Blame Gaming - Is the Blinking PS3 Sony's Fault?

mattnyc99 writes "After discovering a blinking problem associated with the HDCP handshake from an HDMI cable to the PlayStation 3, then solving it, Popular Mechanics has now set off a mini-war between Westinghouse and Sony. The 1080p TV set maker appears to be blaming Sony as the source of the blinking PS3, and the two powerhouse companies have organized a meeting to settle the score. From the article: '[Westinghouse had] one suggestion for PS3 owners with blinking Westinghouse televisions: Purchasing an HDMI to DVI adapter to bypass HDCP. Average cost of an adapter: $30. As we reported last week, Popular Mechanics has found an even easier solution: Unplugging the HDMI cable, and then plugging it back in'"

So.. how is this Sony's fault exactly?

[Anonymous Coward]

Westinghouse has already said in previous statements that there is a firmware upgrade for their televisions that fixes this problem.

I'm all for bashing Sony, but, if the TV has an upgrade that eliminates this problem, why is this Sony's fault?

Re:Yes, It's Sony's fault

[MeanderingMind]

I'm giving it slightly more weight against Westinghouse than Sony. It seems odd to me that the PS3 would work perfectly fine with other HDTVs, and then be at fault for not working with one particular brand. It's possible that some small quirk of the PS3 is contributing, but given that we haven't seen reports of the PS3 failing with Samsungs, Toshibas etc. I highly doubt Westinghouse's claims about it being a problem with the "source".

what about we the customers?

[yagu]

Here's where the providers of "stuff" for "us" have gone astray... They're arguing the wrong argument. None of us give a flying f*** whose fault the blinky is... we're freaking customers! And instead of apologies and fixes with humble apologies to the customers, these people don't have enough fingers on their hands to point blame on someone else.

Message to providers of stuff: Provide us with good products, easy to use, and at reasonable cost and price. If something is wrong with the product, fix it.

Re:I think I'm on Westinghouse's side on this one.

[Zeek40]

Is any of the content you're playing through the HD-DVD Player HDCP protected? My understanding is that HDCP use is still optional and the content being played determines if it's enabled (but i may be wrong on that). If the HDCP handshake is what's causing the flickering, and none of your HD-DVD's are forcing the DVD player to use HDCP, it the issue wouldn't show up with the device.

Re:Yes, It's Sony's fault

[Mike Buddha]

It seems odd to me that the PS3 would work perfectly fine with other HDTVs, and then be at fault for not working with one particular brand.

Isn't it just as peculiar that the Westinghouse works just fine with other HDCP compliant devices without this issue? Your suspicions on this company are a symptom of Sony Fanboyism. There is a problem with these two companies products, they (not just Westinghouse) need to fix it.

Neither

[Criffer]

The problem is neither Sony, nor Westinghouse. It's Intel.

The problem is due to the Digital Compatibility Prevention (HDCP) [wikipedia.org]. The protocol is designed to prevent devices working together unless each manufacturer pays royalties to Digital Content Protection LLC, a subsiduary of Intel. The connection used is HDMI, whose specification mandates the use of Digital Compatibility Prevention, which is a shame, because otherwise it would be a nice connector.

Until there is a digital connection standard which does not require that end-users be treated like criminals for having expensive displays, I will not be buying an HDTV, nor a PS3, and I urge others to do the same.

I'm betting on delivering video over gigabit ethernet winning, because it's cheap, cat 6 cables are dirt cheap, and it doesn't require royalties. I would suggest HD-SDI (co-ax is even cheaper than UTP), but the licence agreement prevents it being used in "consumer" applications.

HDMI - DVI would do nothing

[SuperKendall]

All an HDMI to DVI adaptor does is take the video signal alone, without the audio channels, and feed it through the DVI side. If the video is HDCP encrypted, it will be encrypted on the DVI side as well as the adaptor is just passing the signal through - with the same results if the problem is the handshake speed as described.

