Indecent Game Sales Now A Felony In New York

Gamespot reports on the final passing of New York senate bill A8696, legislation proposed just last week, that now makes it a serious felony to sell or rent a violent game to minors. The bill makes it illegal to sell a console without parental control options and establishes a group to second guess the ESRB's rating decisions. "'This bill is impermissibly vague,' EMA president Bo Andersen said in a statement. 'A8696 seeks to apply real-world standards of violence to the fictional and fanciful world of video games, an environment in which they have no meaning. As a result, retailers and clerks will not and cannot know with certainty which video games could send them to jail under A8696. It was depressing to hear members of the Assembly note the constitutional problems with the bill and then state that they were voting for it.'" The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children.

Wow. cigs and beee

[Broken scope]

sold to a minor don't even warrant a class E felony, and they have prove harmful effects.

Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[dctoastman]

Just ruled unconstitutional. C'mon, a "serious felony". What about movies with equivalent ratings? And books. Books have no rating systems at all. My six year old niece can go and buy any Diane Steel or Stephen King book and I would not recommend either to an immature audience.

A felony?!?

[Winckle]

I'm not a citizen of the USA, but I thought felonies were very serious crimes, like assault, or bodily harm. Not selling violent video games to children, yeah, it's probably a "bad" thing to do, but making it a felony seems a bit over the top.

Re:politicians.

[faloi]

It's funny, in a sick way, that a lot of the politicians that are quick to place restrictions on video games and music seemingly don't care a bit about violence in the entertainment industry. Like everything else, you only need to look at the money to figure out why.

Political Chicanery

[onetwentyone]

They can point out constitutional problems and still decide to vote for it knowing it can be overturned; sounds like a whole lot of political "I need something for my re-election" garbage. I imagine the exceedingly gross penalty stands for nothing more than a Get Tough (tm) on non-crimes stance.

Honestly, what is happening in this country where we've lost sight of what really matters?

Re:Just go to kid-whose-parents-dont-care's house

[drinkypoo]

I guarantee that this will not slow down kids' exposure to such games, because they'll all just congregate at ol'johnny's house to play re-bloodening 3. [...] In fact, making the games harder to get usually makes them more attractive to kids, as in "this one must be really bad, lets go to johnny's and see!"

You're forgetting another exciting factor. Johnny is usually the kid with the least parental supervision. He probably has a twisted little worldview and will get your kids into trouble.

I knew kids who had all the stuff who were and weren't like that, but anyway.

Re:politicians.

[anagama]

Or violence in real life. For that they sell yellow ribbon bumper stickers.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[Lightwarrior]

Yes, but the NY Senate is thinking of the children. That's more important than any study, or even the proven fact that the courts will knock this bill down faster than you can say "waste of taxpayer dollars."

Re:A felony?!?

[Tridus]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective. Thats why every time something new is made illegal (especially if its completely innane, like this), the sentences for breaking said law are so completely out of line as to be laughable. Just wait, pretty soon pirating a HD DVD will be right up there with rape (if its not there already).

Re:Just stop at parental controls.

[mulvane]

Nothing!! That is just the solution actually.. Leave the parenting to the parent and make parents responsible. Sadly, most parents want it the other way around anymore.
Who has time to be bothered by a troublesome kid.
Sure glad the kids at school, now I can have some peace.
Isn't there some kind of camp or afterschool activity I can send my kid to
Why don't you go play over at some one elses house

Parents don't raise their kids anymore, they expect government to do it, and government in turn wants to put THEIR religious and moral beliefs on our children, and punish the parents who disagree with THEIR views.

Re:politicians.

[flyingsquid]

Damn, with this law in place, how will I get my kicks selling violent video games to minors? You know what someone ought to do is create a video game where you earn points by distributing violent games to minors!

