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Comments: 106 +-   New Version of Xbox 360 Looking More Likely on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:27PM

Posted by Zonk on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:27PM
from the nothing's-nothing-until-it's-something dept.
xbox
Engadget is just one of a number of sites running 'confirmations' of a new iteration of the Xbox 360 hardware. The new black-coloured console is said to include an HDMI port and a larger hard disk drive (120 gigs). While the code-name Zephyr has been bandied about online for quite some time now, Engadget is saying it will be released under the name 'Elite'. Initially to be sold as a third SKU (alongside the Core and Premium packs), when the initial black run sells out the hardware in the Elite will take the place of the Premium sku. An HD-DVD drive will not be incorporated into the unit. All this should be taken with a grain of salt, as the entire thing stems from 'sources' and a supposed article in the upcoming issue of Game Informer magazine; Microsoft has not yet confirmed anything.
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  • Official Annoucement (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Applekid (993327) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:35PM (#18431299)
    Perhaps Microsoft thinks that people who would buy the Premium model now wouldn't if they knew a "Super Premium" model is coming out soon. If they assume rightly, then sales of 360 would dip. If their caution is warranted, the dip in sales would be a large enough number to make the 360 look less strong from a userbase perspective.

    So if they were going to release this, they wouldn't announce it until very close to when available. If they weren't going to, they wouldn't say they're releasing it either.

    We're not making it, and, if we were, we wouldn't tell you early.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by JFMulder (59706)
      Remember that Microsoft has lowered their shipments targets form 15 to 12 million. Maybe they are trying to bleed the market dry out of Premium 360s so they can replace that model with this new one, which could still launch at 400$ dollars. I mean, a bigger hard drive is not going to cost them a lot more per unit and HDMI output could actually cost LESS than analog component output. Factor in the fact that they are shrinking the processor die (which implies lower cost), and they might actually be able to of

    • We're not making it, and, if we were, we wouldn't tell you early.

      On the other hand, Microsoft could be testing the waters to find out if there is actually demand for such a system - which is stupid, because everyone knows people will buy more of it if it's black :D

  • Vomit bags included in case the user gets dizzy from spinning.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Rycross (836649)
      Yes, it's awful that Microsoft released this new system, meaning all those other XBox owners will have to repurchase... oh wait, you can still play 360 games on your core and premium systems. Never mind.

      This is just like the DS - DS Lite upgrade.

  • Sounds like a good time to (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Broken scope (973885) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:39PM (#18431369) Homepage
    dump the core and lower the price of the premium 50 bucks.

  • Quick thoughts... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by The-Bus (138060) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:43PM (#18431439) Homepage
    Penny Arcade is somewhat spot-on with their view that the new $479 X360 is competing against the $599 PS3 [penny-arcade.com] since the $499 PS3 is becoming increasingly rare in retail locations.

    But come off it, Microsoft. You don't release this data but I put dollars to donuts that the Xbox 360 is the most faulty console release in recent memory. I've seen reports of people on their sixth console [loot-ninja.com]. My only hope is that when my current Xbox 360 breaks and I get my fourth one, they give me a working replacement, not the crap they've unloaded over the past year and a half. (That's my only qualm with the 360).
    • I really hope that they're close to their 65nm process revision, and that this helps with the defect rate. If I buy a 360, I'm going to wait until they get 65nm and hope it mitigates the reliability and noise issues.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by p0tat03 (985078)

      Except I'm still on my first console, as is every Xbox 360 owner I know. Anecdotal evidence and loudly complaining bloggers do not statistics make.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Wind_Walker (83965)
        Same here, bought it Octoberish of last year. Standing it up on its end inside an enclosed TV stand caused me some issues, but once I ditched the VCR and got the 360 horizontal and out in the open where air could circulate it's not given me a problem since.

        I often wonder if those who go through 7-8 X360s are doing something wrong, like having bad ventilation or balanced on top of something.
    • With sooo many repairs happening, there must be 1000s of people doing them.

      Where are the leaked documents/cds/roms from the repair center.

      If you work there, please copy it all before leaving, screw the NDA.

