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Sony Media Patents Entertainment Games

The Death of Used Game Sales? 168

Posted by Zonk
from the cruel-media dept.
xtracto writes "The Inquirer has an interesting piece about a new Sony Patent on a technology that may possible prevent DVD disc media users from using their purchased disks in other machines after they have used them on a specific reader. Commentary also available on Joystiq. From the Article: 'While many are aware of the double profit companies make on pre-owned games, this would ensure the death of trading games between friends and even going to a friend's house to play a little multiplayer.'"
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The Death of Used Game Sales?

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  • by TychoCelchuuu (835690) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @03:56PM (#13991360) Journal
    And what if you upgrade your DVD drive? Are you screwed? I'll believe the tech when I see it. I'm not sure Sony has the guts to try something this restrictive.
    • by jelloshotgun (891531) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:00PM (#13991392) Homepage
      ...Or if your PS3 dies? I had a PS2 die on me, and buying another one was bad enough. Having to re-buy the games to go with a replaced system would certainly make the situation more enjoyable... :/
      • Hell, add to that. I know people that have multiple units often families... one for kids and one for the parents, or people who are on the go lots and can toss one in the car at the hotel or whatnot.

        Can anyone see a single reason for this other than greed or (moreso) stupidity?
      • My xbox was stolen today! They didn't take my games. If the xbox used this technology, then I wouldn't bother with a replacement, and just get the competition's machine.

        yeesh.
    • by Chyeld (713439)
      Because that's almost as bad as installing a rootkit on your machine as a trojan, one opens your computer up to all sorts of nasty tricks if you have it installed and someone else comes along to exploit it?

      Sony would never do that, right? They are a responsible company which looks out for the consumer of their products?

      Lets face it, Sony's had a break from reality, they'll pull this crap in an instant as long as it doesn't cost them much more in production.
      • I'm not saying Sony isn't totally willing to pull crazy stuff on us. I just think that a DVD that only works on one player is going to be much harder to sell to the public than a hidden rootkit use for music copywright protection on a limited number of discs that the average person has no hope of understanding. Companies don't think in degrees of badness (IE a rootkit is far worse than draconian DRM) but rather what they can get away with.
      • Seriously ... don't worry ... Sony is evil but not stupid. This is just an R&D lab patenting an invention. No where does it actually say sony will implement this in the PS3.
    • Just like no software company would have the guts to key their OS to one machine.

      This is the future as the big companies see it. With bandwidth being so cheap, and so much of their product being little more than 0's and 1's, they feel they need to do something to continue making a buck.

      I'm not happy with it, but I can also see why they are doing it.

    • And they would never install a rootkit on your computer either...
    • Making the DVDs unreadable on a new system could be interpreted as "malicious injury of property". So unless Sony tells buyers of the PS3 upfront about the system (which might be bad for marketing), IMHO (IANAL) affected customers could sue with good chances of success.
      The whole scheme looks like they want to shoot themselves in the other knee now, after the recent rootkit affair.
  • by Dark Paladin (116525) * <jhummelNO@SPAMjohnhummel.net> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @03:57PM (#13991370) Homepage
    I would never buy another Playstation game again.

    Of course, with Sony's DRM kick and some other things, they're making it easier for me to decide to ban them outright. I can live without a lot of movies (I have 3 small children, so I hardly go these days anyway).

    So if they want to break the existing system in the hopes of getting more money, then screw them. I have an entire back catalog of games I haven't gotten around to playing. I can wait a few years.

    Can you, Sony? Yes, I know, you won't miss me. But I wonder how many other people you'd piss off along the way - and in a looming battle between Microsoft and Nintendo, can you *really* take that risk?

    Well? Do you feel lucky, punk? (Apologies to Clint. I couldn't help myself.)
    • It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that sony is the primary force behind the riaa and mpaa. They develop the drm technologies and fight for changes to the laws that favor them. So from now on I won't be buying any of their hardware.
    • Not to mention destroy the ability to rent games, which is where I get most of my games. Possibly they want to charge rental places for a more expensive universal copy... But then thats where the pirates would get their copy..
    • So if they want to break the existing system in the hopes of getting more money, then screw them. I have an entire back catalog of games I haven't gotten around to playing. I can wait a few years.