This is New York we're talking about

[fistfullast33l]

Knee Jerk reactions by the legislature are not new to New Yorkers. I have three words: Rockefeller Drug Laws [wikipedia.org]. At the time they were the harshest penalties in the United States for drug possession. From the article:

the penalty for selling two ounces ... or more of heroin, morphine, ... opium, cocaine, or ... marijuana .... or possessing four ounces or more of the same substances, was made the same as that for second-degree murder

So this isn't an overreaction by the New York Senate - it's standard operating procedure! Even better, the laws weren't reformed for over 20 years. Just goes to show why we're the most dysfunctional state government in the country.

Re:politicians.

[flyingsquid]

Or, God forbid we actually try implementing some reasonable restrictions on handgun ownership in this country. Because, after all, if we did, then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Re:Political Chicanery

[berashith]

I have a serious issue with someone who has sworn to uphold and protect a document knowingly commiting an act that violates it. I would love a rule/law where when a public servant has voted positively for enough ( 3 , 5 ) items that get overturned as unconstitutional that they would lose their rights to be a public servant.

Of course, since this was passed by a state law, which are reserved under the federal constitution to be allowed to do quite a bit, I am not certain which constitution we are in violation of here.

Re:Just stop at parental controls.

[PFI_Optix]

You don't know the same parents I do.

Most parents I know think they are at war with the schools because schools (an extension of the government) are trying undermine them as parents and raise the kids however they see fit. They whine and complain when the schools assign a lot of homework because "we don't have time to do anything as a family".

Of course, all they do as a family is eat fast food while watching TV before the kids lock themselves in their rooms for the evening so that Susie can show her boobs to boys on the internet while Johnny takes emo pictures and writes in his blog about how his parents hate him because they won't buy him the BMW he wants.

Re:politicians.

[Qzukk]

then we'd turn into a totalitarian dictatorship where violent crime would be even worse, just like what happened Canada.

Or Britain?

Re:Just stop at parental controls.

[mulvane]

I consider myself, as does my wife teachers as well. We don't like homework in excess, but we use school homework as family time with our kids. We sit down, help them with it, explain things they don't fully understand, and put our learned spin on things so they have multiple views to expose them to things having more than one way to be solved. Our kids eat usually home cooked meals with us. Eating out is used for days that have excess stuff (doctors appt's and or such things), and pizza on pay days (twice monthly).

Re:politicians.

[Anarke_Incarnate]

Because the law abiding citizens this imposes restrictions on.........THEY are the ones we must stop. Aside from recent issues (VT) there have been only flies among 757s where legal gun owners are the ones who commit violent crimes. Many legal gun owners actually STOP crimes. Why should that matter... Feel good legislation is where it is at, man

Re:politicians.

[drinkypoo]

Say it with me: THE US IS NOT CANADA

It might well be possible to reduce or eliminate handgun sales in the US, but it won't be possible in the same way, nor on the same timescale, as any other country.

Remember, the mindset under which this country was founded led to the right to go about armed (aka "bear arms", yo) being written into the constitution. This nation was founded on individuality, and not on doing what one is told.

Screw the children, think of the adults.

[Blackknight]

Am I the only one that's tired of having their life inconvenienced for everybody's else's children? It's not my fault you're too lazy to watch what your kids are buying/playing. Why is the New York legislature even wasting time on this?

You boys want this shut down?

[Daimando]

You know what to do. Contact the ESA, tell them about this law. Contact the judges, inform them. Contact the New York Government. Give em your criticisms. Remember, our voices speak louder.

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[denttford]

Except you can't preemptively sue to get rid of a bad law like this - someone has to be prosecuted and willing to forgo the plea offer and willing to be the object of a long long legal battle.

Agree or disagree with the reasoning, that's the way it is. [wikipedia.org]

Re:Yeah, It Won't Be Overturned

[moranar]

I don't see how this law restricts that freedom. It's an idiotic law, certainly, but people aren't stopped from creating games directly because of it. It's maybe when they try to sell their creation that they might find difficulties.

Re:politicians.