    • To be fair, in order to compete on a feature-by-feature basis with the $599 PS3 you actually need to buy the $479 360 Elite + $199 HD-DVD + $99 360-WIFI-802.11G Adapter for a total of $777. Makes the PS3 almost look like a bargain once you add the HD disc (BluRay or HD-DVD) playback and wifi that come standard with the Sony console.

  • Disssapointed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rycross (836649) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:44PM (#18431459)
    I was hoping that this would be the new Premium system at $399, and that the old Premium system would drop down to $350. Paying an extra $80 for a larger hard drive and hdmi seems kinda meh. After all, thats only $20 less expensive than the 20GB PS3. They probably should have thrown in wireless too (if only to get the Sony fanboys to shut up with the "LOL You HAVE to buy wireless you don't actually need for $100 LOL).
    • If the rumor is to be believed, you'd only pay the extra $80 if you wanted one of the initial run. You could just wait a month or so until this is the new $400 model.
      • Chances are that is what I would be doing anyway. I still don't know if I'm going to buy a 360, but if I do I'd like to wait for the process revision at the very least, and a possible price drop. $400 ($300 doesn't have the right features for me) is a bit pricey for me.

  • Is it a gimmick to sell the same product twice? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Seumas (6865) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:54PM (#18431649)
    I currently have an XBOX 360 that uses a Monster component-out to connect to my 65" Sony SXRD. It's beautiful at 1080i. My understanding is that HDMI has no performance improvement over the display of component though. Is that correct?

    I'm not an audio-visual geek necessarily, so I may be confused. However, as I understood things HDMI's real contribution is not that of performance or quality, but of increased capability for content creators to control the data being carried over the signal. Is that true? I would have no problem buying this new 360 when it comes out if HDMI is a significant improvement over component, but it seems the best information I can find is itself indifferent and says that "neither is necessarily better than the other although particular devices may present a better experience with one over the other" (see quote below).

    So, the question is - with a high end television and an Xbox 360 - which of the two is going to be preferable? It sounds to me like they're just releasing it with "HDMI" so that people will be suckered into buying the console all over again under a false believe that HDMI is going to provide them a significantly better result.

    So, which is better, DVI or component? HDMI or component? The answer--unsatisfying, perhaps, but true--is that it depends. It depends upon your source and display devices, and there's no good way, in principle, to say in advance whether the digital or the analog connection will render a better picture. You may even find, say, that your DVD player looks better through its DVI or HDMI output, while your satellite or cable box looks better through its component output, on the same display. In this case, there's no real substitute for simply plugging it in and giving it a try both ways.
    Source: DVI vs. HDMI vs. Component Video -- Which is Better? [ecoustics.com]
    • You are correct, there is no true difference between the two. One is a proprietary plug which will run you $80+ at Circuit City, and the other is open and $30. I'm sure you can figure out which one is which. The HDMI claim is speed, but if you're running from a DVD next to your plasma/LCD, it doesn't really matter. And if you're running long distances, you're paying out the nose for a long HDMI cable, but you could just use a new component video disribution system for only a few hundred more (and then see that HD DVD on all your plasmas/LCDs).

      Just save your $$ for games and be happy with component video. It passes the full 1080p, which isn't available for a majority of the stuff out there anyway! Most stuff is still hanging out in the 480 range.

      Industry magazines are now starting to pick up on the next generation of closed, propritary methods being looked into use for transmission and even the end-device. I alerted our product managers that future TVs could even contain DRMs that are by default blocking non-DRM sources. Meaning, lets say you decide to locally modulate a DVD player and a camera in your own home. The Camera is over your front door and the DVD player is in your entertainment center. Currently, you can easily do this for a couple hundred bucks, and any TV in the house can watch the DVD player on channel 125, and the camera on channel 123 ( I won't explain, unless you ask, why a channel of seperation is used). If you watch what the MPAA and other abusers of DMCA and DRM are doing, this system would not work for a TV made in the future. The locally modulated channels would lack the "broadcast flag='off" tag, and using the now-prevalant 'if it's not DRM, it's stolen' mentality, the Television would block it. So your TV would say, "Nope, you cant tell me your not stolen, so I'm assuming you are stolen" and the local modulated signal would be dropped.