      I'm glad you got a well-deserved +5 Insightful. This describes a host of gamers out there. There are probably 15 games (or more) for current-generation consoles that I would like to play and haven't yet. For me, that translates into a good solid 4 years of busy gaming, and perhaps 100% of them will be purchased se

  • If you took your disk to a friends, presumably you'd take your pc too?

    One obvious problem with their system is playing your disk on a replacement device, or are they going to replace your whole game library whenever you get a new unit because of shoddy workmanship on the previous one?
    • If you took your disk to a friends, presumably you'd take your pc too?
      I don't know about you, but I keep at least one "guest" PC in my home. If you ever have small LAN parties, this is a must... especially for your CRT-using friends.
  • So what happens when the PS3 dies and you have to get a new one? Does that also mean it is time to get a new set of games? -Citoahc
  • are they nuts? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by czarangelus (805501) <iapetus@NosPam.gmail.com> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @03:58PM (#13991382)
    No f'in way I'm buying a PS3 if this happens. Almost all my games are bought used - it makes it a lot easier on those who are gaming on a limited budget. If this happens, I'm going to end up the proud new owner of a Nintendo Revolution.
  • Just because they have a patent doesn't mean they are going to use it. Nobody at Sony would be stupid enough to implement this on the PS3. If they did, gamers would view Sony on the same level at the Phantom Game Console.
    • I would have thought the same thing, but Sony was stupid enough to ship a rootkit on some 2 million CDs. So, yeah, you can look forward to it in the PS3.
      • (edited for brevity)

        CALLY: Sooner or later, Blake is going to attack Federation Central Control on Earth itself. And for that attack we shall need all the weapons we can get.

        BLAKE: And where better to get them than the Weapons Development Base?

        AVON: It is a triple-A security installation.

        VILA: We have got into those before.

        AVON: Usually with your screams of protest ringing in our ears. Are you telling me that you're in favor of this idea?

        VILA: No, not exactly, I just don't think it's stupi
    • by DreamerFi (78710) <john@NosPaM.sinteur.com> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:39PM (#13991858) Homepage
      Nobody at Sony would be stupid enough to implement this on the PS3.
       
      You must be new here.
       
  • No, not really... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shads (4567) <shadus.shadus@org> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:00PM (#13991394) Homepage Journal
    ... it just ensures that the first time I get a game like this and the system fails that I sue Sony. Alternately, it may ensure that *everyone* starts burning copies of their games.

    Copy protection as it currently exists hurts no one but legitimate purchasers of the material. It costs the pirates maybe a few hours of time or in worst case a day.

    So long as the hardware isn't secured, the data that is being read in it can't be secured.

    Alot of this new BS with sony and drm/copy protection/etc is seriously making me consider NOT buying a PS3. I don't want to support this kind of stupidity.

    Be the first significant console I didn't own since the Nintendo days.
      • Alot of this new BS with sony and drm/copy protection/etc is seriously making me consider NOT buying a PS3. I don't want to support this kind of stupidity.

      Smart move. Talking with your wallet is the loudest you could possible talk.

      If you're serious about keeping money away from them, find alternatives to the PS3 and let your friends know about what Sony is doing.
      Personally I'm very loyal to companies who make good products but I will crack 100% of the games I purchase to get rid of these ridiculous

  • do something major to make the 360 seem like the better choice. Yeah Sony took a BFG to their foot.
  • Does Sony plan to employ this technology in the PlayStation 3? Not likely. If so, PS3 owners would not be able to rent (used) games or borrow their friends' games--or even purchase used games! Sure, the technology could be used for Blu-Ray movies, but for games? It just won't go down like that... right?
    I think they're looking at this as more of an anti-piracy menu, but I don't think they'll actually use it. They realize the market they'll lose...hopefully...
  • What if my player breaks and I have to get a new one? I don't think this is going to go through unnoticed by people.
  • The technology would allow an authentication code to be read and then rendered unreadable

    Wait a sec. If it is rendered unreadable, then how can the same machine read it next time you put the disk in?
    • by axoi (150528)
      The only way this would work is if the console or dvd drive or system has nvram that recorded the license code ( or whatever it is ) and made some type of hash from the disk to go with it. That way when the same disk is inserted the same hash is created and verified against the license number. If it exists they can play otherwise no.

