Microsoft Sued Over Scratched Xbox 360 Discs 133
Xbm360 writes "Microsoft has been sued by Jorge Brouwer from the US who claims that Xbox 360s scratched his game discs, making them unusable. 'Some gamers speculate that moving the console between vertical and horizontal positions while a disc is spinning inside could cause the scratching. Microsoft warns against such actions with a sticker placed on new consoles, and Brouwer said in the lawsuit that Microsoft's customer service representatives asked him if he had tilted the console. He said he had not. The lawsuit also cites investigations of similar consumer complaints conducted by a Dutch television program, which found that one of nine consoles tested scratched a disc after five hours of play.'"
Imagery (Score:4, Funny)
Simple (Score:2, Informative)
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Be aware, the page is a visual disaster on the eyes. You have been warned.
speculate!?! (Score:1, Funny)
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According to http://news.com.com/Man+sues+Microsoft+over+allege d+Xbox+360+glitch/2100-1043_3-5982759.html?tag=nl [com.com] this Reuters Story on CNET, which no longer exists, someone is suing over the overheating.This article has a little more info.http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_sued_du e_to_case_of_Xbox_360s_overheating [wikinews.org]
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Even an extended (3 year) warranty doesn't adequately address the problem since the hardware out there after 3 years will still have reduced value due to a shorter than normal lifetime. And those getting some relief by an ext
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Disc Return? (Score:5, Insightful)
Cheers!
Re:Disc Return? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox3
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* Crackdown(TM)
* Fuzion Frenzy 2
* Gears Of War®
* Halo® 2
* Kameo(TM): Elements of Power(TM)
* Ninety Nine Nights(TM)
* Perfect Dark Zero(TM)
* Project Gotham Racing® 3
* Viva Piñata(TM)
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And you think this is a reasoanble solution?
If the disk exchange was free, maybe you would have a point.
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2. Blame angular momentum. Tilt something spinning expect gyroscopic forces to kick your ass. Who the fuck juggles their xbox while playing a game anyway?
3. if it really is the xbox, don't call to replace the game call to replace the xbox and game. You may have to go the extra mile with this including making a webcam movie with n
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Pay for their defective merchandise ??? (Score:1)
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Hell, in the days before the internet publishers would send patches out on floppy discs for free (as well they should). Getting your media replaced was as easy as sending the discs back to the publisher with a return address. A week or two later and you were back in business.
Forget optical media, if your copy is legit, the publisher should replace it at cost regardless of what kind of media it is or what's on it. DVD, CD, BD, ROM it doesn't matter. You paid f
Re:Disc Return? Screw that. Disc backups. (Score:2)
As for discs, I'd much prefer the ability to make a backup of the damned thing. But, no, no one would ever want to do that for any reason other than to pirate. No, no reason for legitimate backups at all
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Yet Nintendo still prints their "backups are not necessary nor authorized" warning in the manuals. (I imagine that the other console makers print s
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Depending on your answer, that is my reason to "pirate".
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The question is, why can't we get replacement media for free/very cheap?
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You should have the right to get a replacement disc for 5$ since the license/etc is already paid for.
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>the Data rights for 1 copy?
For most people, none of those. They pay for one copy of the game.
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Cheers!
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That was his argument about the "license" v. "media" argument... and how the MPAA/RIAA justifies their lack of a media exchange policy.
Re:Disc Return? (Score:5, Insightful)
That argument doesn't hold water to me. We're talking about two very different things.
1. You scratch a car, it is still drivable. In fact, a scratch or even a dent or ding will not stop you from using the car as intended. A scratch on a DVD, however, can render it useless.
2. A car costs a lot of money. The material cost, labor cost, transportation cost are all extremely high. The cost of actually manufacturing a DVD is so low, it's trivial. I'm not talking about R&D for game design, package art, etc. Just the disk.
3. According to the game companies, we aren't buying a disk or a game. We're buying a license to use the ip contained on the disk. And, according to the license and associated DRM, there are several things we aren't allowed to do, like make backup copies, copy to a hard drive, whatever. Since we have already paid for a license, and are thus allowed to use the IP, why should we be required to pay the same premium again just for replacement media?
4. The material of a CD/DVD is flimsy. If content companies are serious about not wanting to allow backups and not offering free or at-cost replacement for damaged media, then they should make the media sturdy enough to not get damaged easily.
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hawk
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Or in other words, with a car you're allowed to make as many c
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If the dealership welds my hood shut so I can't do maintenance (then has congress declare any attempts to cut through the welds illegal), and the car breaks down because I couldn't change the oil, you're damn right I should be able to take it back and get a new one.
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If they do, you saw it here first!!
Cheers!
