Valve Says Choice to Make DX10 Vista-Only Hurt PC Gaming 463
Erris writes "Valve's President Gabe Newell is calling Microsoft's choice to make DirectX 10 Vista-only a 'terrible mistake' that has harmed gaming. His company's latest hardware study shows the strategy has not moved gamers onto Vista. The result is that almost no one is using the newest version of DirectX, and companies are shying away from creating new input devices that support it. Nine months after release, after Christmas, after graduation, and with school mostly back in session, still only 8% of gamers are using it." Update: 08/27 21:09 GMT by Z : An AC points out that these numbers may be framed poorly given uptake numbers for XP's release.
XP unable to support dx10 or what? (Score:2, Insightful)
Don't know what the biggest reason was, but still, seems like stupid thing to do.
Forced Upgrade (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a great time to consider an alternate desktop OS.
Game developers chose this (Score:5, Insightful)
When game developers chose to standardise their efforts on Windows they bit the hook. Now they are unhappy about being on the line. Too bad.
We warned them. Now if some forward thinking company thought to maintain some cross platform efforts they are ready to seize a significant opportunity. Unreal engine? Id? Is that you?
Re:Gaming the system for fun and profit (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, I don't think it's healthy for the industry and I dread the day I break down and install Vista to get the most out of Starcraft2.
and Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:PC Gamers can smell a Rat - And it's Vista (Score:5, Insightful)
Alternatively, you can also hear the FUDsters and hysteria-inducing misleading rants about the DRM boogeyman, UAC and just about anything else in Vista. The "poor Google, they are being victimized by Microsoft" crap when Vista search is much better than GDS and all Google had to do was give the user the option to shut down the indexing service. The wailing cries by the AV snake oil vendors. And let's not forget the concerted efforts by the FSF to convince everyone that Vista is "defective by design" and directing their minions to the closest Amazon product page to astroturf and vandalize the hell out of everything. It goes on and on and on.
I sure as hell haven't seen much more than FUD coming from the groups of people who would be the most affected once Vista gains traction. I don't have a problem with people doing that so much - Microsoft is known for those types of tactic as well. The problem is that the same people doing all this are the ones that have repeatedly claimed they own the moral high ground. The ones that claim Microsoft is not "honest". FUD always works both ways. It erodes your credibility when people realize you've been feeding them soup to undercut your competitors. It happened to Microsoft, and it will happen to them as well.
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft makes DX10, Microsoft Makes Vista, and Microsoft makes money, not good feelings, not altruism, but good old MONEY off sales of Vista. Last I saw, XP was a money drain on Microsoft as they no longer sell it but must still support it.
Quit sucking off Direct3d and Microsoft (Score:4, Insightful)
These game producers are idiots.
You got what you wanted when you only support Microsoft.
They got you by the balls.
Re:Devil's advocate (Score:3, Insightful)
There's a lot of Vista hate right now. If Microsoft was smart, they'd just release DX10 for XP and hope they get Vista ironed out by SP1 and DX11 and catch the gamers on the next upgrade cycle. If they don't, they're just giving more ammunition to the "anyone but Microsoft" camp. Vista's already making distros like Ubuntu look better and better. And we only have to look back to the sweeping mass extinctions in computer history to realize that no order is permanent.
Re:Too bad Valve. (Score:3, Insightful)
That is a logical fallacy. The driver-OS interface changing does not necessitate the need for an gaming hardware API to be tied to a particular OS.
The entire purpose of DirectX is to provide an abstraction layer ontop of the drivers in the first place. It's quite true that it might mean writing two versions of DX10 but the API does not depend on the changes Vista implemented.
OpenGL (Score:5, Insightful)
Actual experiences vs. FUDdy the boogeyman (Score:3, Insightful)
As seems usual many Slashdotters seem to be overreaching, equating their fantasy lives with what's happening in the marketplace, and what most users are experiencing.
Among machines I use regularly in Seattle and in Southern California I'm now running:
Part of being a good advocate for a cause like free software is having the maturity to be intellectually honest. Your hyperventilating every time the name of Microsoft is spoken doesn't make FSF any better or any more appealing. Indeed, people whose living depends on computing may shy away from free software solutions, afraid that they might attract more of your kind to the workplace. Who would want to work with such a negative personality type?
-KF
Features are doable, a single API is not. (Score:3, Insightful)
One of the major goals for D3D 10 (and going forward) was to release OEMs from legacy baggage, a not-insignificant portion of which stems from the Win2k/XP display driver model which is simply not equipped to provide the facilities that both Vista and the graphics cards themselves need. There's also a signifigant "slimming" of the API (removal of the fixed-function pipeline, cap bits, etc.) which, BTW, is the exact same direction that OpenGL is going.
