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First Person Shooters (Games)

Hands on with SiN Episodes 36

Posted by Zonk from the not-just-for-saints dept.
onethumb writes "The video game industry may be on the brink of a sea-change just like music has seen and movies are in the middle of now. Valve began it by selling millions of copies of Half-Life 2 online with Steam, and Ritual's about to really turn up the heat by proving that online episodic game development really works. We'll get better games, more frequently, and with new, innovative gameplay. I spent some quality time with SiN Episodes and it looks like everyone wins - Ritual, Valve, and you." From the article: "Everyone wants episodic games. Developers want it because they get to make better games (by listening to their fans suggestions every 6 months and incorporating it directly into the next chapter) and do it more cheaply (6 months of game development vs years. Do the math). Gamers want it because their favorite games will be more frequent, higher quality, and more innovative since developers can now take some risks with different & new gameplay. But figuring out if it's a money-maker is a big risk. Someone's gotta put their hard-earned dough on the line and try it out."
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Hands on with SiN Episodes More

Hands on with SiN Episodes

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  • Will episodes come quickly enough? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gbulmash ( 688770 ) * <semi_famous@yah o o . c om> on Monday January 30, 2006 @02:47PM (#14600249) Homepage Journal
    My comments below should be taken in the context that I have not played either the 1998 original SiN or the upcoming release.

    I think the real question here is how long it takes to play through an episode and if an every-6-months release schedule is going to be responsive enough.

    If I can play through an episode in a week and then have to wait 25 weeks for the next episode...

    Given, the marketing materials on the site state that the game is very replayable because it doesn't follow a set path, allowing for more variation in replays. But still, how much variation can you get to make the 25 week wait more bearable?

    I think this is why MMORPGs do so well, because the constant interaction with other players helps fill in the gaps. If it's mostly interacting with NPCs or head-to-head frag wars, it can get old.

    The 1998 version is based on Quake II. IIRC, the Id gaming engines allowed for user-created missions/levels. If this new version of SiN allows for player-created extensions/expansions, that might help bridge the gap between official episode releases. Still, I think that if they're going to sell it on an episodic basis, a quarterly release schedule (at minimum) is needed to keep people hooked.

    - Greg

    • I definitely think 6 months is way too long for updates. Why not release new levels monthly? Record voices, write story, and design art well in advance, and create maps every month following the broad strokes of the existing content. I can't see people leaving a game with 4 hours of content installed for 6 months.
    • How long does it take you to play through Half-Life? 3 weeks? And then you wait years and years for the next one. How long did it take you to play Max Payne? Certainly less than a month, it it took something like 2 years for us to get Max Payne 2. Episodic content is much, much better if you want to wait the least amount of time before getting your gaming fix: in the end, it will take just as long to develop as much content as you get in an average video game, but instead of saving it all up for one release
    • Why exactly do you think that "episodic content" means "as soon as the first one ceases to entertain me, the next one should be ready"? Nothing else works like that.

      The word "episode" is most commonly associated with TV shows. One of those lasts an hour at most, and then you have to wait a whole week (or more) for another one.

      A series of novels is also "episodic content." You've heard of Harry Potter? Most people who read that finish one novel several months before the next one comes out. Many people are do
    • I dunno about you, but I find immense replay value in any well-made game. A few single-player missions for HL1 and HL2. I've played through Opposing Force at least three times, Blue Shift three times, and the original HL1 countless times (both by myself and with Sven Coop). I've ran through HL2 at least five times the whole way through, and I've played individual segments countless times as well, including for the project Half-life 2 Done Quick [invisionfree.com]. Hell, even on my first run through the game there were several

  • Aren't MMORPGs episodic already? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aapold ( 753705 ) * on Monday January 30, 2006 @02:47PM (#14600251) Homepage Journal
    I mean, aren't they? regular patches, feedback... some more than others, true, but they all add content and features as it goes on...
    • Yes, but there's also a monthly subscription fee. If you decide the new content is complete crap, and quit paying, you're up a creek without a paddle. With SiN, if you really like the first couple of levels but everyone says the third one sucks, who cares? You can still play the first two, and you could buy the fourth one when it comes out.

  • so.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Monday January 30, 2006 @02:51PM (#14600282) Journal
    So every 6 months you get another demo length bit of a game? Spiffy.. and by the time you get to part 4 the games two years out of date and looks vile. People stop buying each episodes, game fails, story ends up as a cliff hanger due to resources drying up.

    This has "dumbass" idea written all over it. Take the two years and recent a decent game and I'll buy it, advice my friends to buy it and try and support it as best I can. Make a couple of demos and space them out over a year and I'll have forgotten by the end of episode two because I'll have found something else I wish to play/support.

    • ...by the time you get to part 4 the games two years out of date and looks vile.

      You're presuming that episodes won't include incremental updates to the engine. Valve has already done something like this with HDR in DOD:Source and some new CS:Source maps. HL2 Aftermath will also support HDR.

      In fact, if done right, new episodes could retrofit higher-resolution textures or models into older episodes. Remember when Blue Shift included a model pack that updated the original Half-Life?

    • Re:so.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Tankko ( 911999 )
      >>This has "dumbass" idea written all over it. Take the two years and recent a decent game

      Right, and all you'll see are more games like the ones we have now. Eposodic games might allow for different ideas to be tried. They are cheaper and quicker to make, that means more time for exploration.

      But if you're one of those people that just wants another Halo...
  • I used to have sin episodes, but I take medication for it now.

    (rimshot)

    Thank you!

  • Everybody? (Score:4, Funny)

    by ibullard ( 312377 ) on Monday January 30, 2006 @03:07PM (#14600406)
    "Everyone wants episodic games."

    Everyone? I don't think that means what you thinks it means.