Back it up (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not illegal, damnit (Score:3, Informative)
You are allowed to break encryption to make a backup. You can even get help from somebody else. Of course, that somebody else will ahve to go to jail, because helping someone else break the encryption is illegal - but being helped is not. Think of it as making abortion legal, but wording the law so that anybody who performs them for someone else, or sells the supplies and instruments necessary to do so, or provides instruction in such a procedure goes to jail. You can
Halo 2 Was Pathetic (Score:1)
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Re:Halo 2 Was Pathetic (Score:4, Funny)
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Let him off the hook for what?
Sorry, having trouble concentrating all of a sudden. One of those days, I guess...
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Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Why sue? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not first try demanding that MS replace the disc? The idea of suing over such a thing sounds kind of silly. Yeah, if they refuse to replace it, I guess you could try suing them. That certainly doesn't sound cheaper than buying a new disc. Why would you want to inflict a lawsuit on yourself? If it really pisses you off that bad, stop using the Xbox 360.
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What's funny is that you don't know what you are talking about. I really hate it when people assume that just because they haven't had a problem then nobody has. I personally have gone through 8 copies of Guitar Hero 2 which I bought a scratch warranty on after the first one went ($10 at Gamestop). Each copy has the same scratch and the system is always horizontal. I read somewh
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The main reason why I believe they are suing is due to the fact that the Xbox 360 is apparently improperly designed, thus this is not only a case about replacing the discs but providing the consumer with a properly functioning system.
If their product sucks that bad, why keep using it? Send it back and demand your money back, and use something that doesn't suck. This guy isn't going to get $5 million -- instead he's going to end up thousands of dollars in the hole. If he thinks he's going to send some ki
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"Now Stev^H^H^H^HSatan, what did I tell you about throwing chairs at the dinner guests?"
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I fully support going after Microsoft for this product defect. Just because Microsoft is big (and the consent decree is going to expire in November) does not mean Microsoft can get away with this.
So sue to have them fix the flaw and replace the systems of the affected users. Or have them refund the purchase price. Do you actually think MS designed the thing this way on purpose? Does their testing suck? Yeah, apparently. So why purchase at all from a company like that?
I have a feeling you are trolling
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Class action lawsuits are great. Blaming the victim, as you seem to want to do, is lame.
I'm not blaming anybody. This guy is getting screwed by Microsoft -- why would I blame him? But when's the last time YOU sued because you bought a crappy product? Who the fuck does that? What MOST people do is stop buying from the crappy manufacturer and move on to something else.
To me this just seems like whining. "Whaa, I bought from Microsoft and their shit sucks!" Yeah well, who didn't know that?
We're not goi
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I am very glad someone had the balls to actually bring suit against Microsoft. I am sorry you do not have the balls to do that, pclminion, were you in the same situation.
The balls? What kind of "balls" does it take to sue a corporation? What's gonna happen if you lose? Do they execute you? Sorry, but a person who files a lawsuit is not some kind of national hero. He's just one more loser who thinks all his problems can be solved by suing someone's ass off. And anyway, I'd never be in his situation, sinc
Glass Houses and What Their Denizens Should Not Do (Score:2)
Re:Glass Houses and What Their Denizens Should Not (Score:2)
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I'm glad I'm not the only one (Score:1)
What tests can be done to provie it? (Score:2)
I mean if every game he puts in scratches then ya very easy to prove and he deserves to win (however not the 5 million that's insane, get some new free discs and money to cover court costs). However if it's random or just once because maybe the DVD media was manufactured wron
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When a drive scratches a disc, it usually does so in a circular pattern. You'd see it sometimes in old CD-Roms that would open the tray when you hit the button, regardless of whether the disc had spun down or not, and the disc would still be spinning while laying on the surface of the tray.
You'd have a hard time _accidentally_ duplicat
mod me down, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Nah, mod parent up. Of course, scratched video disks are still less stupid than lost pants [iht.com].
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Holly shit is that advice *really* necessary? (Score:4, Funny)
USA, the land of the obvious... is it *really* necessary to add a warning label of "DO NOT SHAKE THE CONSOLE WHILE PLAYING"??? I wonder what happens if you move your DVD player while it is playing a movie? or what about that Blender! whoooo! lets grab and shake the fucking thing while making a tasty tomato salsa!!
Now, aside of that, I am completely on the side of the guy, if the disks gets scratched after 5 hours of normal useage, then I hope they sue the hell out of Microsoft (or Sony or any other company). Sure, they are all exigent against personal backups, but then they should be held accountable for these kinds of actions. And, the fact that Microsoft has a replacement program for
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belligerant carnivore salsa (Score:2)
>thing while making a tasty tomato salsa!!
Hey, I think the blade's stuck on that tomato!