[koreaman]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate. Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth century, the Founding Fathers were obviously out of touch with what is happening (what was will happen? what would happen? I hate tenses) in the XXIst.

Re:politicians.

[drinkypoo]

Individuality? Not doing what one is told? Maybe for some elite subset of the intellectual population, but I've remarked no difference between normal Europeans and normal Americans in this regard.

I didn't say that things were precisely the same today as when the nation was founded.

But certain legacies from that time are still alive and strong today.

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate.

I take your meaning, but I also want to reiterate the point that those who forget the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them. The freedom of speech is necessary so that men can speak their minds and influence those of others. The freedom to bear arms is the only way to guarantee the freedom of speech. I could go on down the list, but the fact is that there are points at which force is the only valid response. When you get there, yes, the system has failed. But the old adage about the tree of liberty and the blood of patriots remains true.

Re:Wow. cigs and beee

[jellomizer]

It is a problem with Elected Politics. In order to keep elected you need to do "Think of the Children" Laws just so you can stay elected.
Candidate A. In my Last Term I lowered crime by 25%, added more funding for social services, The graduation to college rate is the highest in the world, and I lowered taxes by 40%.

Candidate B. I passed the law to save your kids from video game violance. I passed a law to insure that your kids will not hurt their knees when they fall, I passed a law that will make sure your kid will never talk to a homeless person again. All this for only a 10% increase in taxes.

Well yes these are exadarations. But the "Think of the Children" effect people on an emotional level while Saving Taxes, better use of funds reduction in crime is more of a Thinking type of thing. It is easier to sell emotion then thoughts.

 

Re:politicians.

[Chris Burke]

Well of course. " The senate seems to have no fear of possible overturn of the bill, and claims it's only thinking of the children."

Yeah, of course they don't fear it being overturned, which it will be on plain 1st Ammendment grounds just like every other law like it that has ever been passed. What does it being overturned cost them? Nothing, not a damn thing. They passed the happy-feel-good-think-of-the-children-but-don't-ac tually-think legislation, and it was the evil activist judges who knocked it down. Once again that pesky 1st Ammendment puts our children at risk.

If we actually looked badly upon legislators passing blatantly unconstitutional laws that they know will get overturned and waste taxpayer money, then they might possibly have some fear. But as it stands, the people they are catering to would be pleased as punch to throw out free speech if it gave them the illusion that the government is taking care of their children for them. This is nothing but upside for those politicians.

Re:politicians.

[Rycross]

I believe a bigger problem is the fact that the average American almost worships his Constitution. Rather than asking if a given law is good or bad, he asks if it follows the original intentions of the Founding Fathers, which gets in the way of any rational debate. Please remember that, living in the XVIIIth century, the Founding Fathers were obviously out of touch with what is happening (what was will happen? what would happen? I hate tenses) in the XXIst.

Man, if ever there was a post that needed to be modded up, this is it. I agree completely. The level of worship we afford to the founding fathers borders on ridiculous. Yes they were very smart men. Yes they had a lot of foresight. They were still just men, which means that they weren't perfect.

The Constitution is not the Bible. Its a living document, and it was designed as such, with explicit measures for making changes to it. Our forefathers designed it this way, because they knew that they were but men, so they couldn't predict or perfect everything in our country.

Its useful to reflect upon their wisdom, but through the lens of modern day. I don't buy that we are somehow less intelligent or wise than the founding fathers.

I know this sounds wrong...

[brkello]

but I am beginning to hate the children. They keep getting in the way of all our fun. Maybe we should have less children so we don't have to think of them so much.

Who needs proof? Easy political points!

[Drake42]

A) See wildly unconstitutional bill, supported by a zealous minority.
B) Realize that if you vote for it the zealots will vote for you and if not they'll bully you in the media.
C) Realize that the bill will be immediately overturned by the judiciary, who are not under the same vote pressure.
D) Pass the bill, reap the rewards, trust the judges to do their jobs and shut down the bill.