      Sounds like digital suicide. How long before this gets cracked and everyone has a full blown nvram full of game licenses? About two weeks.

      - Bill
  • Oh, Sony, you always have our best interests in mind.
  • death? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by cryptoz (878581)
    While many are aware of the double profit companies make on pre-owned games, this would ensure the death of trading games between friends and even going to a friend's house to play a little multiplayer.

    The death of trading games? Sure. Just like DRM has brought about the death of trading music. Yep! That's going to happen! When oh when will the "death of..." articles stop?!
  • Legit, bought and paid for, just don't wanna deal with the hassle copy protection puts on you, or your source for warez. Whatever the reason ... LONG LIVE USENET!

    http://www.giganews.com/ [giganews.com] combined with http://www.newzbin.com/ [newzbin.com]

    PS - Who the fuck needs TIVO -- alt.binaries.tv -- if it ain't in there it wasn't worth watching anyway...
  • While it is easy to jump to the conclusion that this would be used on their DVDs and games, I don't think this is the aim of this technology. Even Sony isn't that oblivious to the marketplace. This technology is probably intended for either high end software protection, i.e. $1k+ or disks ment for VERY limited distribution. I could see this as a product they would offer to companies that sell professional software for limited applications.
  • On alienating yet more customers. I haven't bought my own console since the n64 (i gennerally stick with hand helds). I was planning on buying either a revolution or a PS3 when they come out.

    My friends and I are constantly playing games on eachothers systems. Not because we don't want to buy the games ourselves but more often because either their own system died or because they can't get to their system (one of my friends lives a 3hr drive away and when he comes up he brings his games but not is PS3). We
  • many are aware of the double profit companies make on pre-owned games, this would ensure the death of trading games between friends and even going to a friend's house to play a little multiplayer.'


    And if your own personal console/player/reader dies and you have to replace it, you now have to replace these "protected" discs? Bullshit.
  • Psst.. sony.. if you want to lock people in to certain hardware, the idea is generally to lock them in so they will /keep buying new versions of the hardware/. If "upgrading" requires all new software, the point is lost.
  • You want to stop piracy? Stop making it so profitable for pirates. Lower your prices to the point were piracy isn't profitable anymore. How you do that is something I really dont have a clue on, but hey thats not my problem.
  • Well... I guess when (if) this happens, I won't be getting as much games for a while, I'm not going to want to spend $50 on a game certain reviews and such say is good and turns out to be crap. I'd rather waste $5 and play it for a few days, (renting) and if I like it, then spend $50. Otherwise I'll just wait a year or so until the price gets down to $20. And about Sony and it's DRM, it's not going to affect my purchasing of the PS3. I don't see how DRM affects me playing a console game (excluding the stat
  • No worries. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HunterZ (20035) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:20PM (#13991629) Journal
    This is NOT going to happen. Many major game retailers (e.g. GameStop) make a significant amount of money on pre-owned (used) game sales. You can bet that they'll fight Sony tooth-and-nail to keep them from implementing any system that permanently binds a game disc to a single console.

    It's also a pretty ridiculous idea, as I know a lot of people who bring together their games and/or consoles to have parties and whatnot. This kind of (legal, by the way) game trading and loaning is a form of free word-of-mouth advertising for game companies.

    Going back all the way to my Atari 2600 in the early 80s, I can remember buying way more console games after having borrowed a friend's copy or renting a copy from a store that I have from reading useless magazine ads and reviews.
    • How are they going to make this work for major rental outfits. Blockbuster would have a fit.

      At the very least they'll need to create two formats of the game... one for fixed-machines and one for allowing rentals. All in all this makes the whole process more of a pain in the ass for everyone, Sony included.
    • It's also a pretty ridiculous idea, as I know a lot of people who bring together their games and/or consoles to have parties and whatnot. This kind of (legal, by the way) game trading and loaning is a form of free word-of-mouth advertising for game companies.