      Hopefully I explained this in a way a non-TV geek would pick up. I simply took your quick, and accurate observation, and applied it to what might happen with a TV and Game Console of the future (e.g. a "GEEKBOX" running Linux might not work on the TV to play a game, unless it had the HDMI or someother DRM-approved cable).

        • My TV has a digital out for audio. So I can use the audio portion of HDMI and still send a digital signal to good speakers. Anyway, HDMI is simply easer to setup than component which in and of it's self is worth it. IMO.

          PS: It's a Sony 55 inch SXRD so not all that high end, but a good screen (1080p) for the price(2k).
      • It depends primarily on your TV. I did a lot of research before I got mine to ensure that I could do 1080p over component (Samsung LN-S4095D). The only true 1080p thing I've viewed so far has been the Virtua Tennis demo, which is noticeably sharper than all of my other games. It's a breathtaking, 21st century Pong.

        Apparently some TVs also have various issues with oversampling, which doesn't give you a per-pixel display. I have no complaints, though. I am curious to see if HDMI would look any different. The
          • The 360 might be able to support 1080p games, as it is already rendering that resolution for 1080i. The problem is that the system just isn't powerful enough to drive this resolution at a proper frame rate.

            I think you confused processing power with badwith on the componant cables. The 360 is powerful enough to display at 1080p, and even 1080p/24 over component (HD-DVD will do it since it's only 24 FPS.) but there isn't enough bandwith in the cables to handle 1080p/60 for games. This is why the HDMI cabl

  • No HD-DVD? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bym051d (980242) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:56PM (#18431669)
    Why not build it in for the elite version? Now, you not only have to worry about adding a drive on, but you have to search to get on that's the same color.

  • HDMI cable? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kmcrober (194430) on Wednesday March 21 2007, @12:56PM (#18431687)
    Does anyone know whether this means that there will be an HDMI cable released for the existing models? I've poked around the news releases, but haven't seen any mention of it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by MooseMuffin (799896)
      No there won't be. The current 360 models only can output an analog signal.
      • I have a decent TV - 40something inch DLP - hooked up via VGA, as I'd heard it was a crisper image. Is the difference between that and component (or between component and Monster component) really visible? I'm mostly interested in HDMI because I could free up an optical port on my receiver by routing audio through the TV.

        Thanks for the advice re: HDCP. I share your skepticism, but I'm willing to put up with a certain amount of DRM in this context because I don't use the 360 for anything but games and HD-

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by MikeBabcock (65886)
          Current versions of HDMI are capable of outputting more bits per pixel than component video as well as a wider range of blacks and whites (that is, more shades, and darker black and brighter white too). It is also capable of carrying the higher bandwidth audio feeds that won't work over optical (or even coax) digital audio connectors. This matters if the system in question can output 7.1 uncompressed (or higher) which wouldn't work without HDMI cables to carry the signal.

          Dolby Digital 5.1 sounds very good
          • Thanks for the advice. You're correct that I, at least, don't have the equipment for uncompressed PCM; I'm not sure I have the ears for it, either. I'm relatively insensitive to sound quality, as long as it's coming from more than one direction.

            Do you know whether the 360 upscales DVDs when outputting component video?
            • Since it has a hardware upscaler, I'd be surprised if it doesn't.

              I don't however own one ... I bought a PS3 so I could watch Blu-Ray movies with 7.1 uncompressed audio :-). I do wish the PS3 upscaled however.
          • Interesting. You've just about convinced me to try some Monster cables (I can always return them if I can't see the difference, after all), but I need to do some research and see if the 360 will upscale DVDs across a component out. I've heard conflicting things in that regard. Yes, I do have an extra HDMI port, but it's sounding as if the existing 360 models just aren't equipped for digital output. Shame.
  • Honeslty, I've been waiting for an HDMI 360 with built-in HD-DVD drive. The latter doesn't seem to be the case though; but I'd buy a second 360, the elite, if it had and keep the "old" model in my room next to the PC to test my XNA projects. I'd love to have the HD-DVD functionality in my living room, but the add-on drive, like all add-ons, is clunky and ugly.

