Microsoft Acknowledges 360 Issues, Extends Warranty to 3 Years 205
RamblinLonghorn writes "Microsoft has announced that they are extending the warranty for all Xbox 360s to 3 years. This appears to be entirely retroactive and that 'those who have already paid for such repair charges can expect reimbursement checks for the amount of their console repair.' It seems as though Microsoft is accepting the blame for the hardware malfunctions, but it is worth noting that this warranty modification only applies in the 'Red Rings of Death' situation."
I'd like a 360 (Score:3, Insightful)
I'd like a 360. I really would. There are games I'd like to play (PGR3, Dead Rising, some others), as well as games coming out I'd like to play (Rock Band and many others). But I keep hearing about failures. I know people who are on at least their 3rd 360. I've seen the estimations recently putting the failure rates as high as ~30% (which, even if is off by 5x is quite high). If you combine that with the noise the things make, I'm hesitant to buy one. I keep waiting for a re-spin of the silicon (moving to a smaller process should help with the heat/noise issues).
The Elite might have got me but instead of pushing the models down, they just put the Elite on top with a new higher price point.
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What's weird is when I called a month ago for help with the game (no solutions, they were baffled), it turned out my XBOX had another
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But you are correct, they can be quite noisy and and do put out a great deal of heat. As far North as
Don't be so forgiving! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Why? You paid $300+ for it. Who cares what it cost *them*? If they sold it to you below cost, why does that entitle them to any more leniency on your part? Are they doing you a favor that way, or does the low cost mean that you owe *them* a favor?
Would you be harder on them if it only cost them $100 to make the 360?
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Game Console or PC, a DVD Drive is still a DVD drive with a different face plate.
So? You only use it to play DVDs which are (probably) manufactured by or to the specs of the manufcaturer of your console. It's not like a PC where you constantly put all kinds of burned and questionable CDs and DVDs inside. And even on a PC, I expect the DVD drive to last until I replace the PC, which is at least 3 to 4 years.
Especially since they sold me the hardware below cost
How does that matter? I look at a console and judge its value. I expect the thing to behave like a console, not like a cheap-ass PC I built from parts I found in the dumpster at
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So I bought a new package deal, swapped out all the components, and everyone is happy. It's a hard return policy to beat, and is especially handy when dealing with electronic goods (sans TV's, computers and I think cameras, where the return policy is now 90 days).
Oka
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I'm more and more impressed by CostCo every time I hear these stories.
The kiss of death (Score:2)
This is exactly what Microsoft wants to hear right now
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Red rings of death (Score:4, Informative)
(Posted anonymously to avoid karma whoring)
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Bravo Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
Companies like GameStop who sell extended warranties though might not be happy since I certainly wouldn't buy one now that MS is backing their system up for 3 years.
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Microsoft rushes to market the most poorly designed console in history.
Stonewalls on the insane failure rate for two years.
Makes 360 owners go through hell each and every time their 360 dies yet again.
Leaves people with disc scratching drives in the lurch.
And finally is forced to somewhat admit the problem and fork up a billion dollars.
Yeah, 'bravo' Microsoft...
So if you are one of the poor sods who actually bought a 360 you are still looking at your console dieing from a few weeks to few months ove
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A three year warranty in the electronics industry
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Like what? Not my cell phone. Not my GPS watch. Not my clock radio.
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My cellphone has 5 years warranty
My TV has got 5 years warranty
My PS3 has got 5 years warranty
My etc...
This does not apply for parts that are worn out because of heavy use like batteries in laptops and mobile phones (1 year warranty on batteries) or lasers in PS2s, but for anything else "supposed to last for 5 years or more" there is a 5 year warranty against production error.
In other words... Microsoft would've had to fix t
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No, it doesn't help consumers, it harms them. Here's some economics.
Sometimes, the lenght some people will go to to rationalize the fact that they're being raped by the people they voted for just astonishes me.
If Wal-Mart was so bad, it would go out of business in the city
Wow. Just... wow. If you really believe that, you're either insane or suffering from severe cognitive dissonance.
Your nanny state has taken this freedom to choose away from the individual.
Yeah. I'm not free because I don't have to worry that an accident will fuck my financials up for the rest of my life. I'm not free because I don't have to worry that I'm stuck with a broken 360 that MS won't replace. I'm... aw, forget it. Why am I e
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I bought a slim PS2 2 years ago, and making it slim means they removed many fans that would keep it cool. I still need to prop up the edges on books to let air circulate underneath, otherwise, an hour long gaming session is decorated with all sorts of fuzzy colors on screen.
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And YET they decided to go right ahead and ship a fundamentally defect piece of hardware.