I'll get it . . .
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Because real life and Michael Moore's documentary aren't really the same thing.
In that case, PSP is defective by design (Score:1)
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Hey, it works for portable CD players. It works for automobile CD players. It works for (spinning-disc based) iPods. It works for the hard drive in my laptop*. Why shouldn't people expect any spinning-disc drive to be well-designed enough to withstand the minor shocks of being moved around?
It seems to me that we (as a society) have become conditioned to have lower and lower expect
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Which other game console have you ever heard of scratching discs? PS2 can be positioned vertically as well, so can the PS3, ever heard of scratched discs there? I haven't. With Xbox360 forums are however full of reports thanks to its defective design. Its not a issue with having or not having a warning label, its an issue with broken hardware design, nothing else, blaming the user is simply the easy way out.
Bes
MS backlash. (Score:2, Troll)
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Slashdot also hates Sony for the various evil things they have done. The difference is while MS appears to be trying
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Sony aren't liked any more than MS by the
P.S. Afaict the only reason MS are in the console market at all is because sony were threatening to attack the PC market throu
360 DVD drive has a faulty design... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps Microsoft has absolutely no control over the issue insofar as it is entirely the fault of the drive manufacturer, so we may want to give MS a bit of slack on the issue. Still, MS has to be aware of the problem and you would think that they would insist that all drives be manufactured with bumper pads.
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360 forums are filled with complaints from customers that have had to replace some games two or three times where they have done nothing adverse to the either the console or the discs.
My GHII disc scratched when I went to add another controller to the usb port and slightly bumped the console. I tried to have it buffed out twice and it wouldn't work, so I took it back to the store. So while I haven't had a problem when it was just sitting there, I shouldn't have a problem when I just bump the box...
Yeah, I agree... (Score:3, Informative)
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They're guilty of shaving fractions of a cent here, fractions of a cent there on the BOM of the units. Those partial pennies add up when you're talking about a unit count starting at .5 million and up. They shaved it in
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~Pev
This has happened to me too - repeatedly (Score:2, Interesting)
Sony MS in this regard. amazing! (Score:4, Insightful)
I had my PS2 start leaving nasty scratch rings on game discs, making them unplayable. I called Sony customer service, and they said (in a nutshell) that if the PS2 is eating discs, they'll repair it for free (even if the machine is out of warranty) AND cut you a check for the damaged games (full retail, even years later, and even if they weren't Sony-published games!) if you send in the games with the console. This took place in Spring 2003, more than 2 years after I bought the PS2. Everything worked like they said: I had the console back in less than a week, and a check a few weeks later.
Then, this happened a SECOND time, about a year later (2004 sometime). Same response: send in the PS2 with the damaged games, free repair+check for damaged games, and it worked like a charm. Before I sent it in, I even told Sony that I just noticed whoever repaired the machine the first time had forgotten to put a new "warranty void if removed" sticker on the PS2 case, and they said it was no problem.
I just can't believe how helpful they were in repairing my out-of-warranty stuff, the second time of which didn't even have the "warranty void if removed" sticker. Just good service, minimal muss and fuss, and I didn't even have to lie to the rep to get service. Huzzah!
Re:Sony [greater than symbol] MS in this regard. (Score:2)
Sony [greater than symbol] MS in this regard. amazing!
Costs (Score:3, Funny)
They have plenty to learn to be actually successful in the console market. Its not like the PC market. People in the console market expect to be taken care of. Try getting a refund for Windows just because it caused your hardware to burst into flames.
Getting a lot of scratched disks from Blockbuster (Score:2, Insightful)
360 Not Just 4 Games (Score:2, Interesting)
Reminds me of the early days of cds (Score:2)
Needless to say it after a bunch of listens (I only had about 3 cds for several years because each cd was about $25, which in those days translates to about $50 in today's money) there were scratches on the cds right where
Anecdotes (Score:1)
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Investigated by Dutch tv program (Score:1)
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O.B. Simpsons (Score:2)
Similar situation with Nintendo (Score:3, Informative)
I had a similar situation with my copy of Wii Sports. The machine itself didn't damage the disc, but that silly flimsy cardboard holder they package it in (hello, jewel cases are how much in bulk?) took it's toll. My conversation with Nintendo customer service went something like this:
"My copy of Wii Sports is scratched, will no longer play."
"Are any of your other games scratched or not playing correctly?"
"No, only Wii Sports, scratched by the cardboard holder."
"Ok, let me pull up your My Nintendo profile
They probably spent a buck or two with UPS to ship it, and pennies to make the disc. The new copy is in an old jewel case that was lying around, and they gained one customer impressed by their service. Why Microsoft can't do the same is beyond me.