      I'm really shocked that people actually believe that this will be implemented, especially after so many were fooled by the supposed Microsoft play once then self-destruct DVD plan from 5 weeks ago [slashdot.org].
  • The line up so far (Score:5, Interesting)

    by RyoShin (610051) <tukaro@gmaBOYSENil.com minus berry> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:21PM (#13991646) Homepage Journal
    Sony - Playstation 3 (confirmed name)
    +Blu-ray drive
    +Lean Mean Sony Company Gaming Machine look
    +Backwards compatible with PS2/PS1 games
    +Games: Final Fantasy series, GTA series (first serve, anyway)
    -Lock out technology to make sure that when a review says a game has no replay value, that means no one else can replay it, either
    -Probably makes lousy burgers
    -Expensive
    -Same old controllers

    Microsoft - XBox 360 (confirmed name)
    +First to launch
    +XBox Live features
    +Games: Halo, ... Halo.
    +It's white?
    -Plain old DVD drive (no advanced drive- what is their's, HD-DVD?)
    -Only partial backwards compatibility
    -Same old controllers

    Nintendo - Revolution (tentative name)
    +Smallest of the three systems
    +Innovative, new controller interface
    +Backwards compatibility for the past 20 years
    +Ability for controller attachments greatly increases game immersion and developer freedom
    +Games: Zelda, Mario, Smash Brothers, Metroid
    -Regular DVD drive
    -Lack of HDTV support (IIRC, it has high resolution, but not HDTV)
    -Arms or wrists could wear out faster than after a "session" with certain Pamela Anderson videos (this remains to be seen)
    -Ability for controller attachments could overwhelm people who get 15 different types (there are already two "official" regular attachments- the Ninchuck and the shell)

    Personally, I was leaning towards a Revolution when they first revealed the console, and I'm hard set on it now that I know about the controller. Sony's attempts at similar "prevention" in other technology realms ("P.C. phone home") helps make my mind up. Sony can keep their anti-customer DRM and Spider-man font. They won't get another cent from me.
    • by heli0 (659560) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @05:32PM (#13992431)
      Nintendo - Revolution (tentative name)
      +Backwards compatibility for the past 20 years


      Not quite that simple. Where exactly do I insert the NES, SNES and N64 games that I already own? I will have to buy them again to get the privilege of playing them on an emulator on the Rev, and even this is limited to the games from publishers that agree to be part of this whole system.

      Even old NES games will probably cost "a couple of pounds" according to Nintendo: http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61 604 [eurogamer.net]
      • Yeah, that can be a problem. It would be nice if they have some sort of "trade in" system, where you send in a cart and get a voucher good for the game download.

        For people who have owned games in the past, but don't own them now, most will probably be more than happy to rebuy their favorite games, especially if they only cost a few dollars.

        Even so, it's still better than just offering Gamecube compatibility.

        One way this could work is if they had a card system, like iTunes, where you can purchase "credit" fo
      • yeah re-buying can be a pita but thats the console buisness for you :(

        btw have you ever tried the gameboy player? it screws to the bottom of your gamecube and lets you play everything an gameboy advance will play (and a very large proportion of nintendos classics have had some form of gameboy port) without having to put up with the tiny screen of a portable device.

        • [The Game Boy Player accessory] screws to the bottom of your gamecube and lets you play everything an gameboy advance will play (and a very large proportion of nintendos classics have had some form of gameboy port)

          Not exactly:

          1. Game Boy Advance plays tilt-sensor games (such as Kirby Tilt n Tumble, WarioWare Twisted!, and Yoshi Topsy-Turvy). Game Boy Player does not because there is no way to use the Control Stick to override the tilt sensor.
          2. Game Boy Advance plays sunlight-sensor games (such as the Bok
          • is there any reason you can't link multiple gameboy players? do they give a reason for reccomending against doing it?

            i can see how tilt sensor games would be a pain to play you'd have to tilt the whole gamecube.