How can ANYONE in ANYWAY defend that utterly despicable action.
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Supposedly the problem is that the heat isn't disipated properly, which leads to internal parts being warped (ever so slightly), which severs/loosens connections. It's time to fix the damn problem! Move to 65nm chips (which I hear produce less heat). I really want an Xbox360, but I don't have time to put up with a broken unit, even with a 3-year warranty. Fix the problem, get the defect rate down to ~5%, and I'm in!
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Microsoft NEEDED to do this? No. (Score:5, Interesting)
When the 360 first came out, someone made a decision that beyond one year it would cost the company too much to repair the consoles relative to the increased sales than would be had by having a longer warranty. They also had to take into account the bad publicity that could (and did) occur.
I'll be pure engineer here - someone at Microsoft redid the formula, given the knowledge of failures that have happened since release. This time around, the math said that enough future sales would be lost to outweigh the cost of extending the warranty. It's really that simple. It's also interesting to note here that they didn't make it a lifetime warranty (20 years or something). They probably ran that formula too, and decided that the math tips the other way if you let it last forever.
So did they NEED to do this? If by need you mean "saving face", then no. Being the retrospective hero doesn't help anything, only in the sense that it might affect future sales.
Re:Microsoft NEEDED to do this? No. (Score:5, Insightful)
The "Red Ring of Death" is likely from a design flaw, not a manufacturing error. A manufacturing error would not account for the abnormal failure rate. It is literally built into every unit that leaves the factory. The only long-term solution to a design flaw is a product recall.
Extending the warranty is just a temporary solution because Xbox 360s will continue get the "Red Ring of Death".
Next up: Fanboy retraction? (Score:2)
However, are we now going to get the much desired retraction from all the 360 fanboys who's anecdotal evidence "proved" that this problem wasn't widespread, or are we going to have to be satisfied with the usual semi-collective "I told you so"?
Microsoft is claiming this is going to cost them over a billion (1.15) dollars. If you assume that 300 mil is
A $1 BILLION DOLLAR cost? (Score:5, Insightful)
With only 11 million X-boxen shipped, that 33% failure rate is sounding like an UNDERCOUNT!
Re:A $1 BILLION DOLLAR cost? (Score:5, Informative)
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what about 4-red lights? (Score:2)
We'll have to call MS when I get home to see if that's covered.
with any luck, they'll cover it and we wont' have to shell out 150$
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The only "trick" is burning out the temperature sensors so it runs the fans faster without burning out anything else. You'd be better off just hotwiring the fans direct to the 12 volt supply so it can't attempt to moderate the fan speed.
Seriously, towel trick? You get the "I'm desperate and not too smart" award. I invented it today. Just for you.
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When MS wants $150 that I don't have to repair the thing, it's worth a shot. It did fix it the first time for about 2 weeks (the unit has been out of the 1-year warranty for about 6 months).
Especially when a friend of mine did it and his 360 has been working fine ever since... it sucks it worked for him, who could've easily afforded fixing the device.
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this is amazing! (Score:2)
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The same situation has happened quite a few times previously, and i've often thought to myself that if the company in question had done something like this at the start, rather than waiting for a whole lot of bad press and legal costs, they would have saved themselves a lo
Props for Owning Up (Score:2)
Owning Up? (Score:2)
Had they not made this press release, it would have probably adversely affected sales.
We need greenpeace on them too (Score:2)
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I can see it now... (Score:3, Funny)
WoW!!! That is a LOT of breakage... (Score:2)
What if you already paid for the MS warranty? (Score:2, Interesting)
Question (Score:3, Interesting)
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Microsoft Knew and Denied (Score:3, Informative)
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They don't appear to repair 360s. I had a DVD drive failure and I got back a new console in just a couple days. Being in MN and sending it to Texas, there is no way they even had time to look at it to see what the problem was, they just send out a new one as soon a one comes in. Although I was very happy there was so little down time, I can't help but wonder why they would shell out a new console for what is likely a $15 repair. Even with labor, costs can't be that high. In my
Re:Still, they break. (Score:5, Informative)
Give them a CC# and they'll cross ship (send your refurbed unit out right now, before they recieve your return).
Then they fix yours, and put it in the pool to be sent to someone else.
It's how RMA's work.
Re:Still, they break. (Score:4, Interesting)
good catch (Score:2)
This is the same problem you face if you buy the 120GIG hard drive(or buy an elite) and transfer your content from an old hard drive.
