Ken Levine Defends Lair's Control Scheme

A recent Gamers with Jobs podcast (well worth listening to) features co-hosting duties performed by Ken Levine of Irrational/2K Boston, makers of the title BioShock. During the podcast, Levine comes to the defense of Factor 5's Lair , saying that the folks over there may not have had much choice in how to proceed with their game. "Let me speak in these guys' defense for a minute as a game developer. I'm sure somebody came to them at some point and said, 'We have this motion control controller, and we have to make a go of it. And we really think you should try to make your game exclusively on that.' I think you're seeing a lot of this lately. Aren't there a lot of games where you're just like, 'Dude, can I just use the d-pad or the analog stick?' Ever since the DS came out I feel that there have been a lot of games like that. They've been so impressed by their control mechanic that they just really, really want you to play with that." It's still really, really bad.

"Is there a game..."

[nweaver]

Is there a game, with the exception of Wii Sports, that you've been thrilled that there's no option to go back to a regular d-pad?

Yes. Metroid Prime III

Wrong, wrong, wrong

[PlatyPaul]

From TFA:

Is there a game, with the exception of Wii Sports, that you've been thrilled that there's no option to go back to a regular d-pad?

Yes [wikipedia.org], there [wikipedia.org] definitely [wikipedia.org] is [wikipedia.org].

Why does he think the d-pad can necessarily provide better control? The issue isn't that motion controls are by-nature loose; it's that developers are new to doing it right. Lair sucked because they did it wrong, pure and simple, and it might (or might not) have been OK if they'd worked harder at really nailing it.

d-pad

[HeronBlademaster]

I played some Mario game or other on my little brother's DS a few months ago, and I was absolutely confused by its insistence that you actually use the touch screen to work the menu. Intuitively, if a menu item is highlighted by default (and it was), using the d-pad should change which menu item is selected... but it didn't.

I absolutely hate the whole "use the [touch screen/motion sensor/whatever] just because it's there" fad. It drives me insane.

I haven't tried Metroid Prime III yet, so I can't say whether I like its control scheme or not, but the upcoming light saber duel thing has me... hesitant. I fail to see how the Wiimote could provide a good duel experience with light sabers. You'd have no feedback when you hit your opponent's light saber. Your arm would continue to swing while your on-screen avatar's saber is blocked by your opponent's, and more than likely, if you move your hands back to match what shows on-screen, it'll move your saber while you do that in a direction you don't intend.

Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong

[geeknado]

You're probably correct-- the developers are new to doing it "right". Given that that's the case, is it really good business to force them to adopt new control strategies, good or bad, before they're really ready for them? By doing so, it seems to me that a) many potentially good games will suffer for these directives and b) the merits of these control schemes in general may be unfairly called into question due to bad experiences with these games.

IMO, motion sensitive controls work best when we're capturing a motion that is at least an analog of some real activity. That's the "fun". Things tend to miss the mark the more abstract the symbols become, partly because the motions themselves may "blur" into others, causing a lack of precision(Lair, I'm looking directly at you).

What's really needed is a better balance between the motion controlled elements and the 'traditionally' controlled elements. I haven't played all of the games you've referenced in their Wii incarnations, but from what I've read, I'd suggest that these games strike such a balance and thus are relatively successful.

Re:He's probably right

[Mongoose Disciple]

When you come right down to it, a video game is still a software project, and it's subject to all of the potential for weird politics, unrealistic deadlines, and irrational demands from on high that any other software project is. I'd be totally unsurprised if one or more of the above did indeed drive the crappy control scheme. The developers probably aren't idiots and knew it wasn't good but for whatever reason couldn't do much about it.

Developer sympathy/solidarity isn't enough to make me actually play the game, but I feel for the team.

Re:d-pad

[rjung2k]

"Intuitively, if a menu item is highlighted by default (and it was), using the d-pad should change which menu item is selected..."

This is only "intuitive" after you've spent years being accustomed to using D-pad-based control schemes. For ordinary non-geek mortals, the "intuitive" response when seeing a control is to *cough* touch it.