            i'd think sunlight sensor games would be possible with some care, just because the sensor can see the sun doesn't mean the rest of the kit has to indeed using the gameboy in the sun is pretty horrid in my experiance anyway (imo there are only two ways to make a gba screen decent, carefully directed a
  • This company is blowing up from the inside!
  • I can only hope this technology is only going to be used to stop disc copies to work. If they intend to lock a game disc to a console, they are going to be opening themselves to a class action. What happens when you accidentally break your PS3, and purchase a new one? I think most people will be very upset if they even just have to contact tech support. Can you take your game to a friends for a night of multiplayer mayhem? If Sony limits any of this (not even taking the used game market into account), t
  • Isn't this the point of CD keys? I mean, who in their right mind would buy a used copy of Half-Life, Starcraft, Guild Wars, Neverwinter Nights, etc.?
    • Most of these systems lock the game to a license/user. Take Valve's Steam program for example. Your CD key(s) are locked to your user account. Your account cannot be signed in from more than one machine, but you can sign in to that account from any computer that has Steam. Thus if your computer is fried by some klutz spilling soda on it, or you upgrade or just replace it entirely (or want to play at a friend's house), you simply log in to Steam using your own account. The difference compared with Sony'
  • More people will download their games illegally to circumvent the DRM bullshit, and enjoy free games as a side benefit. "Hey, I'd love to support the industry by buying the game, but the game is more functional this way".

    For more on driving people to illegally copy games, see the mod detection Sony put in games that made them not work on a modded PS1... unless you burned the game onto another CD. That's right, only illegal games would run on modded PS1s. "Well, I was gonna actually buy this one, but oh w
  • Discouraging used game sales is a good thing, since stores refuse to stop hurting developers. Doing it this way is very bad, since they are compromising user rights and preventing casual sales.

    I'm not against casual used sales (Selling to friends, ebay, lending), but I am against stores like BestBuy ripping off customers by paying out next to nothing and reselling for almost retail, while promoting these before new sales. This screws the original owners, the buyers (Paying too much and sometimes getting a v
    • by Chyeld (713439) <chyeld&gmail,com> on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:47PM (#13991954)
      First off, I take it you've never been to a used book store? Never used eBay, an auction, or even Goodwill?

      What's so special about game developers that they deserve protection from their products being resold used that the rest of the world doesn't have?

      I don't see a problem with selling or purchasing used games at a small fraction of the cost of a new package as long as the games themselves are marked as used and aren't already 'tied' to an individual like most MMO's are.

      Secondly, if a developer can't get the majority of people to purchase their games at the new game price point, that's a good sign their product deserves the bargin bin or that they need to lower their prices.
      • First off, I take it you've never been to a used book store? Never used eBay, an auction, or even Goodwill?

        Think of Chapters (in Canada) or Barnes & Nobles promoting used books before new books, and you'd be closer. Used book stores don't push the kind of volume as megastores do in new products. Ebay/auctions also mainly involve people selling directly to other people.

        What's so special about game developers that they deserve protection from their products being resold used that the rest of the world doe
        • ...with a book, once the publisher prints and sells it, that is the end of their involvement. Game developers are expected to provide warranties, support, and online resources (servers) for games after sale, and they often do even when the users don't have a right to it...

          Bull Hockey! I have stacks binders full of game CD's in my computer room and I can move the complete list of ones which provided more than a cursory amount of effort into after-sales support into half a binder and still probably have ro

        • Because with a book, once the publisher prints and sells it, that is the end of their involvement. Game developers are expected to provide warranties, support, and online resources (servers) for games after sale, and they often do even when the users don't have a right to it.

          Maybe for MMOs. On-line multiplayer? Well, if user is paying for an account, it matters not really whether the software is bought new or used, because the big $$$ are in the subscriptions, right? If not, and it's really a bitch about mo
    • No....

      1: It does not screw the sellers. There are any number of other channels that people can use to sell their old games, such as the ones you mentioned - Ebay, direct sales to friends, local mom and pop stores, etc. If someone elects to sell a used game to Best Buy, they have done so of their own free choice.
      2: It does not screw the buyers either. Again, if you want you can buy your games somewhere else. Best Buy is going to sell the games at a market price (you know, since we have free markets and a

      • 1) So, Microsoft never was and never will be a monopoly or anti-competitive, because there are always other operating systems?

