An Evening With Sony Computer Entertainment 253
Thursday evening, senior Sony representatives such as Phil Harrison (President of Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios) and David Karraker (Head of SCEA's PR division) sat down with the posters from a bunch of websites, looking to ease relations between the company and their customers. Along with folks from The San Jose Mercury News, Joystiq, Kotaku, and MTV, we discussed a number of the issues raised in the comments here on Slashdot the day before yesterday. My goal in going to the event was to make sure that your concerns were heard. Over the last several months, I've heard many complaints leveled against Sony and their products, and I was hoping to bring back some answers. To be honest, I walked away not fully satisfied. Read on for answers to some of the criticisms you, the readers, have leveled against Sony in the last several months.
I took notes, but a lot of ground was covered, and not all of it was probably of interest. To give you a sense of context, we were all gathered around a large table in a hotel just off of Union Square. The event was held in the early evening, and lasted for approximately two hours. While everyone was certainly civil, there were a number of tough questions passed around. Here is what I felt was most important to you folks:
- A goodly amount of the discussion centered around Sony's newly announced Home project. The dangers of allowing uploadable content were raised, and we were assured that PSN parental controls will be fully in place within the game world. There will be a few quick button options to black out the screen (in case of offensive images) and to kill the audio (in case of offensive language). Public spaces will be moderated (and instanced, if you're curious), though they were a bit vague on just how those individuals would work economically. They're still working out the details.
- I was intrigued on Wednesday (as were a number of readers) by the possibility of indie games in the Arcade rooms they showed off. Phil Harrison responded by saying that it is something they're very interested in. Originally, all of the games were going to be done in Java but technical problems arose. The games are now done in C. If they can wrap up the tools in an easy package, they'd be very happy to release them and allow community-created games onto the service.
- Revenue for the service will be handled via object sales, advertising, and b2b elements in vendor areas. Those concerned about the 'amount of free' that you'll get as an intro Home user should know that they're hoping to offer a fair amount off the bat. 'Free' includes a basic apartment, access to the public spaces, a 'reasonable' number of avatar customization options, and a 'starter' set of furniture. Better views out your window will be purchasable, along with new apartments.
- Everyone from Sony in the room heavily resisted comparisons to Second Life, and other services. In Mr. Harrison's words "That would be heavily oversimplifying both Home and Second Life." Along the lines of hacking the service to allow Second Life-style sexual animations, the reps were fairly confident that they'd dodge that bullet. The service itself doesn't allow avatar touching, and doesn't currently have emotes that approximate those actions. They eventually hope to have 100% of online-connected users on the service. Currently, the number of online connected PS3's is somewhere around 500,000 in NA; roughly 50% of the North American consoles.
- Right now the download is around 450 megs, but that's going to probably shrink and grow over the course of development.
- The subject of Sony's arrogant public demeanor was broached, as well as the poor public relations message we've been getting in the last several months. The ThreeSpeech blog was broached, and the folks in the room actually clarified the purpose and reality behind the 'semi-official' blog. ThreeSpeech is actually a European entity, intended to be a public forum in which Sony-related matters can be discussed and information can be brought to the public's attention. The people behind ThreeSpeech are some of the most respected games journalists in the UK; it would be like if a US version of the site were staffed by the likes of CNN's Chris Morris, and man-of-many-talents Geoff Keighley. Because UK gamers know and trust the ThreeSpeech staff, there's an implicit understanding (in that country) that the message coming from the site is not 'tainted.' It was pointed out the lack of attribution to posts across the site is a barrier to acceptance, and they took that under advisement. For the most part, it seems, the bad reputation that ThreeSpeech here in the states seems to be a case of cultural misunderstanding. While I still don't like the term 'semi-official', I did feel as though the concept behind the site made a great deal more sense to me after this chat. Some of the other attendees were not as reassured.
- The element that I want to convey, which I took away from the discussion of Sony's arrogance, was that arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services. Thanks to the impersonal nature of quotes and the numerous (rightly decried) public relations gaffes they've suffered, their confidence can easily be seen as arrogance by third party information consumers. This is not to say the company on the whole is not arrogant; I just want to make it clear the people I was in the same room with Thursday night did not have the attitude of inherently arrogant individuals.
- This discussion went on to include the question of the PS3's pricetag, which was a subject never fully addressed to my satisfaction. There was some talk of the PS3 as a lifestyle, and the still-important question of why Blu-ray technology is necessary. Peripherals such as the EyeToy were mentioned as 'making the PS3 disappear from the equation', which given the cost of the system seemed to be a poor choice of words. Not much of substance resulted from the Sony 'side of the table' on this subject, and that attitude left me feeling a bit frustrated. The system's cost won't be changing for some time now, and there's apparently not much to talk about on that subject. This was the one element that I went into the session hoping to deal with directly, and unfortunately came away feeling let down.
