Free60 Project Aims for Linux on Xbox 360 511
BlueMoon writes "The Free60 Project wiki and developers mailinglist has been launched. The project aims to port open source operating systems like GNU/Linux and Darwin to the Microsoft Xbox 360 gaming console.
The site already contains some interesting details about the Xbox 360 security: per-box key stored on CPU, boot ROM will be on CPU too and a hypervisor verifies the running state of the kernel."
os x? (Score:5, Interesting)
My Thoughts Exactly (Score:3, Interesting)
I suggest that correct this problem that you transform your "XBox" into the form it should have originally been in:
1) Buy MicroATX case (with powersupply)
2) Rip apart XBox
3) Rebuild your computer. err XBox.
Done Right? [slashdot.org]
and I suppose:
4) Install Linux and stop buying those ridiculously priced games.
Not too quick! (Score:3, Interesting)
Odd Timing (Score:3, Interesting)
are there any non-gaming applications to this (Score:5, Interesting)
Source (Score:5, Interesting)
The biggest thing I wonder about in "The key is stored inside the CPU". This adds cost, but it is possible [intel.com]. It means that to execute your own code, the serial number must be determined so that a replacement flash chip can be properly encrypted. I'm betting it's pretty hard to find this number out without taking apart the processor.
Well, in regards to piracy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Odd Timing (Score:2, Interesting)
The PPC was planned as the processor for (most of) this generation of consoles for a while. Rumour had it, once upon a time, that the 360 devkit ran on Dual G5 Powermacs with the right video card.
Re:Well, in regards to piracy... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:My Thoughts Exactly (Score:2, Interesting)
Sounds a little "teh M$ is teh evil" slashdottery? Think again.
It's payback for those licences on latops and packaged computers that I and others don't use but have to pay for because they enforce a monopoly.
Microsoft is constantly profiting from these anti-competitive moves, and they are trying to sink other console makers by selling their machines at a loss (their whole xbox division doesn't turn a profit), I say if some company tries to use it's raw billions to put others out of business by selling below cost, then they deserve to have people buy them and use them for other purposes.
It's time someone stood up for the little guys (and I don't mean those macromedia flash producing infinium labs guys here either, there are real jobs on the line when MS bullys people), if our governments won't do it. We can.
Re:Consoles are not general computing platforms (Score:5, Interesting)
One box to do it all. You get a lot by being able to run your own OS on the box. Don't troll with unintelligent comments, it's not worth it.
Because it's there (Score:5, Interesting)
An Indian Psycologist (whose name went something like Sikh Sent Mahalia - but I'm sure I totally mangled it, and can't lay my hands on the book) identified the necessary components of "flow" as skills, rules, goals, and feedback. For any activity, whether work or play, if you lack the skill, or if the activity is too easy or too hard, you are frustrated and unhappy. If you can't discern the rules (or meta rules), you are frustrated and unhappy. If there is no goal, you are frustrated and unhappy. If there is no feedback on your progress, you are frustrated and unhappy.
Sports like football have all the components (for those with the skill), and there is "flow". Putting linux on machines designed to prevent that very thing is like a game of football for geeks. It requires skill (is not too easy), but has been and probably can be done (is not too hard). The rules are those of logic and electronics. The goal is clear, and there is feedback along the way as you (carefully arrange to) see evidence of the system running your code further and further along in the boot process.
It can get frustrating if there is a lack of feedback - you can't find a visible bit to twiddle to show the code has gotten to a specific point.
Re:Source (Score:3, Interesting)
IIRC, there's an extention to the JTAG specification for in-system programming of devices, such as programmable logic or flash memory.
I don't think it would be too cheap to store the unique per-console key in a few bits of flash memory in the chip die. Then all CPUs would be identical, and during the normal testing phase they could program the flash. And God knows we have flash memory technology issues down these days.
There's other ways too; fuseable links to make it permanent. But nothing that require a new die per CPU, it's the kind of thing that can be implemented cheaply.
Question (Score:3, Interesting)
But is it not possible to modify a distro for specifically that set of hardware that comes with, say, the Xbox 360? Would the gain in performance not be equal to that of games software written for that set of hardware?
Re:Why would you need it on a three 3.2 GHz proces (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:My Thoughts Exactly (Score:4, Interesting)
What would be cool is if somebody would port the BOINC distributed computing client, and put together a bootable CD for xBox. If you know you're not going to be using your console for a while, just put the CD in and reboot it, and it crunches numbers until you're ready to play again. If you think of the numbers of game consoles that are sold, and the number of hours that they're probably used per day (after the initial fascination wears off), that's a lot of idle CPU time. Now that consoles are getting comparable to computers in power, and have network connections and attached disk storage, I don't think it's that ridiculous an idea.
Erm why? (Score:2, Interesting)
It would be pretty cool if Linux worked on a 360 but please remind me again why people are trying to make it so? Aren't there enough projects crying out for some decent developer input already? Maybe I am just getting old and grumpy but this seems like a terrible waste of time that could be used to great benefit.
Re:Why would you need it on a three 3.2 GHz proces (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:are there any non-gaming applications to this (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Yay (Score:5, Interesting)
If only we could port Vray, Mental Ray and PRman to it.
Cheap renderfarm networked together. Need lots of cooling though from what I understand about the 360
TCPA (Score:5, Interesting)
This is (as far as I know) the very first Trusted Computing platform that we can put our hands on. Very, very interesting. And it is well done (no obvious flaws).
