RISK on Google Maps Shut Down 312
Posted
by
CmdrTaco
from the making-my-stronghold-in-africa dept.
from the making-my-stronghold-in-africa dept.
mrokkam writes "Hasbro owns the copyrights for the game of Risk, as the guy who wrote the google maps based Risk found out. This was featured on slashdot earlier. However, he does not seem too discouraged and asks people to submit ideas for other games using google maps that will not have such legal wrangles." One thing this reminded me of is how cool Risk is. My office is now in its 3rd round... Africa will be mine!
One has to wonder (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Copyrights (Score:4, Informative)
The copyright claim is probably a stretch. The title cannot be copyrighted, and merely formulating rules that are similar is not copyright infringement, though it is close enough for a lawsuit to stand on.
However, in these types of instances, trademarks cast a very wide net because of the anti-dilution clauses that were added to trademark law a few decades back. Judges often interpret the clause extremely broadly. The anti-consumer aspects of trademarks get their teeth from this, whereas the aspects of trademarks needed for a well functionin market, namely that one entity cannot pass off goods are being made by another, was very well handled by the older trademark laws.
Variations (Score:3, Informative)
The map was different, the rules slightly as well. In addition to continents you had space and ocean colonies and more sophisticated pieces + rules. I found it more intersting than plain "Risk".
The name "Risk" itself is a generic term and as such, from what I understand of copyright law, cannot be copyrighted.
If he were to change the rules and call it 'Risk ' then he should be OK. Though Hasbro may win de facto if the game author doesn't have the resources or will to deal with lawyers.
Idea-expression dichotomy (Score:3, Informative)
Two words: derivative work.
Three words: idea-expression dichotomy [wikipedia.org]. The rules of RISK, including the graph theoretic structure of the game board, make up a process, which is deliberately not subject to copyright (17 USC 102). If you express the same rules differently, then your work is not a copy and not a derivative.
Re:diplomacy (Score:2, Informative)
There's everything you need to know about Diplomacy here [diplom.org], including how to join an online game, and how to improve your gameplay.
Re:Not really a Copyright issue... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:20% additional copyright is NEW copyright (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Copyrights (Score:5, Informative)
You can't copyright the the actual rules of a game, only the documents you use to express those rules. IOW, you can copyright the form in which you've written them up, but that's it. Anyone is free to implement the same rules, using different text.
You can TRADEMARK a board design and the actual game pieces you make, but that's it. Again, anyone else is free to implement their version, using a different design and game pieces. I seriously doubt that Hasbro's version of Risk has an actual map of the world underneath (I have both the board and computer versions, and the world they show is NOT the real world,or even a decent representation of it).
In other words, Hasbro needs to to realize that the internet gives everyone the power to search here [cornell.edu] and get the facts.
If you'd rather read a summary about game law, direct from the government, go here [copyright.gov] instead.
So Hasbro can go fuck themselves. The guy should sue, as this was an obvious attempt at intimidation. They do NOT own the exclusive rights to RISK-style board games.copyright on rules (Score:2, Informative)
"Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author's expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.
"Some material prepared in connection with a game may be subject to copyright if it contains a sufficient amount of literary or pictorial expression. For example, the text matter describing the rules of the game, or the pictorial matter appearing on the gameboard or container, may be registrable." - The U.S. Copyright Office (http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html [copyright.gov])
Basically, from the copyright point of view, the guy would have been OK unless he copied the rules verbatim (or maybe close to verbatim) or he copied other parts of the game graphics.
By the way, I wonder if it is possible to sue people for providing false or misleading legal information when they ought to have known better? I am not saying Hasbro is guilty here--that depends on whether the rules were copied verbatim. Another example of the provision of false information are the warnings on DVDs saying that ALL copying is prohibited by law, which is simply false, since there is NO reasonable interpretation (though IANAL) of copyright law under which there is no such thing as fair use. For instance, it seems clearly legal to take a family photograph, for non-commercial purposes, with a TV playing the movie in the background (incidental copying, I think it's called). I wonder if one could get a class action lawsuit by people who were defrauded through the signage.
Re:Because you are modded 'Informative' (Score:2, Informative)
The name "Risk" is trademarked. This gives hasbro the exclusive rights to market a game with the name "Risk". This means that any substantially similar product (probably any game-like product at all fits the definition of 'substantially similar) cannot use the name "Risk" without the permission of hasbro.
Re:Copyrights (Score:3, Informative)
Really if the game is fun and well done, then it should stand on its own without needing to infringe on the trademark. And the rules need only be rewritten, if in fact they were taken word for word from the original. It might be good to throw in some variations just for fun.
Re:Another game (Score:4, Informative)
Here's what the US Copyright office has to say about it - and they should know http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html [copyright.gov]
So make your Risk game, your Camen Sandiego game, yur Sim City game - you can even use the same name. All these attempted smack-downs by lawyers who should know better make me sick. No wonder Shakespeare said "first we kill all the lawyers."
Re:Another game (Score:4, Informative)
Trademarks are subject to dilution. Hasbro isn't in connection with a game company. That's their business name. Risk is - its not their name, its the name of a product, and as such, enjoys a LOT less protection. The Reg had an interesting article on how trademarks get diluted. In this case, Risk isn't even a trademarkable word - its a generic english term. Same with Windows. Remember how Microsoft backed down and paid Lindows $20 million to go away when the issue looked like it was going to go before a judge?
http://www.gigalaw.com/articles/2002-all/isenberg- 2002-04-all.html [gigalaw.com]
Hasbro better not roll the dice on this one - the defenders dies are all 6s to their snake-eyes
TEG (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Trademark (Score:3, Informative)
Same thing with car companies - Pontiac didn't come up with the term "GTO" - they took it from the Ferarri GTO - but they were allowed to because "Pontiac GTO" is not the same, even though they both refer to cars.
Same thing with Raisin Bran. Kelloggs doesn't own the trademark to it - which is why you see "Post Rasin Bran" and "Kelloggs Raisin Bran". You can't claim trademark to a pre-existing term all by itself.
Look at the smackdown Microsoft got for trying to claim that "Windows", by itself, was their exclusive trademark. Cost them $20 million to find out that they didn't want to go there.
They have no more right to the term "RisK" by itself as a board game name than anyone else.
BTW - dig up a copy of Risk - I've got versions from 2003 and last yer. The 2003 one only mentions "Hasbro" and "Parker Brothers" as trademarks. This is a case of someone trying to expand their trademark pool. It's bogus.
On a side note, that they have now stipulated in a legal notice that "Hasbro Risk" isn't sufficient to differentiate their product in the consumers mind, that they need to be able to expand their title claims to all uses of "Risk" in conjunction with a board game, indicates that the term Risk in conjunction with territorial conquest board games has in fact become generic - a stipulation that I am quite happy to accept.
Re:Copyrights (Score:3, Informative)
Sure you can, just like you can copyright any other passage of text. It's just that the copyright only applies to your specific text and not to the meaning of the text.
Re:Hasbro not necissarily evil (Score:4, Informative)