Re:He's probably right

[Mongoose Disciple]

Or: it could be that the controls are genuinely bad or inaccessible.

Different can be good. Different is not automatically good. I can take a crap on your desk and tell you you're stupid or hate originality if you don't love it, but that doesn't make it true.

I would say that this:

You weren't good with a D-pad when Nintendo came out, you weren't good with an Analog Stick when Dual Shock came out, and you weren't good with Sixaxis when Sixaxis came out.

is probably true, but with respect to game developers, not players. It takes people time to get good at making good controls for a new interface. Lair's team probably didn't have the time and resources to do it right, and if they made the same game again now I'd be willing to bet they'd do better... but, again, it doesn't make what's there now good. Equally, condemning the controls of one game doesn't mean there's something wrong with its developers, purchasers, or aficionados.
 

Give the novel controllers a rest already

[RogueyWon]

I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion around these parts, but I feel that the emphasis on so-called "innovative" controllers in the gaming market over the last 12 months or so has been a terrible thing for games in general. Lair is a particularly bad example - what could have been a servicable, perhaps even decent game crippled by a control system that is agonising at best. I had a horrible feeling that Heavenly Sword was going to be ruined by the same crap, until I found the option to turn the motion-sensing stuff off. Now, part of this is down to just how sheer bloody awful the motion sensing functions of the Sixaxis are, but Wii games are, in many ways, just as bad. Certainly, after the first two hours of Zelda, the novelty had worn off, my elbow was getting tired and I was desperate for a sensible controller. With the exception of Resident Evil 4, I've yet to play a *proper* Wii game (as opposed to one of those all-pervading tech-demo-cum-party-game atrocities) where the controller actually added to the experience, rather than being a distraction.

Fancy controllers might be ok for games which get dragged out once every couple of months when you have friends over and nothing better to do, but for those who, like myself, like to put in a substantial amount of time every week gaming, you just can't beat either a traditional two-analogue-sticks console controller or a keyboard and mouse combo. Far more precision, far less hassle and far more engagement. Right now, the best console controller on the market is the 360 controller, hands down.

Re:He's probably right

[Pluvius]

Factor 5 itself basically admits this in their "Mastering the Beast" video. To quote one of the developers:

"We got the controller, it's great, new hardware! Everyone huddles around the desk and looks at it... So the first thing we did is just take the controller and use the tilt as a replacement for the joystick--we tilt left, we tilt right--and everyone tried it and it's like, 'This is crap. I don't want to play this.'"

But instead of just doing the logical thing of scrapping the idea of making Lair controllable only by motion sensors, they "try a little bit" and convince themselves that it doesn't really suck that bad. Watch it yourself [gametrailers.com] if you don't believe me.

Rob

Re:From someone who actually listened to the podca

[Tol Dantom]

I'm glad you call attention to this because I think it highlights the real problem with Lair which isn't that the technology sucks and they were pigeon holed, but that after the situation came down they didn't adapt and made a universally shitty user experience. From what I hear, cruising around controlling the dragon is just find if all you're doing is traveling. The real problem is their retarded play mechanics, which punish you for not juking the controller exactly the right way when a turn around button would have been stupid easy and punish you again with the terrible targeting system that goes terribly with the slow tilting controls and lack of camera control. I think a Panzer Dragoon style with this mode of moving the dragon around would have been amazing, if they gave you a stick for the camera and didn't require you to 180 by waving a dead chicken over the controller (or I guess the controller over the dead chicken in this case).

Re:"Is there a game..."

[MemoryDragon]

Super Paper Mario... they added a lot of useful functionality to the D-Pad, Zelda also works exceptionally well. Rayman Raving Rabbits basically lives from the Wiis Control scheme, just check out how poorly the game works on other platforms than the Wii. Resident Evil 4 also works better on the Wii than on any other system. Also on the DS it finally is possible to play strategy and point and click games decently, many games which use the pad as mouse replacement work exceptionally well, those which dont work are those which try weird control schemes.