- As a final note, it was stated directly that "There is no direct evidence that Blu-Ray has been hacked." Their attitude is that the encryption is strong, and that it will be a long time before it's cracked.
Asked why did they fuck up Star Wars Galaxies ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Confidence, not arrogance? (Score:2, Insightful)
Blu-Ray comments (Score:2, Insightful)
I wouldn't expect them to say otherwise. If they admitted that Blu-Ray was in any way flawed, the non-Sony content providers would be much slower to adopt the standard (if at all).
Re:No questions about the fake PSP fan site? (Score:2, Insightful)
So they tried a really lame advertising campaign, and it backfired. I don't get all the indignation and nerd-rage over it, like they violated your rights or something.
I don't get the anger or hostility in general. I think the PS3 is overpriced and kind of dumb, so I just dont buy one. Maybe one day I will, but I have no strong personal feelings towards it one way or another. It's just a consumer product, and not something I in any way need.
Re:No questions about the fake PSP fan site? (Score:2, Insightful)
So you are not a hardcore gamer. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact it is probably the more healthy way to be (and I say this, of course, as a gamer myself.)
But if you are among the 'core, then you have to understand that Sony is pure fucking evil. In fact, in the gaming market, they're significantly more evil than Nintendo. Whether you believe they're the primarily responsible party, they definitely committed grievous harm to sales of the Dreamcast by making an early announcement of bogus PS2 specs which they had to know were fraudulent, and their utter and complete arrogance around the PS3 and PSP frankly angers many of us.
I think most people are offended by people who are too big for their britches. No one is impressed by the big turd, no matter how big the bowl is.
There are of course numerous reasons to despise sony. The rootkit fiasco is near the top of the list. And Sony's inability to build a reliable optical drive, coupled with their minuscule warranties. And of course, my personal #1, their summoning satan all over Lik-Sang, which was bar none my favorite videogame addon crap store, and just about everyone else's too.
In general, Anger and hostility are counterproductive anyway, so it's good that you don't feel them. But not being able to understand them is a bit inexplicable to me.
Sony just doesn't seem to "get" it... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ummm... How does an overpriced and underutilized webcam accessory accomplish that? And what does that have to do with the price of the base system?
The system's cost won't be changing for some time now
Then neither will the sales figures.
They eventually hope to have 100% of online-connected users on the service
Sony, Microsoft, and even Nintendo need to understand something...
A lot, probably even the majority, of casual gamers, don't want the whole live/home/online "experience". We want to pop in a game and waste a few hours to unwind between getting home from work/school and having dinner.
I don't care if the world knows how much I rock (or suck) at the newest games. I don't want trinkets and scenery and furniture for a virtual apartment. I don't want to spend time doing anything beyond slaying dragons, drag-racing through densely populated urban areas, slappin' hos, and getting the little colored blocks lines up just right so they go "bleep" and vanish.
My style of gaming doesn't fit Sony's ideal revenue model. Too bad - Give me what I want, or you don't get any revenue from me.
arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services.
Trying to tell people what they want to buy doesn't count as confident. It counts as arrogance.
People generally have some sense of shame and humility, and in live meeting, few people will come off as truly arrogant. That doesn't make the company itself any less so.
I'll repeat myself - Give me what I want, or you don't get any revenue from me. If Sony responds to that by trying to explain to me why I really want what they have, you have arrogance, not confidence.
Re:Sony is still in trouble if no price reduction (Score:3, Insightful)
My take is that Sony just has to own-up to what they have. Plug away at their own pace, try to get their games to really take advantage of the hardware and hope for something to stick. If I remember correctly, the N64 was declared an initial loser when compared to the others, but came on strong in the end with some great games that took advantage of their system.
Coming from the "wait and see" crowd, I'd say Sony has at least a year and a half after launch before those people start walking away.
price FUD (Score:2, Insightful)
It retails for $499 usd
Not $700, not $800, not whatever other made-up numbers people use (although yes, europe got screwed here as usual).
What do you get for that price?
$800 worth of hardware.
Hardware that no other console has. Hdmi, standard high capacity optical drive, user replaceable hard drive, in a package that has had essentially no manufacturing defects.
Yeah, its expensive, but it's a lot of machine for the money. If you don't want to pay for it, don't buy it, but stop acting like sony owes you a cheaper machine.