    Without built-in HD-DVD its worthless to me.

    For about a hundred bucks I can pick up a 120gig drive and a copy of Norton Ghost, clone my data over to t
    • Seriously.
      Though I'm not about to start buying HD discs, I'd certainly netflix the hell out of them if i could get a gaming system w/ HD DVD capacity for the same price as the commercially available HD DVD players.
      I've got a Wii. I dont *need* a 360. But its hellof fun, and if it was going to pull double duty, I'd snap one up in a second.
      But I guess that would make too much sense for M$.

  • $480 is way too much (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I can spend $20 more and get a PS3 that has Blu-Ray, free online and Cell processor. This is a disaster for Microsoft, they are tripping up big time. Looks like PS3 is about to dominate.
  • What if it's an April Fools joke. The magazine comes out in April and claims that M$ is releasing a new Xbox in April. Not sure if this will happen, but if it does I imagine there will be a lot of problems for Game Informer.
    • They're likely holding back a price cut to counter Sony. They're in a good position right now, so there's not a large need to start slashing the price.

      The price of the Elite, IMO, is a mistake. It puts it too close to the PS3 20gb unit for comparison, and all you get is a new connector and some extra HD space.
    • The huge advantage Microsoft has over Sony is that they can price their systems $200 lower

      Except that they are really only charging $30 lower with this Elite model compared to the base PS3.

      And the online match play is free with the PS3.

      How was that a huge advantage again?
      • The huge advantage Microsoft has over Sony is that they can price their systems $200 lower

        Except that they are really only charging $30 lower with this Elite model compared to the base PS3.

        And the online match play is free with the PS3.

        How was that a huge advantage again?

        The advantage is they have muliple price points and the added features are modular (except the HDMI port obviously). Not everyone wants online gaming, or HD movies, or even a HDD (not particularly usefull unless you at least sign u

        • The advantage is they have muliple price points and the added features are modular (except the HDMI port obviously). Not everyone wants online gaming, or HD movies, or even a HDD (not particularly usefull unless you at least sign up for live silver).

          The HDD "Not particularly useful"? The HDD is quite useful for caching game content, or downloading new game content, or downloading demos. What is not useful is making it an optional part of the system, that was a mistake from Day 1 - in consoles you do not w
      • Aslong as each of the 6 DVDs can be bootable, and it takes weeks to progress far enough to go to
        the next dvd, its a non issue. And as long as you dont need to go backwards either.

        I also suggest a bit more aggressive modern compression in all data types and design.

        Bluray can lead to sloppy design that duplicates 1 300meg video scene 7 times for each language.

        • Aslong as each of the 6 DVDs can be bootable, and it takes weeks to progress far enough to go to the next dvd, its a non issue. And as long as you dont need to go backwards either.

          Bingo. No one cared, in the slightest, in Final Fantasy 7-9 about having to switch discs after every 15 hours of gameplay. The only game that was ever maddening because of this was Riven, in which you were required to switch between 5 CDs, one for each island (of which you could walk across in 30secs later on in the game). This wa

      • 360 users will have fun swapping out six discs all the time for that RPG.

        No, developers will have fun making procedural content. If the space combat and trading sim Elite can fit in 48 KiB [wikipedia.org], a first-person shooter can fit in 96 KiB [wikipedia.org], and Final Fantasy I through FFVI combined can fit in under 12,000 KiB, then a careful developer could fit a lot of role-playing into the 8,000,000 KiB of an Xbox 360 Game Disc.

    • Even just the ability to save game saves and such to a 2gb USB thumbdrive.

      You mean like the PS3 (which can mount external storage and then let you copy things).

      I had no idea the 360 could not do this. Between that and the Zune not mounting as external storage, it makes you wonder why Microsoft is shutting down access to external storage from devices it has control over. It would make the whole system much more useful if data transfer and backup were easier...
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