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Displays Entertainment Games

Xbox 360 Video Comparison 78

Posted by Zonk from the one-of-these-things-is-not-like-the-other dept.
GameSpot Hardware writes "GameSpot has compiled a detailed evaluation of what to expect from the upcoming Xbox 360 based on the type of cabling that you are forced to use. The article shows multiple image overlays to show the quality difference created when you take the unit down from its high definition origins." From the article: "In the name of gaming science, we went out and purchased an RF modulator just to see how our 360 looks using the connection. Unsurprisingly, the RF cable offered the worst image quality of all the cable types we tested. Even with our Canon S400, the colors appeared noticeably more faded, akin to a '70s-esque sepia effect. That might look OK if you're taking shots of your friends discoing out to Saturday Night Fever, but it doesn't fly while playing Xbox 360 games."
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Xbox 360 Video Comparison More

Xbox 360 Video Comparison

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  • is that they didn't include DVI.
    This alone is enough to make me not buy one.
    I hope Sony doesn't make the same mistake with the PS3, although I'm now loathed to give Sony any money since that whole CD Protection rootkit thing.

    • Re:Obvious shortcomning in Xbox360 spec (Score:4, Informative)

      by the computer guy nex ( 916959 ) on Thursday November 17, 2005 @12:28PM (#14053204)
      Microsoft researched this and found there was no quality difference between component and HDMI. They did you a favor by not offering 150$ cables that were no improvement, but I'm sure you weren't ever buying a 360 anyway.
      • $150 cables? Wow, someone's been hanging around AV shops too much. You can get much much cheaper (around $10) DVI/HDMI cables that will do just as good a job as long as it's fairly short (2-3 metres at most) and you don't tape it next to the power cable or anything.

        While the video carried over the cables isn't error checked or corrected (HDMI audio is error corrected, if anyone cares), it takes a hell of a lot more interference to put noticable faults in a digital signal, than it does analogue.

        I also find i
      • hold on... youre telling me that microsoft [the maker of the xbox360] said that HDMI [the spec that their competitor is using in their ps3] is no better than component connectors? sounds like FUD.

        you are right that they did you a favor by not including more expensive cabling, AICBW but IIRC HDMI /is/ better than component connections.
        • I have a high-end theater in my home, with an Infocus 7205 projecting onto a 160" scren (that's over thirteen feet diagonal).

          During the installation, I very carefully compared component video quality against DVI video quality using a high-end DVD player. With good component cables and proper calibration, no one in my family (myself included) was able to tell the difference between the two.

          My theater is about the most demanding environment you can find, with a very large screen, completely dark room, and a
    • I think the point of the OP was that no dvi = no hooking it up to his LCD monitor. I agree, it would be nice to have the option of DVI....but it is a console made for being played in front of a TV. The audience for a VGA/DVI hookup would be so limited it wouldn't be worth it. Also, if someone was going to sit in front of a monitor at a desk to play a game, they might as well play a PC game to begin with. Half of the appeal of console systems is being able to play them in your livingroom.
    • Why do people obsess about DVI? I can't even get certain deinterlacing applications to work right over it, and there is no quality difference at all on a 21" LCD. I'm glad that said 21" LCD has 2 VGA inputs too, otherwise I would have returned it. I'll never buy a monitor that only inputs DVI, and I'll never buy a video card that only outputs DVI. Besides, with all the awful video DRM that's on the way, isn't having an analog option a good thing?
      • "I'll never buy a video card that only outputs DVI."

        You know almost all(like 99.9%) of video cards with DVI ports are DVI-I which includes VGA in the extra pins. I have seen some ancient compaq TNT2s that were DVI-D, but those are were far outside the norm.

        DVI-V = no digital signal, just vga rearranged (I've never seen one of these)
        DVI-D = only digital, no vga. Generally this is what a monitor's DVI port is
        DVI-I = both digital and analog, you can hook this one up to anything(you need an adapter for
        • I was running DVI-out to DVI-in, and DScaler wouldn't do anything (I use a tv tuner for s-video and composite input), the screen just stuck. Switched back to VGA-VGA, without even closing the program, and everything was fine. In any case, I wasn't interested in DVI anymore since I got absolutely no benefit from it, and it caused problems.

          I haven't tried DVI-out to VGA-in with a converter for lack of a converter, but you have made me wonder what the specs on those ports are. Might be good to watch for if
      • >> Besides, with all the awful video DRM that's on the way, isn't having an analog option a good thing?

        Only if you never want to play/see any DRM-encrypted media.

        Anything DRM-encrypted will not be decryptable (therefore viewable) by hardware that doesn't support DRM en/decryption end-to-end. Meaning your analog-only card and monitor.

  • Obviously (Score:3, Insightful)

    by the computer guy nex ( 916959 ) on Thursday November 17, 2005 @12:21PM (#14053129)
    The quality of the Xbox360's graphics will only be as good as the weakest link. You need a 720p compatible TV, component cables, and a direct connection (no VCR passthroughs). Any less and you aren't getting your money's worth.
    • And Xbox 360 connected to Composite cables passing through the VCR and to the TV will look better than an Xbox or PS2 connected to Composite cables passing through the VCR and to the TV.