Re:Playsation home? (Score:3, Insightful)
I really think they have given up on Europe, they might as well not launch at all at that price, and the only game I was really looking forward to (Gran Turismo 5) is now a 2008 release BEFORE the huge wait for a PAL version.
Zonk, call a spade a spade. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Sony Keynote Offers Hope For PlayStation 3 Fans"
"Today was Sony's day to deliver: and in my opinion they did with flying colours."
"Finally, finally, there seems to be a light at the end of the tunnel for the console."
"Note the first: There may finally be a great reason to buy a PlayStation."
"Your avatar is customizable, and extremely detailed. These is *not* Miis, these are better than Second Life quality digital characters."
"[Little Big Planet] is the reason to buy PlayStation 3." (bolded)
And from this op-ed:
"The element that I want to convey, which I took away from the discussion of Sony's arrogance, was that arrogance is not the feeling I get from them in person. These people are, instead, supremely confident in their products and services."
"I came away from the meeting with a sense of cautious optimism."
"...it's possible the games arm of this particular megacorporation may have put its launch troubles in the rear-view mirror."
Maybe it's just my view of things, but everything *sounds* sugar-coated. Your (Sony) article(s) read more like hype than unbiased reporting.
It's fine if you're personally excited about what goes on, but I think in the interest of full disclosure, you need to say *why* you're so interested. I don't own a PS3; I have seen nothing in these recent articles to indicate, to me, that Sony has taken any steps to change their ways. And yet, you repeatedly say that this is the case.
Why? Because they're implementing a Sony-branded Second Life rip-off? Because of one good game? Because they put their best personal face forward during one meeting?
We've seen this exact pattern before, from a number of companies: nicely worded "promises". Pretty ideas. Friendly faces. The reality of it from Sony has been, consistently, lies and dashed hope. Does meeting these people face-to-face really make you want to forgive and forget so easily?
-lw
Re:Zonk, call a spade a spade. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sounds like Sony won the GDC. (Score:4, Insightful)
But from the sound of this they really got away with something at GDC this year, and kudos for them, too bad most of us are already too jaded to turn back and most developers still find the system a hassle even with this new item. Overall though it sounds like a huge win for Sony at least this week.
Re:price FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh man, where to start, where to start. HDMI? This provides very little advantage over component connections, and as most people on this planet have NO HDTV, let alone one with HDMI, this is pretty irrelevant.
User replacable hard drive, that's a nice touch. But 99% of everyone doesn't give a shit.
No manufacturing defects? tee hee hee. There's been overheating issues and the HDMI timeout issue. That's not strictly sony's fault, but it is their responsibility to test their device with the most common output devices, and this is something they clearly did not do.
Anyway it's not worth anything like $800 to me. For one, I don't want or need blu-ray. Its primary effect is making games more expensive. I don't have an HDTV and probably won't have one any time soon because they are seriously fucking expensive, at least anything worth owning. I'm not going to buy some 720p shit unless it's incredibly cheap. And 1080p definitely isn't cheap.
You can argue that we should all unlimber our wallets if we want what they have. But ultimately, Sony is a corporation, SCE is a company or collection thereof, and if they want people's money, they're going to have to give them what they want. They are not selling what most people want, which is why the Wii is flying off shelves within hours of when it shows up on them, but you can buy a PS3 almost anywhere, in spite of the fact that there's been significantly more Wiis actually produced.
Sony is trying to force us into supporting Blu-Ray, and I'm not interested. Not that I would give those assholes at Sony any money after rootkits and destroying Lik-Sang, among other faux pas.
Re:No questions about the fake PSP fan site? (Score:3, Insightful)
Preface: I have 2x NES, SNES, N64, Cube; GBA, SP x2, DS Lite; Dreamcast; 2x PS2, 1 PS2/Slim (gave my PS1 away); 2x PSP; and a PS3. I will be getting a Wii as soon as Paper Mario hits, maybe sooner. I have a solid selection of the best games for all of the above platforms, and I've played (if not finished) just about every SNES and NES game worth playing. I grew up when Atari and Nintendo were big, and am as happy to play an 8-bit game as an HD next-gen game. If that's not "'core", or whatever you kids are calling it, then you're the one with the weaker definition.
That said, you have no clue if you think Sony is "evil". Nor is Nintendo "evil" anymore; whether this is by necessity or choice is irrelevant. The only thing that killed the Dreamcast was Sega's business prowess. Substandard manufacturing, terrible marketing, and making lots of bad choices along the way. I would much rather see them as the third competitor in the console race than Microsoft (because Microsoft is ongoingly evil), but that's not going to happen soon.
Care to share a link to a credible reference?
