Germans Pursuing Kiddie Porn In Second Life 408
Several readers sent in links to the BBC, which has picked up news of a German investigation into child pornography in Second Life. A German TV station captured images of two avatars, an apparent adult and an apparent child, involved in sexual activity. The station also said they had infiltrated a ring trading real-world child porn in SL. SL creator Linden Labs is cooperating fully with the investigation, they write on their official blog: "Our investigations revealed the users behind these avatars to be a 54-year-old man and a 27-year-old woman. Both were immediately banned from Second Life." The German prosecutor's office hasn't responded to Linden's offer of help in identifying the real-world traders.
Thought crimes? (Score:5, Interesting)
Has anyone considered that allowing someone to 'role play' or 'express' their desires, no matter how taboo, in a virtual world, might lessen real-world activity? Any studies on this?
I mean how many people satisfy themselves with porn rather than engage in risky real life behavior?
Maybe these 'sickos' can get their satisfaction on a virtual world?
It seems like a lot of the 'oddballs' are the ones who come from a background of extreme sexual repression. A virtual outlet could eliminate that repression.
Aren't they both consenting adults? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm certainly not condoning the activity, but I have to ask...
If an adult who appears to be a child chooses to be photographed naked, that is perfectly legal. So why is an adult who looks like a kid online different?
Re:Thought crimes? (Score:5, Interesting)
Pornography in Japan really doesn't have many limits except simply the censoring of genetalia. While fringe, there is easily available and obtained media of simulated rape, public exposure & sexual activity, sexualized streaking. In the fiction world there are lots of animated and printed works that very obviously depict additional rape, child sex (consentual and non), incest, disfiguring and nonconsentual S&M and human bondage. Hell, just look through Somethingawful's articles on hentai games and you'll see japanese interactive games that let you live out fantasies of banging your younger underage sister. And another one where you literally stalk and rape victims from a train.
And yet, Japan enjoys the lowest rates of sex crimes of all 1st world countries. I'd say the ability for an individual to safely vicariously explore deeper and more sinister fictional sexual practices (as defined by society-at-large) definitely prevents a significant number of real crimes with real victims.
I don't know anyone sexually abused as a child, but I'd be willing to wager that if the abuse could have been prevented by the perp getting his jollies off with a few drawn pictures of his fantasy instead, they'd definitely go for it.
Re:Thought crimes? (Score:4, Interesting)
It can't be said whether this has any correlation to relief, or lack of, afforded by video games. It may be that grabby types don't play those games, or it may be that it encourages them. Germany, however, has traditionally employed censorship before (if ever) conducting research to substantiate it.
Re:Anyone surprised it began in Germany? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Counterstrike? (Score:1, Interesting)
W. T. F. You want to attribute laxer attitudes about rape as merely a product of having a more open mind to extra-marital sex?
Look, let's put this in perspective. The study group was given a newspaper story about a real-life rape and asked "what sentence does the rapist deserve?" In the control group (not shown any porn above and beyond what they may have watched anyway) the average was 94 months from men, 143 months from women. In the group shown porn regularly for a 6-week period the response was 50 months from men, and 78 months from women. (I may be off in the ones digits, but the 10s and 100s I'm confident on).
Are you seriously telling me that you think this is possibly a result of just being less uptight about extra-marital sex? We're talking about forcible rape here. Furthermore, the porn groups expressed less support of expanding women's rights (study was in the 70s or 80s) and exhibited other anti-women viewpoints with statistically significant margins.
The attempt to chalk this off as some kind of openness is exactly the kind of Slashdot mentality that led to my current sig.
I Disagree (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, I don't have to tell you that 99.999% of those who play Grand Theft Auto have zero interest in actually engaging in the various felonious in-game pursuits in real life.
In addition, I would assert that among those who enjoy fantasizing about rape, very few would ever have an interest actually committing a rape or being raped. Perhaps they enact their own fantasies with their partners, but I doubt many would want the real deal.
On the other hand, it is part of human nature to desire to protect the defenseless, including and especially children. This is why you see so many draconian and oftentimes blatantly unconstitutional laws being passed under the auspices of protecting kids. I doubt that there is much middle ground between those who would be interested in engaging in, and those who would be repulsed by, having sex with children.
That is why I think your use of Japanese pornographic tastes does not apply here. I'm willing to bet that the Japanese people, while they may enjoy fantasizing about rape, are not interested in going around raping each other. On the other hand, I doubt that there are many people who would be interested in only fantasizing, but not acting, on having sex with children. This is for the reason I mentioned above, the human-nature desire to protect the defenseless.
Re:Thought crimes? (Score:3, Interesting)
All that says to me is that they don't bother reporting it. I recall a news story where it is quite common for young girls on the subways to be sexually abused. So much so that some girls actually use it as blackmail on the attacker because they know they+friends will be attacked.
