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PlayStation (Games) Media Movies Television

The Dark Side of HDCP - Why is My PS3 Blinking? 233

FloatsomNJetsom writes "High Definition Content Protection is supposed to make sure you're not playing pirated content, but sometimes your devices screw up the HDCP 'handshake' (over an HDMI cable) and nothing works. This happens with some regularity with the PS3, and Popular Mechanics investigated and found a quick and dirty workaround. From the article: 'We then checked with Leslie Chard, president of HDMI Licensing, which owns the rights to the standard, who told us that HDCP is one component of HDMI that has been plagued with interoperability issues. HDCP (high-bandwidth digital content protection) is designed to prevent the interception of data — specifically copyrighted Hollywood movies — between an output component and a display. As Steve Balough, the president of Digital Content Protection, the licensing company for HDCP explains, the two pieces of hardware must exchange a key, a sort of certificate of authenticity unique to each individual device, to verify a secure connection.' The problem isn't limited to the PS3 — many HDTV cable boxes and have the same problem. The fix there? Unplugging the power cable."
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The Dark Side of HDCP - Why is My PS3 Blinking?

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  • by fred fleenblat ( 463628 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @03:32PM (#17668408) Homepage
    The 37W3 is about the cheapest 1080p LCD you can get, so one wonders if westinghouse (or more specifically, whatever chinese company actually built it) just cut corners left and right. You buy cheap stuff, you have to expect some problems.
  • by Thansal ( 999464 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @03:38PM (#17668522)
    Imagine if the energy spent trying to hogtie the general (and 99%+ totally honest and willing to purchase) consumer were instead applied to making the technology even better?


    Yes, but as we see, the "work" that goes into DRM is rather craptastic, and tends to make things that fail horribly at what they are designed to do. I think we are better off with these brilliant minds workign on DRM then things that actualy matter (say firmware, codecs, drivers, whatever).
  • by letsgolightning ( 1004592 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @03:47PM (#17668724)
    I'm sure I'm not the only one that sees HDCP as (a) HanDiCaP. I've not used the technology in any way and I'm not trying to comment on its merits, but when I see HDCP and that's the first thing I think of, wouldn't that be some sort of marketing failure?
  • by seebs ( 15766 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:00PM (#17669046) Homepage
    Because the PS3 does HDCP on DVI, too, so it won't display to a non-HDCP monitor that way either. (Or through a non-HDCP console switch, etcetera; you get the idea.)
  • by TeknoHog ( 164938 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:10PM (#17669256) Homepage Journal

    I thought HDCP applied only with certain movies that demand it. Does this mean that everything going through the HDMI port of a PS3 is encrypted? Including what Linux displays?

    If that's the case, my appreciation of DRM just went from "I couldn't like less" to "wait, I think I can". It highlights the problem that technology-enforced legislation is bound to be too greedy if it has any hope of being effective.

  • Acronyms? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by theGil ( 1010409 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:18PM (#17669398) Homepage
    Just a note, but did anyone else notice the discrepancy between the two acronymns? Early in the post, it's "High Definition Content Protection". Later, it's "high-bandwidth digital content protection". I believe the actual acronymn is the latter of the two.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:25PM (#17669578)
    Well, the CD-Text spec was released in 1996, according to Wikipedia. It can have album information/etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-Text [wikipedia.org]

    I used to have a CD player capable of using it, but I never found a CD with any text on it.
  • by greed ( 112493 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:30PM (#17669678)

    So I've got a decent LCD TV with HDMI, and a satellite box with HDMI, and a DVD player that upconverts to HDMI, and the [prize] PS3 is supposed to be on its way with HDMI....

    And they're all going to go through a remote-controlled component video switch I've got on order. (Currently, I'm using a manual switchbox.) I'm "opting out" of this HDCP game, I don't like the rules, and I don't want to play.

    Any Blu-Ray disc I try and which doesn't play on component will go back as "defective" or "unfit for sale." The media companies want to pull these stunts on consumers, they need our co-operation for it to work. So don't play along, stay analog.

    You know what? Y-Pr-Pb looks pretty damn good. Don't think you can get 1080p on it, but the Viera screen is only 768 vertical, so that doesn't matter (to me) anyways. Flat panel monitor pictures aren't "drawn" like CRTs anyway; the incoming signal is decoded to a framebuffer for driving the display.