Care to explain how a company that delivered two massively successful consoles each with a huge library of excellent games is a "big turd"?
And how does Sony/BMG's contractor have anything to do with Sony Computer Entertainment, which is an entirely different---physical and businessological--- subsidiary?
If Lik-Sang failed because they couldn't sell modchips in the UK, then they had more issues than Sony.
Your anger and hatred is misplaced, and more related to a $499-599 pricetag than any real, tangible, logical reason.
What happened to Lik Sang (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't have time to find references for the other stuff you ask (and if you can't remember the fake polygon claims which both Sony and Microsoft released, you're not much of a gamer), but this is just plain wrong:
Not being able to sell modchips in the UK is not what killed Lik Sang. Lik Sang was not able to defend against multiple lawsuits started by Sony all over Europe [kotaku.com] and was thus forced to go out of business.
They never had a chance to defend themselves because Sony started so many lawsuits that they could not afford fighting them, even if they had a chance of winning. I don't care what you think, that's just plain evil.
Re:Asked why did they fuck up Star Wars Galaxies ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Sony just doesn't seem to "get" it... (Score:4, Insightful)
FYI: The PS3 has sold slightly more units then the XBOX 360 sold in its first three months [vgcharts.org].
I find the rest of your comment confusing...you are mad because they're giving you a casual gaming environment in addition to the more traditional big blockbuster game model. I didn't see anything about a requirement that you use "PS3 Home" to play all games. Seems to me that you can just not download "PS3 Home" and "pop in a game and waste a few hours to unwind". Seems to me that if all you want to do is "slap hos", you can just buy GTA4 when it comes out and ignore the whole "online experience"
Does it occur to you that perhaps they want to appeal to a variety of different markets? Does it occur to you that perhaps they want to give different consumers different things, and that perhaps they are attempting to use multiple revenue models to support different sorts of costumers?
Seems to me that they showed a shiny new toy you can have for free, but only if you want and you said "OMFG! YOU FUCKING BASTARDS! I DON'T WANT THAT SO YOU SUCK!" It's like screaming that Toyata sucks because they make SUVs and you want a hatchback hybrid.
Re:No questions about the fake PSP fan site? (Score:3, Insightful)
If ya think sony is pure evil... you may want to go back to history class. Or english and find out what the word evil is. Sony has been dumb, has been over aggresive, has been a hype machine and under achiever but "evil" is a stretch. Or did I miss the news story where Cell chips are made from African Orphan brains?
Sony? Baloney! (Score:2, Insightful)
Then - as promised by their leadership ("we'll firewall it at the PC!") they embedded a rootkit on music CDs. This criminal act, followed by their arrogant defense of this action, proved to me that they are nothing more than the lowest level of corporate scum.
So I made a choice - no more money to Sony. Hasn't hurt a bit; I've spent freely on electronics and entertainment and don't miss Sony a bit.
Those who haven't learned yet are doomed to suffer at Sony's hands - Sony hasn't learned their lesson yet. They don't have a public relations problem, they have a corporate ethics problem. I don't see anything that indicates any change in this situation at any time in the forseeable future.
Re:Asked why did they fuck up Star Wars Galaxies ? (Score:1, Insightful)
3 years...
3 years...
3 years...
They were fucking you for 3 years while you continue to pay them to do so.
This isn't just a sony issue, fucking customers of MMO's. The whole MMO industry has a very poor customer service standard, which I place the blame for on the customers who seem to choose to take it in the ass over and over rather than give up on ataining the uber sword of doom +1
Oh, they are willing enough to critisize, but they don't stop paying the fee, even after all the shouts of "I'm quitting!". When they do quit, they coem back and resume the character, and resume complaining.
The only time they quit, is when a shiny new MMO comes out that convinces them that they will have it better over here, where the grass is greener, honest!
Re:price FUD (Score:3, Insightful)
That's why I didn't make that argument.
Yes. Next question?
I've read reports of it overheating when on top of a stack of components. You're right - it's not a manufacturing issue. It's a design issue.
That was in reference to the lines "What do you get for that price? [...] $800 worth of hardware." in the comment I replied to [slashdot.org]. If you're not going to read enough of the thread to understand the conversation, don't bother replying.
Least I heard it was about 1.1:1. You need to use time periods longer than a week to have meaning. Sorry.
Yes, and some developers waste craploads of space. If there is a point here somewhere, I'm interested.
But since I have a 720p set to my left that isn't also a 1080i set, you can go fuck yourself.
Don't be a shill. If I don't want to buy it, and I want to explain why, there are people who are interested. And if you aren't, why don't you go do something else?