      What's your bloody point?
    • Are there still people gaming on anything less than 720p campatible TV's?

      Just kidding.

      But seriously within the next couple years, if it isn't true already, 720p will be the standard minimum for all media. Honestly I couldn't image spending $400+ to play video games and not have them hooked up to anything not capable of 1080i. In the course of a video game sysem you will spend well over 2k on it, so why not buy yourself a decent tv to go with it. You can get 1080i for less that $1000 (I payed $1300
  • I understand how important it is to have vibrant images as part of a great gaming experience, but this review gave me the sensation that if I don't own an HDTV, the resolution task force is going to come to my house with clubs. Not only did I save myself $400 dollars by getting my desposit back, I saved myself the price of a new HDTV that I don't have (and can't afford anyway).

    Somehow, I don't feel like I'm losing anything by gaming on PC anymore.
    • If graphics are your holy grail in gaming then no, you're not missing anything at all.
      • Well, what other reason is there to buy an Xbox 360 now when your old consoles are still working?
        • The games, the new features of Live, the marketplace, the new controller, the (unfortunate) multimedia capabilities?

          And whether or not you're seeing the very best visuals your Xbox 360 can produce, they'll still be better than what the Xbox and PS2 could produce on the same setup. So why must people continue to bitch?
          • Games? The only game that's worth buying seems to be PGR 3 and is that enough to buy a 400$ console for it? Sure, there's going to be more games in the future but that's not a reason to buy the system NOW.
            New features of Live? Well, they're not that useful without games to play on Live.
            New Controller? Perhaps but once again I wonder what that's going to help when you don't have any games.
            Multimedia Capabilities? Um, is there anything new? Okay, so it takes streams from PCs but didn't some XBMC thingamajig a

            • The only game that's worth buying seems to be PGR 3 and is that enough to buy a 400$ console for it? Sure, there's going to be more games in the future but that's not a reason to buy the system NOW.

              "The only game worth buying" is a matter of opinion. I personally can't wait for NHL 2k6 on the 360, but I don't expect you to feel my sentiments (I know, that's such a novel approach to these kinds of things, isn't it?). Yes, I own it on Xbox but I also want it on the 360. Perfect Dark Zero and Kameo both look

    • I would be all about PC gaming if you could play multiplayer games on one computer. I primarily play games as a social activity, hanging out with my friends together in the living room. I have an extra computer that I can put in the living room for games, but I don't have four.

  • Pretty weak article (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Thursday November 17, 2005 @12:26PM (#14053186)

    I don't know why the authors of this article felt it necessary to go out of their way to demonstrate just how sucky a RF connector makes the XBox picture...if you drop that much money on an XBox, and you don't have a television in your house with so much as a composite input, you're officially too stupid to play video games (which is truly stupid indeed).
    • Along the same lines, the author would have done much better to just talk subjectively about the image quality. The one included screenshot was a crappy demonstration except to indentify that RF is ancient tech. And not to knock the SD400 (I own one), but a nicer DSLR with better color representation probably would've helped me feel like I can trust the images.

    • Re:Pretty weak article (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ThePolkapunk ( 826529 ) on Thursday November 17, 2005 @12:42PM (#14053371) Homepage
      So your definition of stupidity is based on how much money a person has?
      • If a person has enough money to plunk down for an XBox 360, they almost certainly have enough money for a TV with composite input (or a used VGA monitor laying around). If someone only has enough money for an RF input, I think that clearly, they should be looking in the used market for an older Playstation, N64, Dreamcast, what-have-you.
        • Some people prefer the content to the games over the visual quality of the games. Those people interested in the games themselves that are present on XBOX 360, but do not have the money to buy the system AND a new TV will still buy the system.

          Visual quality of video games is not all that matters.
          • Visual quality of video games is not all that matters.

            In terms of the XBox360, it is. There is no new gameplay with the 360, it's all the same type of games with better graphics.

            I agree with the grandparent, if you're going to get a 360... get a better tv first or stick with the original xbox.

      • Nope. It's how the SPEND the money.

        Buying an Xbox360 and hooking it up to a 20 year old TV.. or buying an Xbox and hooking it up to a new, $200 TV. The former will look like complete crap, and have very few games available to play. The latter will get you hundreds of games, with better visual quality.

        Seeing as the sole reason for the Xbox360 is the improvement in graphics capabilities (unless there's some new feature I'm missing), I'd agree with the parent. Stupid.
      • I think his point was that if you don't have the money for a good, modern TV but you spend $300-$400 for a new game console, you're stupid.
    • I think the main problem there was a very poor-quality RF converter. RF and composite aren't that different if the TV set is even halfway decent. The RF signal is the composite signal shifted up from the baseband and with audio added in on a different frequency. Sounds like either the RF modulator was crap or the TV has a piss-poor comb filter (if it's an HDTV, that's pretty much a given -- the RF inputs on those are an afterthought). If I have to use a TV without composite inputs, it's best to use a VC
    • Umm, seeing as how the actual number of TV sets that meet your criteria are pretty small overall, I'd say most people with a 360 will be too stupid to play them.