    And HDMI switches cost too much, are hard to find with digital audio switching, and I don't feel like replacing my (otherwise excellent) AV receiver because Hollywood says so.

    For anyone considering a similar solution: Compare the bandwidth of co-axial digital audio and composite video (the orange RCA plug and the yellow RCA plug). They're pretty close, right? Check out the voltage and cable impedance; they're the same. What's that mean? Any AV selector switch with composite video AND component (or S) video can switch co-ax digital audio via the composite video channel. (Well, simpler ones where it doesn't try to convert composite to S or component, or put up on-screen menus or whatever.) That means there are, readily and inexpensively available, switch-boxes that don't _claim_ to have digital audio switching, but which actually work really well. I used a $30 box from Radio Shack that did S-video, composite, and left+right audio to switch S-video, digital audio, and left+right audio. (Not all laserdiscs have digital audio tracks... yeah, that makes me feel old. And the "multiroom" feature on my receiver only works with analog audio. _That_ will get me to upgrade. Hollywood get stuffed.)

  • by tenton ( 181778 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @04:52PM (#17670134)
    So is the TV not up to spec or is the spec not well enough defined? I'm assuming the PS3 is not the culprit since Westinghouse is the one talking firmware upgrades. I'm just curious if this is a real HDCP issue or just a cheap TV maker not following specs (which wouldn't be the first time a 2nd or 3rd tier manufacturer has ignored specs).

    Well, I've had the same thing happen with my Sony TV (HDCP compliant DVI plug) and my cable box. It happens very rarely (blue moons happen more often), but it does happen (solution I use is to turn the cable box off; the TV's connected to it, too, so in effect, I'm rebooting my TV and cable box).

    For it to happen so frequently (w/ the PS3 and the Westinghouse) tells me one of two things, or both. One is that the standard isn't defined well enough or people (the TV, Sony and the cable box makers) are cutting corners. I wouldn't be surprised if it's both.
  • Its not the spec! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 18, 2007 @06:08PM (#17671776)
    What a lot of people don't realize, (and this comes from first hand experience) is that more often than not, failed handshaking isnt necessarily a result of the devices themselves. It tends to be because of crap quality cables.

    While HDMI carries a digital signal, and thus, it carries the same visual quality regardless of the cable quality, a poorly made cable, with little or no shielding, and "leaky" connectors is going to be much more susceptible to EM interference.

    If you get enough interference (it doesn't take much with a 5 dollar eBay cable), you will have occasional blackouts, etc.

    I was able to solve this on 3 separate occasions for family and friends, by replacing their cheap cables with higher quality, shielded cabling.
  • by valkraider ( 611225 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @06:17PM (#17671948) Journal
    Except many "net nanny" filters block the sites that use the real words. So to be polite and allow people to read the site at work or at the library or wherever they may be that may have filters on - it is normal to use a substitute. But I find it funny that in a discussion about DRM restricting how people use technology you chose to tell an "author" of a comment how or how not he should write his own comments. Maybe just let the net be free and see what comes of it? Probably MySpace - but hey - we can't win them all...
  • by a_nonamiss ( 743253 ) on Thursday January 18, 2007 @06:19PM (#17671998)
    Does it show up on the 2007fpw monitor but blur out when I drag it over to the other desktop?
    You're giving too much credit to the MPAA. Anyone trying to view a movie on a system that doesn't have 100% HDCP compliance is obviously a pirate trying to steal content. They will probably put a virus on your PC that will cause it to format all of the hard drives and catch your house on fire.
  • by yagu ( 721525 ) * <{yayagu} {at} {gmail.com}> on Thursday January 18, 2007 @06:24PM (#17672078) Journal

    You're absolutely right... And, I already knew about this, but didn't want to bog down more than I'd already done in my post..

    Here's what's interesting about the CD-Text, and why it really goes to my original point: It showed up in 1996, about 13 years after my first CD player! I'm pretty sure those doing the inventing could've cobbled together a text for CD a little earlier.

    I, too bought some CDs excited about the new text format. But the players that could display were few and far between, and I finally opted out of getting the machines (the CDs were ones I'd have bought anyway). I guess if I thought they were serious about this, they'd have put a little more energy into it (earlier delivery, more advertising, more players). But, they didn't -- this was a huge potential for a nice leap in functionality. Heck, I'd even have considered paying a nickel or two more per disk for the extra info.