  • Finally (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheNoxx ( 412624 ) on Monday January 30, 2006 @03:09PM (#14600418) Homepage Journal
    I cannot stress enough how much games need to keep gaining in artistic direction and accessibility. The biggest obstacles are new customers who like the game but find the time daunting and learning the control layout to do something as simple as shoot ridiculous (which Nintendo is of course changing), and the lack of originality.

    When games can overcome these obstacles, they will do to movies what movies and television did to books and radio.
  • Everquest,
    Guildwars,
    Star Wars galaxies...

    3 Games, very different in many ways, although all MMORPGS, but they all change, have eposodic content of a type...

    Anything really new in this idea other than the idea of applying it to a different genre of game?

    Star wars had the biggest change i think i've seen in any game, they completely overhauled part of the game, now if that isn't putting your money on the line then i dont know what is.
    • EQ doesn't fit quite as well as SWG and GW do in your comparison. Both of these show possible routes this game could take. I know SWG has released a lot of expansions (JTL, Wookies, maybe something else), but SoE is shit and the game is more or less the same. My brother let me play on his second account for a while, and from what I hear, the game is same old, but with 'changes'. For example, instead of swoops, everybody rides some new jetbike that was introduced in one of the expansions. Same old condi
  • Developers want it because they get to make better games (by listening to their fans suggestions every 6 months and incorporating it directly into the next chapter)

    Error. Administrators for online games (MMORPGS and FPSs) always degenerate to following their own desires for upcoming changes. They will, without fail, fall into one of the following categories.

    -Small games: Personally invested with their own character
    -Large games: Need to "protect and punish" the customers overrides reason

    See also:

  • One Concern: Forums (Score:2, Interesting)

    by XenoRyet ( 824514 )
    Developers want it because they get to make better games (by listening to their fans suggestions every 6 months and incorporating it directly into the next chapter)

    This actualy worries me. If listening to their fans suggestions turns out to be letting the game's forum drive development. It is my opinion that the forum is the single worst thing to happen to the MMO genrea, and I'd rather it not squeeze it's way into more traditional games.

    The problem is that most forum-posters are not game designers,

    • MMO players don't want the game to be easy... they want their characters to be better than others. This is more of an issue with that particular genre than in most other types of games, because MMOs are highly competetive and tie you into one particular character. Compare that to, say, a fighting or racing game, where if I think a character or car is unbalanced (ZOMG nerf Ivy!!!!1) I can just drop it and play another without much waste of invested time. Or any single-player game, where "exploits" and stuff
    • The problem is that most forum-posters are not game designers, they don't really know what makes a game fun to play, they know what makes a game easy.

      This is completely true. Plus...

      The people who leave feedback for a game, especially in forums it seems, are the people who are dis-satisfied. The people who enjoy the game don't complain, suggest modifications, or even turn up just to say they're happy. What happens is the company who is 'listening to the fans' ends up listening to everybody *but* the fans, a
    • If I had any mod points, you'd defeniatly get a +1 insightful. Sadly I used them all up, so I'll just sign in agreement with you.

      A perfect example of what you're talking about is present in two different forms right now.

      1. The First Person Shooter
      2. The MMORPG

      First, the FPS. If you want an example of a deep FPS, the games you're looking for are Doom 2, QuakeWorld, Quake 2 and Quake 3's CPMA mod. There is a reason people are still playing all of those games today Unfortuniatly, CounterStrike came along a
  • Granted, the release cycle is longer, but aren't multi-game stories episodic?

    Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus
    Sly 2: Band of Thieves
    Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves

    Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
    Jak II
    Jak 3
    Jak X: Combat Racing

    Shadow Hearts
    Shadow Hearts: Covenant
    Shadow Hearts: The New World

    This just feels like a cheap grab at gamer's money to me. "I know! We'll just re-release the same thing for 3 years straight! Add a new map and a voice clip, and you're done!" At least now, the story goes different plac

  • Why they REALLY want them (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 ) on Monday January 30, 2006 @03:28PM (#14600556) Homepage
    The reason they REALLY want episodic games is so they can make more money. EA is starting to do it with its $10 expansions that it will rush to market as soon as they can...everybody is jumping on the bandwagon.

    I don't want to buy every little expansion and turn what SHOULD be a "pay once-play forever" game into a bastardized version of paying a monthly fee.

    This is just them trying to get us another step closer to pay-to-play, they're just talking about the initial benefits from it.

  • Another way to look at it (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bruciferofbrm ( 717584 ) on Monday January 30, 2006 @04:26PM (#14601060) Homepage
    Think of it in a different light;

    TV (series)is just episodic movies. It is a model that works. Each episode (regardless of time to release) contains more of some things, new other things, plenty of old stuff that works, etc.

    Now put this in the context of a game. Sure it is a new model, but the idea is the same. Popularity in some aspects will drive further development of those elements that draw the most people in and keep them coming back. Less popular elements will fall out. You will 'watch' the next episode if you want to or you wont.

    But two things stand out in my mind here

    • Sellable advertising will be more easily integrated and kept fresh
    • You are going to hollar up a big storm when your favorite episodic content decides to cancel just after their latest cliffhanger

    Do I smell a 'Sign this web petition to "save SiN episode 5" from being cancelled' in the air in the future?

  • what exactly does innovate gameplay even mean? When was the last time you played a game that was so new, different, and "innovative" that it really stuck with you. Half-life 2 is fun, no doubt, but I would not describe any part of it (including the gravity gun) as "innovative" Tetris was innovative, SimCity was innovative, Wolfenstein 3D was innovative. Most games released today would be considered evolutionary at best, not innovative. I will play SiN, and I will prolly enjoy it, but 2 months later I probab
  • We'll get better games, more frequently, and with new, innovative gameplay.

    I've been hearing that for 10 years.

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