The Evolution of MMOGs - Eve Online

Gamasutra is running an article about the Massively Multiplayer Game Eve Online. Information from senior producer Nathan Richardsson gives a look into the development of the largest concurrent MMO on the market. From the article: "Power to the players. Nothing compares to a player that is enabled to affect the universe. We create tools for players to create content. For example, a massive alliance of corporations - our versions of guilds - with real, legendary players, leading them, controlling large areas of space and building up infrastructure is truly awesome content. We can never create that, but we can create the environment and tools enabling to happen. We're also very iterative in our work and keep continuous feedback cycles on the features we do, then regularly improve them based on that feedback. The community is an incredible source for how to improve the game and what they do within the game gives us constant inspiration for what we should implement next. Being so open-ended means the players do what they want and we try to keep up and add support and tools to take emerging behavior further. Embrace and evolve are the keywords here."

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[ebrandsberg]

As a 1 year old player, while I agree with some points (about how long it takes to train up to the battleship (BS) for example), the point of the game is that you don't HAVE to participate in that. I play a combat character, and don't fly BS's, but instead have focused on smaller ships and in doing so could take out most battleships. Pretty much nobody is perfect in any given aread, which if you could be a perfect player, it would completely ruin the game. In the flip side, because the skills are not tied to "kill, get exp, kill more, get exp, level, continue", the game can be enjoyable for even the casual player, as they can keep up with the die-hard players that play for hours every day. This is also one of the few games where you can play the game and not even focus on combat at all, but instead focus on trade, research, mining, etc. And to be clear, I haven't mined for ages, and haven't had to, so your characterization of having to mine is somewhat misleading, because it is what YOU have chosen to do to make ISK (the monetary unit in the game). Yes, this game does have some flaws, but so do every game, but the game iself makes for a very good game. Why else has it been out for several YEARS, yet continue to have more and more players joining it, as opposed to most games that are loosing players after this much time.

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[j0nb0y]

I used to play Jumpgate, a fun little MMO Space Sim. There are no "skills" per se, your skills piloting your ship are your actual skills piloting the ship. I recommend a good joystick for this one =]

There is a bit of a grind, as you need to level up your experience level and your reputation (with 3 different factions) to buy most equipment.

The physics are somewhat realistic. To stop your ship, you have to turn your ship around and reverse thrust. Docking is a little tricky, and new players sometimes mess up and wreck their ships in the process. I have done this more than once =]

At higher speeds, the physics become unrealistic, as your ship will reach a maximum speed based on how powerful your engine is. When I first started playing, it was frustrating to slowly chug through a sector and have higher level players with faster ships just zoom right by.

All in all, I had a lot of fun when I used to play. Here's the URL:

http://www.jossh.com/ [jossh.com]

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[Shinobi]

I want to expand on a point here: Traders: One of the most difficult roles playerwise(Monitoring multiple locations, hauling the stuff quickly etc etc). But a single good trader with the right connections(Yes, you have to be SOCIAL. Who would have guessed that in a MULTI-PLAYER game huh?!?) can do more economic damage to an alliance in just an afternoon than even the best PvP corps can with all their kills.

Re:Not for every taste

[Shinobi]

A friendly advice: Train Navigation 1 if you haven't got it already, then afterburners 1.

And, train your learning skills if you continue with the game! They are essential. Best pattern is: First Instant Recall to lvl 4, then Analytical Mind to lvl 4. After that, Learning to lvl 4. When you're done with those, go for lvl 5 Instant Recall, then Eidetic Memory up to lvl 5. After that, Analytical Mind, finishing it all off with Lvl 5 Learning. Meanwhile, during that training period, just save up for the advanced learning skills. If you've joined a player corp by then, you might even get help to earn that money(If you're allowed to tag along on lvl 4 missions, you can easily make a couple of millions in one night).

When you have trained Eidetic Memory to lvl 4, go to Logic lvl 4. Now you can train the other learning skills such as Spatial Awareness/Focus etc. It's a bit boring, but you'll notice that it pays off even one month later, by cutting training times for later skills down by a lot.

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[Oveur]

As you point out there are some players that absolutely love it. We now have 71.000 customers, experiencing continuous growth since launch, surpassing big titles such as Sims Online, Asherons Call (1&2) and Planetside (See http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart3.html [mmogchart.com]). I can only assume from that fact that your statement is indeed correct and there are some players that absolutely love it ;)

We will however never be a mainstream game and we have never intended to be so. We have a brutal and harsh universe and embrace PVP, and consciously live with the drawbacks of that decision as a cost of doing business. Your experience of being a miner attacked by a pirate a stellar example of such cost. Nevertheless, would EVE be so unique and growing if it didn't have such an extensive PVP system? I seriously doubt it :)

However, I can't agree with your estimation of the skill training system, time required to train to be proficient and the gap between experienced players. I'll go in to some basic details first so everyone reading is on the same page;

In EVE, a skill is trained off-line, each skill involving 5 levels, each level giving an additional cumulated benefit. Since we are talking about combat proficiency, lets take the Small Projectile Turret skill. It allows the Operation of small projectile turrets and gives a 5% Bonus to small projectile turret damage for each level trained, resulting in 25% bonus to damage at level 5.