      S-video is probably the best connection most will see, with the large majority being composite. Let's not kid ourselves, it ships with composite and that is what most will be using.
      • Your post doesn't make any sense. First you say the number of TV that meet his criteria is very small. Then you say most people will use composite, which was the criteria the original poster listed. Read comprehension for the win.

  • Nice one gamespot (Score:3, Funny)

    by sam_paris ( 919837 ) on Thursday November 17, 2005 @12:28PM (#14053214)
    Gamespot officially tells us what we all knew before.

    The better your tv, the better your picture...

    Thanks for that gamespot!! I was going to use my black and white 50hz 15 inch'er with rf input until I saw this article!
  • Not on my shopping list anymore... POS. What the hell is Bill thinking??
    • No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.
    • He was thinking the 360 wouldn't be able to render 1080p at acceptable framerates because the hardware and games are designed to run at 30fps in 720p.

      He was also thinking there are almost no TVs on the market that support true 1080p, and LCD's limited to 1280x1024 would have to discard every third pixel to shrink 1920 down to 1280. A good solution there would be to just render 1280x1024 instead of widescreen, but that brings back my first sentence.
  • Why Gamespot? Shouldn't this article been written by, say, BestBuy who actually sells HDTVs too?

    Anyhoo - I actually know a lot of people who don't see a reason to upgrade their TV. It works, right? And HD doesn't come around here anyways (least, not yet). They do see a reason to upgrade everything else constantly. Perhaps, this is a push my Redmond to get "news" (I use the term loosly here) agencies to get the word out the 360 does looks great, it's your TV that sucks.

    PS.
    There are a lot of people who don

  • Headline (Score:3, Funny)

    by Gogo0 ( 877020 ) on Thursday November 17, 2005 @01:46PM (#14054096)
    NEWS FLASH!!!

    RF Picture quality sucks!
    Component quality sucks less!
    Svideo quality sucks even less!
    Composite quality is pretty good!
    DVI/HDMI quality is the best you can get on a consumer-grade tv!

    For $10 I will write an article for your website arguing between TOSLINK and 75Ohm coax for audio, and then finish it with a tie.
    IT WILL BE A REVELATION TO EVERYONE.

    Oh, it will be an Xbox2 article too, so that it gets posted on Slashdot.
    • You have "component" and "composite" backwards.
    • Close, just switch component and composite.

      composite is a single cable (usually yellow colored to identify it)
      component is several cables (usually red, green and blue colored cables to identify them)

      and yes, slashdot seems obsessed with Xbox...
    • Something people need to know about S-Video vs. composite.
      The quality of these against each other is highly dependent on your TV (or whatever device you connect to) and the source.

      S-Video has things separated (not to the extent of component) by the device generating the signal and the TV does not need to do much filtering on it. Composite has all the video signal combined so the TV needs to run the signal through a filter to separate out things.

      The quality of the filter (most often referred to as Y/C 3d(or
      • The console doesn't use a comb filter to produce the S-Video (two-wire) output from a composite source (1 wire)--it is going the other way from basically an internal component signal (3 wire) down to 2 wire. When the console synthesizes a composite signal, some information is destroyed, especially in NTSC, that can never be brought back. With S-Video, the luminance (Y) signal is transmitted directly with no modulation, and only the UV (or Cr/Cb--I'm being a little fast and loose here) signals are encoded
        • Well I have to admit I was taking what my knowledge/experience with LD players (where I learned that sometimes a good TV can make composite look better then S-Video) and applying that to console video. I always assumed there was something like a comb filter doing the break out on the source side for S-Video.
    • Where does SCART fit in there?
      • SCART is just a type of connector like RCA. You can have a SCART which carries a component/composite and/or S-video as well as stereo audio.
        • That leaves the question what kind of signal the X360 sends over SCART.
          • Whichever you connect to it.

            I have RGB inputted from my Xbox to my TV. I also have a GameCube hooked up with a different Scart using composite connections. Point is, the Scart doesn't really specify the signal any more than saying it's "RCA" (those are the connectors you usually get on composite/component wires).

            Now I bet that you can get a description which just say "scart" and then it's probably because it's by marketing. ;-)

  • Seeing as the sole reason for the Xbox360 is the improvement in graphics capabilities (unless there's some new feature I'm missing), I'd agree with the parent. Stupid.

    That's because you haven't been paying attention ;). There's the huge RAM increase. The Xbox had 64 MB, the Xbox 360 has 512 MB. This enables much larger maps (and hopefully, better PC versions of console releases -- remember the painfully short Thief 3/Deus Ex 2 maps?).

    There's the triple-core processor, which is a bit of a cat in the hat. I

  • correct me if i'm wrong....but they are offering a vga cable for $40 *wally-world link here [walmart.com]*. and since most monitors can support atleast 1024x768 what's the need for the hdtv? i'm just going to get the svga cable and use my 21" monitor and digital projector until i get my hdtv for xmas.

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