    I think the record industry was lazy with this -- it wasn't interesting to them, their money was just rolling in from their cast of mega-stars and mega-bands. There was no incentive.

    Some would point to the "role" of a business isn't to make everything and anything but instead to maximize profit, and rolling out the CD info as part of the product didn't fit that model. In my opinion the huge fascination with mega-dollar dealings obscured that customer satisfaction, even delight, provides, if more subtle, comparable returns for the investment. As it is now, I buy far fewer CDs than before, mostly because I resent their actions. I return any CD with copy protection built in (it's darned near impossible to figure out and know before you walk out the door with it).

    Yeah, there was CD text, 13 years late, and long after we the people were already filling up the database with our own typing pools. Sony's effort may have even been an attempt to thwart the CDDB effort (I really don't know on that one).

  • by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) * on Thursday January 18, 2007 @06:25PM (#17672108) Homepage
    "and that reason isnt to screw some mythical abberant 1% of the population."

    No not at all, and perhaps that's a misconception. People aren't concerned about ridiculous copy protection just as a theoretical exercise, it's more practical than that.

    Copy Protection (so called DRM) exists to segment the market artificially. If you buy a CD, the record company would strongly prefer that the only thing you do to it is listen to it in a CD player. In their view, putting the music on an iPod, on a home network, etc is against their use rules and they feel you should pay more for it. After all, you're getting more use without them getting more money. DRM is a way to make sure you only use it where they intend.

    Same way with DVD's. While people would buy VHS and DVD to watch movies at home, the use is more complex with computers, iPod video players (zunes!), and home networking. Again, to them, this is a way to segment the market and create scarcity where none exists.

    There is a multi-billion dollar industry around ringtones! Imagine if you could just rip your CD and put it on your phone! Why...that would be more money the consumer would have and less the record company would have!

    To the record companies, the CD was a big blunder. Not only does it have excellent sound (which they are already charging us extra!) but you can repurpose the music to suit your needs from home stereo, to cars, to personal music players to phones, to what else is new next week. And they don't get any more money.

    Yes yes, people will make illegal copies, but this loss is peanuts compared to what they see as new markets made possible by stopping you from copying your own music to another medium.

    and, I don't have a problem with them trying to get more money for the same music over and over. I do have a problem when we have the government essentially on the take to support this model. It certainly doesn't benefit me as a consumer, and apparently it doesn't benefit the artist either (http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/news/2004-05-1 6-royalties-main_x.htm).

    So your argument is superficially convincing, nonetheless, I think it's not the real reason for copy protection and DRM.
  • by billcopc ( 196330 ) <vrillco@yahoo.com> on Thursday January 18, 2007 @07:19PM (#17673060) Homepage
    The problem is that a large number of idiots with an HDTV and PS3 will tolerate a surprising level of mediocrity. If they have to jiggle the cable and wave a rubber chicken say, one in five times, a lot of people will put up with it. Maybe ten years they would have called a help line, or complained to their sales person, but after so many years of crappy service and outsourced "help", people have gotten used to it.

    Just look at how many people thing a crashing computer is normal... Here I am with my Windows box, I run games, I run torrents, I run all the same crap everyone else does, yet my uptime is mostly dependent on how often I change hardware around. Sometimes I hear stories like "if I try to run Limewire while Outlook is running on my MDG, the thing shuts down so I just don't run those two at the same time". In my head I'm thinking Jesus Christ buddy! He needs a new power supply. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I get one single crash and if I can't precisely pinpoint the source of the problem (and eliminate it), I lose sleep.

    If I had an HDTV and PS3 that worked only 80% of the time, I'd spend more than 20% of the time hunting someone down to fix it. People don't buy something for it to work only part time. If someone sold you a car that only runs 6 months a year because of a software glitch that can't be fixed, do you think it's fair that you pay full price ? Would you even pay half price since it works half the time ? I sure wouldn't.
  • But why the hell does playing a game require HDCP? If you were playing a movie, then I could understand the paranoia.

    "Hey dude, check out this rip of me playing [insert popular game here]."

    Why the hell does sony want to stop people copying game footage? It's not like you can clone the game this way.

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