There is also the concept of what they consider child abuse. Again I had seen news reports from Japan of Japanese mums fluffing their sons so they can keep studying. Some cultures would see that as child abuse.
* These are not the norms.
Well, I for one actually live here, in Germany so (Score:2, Interesting)
South Germany is a rather quite place where people have rather liberal views about sex and sexuality, violence in media and games is considered unhealthy and child Pr0n is illegal.
Brothels and prostitution are perfectly legal, controlled by the same regulations that apply to all other industries. People aren't obsessed with sex, it is just treated as a normal element of human behaviour.
Nor do Germans have an interest in coprophagia as is often suggested, in fact the only two occassions I have ever heard this mentioned was by an English author (on German TV) much to the great insult of my German family and friends, who expected me to defend the fellow until I reminded them that I am of course Scottish and I course I heard it here today on slashdot.
Nor is Germany a dark rainy place full of people dressed in black clothes and clasping 1.5 litre glasses of beer (eine Mass) to their chests.
It is a nation comprising of a vast number of the various people whose parents were completely displaced during the war and relocated all over Germany.
South Germany is very tolerant society where, in general people of different races have the same access to education and employment My students are German, my family here is German, my friends are German and no, there isn't an excess of crimes against children compared to any other part of the West. When Justin Timberlake whipped off JJ's "wardrobe" during the Superbowl spectacular malfunction people were queuing up to ask me why the US was going so crazy.
Re:Confused. (Score:3, Interesting)
I say that drawing a psychological line is the wrong approach. Punish real world transgressions, not thought-crimes.
As for the little girls "sluttin' it up" in the local mall, yeah, I notice that. Makes me sick too, but I don't blame the kids. It's really the parents and the media. More the parents, because they ultimately have the greatest degree of influence on their children
Yeah, but if the parents start saying "You can't wear that!", then little Jane is just going to wear acceptable clothing overtop of her skank clothes, and then once she's outside of daddy's watchful eye, she strips down to the near-nude. Punishing the behavior you don't find acceptable is not a good way to prevent that behavior.
I've heard all the horror stories about the preacher's daughter going bonkers once she realizes she's old enough to do what she wants, and wanting to try everything dear old dad said was "evil" while she was growing up
Exactly! In our world, that's what most parents think being a good parent is - ruling your child's life with an iron fist. This usually inspires resentment and rebellion.
I know one girl whose mother will not let her do the things that she (the mom) wouldn't do. Things like going to an anime convention. All this does is make the daughter resent the mother; I'm pretty sure once she's old enough to move out, she'll be gone, and the mother will hardly ever hear a word from her daughter. That's the bed mom made, though; now she's gotta sleep in it.
Does refusing to ignore such behavior mean making it illegal? Maybe not, but I can't think of any reasonable alternatives yet.
Even if you make this sort of behavior illegal, it's not going to protect everyone. People will continue to be perverted. If you can't stop the problem entirely, then I see no point in punishing people for victimless crimes.
Some people say drugs should be illegal because they lead to crimes (theft, etc), even though taking a drug harms only the user. But the crimes they commit are already illegal; they should be punished under those laws for crimes they did commit, and not because they might loot, rape, or pillage.
Re:Anyone surprised it began in Germany? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why not a gaping gulf? It may feel like a fine line in our minds, but at least some of us have sturdier systems of thought in our head.
So, even if I don't LIKE it, I tolerate such material.
Are you sure it's a simple like-dislike? Perhaps you're attracted, but resist or reject the attraction?
The more I study art- not just the drawing of lines, but how psychological and physical features are composed to make a character that people like and such- the more I realize how the basic features of attraction to many female character types are near exactly identical to attraction to children.
From another angle, look at our vocabulary-- "Chicks," "Babes," "Cuties,"
Then back to the drawings: Smooth, with full hair, breasts and clearly fertile;
There have been many studies done on "which picture do males find more attractive?" The result was finding that males are attracted to 13 year old females.
I remember reading the comments attached; One woman said, "Men, I hope you're ashamed of yourselves!" What is interesting is that the social norm is that we are supposed to suppress this fact, and to even avoid (or even outright deny) thinking of it as a fact, because it is a shameful fact.
Look at the way anime is drawn. Slick, shiny, flat shading, big eyes, glossy, curvy, and so on. It keys right into the sexual circuitry. To deny that we are attracted to these features, is just that: denial, either conscious or otherwise, but denial none-the-less. Reject it if you must, but I think it's better (safer, for you and others,) to know the truth about yourself, and then reject it, rather than to pretend like it's not there, and reject it. There's no question in my mind which of the two is more likely to lead to bad real-life behavior.