Re: good catch...but... (Score:2)
Correct except that last part. You will have NO DRM issues by transfering your content from a 20 gig
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For heaven's sake, my VCS 2600 still works as well as the day it came out the box. I have a Pong, an
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For heaven's sake, my VCS 2600 still works as well as the day it came out the box. I have a Pong, and it still works as well as the day it came out. And I still hook them up from time to time! There's no reason why all these 360s should die so easily, and if I want to play a little Crackdown 10 years from now, I should be able to.
Don't worry, there will be a 20%-30% chance the Xbox 720 will be Backwards compatible with it and Microsoft will replace it as often as you like for a certain period. And then it's
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For heaven's sake, my VCS 2600 still works as well as the day it came out the box. I have a Pong, and it still works as well as the day it came out. And I still hook them up from time to time! There's no reason why all these 360s should die so easily, and if I want to play a little Crackdown 10 years from now, I should be able to. Don't worry, there will be a 20%-30% chance the Xbox 720 will be Backwards compatible with it and Microsoft will replace it as often as you like for a certain period. And then it's a brick.
Actually, it's more likely that they'll get out of the console business entirely, or have fucked up backwards compatibilitity like the 360's.
I think it's somewhat unrealistic to expect hardware to last forever but 30% fail rate is ridiculous.
I don't expect it to last forever. I just expect it to last longer than a few years.
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Taking game controllers for example. I have always been impressed with Nintendo (SNES, N64 and Gamecube), Sega and even Sony controllers since I would expect a life of no more than a few hundred hours but all of th
Four choices (Score:5, Insightful)
You forgot one. There is the PS2 as well. It's a decent, fun system and you can still buy games for it. It's not to be totally ignored just yet.
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http://ps2.gamezone.com/released/released.htm [gamezone.com]
Looks like the platform is still going strong.
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Not that they don't happen, the widely quoted figures I've seen, Wii and PS3 failure rate was about 1%, compared to 30% for the 360.
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Re:Still, they break. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Still, they break. (Score:5, Insightful)
If they initially lied about the issue and worked to cover it up, then *nothing* they subsequently do can be considered "in good faith".
They tried to scam people, got caught over a massive design failure, and are now doing damage control.
Good faith would have been noticing the issue first and working to ameliorate the damage they caused.
Going into damage control mode after being caught lying is not in any way "good faith".
It's amazing the shit people will willingly lap up these days. Truly bizarre.
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Right now, you got three choices:
1. low specs, good quality, decent QA
2. high specs, defective design, lousy QA
3. high specs, decent quality, decent QA.
The choice is yours, obviously, and consumers are better informed after MS stopped denying the problem even existed, hopefully.
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A prolonged period like a year and a half? These issues existed prior to the initial launch.
the point is, that they had a issue, they have admited it, and have extended a "fix" (extended warranty) to customers to show good faith..
That is *not* showing good faith and that's not why they did it. They did it to avoid a massive class action lawsuit and bad publicity. They onl
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Re:Well... (Score:4, Insightful)
Because there was no Internet back then* for you to hear about isolated cases of hardware failure. If someone's NES burned up, he went back to Woolworth's or whatever they had back then, got a new one and complained to his buddies. Now, consoles come out and the most freakish problems (hurling your Wiimote through the TV screen, for example) gets spread worldwide.
* Yes, I know that there actually was an Internet back then, with at least 11 users.
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My original Pong still works. VCS 2600? Still works. NES, SNES, Turbografx, all still work.
Nothing to do with the Interne
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The SNES has no such problems and very well should last until now, at least.
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Here's a DIY more permanent solution [gamespy.com].
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Optical drives are defiantly a weak point. Fans are another weakness. Moving parts are always t
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Re:An Utter Train Wreck (Score:4, Informative)
Top selling hardware for may is:
DS 423,000
Wii 338,000
PSP 221,000
PS2 188,000
Xbox 155,000
PS3 82,000
GBA 80,000
Even funnier. Handhelds are more popular then the big nextgen wonders.
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That would be fine and dandy, if the market was a static, fixed, number of customers. 82,000 units in a month in todays market stinks. I agree with you that the PS3 is a marvelous piece of technology. The games look beautiful, and a few of them are probably pretty fun. It may even catch on and get back into competitiveness, but in my opinion, based on the NPD numbers and daily press stories, I wouldn't bet on it.
All
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Thats coz 50% are dead. (Score:2)
11m sold, but I bet at least 3m are dead, 5m seconds.
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Microsoft is claiming that this will cost them 1.1-1.3Billion
You can read a more in-depth analysis of the error [thoughthead.com] on my site.
Oh and it's the "3 Red Lights of Death" not the "Red Rings of Death" There is only 1 ring and only 3 of the 4 lights glow red... to correct TFA
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