What really would be the better solution? Creating two distinct next-gen 3D APIs for the XP and Vista lineages? I'm sure the IHVs would love that. Bring the XP D3D10-alike into Vista, continuing the status-quo of legacy-burdened software? Thats very forward-thinking. Hack a version of Vista's D3D 10 onto XP but having wildly different performance characteristics and losing all the benefits that stem from the new driver model? The software devs are just itching for yet another scenario to optimize for, I'm sure.
Simply put, its possible to support most D3D10 features on XP, but it is *not* possible to create a single next gen Direct3D API that supports both Vista and XP without making severe concessions to performance and/or feature set. Sometimes you just have to cut the cord.
How about they address the cause of the problems? (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:1, Insightful)
They still sell it.
Re:Game developers chose this (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Game developers chose this (Score:2, Insightful)
Not releasing, using.
He's talking about OpenGL.
Why don't they just standardize on OpenGL... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Gaming the system for fun and profit (Score:3, Insightful)
One major difference... (Score:3, Insightful)
And yes, I know there are 'alternatives'. But Apples market is pretty specific and Linux no matter what anyone says is still quite a ways off (and yes, I use Red Hat in production and now Ubuntu on my secondary workstation at home).
And FTR after over 8 years of Linux use, most of that full-time (as in no Windows OS anywhere in my home, including my wifes desktop) Ubuntu is the best I've seen from an end user POV. But it's still Linux and it still suffers from the same technical hurdles that will be part and parcel until either Linux based systems as a whole overcome (not likely, too many different goals) or someone seriously forks their set and reworks the system from the ground up to be a USER system.
Now feel free to flame me. I know how well open discussions go over here (I won't take it personally).
Re:Actual experiences vs. FUDdy the boogeyman (Score:3, Insightful)
Lets see, you regularly use 6 machines! (Check, that's definitely average)
And one of those machines is a quad-core with a DX10 graphics card (Check, completely average)
So obviously your experience translates well for everyone. Gosh, we should all stop bitching and listen up. So apart from your moaning about those FSF boys not rolling over and spreading for Microsoft when asked, what of value do you have to say? Have you touched on the issue of the discussion - Microsoft bullshitting that they have technical reasons for holding back DX10 from XP when everyone and their mother knows that it's a decision made to drive sales of a failed operating system that nobody wants.
Ooh, that's right you forgot to mention that subject.
Re:Gaming the system for fun and profit (Score:2, Insightful)
I suspect that has a lot more to do with the developer than MS pressure, since the same is true of Total Annihilation from 10 years ago, and you'll thank them for it in a few years if my experience with TA is any guide; besides, if extra load was placed on one of the machines, would there be a computer anywhere that was powerful enough to host a 10-player game?
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Unfortunately, it hasn't been working out too well for Microsoft. Between the horrible driver support, expensive hardware requirements, and the general incompatibility issues you expect whenever upgrading to a major new OS, Vista has been mostly a bust for gamers (and even general users.) Furthermore, this doesn't even include the normal warnings about buying version 1.0 of ANYTHING for your PC - much less anything from Microsoft that hasn't had at least 2 SPs released for it, much less waiting for a major refresh, like Win95b.
Then there's the whole DX10.1 debacle, which promises to make all existing "DX10" video cards obsolete before they've even gotten proper support. Whee! Microsoft sure loves them some gamers!
Most gamers I know are putting off the upgrade to Vista for as long as possible - Microsoft's profits be darned. XP ain't broke, so why "fix" it with Vista which so far has proven to be more a step backwards than anything else?
In my opinion, Microsoft wants to KILL PC gaming - and is using Vista and DX10 to do it. Think about it. How much does Microsoft make off every sale of a non-Microsoft PC game? Exactly $0. All those copies of HalfLife2 - $0. WoW - $0. Civ, BioShock, Sims - $0, $0, and $0. Sure, they make money on the sale of Vista, but that's what, one sale per gamer until Vista's replacement comes out 4-5 years later? Meanwhile, over on Microsoft's XBox side, EVERY copy of EVERY game sold results in a paycheck of $5-10 in licensing fees. This includes not just the games you see in stores, but also the titles you can download off Xbox Live Arcade. There's also the money Microsoft makes from selling Xbox SDKs to the developers - since they have no choice BUT to buy it - unlike on the PC where Microsoft has much less control on what software is used. Furthermore, the console market is exponentially larger than the PC gaming market - and has been for years. Microsoft even makes money from online play on the console with its Xbox Live service - which is yet another area they're making exactly $0 off of PC gamers.
Re:That's nonsense (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh and the trump card is drawn! (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not hypocrisy. FUD is a completely different thing when you have a monopoly to back it.
Re:Forced Upgrade (Score:1, Insightful)