (Score:2, Interesting)
For an MMORPG, WoW's pretty much the same basic stuff that's been around since [before] Everquest. It's not really new or innovative in any way.
It's polished certainly (what Blizzard game isn't), but truth be told, Blizzard pulled one of EA's biggest tricks out of the hat with WoW. That is, they applied an already hugely popular franchise (Warcraft) to a routine genre. And heck, even a lot of the main features of the game, such as spells and items, are heavily borrowed from Blizzard's previous games themselves (War III and Diablo II specifically).
That's not to say it's a bad game. It most certainly isn't, as the sales prove. But the only thing Blizzard is doing that differently from EA (and companies like that) is that they're taking time and care to actually polish their titles. But new and innovative? Not really.
Re:I much prefer Guild Wars... (Score:3, Interesting)
Definitely. On the "Thunderhead Keep" mission, going solo (with NPC henchmen) is NOT an option. Near the end of this mission, you're in a fort with two open gates, and two sets of catapults. Several groups of monsters attack the fortress, and you've got to defend it (actually, your goal is to keep a certain NPC King alive, and kill a nasty monster boss, but it basically amounts to defending the fort). Two groups of players have got to defend the two gates, two other players must man the catapults (one for each gate), and two other (player) monks have got to heal the players at the gates (well, the monks aren't strictly necessary, but they make this difficult mission much easier). You just can't do this mission without close co-operation (whereas many/most missions can be done solely with NPCs).
Guild Wars rules! ;-)
Re:Dunno about WoW... (Score:4, Interesting)
You don't need a license to use something you've bought.
You need a license to copy, modify, and distribute it outside of fair-use.
Bnetd's use of the programs was clearly use, they were NOT copying and distributing the copyrighted material (which isn't even available or released) they were simply running the binaries they bought, determining how to interoperate with them, and building THEIR OWN server software to interoperate with those binaries.
So they had no need of a license, and the terms of any license that might have been offered to them doesn't matter, they didn't need any license to do this.
The TOS you refer to are the Terms of Service for battlenet. Bnetd didn't use battlenet, so those terms don't matter either.
Blizzard a victim of their own success in the past (Score:2, Interesting)
I never bought any other game for two or so years. I didn't even feel the urge to try anything new. That game was so good that I spent hours on hours on it. Week after week. For months. Always lingering between 'chobo' and 'gosu', as the strategies of the game evolved, it never ceased being interesting.
Was that good for Blizzard? No. Because I wasn't the only one. They could see the devotion millions (literally) of people showed and they couldn't tap on it. I bet they had really gone crazy. OK, they published an extension, everybody got it, but that was that. And it's a thing that just won't die. (And even Warcraft III, "well, you know, it's OK, but it's not Starcraft." That was a major blow.) Not as popular after its original release (it has been 7 years or so, after all), it still has a strong following. People are asking for Starcraft 2, but only casually.
The new model is good. It's good, because it means that a good game will not only sell more units, but it will also generate revenue for a longer time per unit. Profit is not longer a function of a units, but of units by time. Think profit squared, for a really engaging game.
If they figure out a way to give us Starcraft 2 without our thinking they're ripping us off charging for what was free at Battle.net, I'd expect it any day now. But it's not easy, that's a concept better suited to WoW and the likes.
As I said, just the 2 cents of a former addict.
-m-