If somebody can break that, we may be safe! That or they may build a more secure one, but we'll be safe for more time anyway.
PSP cat and mouse (Score:2, Interesting)
so I highly doubt Microsoft would create huge disruptions in supplies just to stop this behavoir.....
If Sony's cat-and-mouse game with PSP homebrew enthusiasts is any indication of what Microsoft might do, especially given that one of the linked pages has "TPM"...
Re:Odd Timing (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure it does. GameBoy* and PSP* are profitable, and will continue to be profitable as they gain enough processing power to run re-releases of current console games in the next five years or so. A self-powered X-Box that fits into a discman-size form factor would be a killer app, and is close to being achievable today.
Don't shut it down (Score:4, Interesting)
Everyone expects that Microsoft would want to shut such a site down. Believe it or not, if the Trusted Computing Machine paradigm is to really take hold, Microsoft is going to have to wait it out. Lots of companies have worked on other tamper-proof technology. If this platform can withstand a very large portion of that attack, then they will have a reputation to be proud of - from a security perspective.
Bruce Schneier [schneier.com] reminds us of several attributes in his book Secrets and Lies.
For the record, I have no interest in playing on a 360, much less compromizing one, but if Microsoft can apply the above principles, then they will have a reputation and platform other non-gaming industries can embrace. Even Sony couldn't buy that with money. I do, however, have my doubts that Microsoft has focused on security robustness because their first and formost motto should be "It's all about the gaming experience." Fail that and the thing dies anyway.
Re:os x? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Consoles are not general computing platforms (Score:3, Interesting)
Other systems may use one-time-programmable chips, and most of these have various kinds of "security bits" that effectively slams the door on the possibility of reading the existing program and changing it. Typically something done in order to retain trade secrets.
Now, there are also field-programmable units, whether memories or erasable and re-writeable controller, with some kind of EEPROM memory in them. Even if they can be erased and re-programmed, these still tend to have some kind of security mechanism for the benefit of those wanting to keep their trade secrets.
I do expect that Microsoft has not made it easy to reprogram or even inspect the contents of these memory areas that hold the key for the unit. And it's not like there'd be a separate 24C01 memory chip with an I2C-bus interface holding the secret key, we can expect that there are some nonvolatile bytes of memory safely tucked away inside the chip.
Very likely, this memory is designed as externally write-only-once, so that once the key is written it can never be either read or rewritten. This resembles the region coding change limitation on DVD-drives, where the region code may be changed N times and it eventually sticks at the last one. Reduce N to 1 here, don't implement any way of externally reading the value, and there it is.
That does not preclude the possibility of overall testing of the external response to stimuli and deducing the internal secrets; but it does make this job quite a bit harder. After all, the device must eventually be able to run code from an external data source, as opposed to embedded controllers that have a fixed program that hardly ever changes.
Re:Why "Free-something?" (Score:2, Interesting)
Free60 is very clever. Kudos to them.
Re:Source (Score:2, Interesting)
As Ed Nisley always says in his DDJ column, "to own is to be root" -- there's no truly secure hardware.
Re:Nice try (Score:5, Interesting)
Done and done. [cdfreaks.com]
It involves getting in through a savegame. I had this done to my XBox; it has something to do with FTPing in and replacing boot files.
Hopefully the new system gets cracked quickly; an XBox with XBox Media Center is very useful!
Re:Nice try (Score:3, Interesting)
There's a simple, Free exploit that uses a buffer overflow in MechAssault to run unsigned code under the security restrictions of the game itself; one of the things it can do is write files to disk. Appropriate files can replace or modify the Dashboard, allowing unsigned code to run with no restrictions and act as an operating system. Such code exists Freely for older Xboxen; for newer ones, there is technically illegal code with the same effect.
("Technically illegal" because it was built with an unlicensed copy of the Xbox developer's kit.)
SourceForge downloads page [sourceforge.net] - get "MechInstaller", dd that to a drive that you can hook up to your Xbox, and load one of its saved games with an original (not "Platinum Hits") version of MechAssault 1. See xbox-linux.org.
Re:Because it's there (Score:3, Interesting)
How he defines flow: being completely involved in an activity for its own sake. The ego falls away. Time flies. Every action, movement, and thought follows inevitably from the previous one, like playing jazz. Your whole being is involved, and you're using your skills to the utmost.
The quinessential example that would accurately describe "flow" for the slashdot crowd would be the lost sense of time, sort of euphoric feeling that you get when you've been coding for hours.
I've read most of his book, Creativity, for my seminar class (college frosh) that I'm currently taking. In it, he does devote a chapter of ~20 pgs to Flow, and the entire book is actually a very insightful read and recommend it to slashdotters....
Re:Er... say wha? (Score:2, Interesting)
And the downsides are that you can't play XBox Live games. Which is fine for some, because you may not want to pay to play on servers that may otherwise be free, but on the XBox 360, the central online service plays a much more important role, so it will be a greater disincentive to hack your box.
Re:My Thoughts Exactly (Score:0, Interesting)
Aren't there better OSS thing to do? (Score:3, Interesting)
If people took the money they're going to spend on reverse engineering the Xbox and spent it instead on open hardware development, we'd already have open GPU's, sound cards, motherboards, you name it.
At the same time, open source is borne out of everyone doing whatever they find to be most fascinating, and it's that freedom that has resulted in many people developing open source software that is useful to everyone, whether intentionally or by accident.