Lame, cheap and easy. All it costs is voter money and wasted time, but tax money is free so who cares!

This is why we call it politics instead of governance.

Fuck the Children

[Maltheus]

I got nothing against children themselves, but I am so sick and tired of politicians hiding behind, "but it's for the children," bullshit. The didn't seem to be nearly as many problems with children before we had millions of laws "for the children."

Alternatives for Kids' Free Time

[Phoenix666]

Thinking of the children...I live in New York and I'd far prefer kids and teens spending their free time indoors playing a violent video game like GTA than hanging out outside spraying graffiti, destroying property, or any of the much worse things they get into when they are bored and have time on their hands.

Sure, there are some kids who'll go pick up a DIY radio kit, code, or play basketball in their free time. But judging from the kids on my block in Brooklyn there are plenty who are not adept enough or self-motivated enough to do those things, but quite capable of doing harm if not directed or distracted.

Yaye Insane!

[Anonymous Coward]

In NY a first time DUI conviction is normally a misdemeanor. How exactly is renting a copy of Halo to a 14 year old worse than DUI?

Re:politicians.

[amRadioHed]

I'll take gang bangers blasting each other (95% of murders) over being completely monitored by government.

That is a false dichotomy.

Re:A felony?!?

[Bent Mind]

All you have to know to understand Americans these days (particularly politicians) is that they've lost all ability to view things in perspective.

Not only has the electorate, in general, lost all semblance of perspective, they've also completely lost the ability to separate fantasy from reality. They seriously believe that banning the fantasy will eliminate to reality.

Re:politicians.

[nickname225]

Do you really think that you can "contain an errant government by force"? The right to gun ownership might have made sense as bar against government overreaching in the 18th Century - but today - there is no way you or me or any 10,000 of our friends together can stand up to the government in armed rebellion. The armament gap between governments and citizens has now increased to the point where citizens might as well be unarmed, naked and crippled if they go up against government troops. The best you could hope to do is wage an annoying guerrilla war and pick off a few soldiers before they kill you. Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

Re:politicians.

[Mr. Underbridge]

No, the best thing you can do is to do your fucking job and at least slow the march of evil for a little while, rather than joining it (or laying down and taking it) for your own greed. Another term is useless if you're not helping anyway.

When you grow up you'll learn that you need to pick your battles. If this is the one end-all issue that you'll go to the wall for, then yes, you do. Otherwise, you're out on your ass before you can do anything actually useful. And for what? A bill that has a modest chance of becoming law and no chance of getting past the Supreme Court? Don't think so. This is election bait, and if you were in office, you'd have just fallen for it.

This is why the cute, ideological, naive first-term representatives are often one-termers.

Re:politicians.

[GreyPoopon]

Don't be encouraged by the success of the Iraqis. They are only doing as well as they are because of U.S. unwillingness to be seen using excessive force - not a likelihood in the case of internal rebellion.

I disagree. It's working in Iraq. It worked for YEARS in Afghanistan against the Soviets (and I'm sure they were using excessive force). It has been working in certain South American countries. I also think that the unwillingness to be perceived as using excessive force would be multiplied domestically, but that's just my opinion with no real facts to back it up. Assuming that you are correct, and that there's no way citizens could fight federal and state governments, the possession of firearms is still a deterrent to local government corruption (where it's likely more needed anyway).

Re:politicians.

[Petaris]

Perhaps, but the military is made up of citizens as well, including friends and relatives. If something like that came about here how do you know that the government would still have the entire military following its orders? Just a thought.

So who gets nailed by this?

[phorm]

The store owner, the store, or the minimum-wage employee who sells an M game to a kid who is 17 years 11 months old, and looks like he's 21.

Yeah... that's what I thought.

Re:Who needs proof? Easy political points!

[PhxBlue]

You forgot: E) Condemn "activist judges" to keep favor with the zealots.