        2) As I said, if developers drop prices, so will the stores. The used price will always be a raw deal for everybody but the store.

        3) I never said the entire use game market, only the megastores that are doing the damage. Used cars don't suddenly get a brand new extended warranty with the original manufacturer every time somebody buys it used. Game developers have to because of the ba
        • And don't forget that all those Trade-In programs make it super easy for folks to steal your stuff and trade it in for store credit, no questions asked. "And would you like a Disk Doctor with that, sir?"
        • 1) Microsoft owns roughly 95% of the desktop computing market. Yes, that is a monopoly. Show me a retail chain that owns that percentage of the used game market and then this comparison might make some sense.

          2) I was comparing mega-stores for other used game channels - not the original developers themselves. I've never bought a used game from Best Buy, because the prices are better at Ebay and at other stores. If people are buying at Best Buy they are not getting screwed - they have voted with their dolla

    • I'm not against casual used sales (Selling to friends, ebay, lending), but I am against stores like BestBuy ripping off customers by paying out next to nothing and reselling for almost retail, while promoting these before new sales.

      Just to et you know, because of fixed price console games, retailers make a bare minimum of margin on selling brand new games and consoles. A friend of mine who worked in a game store claimed the margin for the store on selling a new console was ~$2, whereas for a new console the
    • Releasing alpha/beta game demos to the media for previews - to cut down on sharing and leakage
    • Customizable games - this virtual pet is tied to this PS3
    • MMOs which normally use Account-keys to ensure unique, registered copies of a game
    • Spycraft ...
  • Approximately 2 years into owning it my PS2 broke and I got a new one. Or what if your drive breaks under warranty and Sony replaces it? How would this new system act under these likely and legal situations?
  • So does this mean everytime my Sony PlayStation system fails because it is made out of crap parts, I have to repurchase my entertainment library. F'em. This is insane.
  • The console noone buys. Lets see, I can't rent games, can't bring it to a friends to play, can't trade with my friends to try out a game. This would pretty much assure that I only by the Revolution next round. And it'll push a large, large chunk of their other customers into Xbox/Revolution as well.
  • So when my PS3 breaks (and it will, all of Sony's consoles are made to break and be rebought), then I will be unable to play the games that I purchased and "own".

    It is the next generation of Sony's (successful) plan to continue selling playstations to people who already own (a broken) one. Not only do the consoles break, but the games do too!

    As much as I complain, I will still get one for MGS4 and a few other choice titles =[
  • by dtfinch (661405) * on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @04:49PM (#13991979) Journal
    Do I have to buy new games? Or what if I upgrade to a newer release of their console that claims backward compatibility, but most of my games won't work because they're locked into the older, obsolete console?
  • If this is implemented in the PS3 and elsewhere, it would completely kill the game rental business. Gamefly.com would go out of business and places like Blockbuster would stop carrying games.

    Also I assume that once the PS4 game out there would be no backwards compatibility since none of the discs would work anyway.
  • If you remember the Divx DVD players at Circuit City, you will remember failure. A technology like that was precisely what Divx did. That leads me to the assumption that they would use the technology for something else. One use is region encoding (post-purchase). Another use may be full-version game demos that can be disabled after X hours unless you buy or rent the game license. And yet another use may be in lieu of a CD Product Key for MMORPG.

    I also believe that some smart modder would discover how to
  • Publishers (Score:4, Informative)

    by heli0 (659560) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @05:39PM (#13992509)
    Don't forget that this is on their wish list.

    http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_sto ry.php(que)id=125925%22 [computeran...ogames.com]

    Mark Rein, Vice President of Epic Games
    "If you walk into EB in the US, they try and sell you a second hand version of a game before a new one. I think that's bad. It would be fine if they share that revenue with us. They can also be marketing partners with us as well. We can have an official refurbished games policy. That's the problem. Those resold games use server resources, tech support. The majority of guys calling up saying "I don't have my serial number", I'm sure a lot of those are resold. It costs us money. Those customers think they paid for it, and they're entitled to support. The reality is, we didn't get paid. They didn't pay us."
    • Re:Publishers (Score:3, Interesting)

      by llevity (776014)
      You know, as much as I hate to agree with the evil publishers, they have a valid point.