The problem is the HDCP encryption, not the cable itself. The way to think of HDMI is a cable that bundles together DVI video and PCM audio all in one cable (that's not quite correct, but a good way to think about it).

Using HDMI (PS3) to DVI (TV) is pointless

[Zantetsuken]

The summary stated that Westinghouse said "Oh, just use an HDMI to DVI cable" - except that would defeat half the point of trying to use HDMI in the first place - the handshake is to let the DRM know that it's ok to send the 1080p signal because there isn't a recording device in between the PS3 and TV set (for pirating media such as movies)...

The other half of using HDMI is for the audio and video to be on one cable. It's actually rather funny, because my brother-in-law still thinks that HDMI is just for putting the a/v on one cable, and that there's no DRM involved...

Re:Guess what: it doesn't matter!

[DingerX]

translation: The HDMI cable is useless hardware created to make life more difficult for consumers who respect copyrights, decreasing the inherent value of retail media, and increasing the value of pirated goods.

Re:Yes, It's Sony's fault

[MBGMorden]

You completely missed the point of his post. The Westinghouse unit is NOT having a problem with other players.

So by your logic, if the TV works fine with EVERY other player out there, then the ONE that's not working (the PS3) must obviously be at fault right?

What we have here is a compatibility issue between the two. Any finger pointing to lay blame on one or the other is pointless.

Re:Acronym hell?

[Manmademan]

Just because the new sets and devices (like the PS3) are higher definition doesn't mean that plugging the damn things in should be so complicated. Why do I need 6 ways to connect a TV to a signal (coax cable, RCA plugs, S-video, HDMI, DVI, optical, etc.)? It makes me realize that I'm happy with my regular tube TV. It's cheap, it's simple, it looks good, and you don't have to go through 12 pages of directions to plug it in.

Owners of black and white TV's thought their sets "looked good" too until they saw one in color. The difference between an old tube with just "RCA" (composite) plugs and a high definition using HDMI is night and day in terms of both video and audio quality. but just to clear a few things up:

Nothing uses Coax anymore outside of your cable connection or the odd VCR. It's really only there for legacy purposes, as just about everything supports higher level connections by now. The last time I remember a videogame system using one was the SNES, back in 1992. Avoid it whenever possible.

"RCA" and "S-video" accomplish pretty much the same thing, only S-video is better at it by far. S-video also needs but doesn't always come with audio (the white and red cables) so watch out for that.

Component (which you didn't list), HDMI, and DVI are required to pass a high definition signal. Outside of sets that have built in HD-Tuners for OTA signals, If you have a high definition tv and aren't using one of these you can't actually view anything over 480i.

Optical, odd as it sounds is an audio cable and has nothing to do with high definition or your television.

none of these are really all that hard to connect- component is color coded and impossible to mess up, and HDMI and DVI are simpler than "Rca" jacks due to only having one plug to deal with. it doesn't take a 12 page manual to determine how to plug things in, just a willingness to learn.

Re:Yes, It's Sony's fault

[Endo13]

It seems odd to me that the PS3 would work perfectly fine with other HDTVs, and then be at fault for not working with one particular brand.

If you read the comments on all three articles, you'll see that it's not just happening with Westinghouse TVs. Even more interesting, it's also not just happening with PS3s - it happens with Sony's standalone Blu-Ray players as well.

Here's a couple of the comments.

This is not JUST Westinghouse televisions happens on others as well check out this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=75 2327 [avsforum.com] the issue is in the Sony HDMI connector

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Your investigation is quite on target. However, this isn't just happening on the PS3, it's also doing it on the Blu Ray BDP-S1 stand alone player that Sony released recently that's available at Best Buy. We do the same thing to get it to work and this is with a Sharp Aquos 52" LC-52D62U LCD 1080P. It does it about everyday at random. We either unplug the cable or turn off and on the Blu Ray player to make it go away. I also have the newest HD DVD player HD-A2 released by Toshiba with HDMI and it doesn't suffer from this problem. I'm pretty sure it's a Sony issue.