The key here is to look at levels 1-4 and compare them to training from 4-5. Training from level 1-4 to get an accumulated bonus of 20% takes a day. Training from level 4-5 to get an accumulated bonus of 25% takes a bit more than 6 days. If I have a decent amount of learning skills trained and implants, these numbers would change to 3/4 of a day and 4 days respectively. I can shave more off with better learning skills, better implants and a character in a combat bloodline. I should also mention that advanced learning skills and implants were released considerably after launch, so older players are at a disadvantage, having spent more time achieving the level they are at today compared to the possible speed of a new player.

Therefore, the skill system inherently has a built in favoritism towards new players even though off-line skill training would seem to contradict that simply because you spend relatively more time achieving those extra percentages. Surely, a 2 year player will be better off in general than a 6 month player, but if you train wisely, fit for the occasion and position yourself well, you can have him running too.

Remember, you only need to train for about 5 months to get everything to level 4 which a 2 year character all has to level 5. If you want to advance to higher tech levels however, you start getting training prerequisites of level 5 in certain skills, which again requires you to start selecting what you want to specialize in.

I assume you the 3 years you mention are to train all those skills to level 5 and you are right, if you want to max out the skills, you will need something in that ballpark. But that also means you can use almost any ship and any module from any race in the game and be pretty damn good at it. Currently, nobody has that ability, EVE is only 30 months old.

I'd also like to point out a new feature coming up, which is called "Eye for an Eye" which I believe might help your situation. If someone kills you illegitemately, like you describe, you get an "Eye for an Eye" contract on him which allows you to shoot him down whenever you see him - once. I don't know if that is the kind of retribution you are looking for, but it might be.

Thanks for voicing your concerns, although I don't agree with some of them - but I hope I addressed them to some extent.

Nathan "Oveur" Richardsson
Senior Producer - EVE Online

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[Ice Tiger]

Sorry, messed up the url, it's http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topi c&threadID=228135 [eve-online.com].

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[C0rinthian]

You're right, I don't think the OP was being realistic either. But it is misleading to someone who doesn't know the game. It takes time to max out stuff in Eve. That is by design, and to me is actually a positive. There is a LOT of room for growth on the character level. It's just that unlike other MMO's, you don't have to be maxed to be competitive, and maxing out has a relatively small return compared to the time invested.

It can take a week to get a skill from level 1 to 4, giving say a total bonus of 20% to a stat. Level 5 alone can take a month for an additional 5% bonus. A new player can take 4 different skills from 1 to 4 in the time it takes me to get a single skill from 4 to 5. Thats a 20% bonus to 4 stats vs. a 5% bonus to a single stat.

The built in diminishing returns on skill training greatly favors newer players in that they get a much higher return on their time investment.

The OP's statement is like saying that before you can consider PvP'ing in WoW, you need to get all your tier 2 epic class gear. It just has no relation to the reality of the game.

Re:Not as good as they would have you believe

[C0rinthian]

The fundamental problem with this approach is that it is absolutely impossible for someone starting the game now to ever catch up with a player that started the game a year or more ago.

This is not true. You are basically making the assumption that more Skill Points means they're better at everything. Many older players did not have the advanced skills we do now. I remember a time when training ANYTHING to level 5 was considered a waste of time. So most vets are a "jack of all trades" simply because they ran out of stuff to train for their first choice of profession.

I'll use my own character as an example. I started out as a production character, so I started with mining and manufacture, and the ships best associated with mining. (Gallente at the time)When tech II research began, I switched to sciences. Now I have a couple million SP dedicated to R+D. When those were at an acceptable level, I started looking at dedicated combat. Now, keep in mind that I had passable skills (lvl 3-4) in most combat related stuff, but I didn't start specializing until this point, which was about a year after I started. I changed what races ships I wanted to fly, which meant starting from the bottom again, and I've only just recently finished cruiser and battleship 5 for that race, as well as advanced energy weapon skills.

Essentally, I've near maxed several professions. Mining, production, research, trade, and just recently, combat.

Now, how can you catch up? Simple. Don't try and be everything at once. Pick a field, and you'll be as good as anyone in it in a few months. I have 27 million skillpoints on my character, But a large portion of that has NOTHING to do with combat. Mining skills, science skills, social and trade, corp management, industrial ship skills, etc. I have all these, and they do NOTHING in a fight. All the SP I dedicated to hybrid weapons and Gallente ships are useless when I'm in my Apocalypse using energy weapons.

Pick a role and specialize in it, and you'll catch up VERY quickly in that role. You just can't do everything.