      Their marketing likely contributed to Joe Blow walking into the store looking for the game, yet they don't get to recoup that money through revenue if Joe buy's a used copy of the game. The support issue is also valid.

      It wouldn't be as big of a deal if it were people selling their old games at yard sales, or even individuals clearing out their collection on eBay. But this is facilitated and organized by fairly large

      • First Sale Doctrine.

        I've bought several used books (hey, we've all been to college now, haven't we?) that were sitting right next to their brand new brethren on the same shelf. The used book trade does well for Powell's Books (think of it this way: Every resale of a used book through the store is probably going to net the store 50% margin).

        Car dealerships these days probably make as much as, or more, from their associated used car side businesses.

        Etc.

        • Good points, but books do not have support costs associated with them. Cars do, but after a relatively short period of time, the warranty expires and then the consumer pays for his support costs.

          I'm sure it's not as big of a deal as the publishers would like to make it seem, but the nature of software is unique from the typically tangible things that First Sale applies to, and it doesn't seem fair to the publisher that places like EB are making a killing off of someone else's work while the publisher get

  • Instead of investing the hundreds of thousands (millions?) of dollars in researching and developing these anti-copying techniques (most of which get hacked anyway) how about they NOT spend that money, and cut the cost of the systems AND/OR the games by, oh lets say.. half?

    In many cases, if price is the only issue, halving the price will more than double the sales. The latest game console system I have is a Nintendo 64. After EBGames said they've give me $7 trade-in value (not just cash, but trade-in value f
  • by Castar (67188) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @06:08PM (#13992798)
    First off, this is speculation based on a patent from 2001 in Japan, and patented in the US in 2004. So it's not brand new.

    Secondly, there's already a system in place to do this for Online games at least - the DNAS copy-protection system can enable this behavior (locking the disc to a specific console) but no publishers enable it, for the obvious reason that it would piss a lot of people off.

    While console makers would no doubt like to stop second-hand sales, I think they realize that people would be less likely to buy the hardware if they're unable to play second-hand games, and that game retailers make most of their money on second-hand games - killing that market would kill the retailers.

    Of course, I woudl have said the same things about rootkits on audio CDs. So we'll see.
  • If nobody buys the games new, there won't be any used games to sell again later.
  • I happen to be one of the weird guys out there who collects video games as a hobby, primarily for classic game systems like the Atari 2600 and Colecovision, but also more recent systems like the Sega Dreamcast. If this move is successful and the second-hand market is eliminated, my hobby is pretty much screwed. 10 years from now if I decide I want to play a game that was only released on the PS3, what will my options be? Finding a sealed copy that hasn't been imprinted on a system yet will be exceptionally
  • They're all sorts of crazy over at Sony, maybe even this crazy. All we know for sure is that they've patented the technology, which means less and less given the insanity of our patent system. Are they shooting themselves in the foot? Or just making sure that they can license FootBullet(TM) technology to their competitors?

    As with most rumors like this, file it under "Unconscionable If True".
  • I'm not buying a PS3. The Revolution will be the only next-gen console I'll buy.

    Good job shooting yourself in the foot, Sony. When I bought my last PS2 game, I bought it because I borrowed a friend's copy, and liked it so much I wanted a copy for myself. I doubt I'd have bought it if I hadn't tried it out first. This bullshit is going to cost Sony so much money...
  • by pornking (121374) on Wednesday November 09, 2005 @08:10PM (#13993821)

    The article describes Sony's new patent, and then speculates on one possible use for it. Everyone here seems to have their panties in a bunch based on that alone.

    • Sony is a large company that is actively involved in DRM research.
    • Sony files a patent for some DRM technology.
    • The PS3 will be out RSN.

    Therefore The PS3 will incorporate said technology.

    QED

    I think a few people here are overdue for a nap.

    • I guess you're unaware of the fact that Sony ALREADY uses DRM in their music CDs.
      Oh and its most recent attempt isn't their first either.
      And then theres the whole backing of the RIAA and the MPAA in their 'anti-piracy' efforts.
      And lets not forget their regional locking of PSP games.

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